I want to stop communicating with her unless she gets counselling

[so-many-lizards]

Ok... .
    So my mother exhibits many traits consistent with BPD (impulsive behaviors, discussing suicide or violence against others, rapid mood swings, intense anger, fear of abandonment, but also she is often abandoning others). She tends to make me act as her parent-friend-or-counselor.  When I'm very supportive to her, at the determent to my self, she is very kind to me. If I fail to do that, she yells at me, calls me ungrateful, a b****, a horrible daughter, etc. She guilt trips me constantly, especially if I'm late to meet up with her because I had other obligations.
     My mom often hates someone with the fire of a thousand suns. Then she vents to me, and other people if they'll hear it. As a kid I believed her, and I even hated my dad for a while. She has turned this anger towards me. As a teenager she screamed at me, called me names, threw things at me, kicked me out. Lately it's been another family member she despises (hate mail, insults, belittling), and I can't just let her be so hateful to my family member.
     I want to say that often she's not so bad.  The anger thing isn't all the time, except I guess to my dad? most the time she is still emotionally dependent though.
     I want to stop communicating with her entirely, unless she gets counseling, and we get family counselling.  I have two full time jobs, and she feels like a third. But I feel guilty, because cutting her off will drive her to be even worse. IDK, I need to vent? Or advice how to handle this?
Thanks (Sorry it's a little long, have some emojis      )

[Turkish]

Do you think it's accurate to say that "often she's not so bad?" Is this your feeling,  or hers? (her voice inside of you)?

[Kwamina]

Hi so-many-lizards

Joining Turkish in welcoming you to our online community

You mention your mother discussing suicide and violence towards others. You also explicitly mention her violence towards you, such as throwing things at you when you were a teen and verbally abusing you. That's very difficult behavior to deal with, as an adult let alone as a child.

Is suicidal ideation currently still an issue with your mother? (as far as you know of)

Lately it's been another family member she despises (hate mail, insults, belittling), and I can't just let her be so hateful to my family member.

Is this other family-member an adult? What kind of things does your mother say to your family-member?

You also mention your dad. Does your dad also believe your mother has certain issues, possibly the result of her having BPD?

Take care

The Board Parrot

[so-many-lizards]

Well, she's my mom, and the periods of acting angry/violent ideation/extreme sadness is not all the time. most of the time she is a decent mother (generous, helpful), except she has poor boundaries. Its like she has episodes.

The family member is an adult.  Mom tells her she is horrible, selfish, equates her to other genuinely terrible people, and basically all mom's problems are this family members fault.

[Hope80]

My mother is like yours. She is okay most of the time. When she loses control in a situation or her feelings are hurt too much, she gets very upset and throws a temper tantrum. During these episodes, she is verbally abusive and inconsolable. She has never thrown things at me or my father, but she has smashed china and glassware. She will make threats that she will leave or kill herself. While she does suffer from bouts of depression, these are empty threats and intended to gain or maintain sympathy. She had an episode last night. When I was younger, my first instinct was to comfort her, but I have since realized it’s better to leave her alone as long as she is not hurting herself.

I wish there were a way to get into therapy with her, but my father and I do not believe she is open to therapy. She is a self-proclaimed expert on life and will tell anyone who will listen what is wrong with other things and people. It’s always someone else’s fault, and it’s mom vs. the world.

[Harri]

Hi and welcome.

Is your mother aware of her behavior after she finishes one of her episodes as you call them?  It is hard to get someone into therapy and almost impossible if they do not see there is a problem and have blamed others for all their problems.  Here is an article we have that explains how hard this can be.  I am not trying to tell you what to do, I just want you to have realistic expectations given your mothers behaviors.  Anosognosia and Getting a "Borderline" into Therapy 

What can help is learning tools that will help you when you communicate with her.  Yes, she may benefit by your use of them but they are really for you and even your dad to use.  learning about the behaviors and what drives them can help you to emotionally detach so they are not so devastating.  Boundaries can help you to adjust your behavior when you are around her and she is acting out or dysregulating.  Detaching with love and letting them learn to self soothe goes a long way.  It takes time to learn the tools but it can be done and thing can get better for you. 

Is that something you might be interested in exploring?  It is your call obviously.  We will support you no matter what you choose.

[Hope80]

She is not aware of how bad her episodes are. My father is a retired therapist but has never treated my mother for anything. He can emotionally detach, and I am learning how. Thank you for your support.

[cedarview]

Hi,

Your post sounds very familiar to me as well. My uBPD mother has always enjoyed either creating enemies or elevating people she has a disagreement with to the level of monsters. Over the course of my life there have been any number of people she would constantly bring up, complain about, cry about, hate on at the dinner table, etc. I thought I hated all those people too!

My father and I did not think my mother would go to therapy either but she did, at least for a few weeks. In the end, she used her experiences in therapy as a weapon against my wife and I. She just lied to the therapist and hid her BPD symptoms and then got the therapist to proclaim her "normal and not crazy" so that the blame would shift back to us. I am just trying to say that, and your father might agree with his experience as a therapist, even if one gets someone to actually agree to therapy, if that person is not invested in working on their problems and if they are dishonest with the provider, they will not get much out of therapy.

You mention just yourself and your parents; are you an only child or are there other family members involved? Are you living at home with your parents when not working your two jobs?

You have my best wishes.

[Hope80]

Yes, I am an only child, never married, never had children, and still close with my parents. I have one job and live 180 miles away. I visit on weekends when I have the chance. They can take care of themselves, which is something I have to remind myself when I get the urge to help too much. Yes, you have to recognize the problem before you can fix it. My mother is not interested in therapy, and I have gently suggested that I would support her if she wanted to see a therapist. Thank you for your support.

[alphabeta]

Hi So-Many-Lizards,

Your mother reminds me of mine.  Ever since I was a kid, she has feared abandonment, gone into rages (mainly throwing things like china, the phone, and, on one occasion my bed), said that she wanted me to be her "father" (because she felt she never had one), discussed suicide, engaged in "splitting" behavior with me (saying I was an angel and then saying I was so cruel or a spoiled brat), and threatening others with physical harm (my father, my wife) or abandonment (me, my wife, my son).

Recently, she started physically assaulting people during her rages (my wife and my uncle's girlfriend), and I finally decided to go no contact.

Regarding counseling, my mother and I did go to counseling together last year to improve our relationship -- to build trust and improve communication between each other.  We saw two different therapists.  In both instances she would introduce herself as the most put-together person in the world and me as a naive and emotionally dysfunctional.  The moment I started bringing up my concerns about her behavior (towards me or my wife) she would shut me out by talking over me.  The second therapist would intervene and ask my mother to let me talk.  This would cause my mother to say that the therapist and I were ganging up on her and drove her to quit therapy.

I have recently learned about dialectical behavioral therapy, which might work better -- however, at this stage, I am not ready to go with her until I see that she is aware of her toxic behavior.

I wish you the best.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi So-Many-Lizards,

Welcome to the board! I wanted to join the others and send you greetings. 

Well, she's my mom, and the periods of acting angry/violent ideation/extreme sadness is not all the time. most of the time she is a decent mother (generous, helpful), except she has poor boundaries. Its like she has episodes.

I think it's important that you can see the times that are not so hard with your uBPDm.   Those are the times to treasure and pull good memories from. I have some good memories of my uBPDm too, and as I can, it is helpful for me to remember them. The fluctuation of someone with BPD can go from one extreme to another, quickly, in a heart beat. Then for a span of time all is seemingly well. This is very normal with a pwBPD. They find it hard to self soothe, and it can be hard to know when the up times will stay up and when they'll shift down. Do you notice any particular pattern to the episodes your mom has? I don't think I was ever too good at predicting when my uBPDm would be heading into one of her shifts.

Wools

PS Good to hear from you again alphabeta!   How are you?