Need to find a piece from this puzzle

[Notwendy]

How to move forward? Seeing the therapist is a first step. You can move forward by shifting your focus from him to you. Stay with this therapist - she seems to have some good insights . Also attend  a co dependency 12 step meeting, get a sponsor. When you begin to work on the aspects of you that keep you hooked into this drama you will be moving forward.

[babyducks]

To be specific... .it is unlikely he wants what he is threatening.  Do you see that... .? 

this is actually not what I meant.

he was telling me that he will leave me, I held on tighter then ever.

this is what I meant.   He uses these tools so that Snowglobe holds on tighter.
 

Moving forward will require many many small baby steps.    Coming to these insights... .understand how this works... .will take effort, work, each and every day.    It will be a couple steps forward and a couple steps back.   


Your therapist gave you a four point plan.    Which point looks most fruitful to you?

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=277040.0

As some one who has cptsd,  I know I found the idea of emotional flashbacks very enlightening.   have you heard of them?    have you read some of the threads on the parent or sibling board?

'ducks

[snowglobe]

this is actually not what I meant.

this is what I meant.   He uses these tools so that Snowglobe holds on tighter.
 

Moving forward will require many many small baby steps.    Coming to these insights... .understand how this works... .will take effort, work, each and every day.    It will be a couple steps forward and a couple steps back.   


Your therapist gave you a four point plan.    Which point looks most fruitful to you?

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=277040.0

As some one who has cptsd,  I know I found the idea of emotional flashbacks very enlightening.   have you heard of them?    have you read some of the threads on the parent or sibling board?

'ducks

I have not read up on cptsd much yet, I’m still in a way processing. I’m also working on staying mindful, and turning off that critical narrator in my head that keeps “illustrating, criticizing and doubting”, all the brainwashing done in my early life as well in my marriage made me unable to make and then see through the decisions. If the threat gets too high, I back off due to the fear. I am not sure if any of you have experienced it.

[Cat Familiar]

We all have our own version of baggage from our families of origin. If this isn't examined by us at some point, it causes us to react automatically in certain situations that resemble what we went through as children.

Once we're aware of our triggers, then we have choice. We then can choose how to respond to a stimulus, rather than be at the mercy of a situation and feel out of control.

That is the value of therapy. It offers us a safe place to explore these autopilot reactions and un-install them. When we have choice, we have freedom. 

[Notwendy]

I can relate to fear based reactions. When someone appears angry at me, it’s almost as if I go into a fog. It takes me a relatively long time to recover from the emotional reaction. It’s a form of PTSD from growing up with BPD Mom.

Anger, not threats was the pattern in my marriage. Through my behaviors I was reinforcing my H’s behavior. Anger got him what he liked- I’d ramp up my fixing, soothing and managing out of fear. This didn’t stop it- it increased it. It’s classic positive reinforcement. If it had been threats it would have worked the same way.

Therapy and understanding my reaction was a major step in changing my behavior. It’s well worth pursuing.

[babyducks]

If the threat gets too high, I back off due to the fear. I am not sure if any of you have experienced it.

Yes.    I have experienced it.    It's pretty common with people who have some form of CPTSD.    some people call that emotional flashbacks.  some people call them 'amygdala hijackings' where your brain panics because it perceives danger.

It's not anger or threats that trigger me.    It's criticism.    Call me a vicious name and I revert to childhood and immediately feel small, powerless, helpless and in danger.    That's no longer true.   but my brain, or my amygdala feels like it is.

[snowglobe]

Last night was a mix of horror and feeling like I was in a dream, i need your opinions on that before I make a reactive decision.
We drove out to “work” as uBPDh insisted on driving out a day early, we usually leave on Sunday afternoon, to get there in the evening so he has a chance to rest up and go to work the next day. As soon as he mentioned he needs to leave early I got suspicious. He justified that he has a lot of work and wants to start cracking. As we left he made a stop at the liquor store, shock further solidified my suspicions. He got alcohol and we continued the journey. He made another stop, saying he needs to see someone. He didn’t need to tell me what he was doing, I already knew. The entire trip “to work” he was talkative and listen to music videos. We got to the condo and he immediately started abusing cocaine and demanding my attention. Do this, do that, take off the clothes, let’s go on winter vacation with kids in no particular order. He knows I want the kids to go on Christmas break, this is his buying himself a sexual fantasy through offering me the tangibles. It all went as it usually does- sexual fantasies and perversions, I felt like I was working on “bunny range”, I truly dread these times.  Somewhere in between he started talking, what he said sent the chills down my spine. I need to try and replicate while it’s only hours fresh in my memory.
Him “Sometime I have these thoughts in my head, I hate them, they frighten me”
Me “what kinds of thoughts?”
Him “like when I see an exposed neck, I think about putting my hands on it and squeezing”
Me “when do you have these thoughts?”
Him “when you are sleeping, once when s11 was sleeping with us”
Me “how many times did you have these thoughts and when did they start?”
Him “about 5 times, I hate it, I would never hurt my family, I’m very peaceful person, why did they even pop into my head? I feel disgusting and awe full, I would rather die then do anything so atrocious”
Me “when did it start?”
Him” about 6 months ago ... .(later changed) maybe 3 moths ago”
Me: “how do these thoughts come to you”
Him: “it’s a second fleeting thought, I hate it and get scared of myself, I love you and the children, is this normal”
Me :” anyone can experience a disturbing thought”
Him :”I felt so bad that I even thought it in the first place, that when they repeated it was magnified”
Me ”we need to understand what triggers you”
Him: “ I feel awe full I had it in the first place”
What do I do? Am I and kids in danger? Is he turning into schizophrenic? This doesn’t sound like a psychopath since there is so much remorse, what is it? The idea that while I’m sleeping next to him he things of chocking me, is pretty bad not to go to sleep.
Need to speak to therapist about it. I know that disturbing thoughts are a sign of stress, but can he act on it? What would take someone to cross it?
I am repeating mantra “I’m not crazy, I’m not crazy”, but this, in my mind, justifies why I’m afraid to leave him.

[Notwendy]

I don’t know if he means what he says or if he intends to cause you serious harm. He says and does some disturbing things.

I know I and others have advised you to take the focus off him and on to you. He abuses drugs and alcohol, uses you to fulfill his fantasies and uses money/material things to threaten or control you. None of this is likely to change on his part. If anything is going to change it is up to you changing your part.

Yes you want the vacation for the kids but if you decide to be his sex toy to get it- then why wouldn’t he use this to control you ?  He’s getting what he wants.

If you think you are really in danger then take action to protect yourself.

IMHO leaving him would be a big step and nobody is asking you to do that. Many of us are saying baby steps - go to a meeting - continue with therapy. Please focus on you and what you are doing for you. What can you do this week to make some changes for the better for you?

[Cat Familiar]

You feel threatened by staying with him and you feel in danger should you leave the relationship.

He's doing cocaine, so in addition to his mental illness, his emotional instability is increasing.

On the one hand, you would like to pretend that this is a normal relationship and you appease him with hopes that it will buy the kids a holiday vacation.

You're still not finished with your education, so if you were to leave, your financial security would suffer.

If you didn't need to plan for your son's special education or your daughter's athletic training and your education was completed with a degree that could yield a good income, what would you do about your relationship?

[Notwendy]

Cat asked an important question.

I'd like to add: considering your current situation, what things can you do for you- to help you grow emotionally in this situation? The therapy is a great one. Other ones are:

Attend your 12 step group.
Get a sponsor.
Order the Patricia Evans book Controlling People and read it ( her other books are good too).
Learn to manage your fear reactions. This doesn't mean ignoring if you are truly in danger. If he makes a harmful threat, call 911. If it is a threat that may feel hurtful- like "I will find an 18 year old" learn ways to manage your feelings in the moment. He probably isn't able to run out of the door and find an 18 year old immediately. You do not have to react to this kind of threat. You can work with your therapist on this.

Shift your focus from him to you- at least as often as you can. Decide what is his issue to manage and what is yours. Yours is your fears. He continuously stirs up a crisis- his drugs, his moods. Those are his business. Resist the urge to step in and fix, soothe him, even if only for a moment and focus on soothing yourself- listen to music, take a walk, make a cup of tea. Take mini breaks- "what am I feeling".

Post what you feel you need to, but also post some of these "check ins" - write about you.

[Cat Familiar]

I'm gonna talk about this "finding an 18 year old" business.

You were ten years younger when he got together with you, but he was still a youngish man of 28.

Now he's a middle aged man, old enough to be the father of an 18 year old. Most 18 year old girls would think of him as an old man. Sure they might enjoy some of the things his money could buy, but likely they'd be making fun of him behind his back and laughing about him to their girlfriends.

He's been doing cocaine and alcohol for quite some time. Due to those habits, chances are, his sexuality isn't as well-functioning as the young men these 18 year old girls would have been experiencing. So that would be another avenue where they could ridicule him.

Certainly it's possible he could find an 18 year old, but it's more likely that they'd think of him as a creepy old guy.

Keep that in mind when he makes those threats.

[Notwendy]

Yup- another way of looking at this threat is that we take our dysfunction with us into relationships. It affects all relationships unless we do some personal work to understand this and change it. He isn't doing that.

I used to fear my H would be with someone and she'd only get his good side- he'd be nicer to her than he was with me. Then, when I learned about relationships I realized that, if he did leave me for someone else- they would get the good side, but eventually they would recreate the same dynamics he had with me--- and I would likely do that too if I was with someone else. I didn't have plans to do that, but it was an incentive to work on myself no matter what happened with the marriage. I didn't fear it then- it wasn't something I wanted but I did not fear he'd be better off with someone else.

If you read Patricia Evan's book, you would see that you are your H's "Teddy" which is his soothing object. You are good when you sooth him and not when you don't or he is upset. He projects on to Teddy- Teddy can not be their own separate individual.

If he did run off with that "18" year old, it would likely then be that she'd become the Teddy. He'd be as unhappy when he was with her as he claims to be with you because he is the source of his own unhappiness and he projects it on others.

Don't fear the threat of the 18 year old. He may imagine it would be better with someone else, but it would not be.

[AskingWhy]

My response to the OP:  it think pwBPD or pwNPD really hate themselves down inside, and it really infuriates them (hence the rage) that anyone else can feel happy with themselves or feel any happiness at all.

That I why I think many pwBPD/NPD tend to want to dampen the festivities for others.  Sometimes is also means that the attention may be on someone else and not then, and that causes them to be jealous.

[snowglobe]

Thank you all for the insights and the suggestions, I’ve ordered the book, waiting for it to come in while we are away, my mom will sign for it. I’ve always lived with a thought that if I don’t participate in his sexual fantasies, he will replicate it with someone else, so I went along. I think Cat, mentioned in her post regarding the libido demise and his age, this is very true. Even comparing to couple of years ago his sex drive went down, yet perversions increased, it’s harder to get excited. I do notice a frequent amigdula highjacking, he knows most of my triggers, even the ones I am not aware of. UBPDh scared me pretty bad by sharing those thoughts, describing watching me sleep, contemplating what kind of motives he had for imagining to put his hands on my neck. I don’t think he is actually going to choke me, he wouldn’t share it if he seriously thought of it, yet it’s enough to send someone into a frenzy.
My short term plan to facilitate my personal development:
1.read the book
2. Attend regular sessions with the therapist
3. Keep a journal to identify my own triggers

[GaGrl]

You have mentioned several times his partying with friends, with the possibilities of infidelity.

As his sexual threats increase, you might want to have an STD profile done at your ob/gyn.

[Notwendy]

1.read the book
2. Attend regular sessions with the therapist
3. Keep a journal to identify my own triggers


Great start!

An acronym for FEAR is: false evidence appearing real.

Our fear reactions are important- they keep us safe. When in fear, we feel the same emotions that would make our ancestors run from a hungry lion but most of the time we are not in that kind of danger.  Many of our triggers stem from childhood. As children, the adults in our lives are potentially scary. As a child, I needed my parents for survival, so BPDMom's anger was terrifying to me. She was also larger than I was. That was scary.

As an adult, I am a few inches taller than she is, can run faster, and physically, she is not able to harm me. Yet, my fear of anger causes the same reaction as if my survival is threatened, but actually it is not.

When I am fear triggered, but actually not in danger, it feels emotionally as if I was.  When this happens, I can take a few minutes to think it out.

For your trigger journal, the first step is to recognize you are feeling triggered and to realize it is your feeling. Something someone said or did may have caused the feeling- but they didn't trigger you- the trigger is yours. Own it- because if you do see it as a part of you, it is then something you can change. People will always say things - with or without intent to trigger you,  but if you own the trigger, you can also own your reaction.

Don't see feeling triggered as a negative thing. Each time you are feeling triggered is an opportunity to practice the skill of self soothing and managing your feeling and you will get better at it.

Don't ruminate over what could possibly happen when you are threatened. Your goal is to manage the feelings in the moment. Stay in the moment. You feel fear: is a lion chasing you right now? Yes? then run! No, then you can calm down. The threat he will leave and choose someone else: is he doing it right now? No, then you are not in immediate danger - take a few moments to calm down.

It is great that you are working on these triggers with your therapist. In your journal- write the trigger, then the feelings, then the reality- are you in immediate danger now? If no, then practice calming yourself.