Not sure what to do

[Bhs]

I'm new to this site and looking for advice. I met my SO 4 years ago.  Good start to the relationship - timing was appropriate.  I was 48 he was 52.  Both of us had been divorced about 10 years and had other significant relationships in the interim. He seemed to have reflected on past relationships and was clear in stating that he wanted a committed relationship in his future.  Things went smoothly until I got sick one weekend about 3 months into the relationship.  We had gone away for a weekend and had a serious talk about intimacy.  I relayed that I was very hurt from my divorce - and it took a lot for me to be close to someone but I was starting to feel I could really trust him and was very grateful to have him in my life.  I had a relapse of an autoimmune disease after that weekend.  I asked him to come over and hang out with me and he withdrew and said he was busy.  Prior to that he would text/call frequently throughout the day.  I told him I was hurt and would talk to him after I saw my doctor.  He contacted me a couple of days later and said he felt as if someone kicked him in the stomach.  He was upset at how he reacted and felt awful.  We saw each other about two weeks later.  I told him I was on the list to get a new treatment that would require me to get infusions of a medication about one week a month (had to be in the hospital every day for about 8 hours to receive).  We discussed the fact that he hurt me and he seemed very apologetic and told me that intimacy was difficult for him too and sometimes he held back on being affectionate/loving and later regretted it.

Things continued on but over the next few months he would withdraw and then come back citing work stress.  Two weeks after he told me he felt "lost without me" he broke up with via text right after Christmas and a week before I started my treatment.  He was on a dating website three weeks later after telling me he had doubts about being in any kind of relationship.  The breakup lasted 4 months.  When we got back together he seemed remorseful.  He was moving quicker than I felt appropriate after all that happened - he wanted me to meet his family but he was reluctant to talk about what kind of commitment he wanted. About 9 months later he wanted me to attend a family function and I said I felt uncomfortable as he seemed to treat me like a very committed partner n some ways but not others.  I was also uncomfortable that after telling me that his ex wife (who was remarried) texted him too frequently and complaining about this he failed to put any boundaries in place. I felt that my role in his life was vague and not recognized.  I brought this up to discuss and he broke up with me via email.  He sent a huge bouquet of flowers the next week and then after telling me he loved me he began ignoring me and refusing to see me.  We had a fight and he ended up blocking me on his phone and wouldn't talk at all.  Another 2 months went by - we talked and I said I accepted this was over.  He showed up two weeks later with a ring and said he wanted a committed relationship and blamed his behavior on his issues around intimacy. I accepted his explanation and we began a committed relationship.


Fast forward 12 months later.  I was getting treatment again for my disease - this time a nurse was coming to my home.  His ex-wife's mother in law was diagnosed with cancer.  My brother (53 and only living family member) was also staying with me as he had been diagnosed with cancer and was getting treatment at teaching hospital in the city I live in. SO called one night talking about ex-wife's mother - I told him I didn't have the bandwidth to listen because I was sick, supporting my brother who was talking about his cancer and getting radiation and chemo and in the 4th month of my treatment (6 months in total).  Instead of being supportive he accused me of being jealous of his ex-wife and trying to make "his" night about me.  I was stunned.  I told him I would talk to him when I got back from a business trip.  I called him two days later - he said he would not edit himself or any of his relationships.  We didn't talk for several weeks.  I was crushed and it was a very bad time for me.


He reached again and said he had been thinking and realized he hadn't made me feel emotionally safe.  His mother had also been diagnosed with cancer and he was reeling from the news.  He asked me if we could work on things and consider counseling once things resolved with his mother - who we both knew was terminal.  I agreed but said that if I went down this road he had to promise me that he wouldn't break up with me in the process.  I loved his mother and didn't want to get more involved only to be dismissed at the end.  Things were okay considering all else.  For 3 months we spent nearly every weekend with his mother.  The night before she died he got very angry at me and left me in the airport as we were traveling to say goodbye to his mother.  He told me he was through and I couldn't attend the funeral.  I was pretty traumatized.  This all happened because his ex was texting and calling all the time - my SO said it was because of the kids (although they were 25 and 27).  I reminded him that I was his partner now and I wanted to share this with him.  I didn't take issue with the ex communicating with him but I didn't want to spend our time discussing what they were discussing.  He again accused me of being jealous and broke up with and left me in the airport.


I called him repeatedly that night - he blocked me.  I know I was very hurt and can't even remember was I said on his voicemail but I'm sure my words were angry and/or stunned.  I felt betrayed and I knew I would not get to say goodbye to his mother whom I cared about. He played my voicemails to his family - and called to tell me he did this and said they all hated me.  I was stunned and hurt.


I tried to move on. I stopped all contact with him but never "blocked" him.  Every three weeks he would reach out again - sometimes to be mean - sometimes expressing remorse.  This went on for 7 months.  He finally showed up at my house and said he was on antidepressants and felt better.  He said he was tormented by what he did and he recognized he never nurtured our relationship.  He wanted to spend time together and go to therapy - either to bring things to a better ending or see if we could rebuild.  I agreed with this plan.  The next two months was more of the same.  He wouldn't see me on weekends - stating he wanted to say home and watch football alone.  He would insist I could never forgive him and stop talking to him.  Finally he blew up about a comment I made that he felt was "snarky".  He told me he changed his mind and refused to go to therapy. He told me he didn't think he "loved me enough".  All he said when I asked why he opened this door again was - I made a mistake. I left his house and gave him a choice - therapy or this had to end.  He texted me two weeks later - he didn't want anything further and he blocked me on his phone and email.

I'm stunned.  I don't know if this is BP traits or characteristics - the antidepressant he is on or what is going on.  As I look back I see a clear pattern.  I feel more betrayed than ever.  His psychiatrist is his neighbor and while he says it is therapy - it sounds like he sees her every 2 weeks for 20 minutes - basically a med check. I can't imagine why he would come back again and specifically say he wanted therapy only to hurt me further.  I'm not sure what to do.  I feel he has gone off a ledge. Everything he did made this worse for me.  I would have thought that 7 months apart was enough for him to understand how he felt.  I go over everything I did/said trying to figure out how I contributed.  Where do I go from here?  Do these sound like BPD traits?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

hi Bhs, and

im glad that you decided to reach out to us. i hope that youll stick around and make yourself at home as part of the family throughout your journey, in whichever direction that it goes.

As I look back I see a clear pattern.

make up/break up cycles take a real toll on a relationship over time. 1 or 2, for any given reason, is pretty normal (somewhere around 60% of relationships do this). with several of them, trust tends to lessen more and more each time, and resentment grows. without significant change, the pattern is usually going to stay the same, or get worse. that change usually must begin with us. the tools taught here, and a good sounding board, can help you do that, if its what you want to do. trust will be hard to (re)build between the two of you, i think. it sounds as though its been missing, and one or both of you act out of hurt or distrust, communication has broken down.

the two of you are currently broken up, do i have that right? how long ago did you last hear from him? do you want to get back together?

[Bhs]

I haven't heard from him in two weeks except for a text a week ago that said he didn't want to go any further.  I'm not sure what I want to do but this doesn't feel right.

I think we are both reactive people but over the years I was able to develop the skills to walk away - give him a few days to think about things.  That has never helped because he doesn't seem to be able to realize his feelings are escalating. He's aware he is impulsive and stubborn but I feel it goes beyond that.  Before he left me in the airport I suggested going to counseling to work on improving our communication skills. While he agreed (when we were together) whenever I push the issue he cuts me off completely. 

I'm 51 and I've never had any relationship where a man routinely blocks and unblocks me.  When he came back after 7 months the idea was to spend some good time together and seek counseling in a couple of months when we had more time (we both have busy careers with the most work coming at the end of the year).  Before he showed up at my house he called three times begging to go to counseling.  When I finally agreed he seemed to do everything he could to punish me and push me away.  It feels "crazy".

I tried to share with him the books I read on forgiveness, managing conflict and other issues.  I tried working with him to come up with a plan/strategy we could follow if he felt overwhelmed.  I've let him know it was fine to say - I need a day or a week. He agrees in the moment and then for no reason I can identify he becomes angry, hopeless, insists I could never forgive him and then cuts off all contact. I've told him numerous times that I am willing to take accountability for what I bring to the mix but I don't know what that is because rather than talk to me he "quits" the relationship and blocks all communication.  When he returns he wants it all to go away.

I feel I could forgive him because I love him and these behaviors are not the totality of who he is.  I can't imagine why he came back after 7 months telling me I was his soulmate and asking for a chance only to seem angry at me when I gave him that chance and expected him to follow the course we agreed upon.

I went through a lot of therapy after my divorce.  In some ways I can separate some of the behaviors from the person easier than most.  My friends say that's not wise with him - that I've given him too many chances.  He agreed after the 7 months not to make unilateral decisions about the course of the relationship - he acknowledged that we needed to talk things through. He constantly says he is a bad person and he doesn't believe I could ever love him.  It's as if he won't believe me when I say  - I'm able to see the whole you - here's what I've learned about forgiveness, etc.  Of course I get very angry and frustrated at times and I have said some things that are hurtful too.  But I try and own it and I'm open to trying to improve. While he seems to think I can't forgive him - I feel that he can't forgive me.  I don't even know what I've done to him to cause his trust issues with me - except expect that he not be the center of the universe at all times.  I don't understand how asking him not to talk about his ex mother in-law's cancer for one evening is worthy of his response?  It's as if he has very little empathy for me in the moment.  This is something that many of my closet friends have said about him - he lacks empathy for me.

He's said horrible things about me to his friends and family and yet although I keep telling him - forgiveness is possible but we need help... .any little thing I say seems unforgiveable by him.  Not sure if this makes sense.  I'm trying to get things on track to go to counseling if for nothing else than to come to a place where I don't feel so betrayed and he doesn't feel so tormented by what he's done.  Or maybe all of this was just a good story and he came back to hook up for a while - alleviate his guilt - and do it all over again.  I hate to think that about him but how can I think otherwise when he does the same things over and over again?

[once removed]

I think we are both reactive people but over the years I was able to develop the skills to walk away

its good that you can see this. keep building your skills. thats one thing that this place helps me to do consistently.

While he agreed (when we were together) whenever I push the issue he cuts me off completely. 

from what im reading, it sounds as though you dont have a willing partner in this, it sounds like he rejects the idea, or by and large any sort of mental health approach like books to clean up his side of the street or improve the dynamics pretty consistently. thats certainly something thats important to take into account and is unfortunately not uncommon, though there is always the possibility that it may change, and you might be surprised by how sometimes, when we take the initiative, improve things on our end, see a therapist ourselves, that sort of thing, not only do things get easier, but sometimes our partners follow our lead.

I'm 51 and I've never had any relationship where a man routinely blocks and unblocks me. 

its certainly an immature coping mechanism... .people with BPD traits struggle to communicate their needs, and tend to do so with acting out behaviors. theres obviously unfinished business for him regarding this relationship, but he cant seem to get it together and be consistent one way or another.

I don't even know what I've done to him to cause his trust issues with me

people with BPD traits are inherently distrustful of others; take the fear of abandonment for example... .its greatest when a person feels they have the most to lose. along with that, low self esteem does often run hand in hand, so efforts to love them out of that, so to speak, coupled with these deep seated fears, may even cause our loved ones to doubt or question our sincerity. thats not to say that trust cant be built over time, it can, but even in the best case scenarios, there may be acting out behaviors that "test" it.

how did you respond to the text a week ago, or did you?

[Bhs]

I texted him back and said I accept his decision but it made me doubt that he wasn't sincere when he came to me a few months ago asking to "shift" the energy and go to counseling.  He blocked me after that.

That made me furious. Two days prior to receiving his text I sent him a very heartfelt voice message.  In it I said that I was sorry if I said something that seemed "snarky" to him.  I told him I loved him and reassured him that I didn't see therapy as  a tool to "blame" him - rather I wanted to be united in solving our communication issues.  Honestly - I don't even feel it's "our" communication issue as much as his hypersensitivity and callousness but I didn't want to say that directly and alienate him.
I told him I wanted to understand what he needed to feel safe and that we both needed to feel safe.  I told him that if he couldn't go forward I didn't want a big conversation but I hoped we could communicate before that.  I told him that the most hurtful thing for me was when he blocked me and didn't communicate and cut me off.  He never called or even acknowledged what I said.  He sent the text - don't want to go further and after I replied he blocked me.


I sent him an email (an angry one) saying that I was extremely hurt that he reopened a wound in me and that I felt he had done nothing to fulfill the promises he made. I told him it took a lot for me to be vulnerable enough to give him the chance.  I told him I felt like writing his Psychiatrist a letter letting her know all the things he said to me. I vented a lot.  I reminded him that I went to see a counselor in the interim to explore what I had added to the problems and  read and worked on my issues - although he had not been able to articulate one thing he learned about himself in those 7 months.  I told him I felt betrayed again.  I reminded him that he had acknowledged in the past that he lied to his friends when he would dump me by telling them I had done this to him - making himself look like a victim.  I told him that part of me wanted to set the record straight because I was furious that he created a narrative to his friends/family that I was some kind of selfish, uncaring person while acknowledging to me that was not truthful.  I told him I thought he was not genuine and I was extremely disappointed.

I heard nothing.  He has since blocked my email. I feel like he wants to leave things on a bad note because that gives him an excuse to come around again.  I felt physically ill realizing he had no intent of following through on what he said.  I feel used and manipulated.  I also feel like he must be  hurting a lot and I feel like he can't pull out of it.  I don't want to hate him but I can't find a way to understand what kind of person does this.  I went to see a counselor in the 7 months.  She told me to let it all go and mentioned that BPD could be a possibility.  That's what brought me here. 

[once removed]

I texted him back and said I accept his decision but it made me doubt that he wasn't sincere when he came to me a few months ago asking to "shift" the energy and go to counseling.  He blocked me after that.

it sounds like you called bluff, and he said "ill show you".

I heard nothing.  He has since blocked my email. I feel like he wants to leave things on a bad note because that gives him an excuse to come around again. 

theres a lot of hurt and resentment youre understandably feeling.

this can happen in a breakup, when one party feels totally invalidated. they just want to be heard. unfortunately, the other party usually is not in a place to do that, which hurts all the more. sometimes we say it louder, and it pushes them away, and they withdraw.

i suspect thats whats going on. hes erecting some high walls. partially to get space, and partially to "show you"/retaliate.

that can be reversed, but its going to require a lot of space. what often happens is that a person who erects those walls will, eventually, poke their head out so to speak, and test the waters. often times, in our hurt, we over play our hand, and they pull their head back in, and maybe erect higher walls. so i suspect that its relatively likely (not certain, but likely) that if you give him space, he will do just that. the next step is not to overplay your hand, and frankly, if he unblocks you, i wouldnt react in any way. does that make sense?

[Bhs]

Wow.  It's so helpful to hear these words. Yes, I frequently feel that he has an "I'll show you attitude", then he feels so much guilt and shame after he "cycles out" that he can't deal with it.  So if he reaches out what do you suggest?  I'm not sure we belong together but I am sure that this can end in a better place for both of us.  I also think we love each other deeply and thinking of his behavior as an illness helps me not take it so personally. But I have doubt about that too... .

As background, my mother had BPD.  I figured this out while I was parenting my own child.  I read a lot on attachment theory when my son was young (Becoming Attached was my baby book rather than "what to expect when expecting"). I wanted him to have a different emotional experience than I had.  I believe I succeeded.  He has a very healthy relationship with a wonderful young girl.

After my mom died I spoke to her Psychiatrist and he confirmed my suspicions that she had BPD.  She, however, was not "high functioning" and my SO definitely is.  I'm sure there were things in him and this relationship that felt familiar and it took me quite some time to realize that his issues were greater than simple intimacy issues.  When the therapist I saw in the 7 months after he left me in the airport suggested BPD - a lot of things came together for me.  I see him as having pronounced traits... .my mother was completely chaotic. I had an unhappy childhood emotionally. Yet, I always had great teachers and parents of friends so I made it through.  My parents refused to pay for my college and miraculously I was awarded a full scholarship.  I was able to leave when I was 17 and I never returned.

After my divorce I went to therapy 2x a week for nearly 5 years. It was a tough process but a very good one.  I don't want to think I'm repeating a negative time in my life to get some resolution that I didn't get with my mother.  But I consider that as a possibility.  Sometimes I feel ashamed of that and I feel ashamed of the compassion I feel for my SO.  It's a fine line between understanding that his behavior comes from a place of hurt and being aware that I may be repeating a defeatist cycle in my own life. How do I answer that for myself?

My SO adds many things to my life and dealing with him has humanized some of the issues I saw in my mother.  This is the first time in a decade I felt compassion and tenderness for my mother (although she died 14 years ago).  My friends tell me I am too compassionate and I take too much responsibility, but I see the injured part in him and I understand that to a certain degree because before I went to therapy I felt a lot of that too.  He just doesn't seem to be in touch with it - I was the opposite.  I knew something was off in how I felt and how I had been raised and I wanted to do whatever I could do change my life and not raise a child the way I was raised.

How do you know when enough is enough?  I don't feel that yet with him.  I feel that I have a deep love for him but I struggle with thinking that is related to a weakness I may have... .I fear I'm replaying something to get closure that may not be related to him.  I can't figure that out in myself. I don't want to be with someone I can't forgive but I also feel that if he moved a bit more towards the center this could be a very healing experience for both of us.  Any further words of advice would be appreciated.
 

[LoveOnTheRocks]

Hi Bhs:  I am rather blunt and direct, and most of all, defensive FOR people who are being jerked around, and I feel after reading your posts, that you are being jerked around, and I'm upset about it, for you.  First, (correct me if I'm wrong), I think you have shared that you have cancer (?)  I know enough about how emotional stress and other patterns of negativity play a role in our health, so the first thing I'd like to ask you is if it is even worth it to compromise your recovery on someone who is so complicated and immature?  I know how old he is, but do people his age routinely use "blocking" because they are so incapable of communication?

Then, leaving you stranded at an airport?  Man, that's just too much.  It seems his emotions run so high and so strong that they are ruling his life and decision making processes.  So, anytime he loses control of himself, you are subject to be left high and dry wherever you are... .that's not very comforting.

I am wondering how long you two have dated total, and of that time, how long it's been "held together" where you two considered yourselves together?  (ie:  We've dated off and on 4 years, and the longest we've stayed together is 4 months at a time.)

Speaking for myself only, I value peace and peace of mind, and when speaking in a romantic sense, anyone who takes either of these from me is likely to become less interesting to me sooner than later.  I am married now, 16 years, and my husband and I disagree sometimes, but we literally almost never have outright blowups.  We do argue sometimes, and those are almost always extremely short lived, with us walking away before anyone gets too upset or things you can't take back are said.  My daughter bas BPD, and her biological father, who is my ex, had BPD.  That relationship was almost always volatile and it ran extremely hot and then extremely cold. The highs and lows of the relationship were very stressful on me, and at the end of the day, I remember just wanting peace... .I was so undone by all that had gone on that I couldn't even date for a good year or more.  I had been so dramatized that my first conversation with my husband was about me telling him that I would prefer to be single for the rest of my life than get into a relationship.  He told me I was too young for that, and he had to be my "friend" for a good while before I allowed anything to happen.  Actually, I went out of my way to avoid recognizing the attraction because I was so afraid of allowing another person into my life.  This is and was as a result of all the headjunk I had been through with the xBPD partner.  Dont let yourself be and get so traumatized that you end up like I was... .a trainwreck mess!  
First and foremost, you need tranquility and low key for your health.  I don't know what the man you've met should or would be diagnosed with, but I do know that based on what you've said, he is very unstable, and not real supportive and reliable to you.  
I am speaking defensively for you, because your body needs your head to defend it's best interests.  

What do you think about the feedback I've given you?  Please note that I am here because I have a lot of drama going on with me in my life as the mother of a dpbdd... .and I am not a counselor... .just an outspoken advocate for people who are traumatized by other people... .I just want you to be in the best position possible to take care of your struggling body... .and emotional upheaval concerns me... .
but again, what do you think?

[LoveOnTheRocks]

OK, so I know I just walked away from my last post ten minutes ago, but this post really got me to thinking about my x, and I remembered something.  He never changed... .it was me who changed... .and I went through the same thing you are going thru (only it wasn't breaking up, but other turmoil dejour all the time that I lived thru).

My question to you is:  This guy has shown you who he is over a period of years now.  I know you want him to change so that things can change for the two of you, but OBJECTIVELY, WHAT has happened to make you think he isn't going to be sticking with his proven pattern this time, as opposed to so many times in the past (when he comes back, because HE WILL come back, he always does, that's his pattern)... .

See, my x, like yours, used to do his inappropriate things with me, then he'd come back, each time with an explanation of his behavior, and then resume the behavior, rinse, and repeat.

At some point, I had seen it all so many times that I had FINALLY gotten to a place where I didn't need so much or want so much to do it one more time... .THAT is when I changed (and believe me, he never did and even after me, I've known of his relationships after me, he never did change).  BUT, back to me changing... .I just got tired of it, and tired of never being ok any longer than a little while... .so when he did what he did, we had our break up ordeal and he came back and explained... .one day I just said to myself... .you know what self?... .there is something different in his brain that makes him who and how he is.  He isn't going to stop doing this unacceptable thing that keeps us from being happy and together... .so I MUST accept this is him, who he is and how it will always be with him... .that is it... .just accept it... .ACCEPT... .and by accepting this, I also realize that this means the "dream"... .my dream... .it will always be a nice dream, but that's what it will be... .a dream... .because he is not who he would need to be in order for us to have this dream convert from a dream of a happy togetherness to a reality of it. I accepted him for who he was and what that meant for any successful "us" and let go.  I can only change me... .and regardless of what came out of his mouth about wanting to change him, his brain could not comprehend the thing needed to transition... .and so he never could and never would be different than he was. 

I was the one who walked away.  I couldn't even explain to him what I knew, but that didn't mean that I didn't understand within myself what I knew... .and so I just let go of it all.  I remember how difficult it was for me to accept that this GREAT person, who made my life a birthday cake couldn't ever really satisfy me or be with me... .even though he wanted to, even though I wanted him to... .because he kept doing these things that caused these problems that kept us from being stable... .

I needed that "cycle" to stop playing out in my life because year after year, as things "changed" yet remained the same... .I was getting more and more traumatized and resentful and listless... .So, I just stopped doing the dance for my own sake.

[Bhs]

Love on the rocks...

Couple of things... .thanks for the words.  I do not have cancer.  I have a rare autoimmune disease.  While it's classified as autoimmune it's related to the development of multiple myeloma so I am constantly monitored.  I was saying that one blowup between us occurred because he wanted to talk about the cancer his ex-mother in law had and I said I couldn't listen for an evening because I didn't have the bandwidth.  This was due to the fact that my brother was staying with me while receiving chemo and radiation as he had been diagnosed with cancer and I was in the middle of my treatment.  It was a tough time because I was trying to take care of myself and my brother. 

My treatment requires getting medication via an IV for 8 hours a day - 5 days a week - one week a month for 6 months. I get this treatment about every 24 months, so for the 4 years I've know him - about 25% of the time I was getting this treatment. I now get it at home rather than in the hospital. I don't get chemo - it's called IVIG but it is not pleasant and I have to take prednisone and other medications during the weeks I receive the drug.  It's not awful but it is unpleasant. I work for myself so I have to tough it out.

 I went through the first set of treatments alone.  The first time around I had to receive the treatments in the hospital.  He dumped me a couple of weeks before I started and I had to rely on my son who was in college to take me back and forth because I was not well enough to drive myself.  I was in the middle of the second treatment when he exploded on me for asking him not to talk about his ex-mother in law for a night.  He said I made a night that should have been about him about me.  I was dumbfounded given what I was dealing with.  I have a demanding, professional level job.  I was hooked up to the IV and working - managing my brother - and on weeks that I wasn't getting the treatment I had to travel for client meetings. 


I hear everything you are saying.  I do feel he is terribly remorseful afterwards but he can never explain what he was thinking.  He never offers a real apology - just says - I over-reacted or I feel powerless when you are sick and I act like an ass. 

I don't want to live this way but I also love him for other things he adds to my life.  I think I'm kind of stunned by his behavior.  One day he is the greatest, most supportive lover one could have - the next he's an entitled child.  He acts like a toddler sometimes - with no regard for my feelings.  I'm here to try and sort through this.  I don't want to feel bitter about him and right now I have those feelings.

I had to take a cab home from the airport when he left me there.  I was very traumatized by the whole thing and I hate sounding like a whiner.  I was close to his mother.  He spent years telling me how much she loved me.  I lost my mother a long time ago.  I told him that if had an "episode" that prevented me from saying goodbye to her that it would crush me. I really can't remember much regarding the day of the incident and a couple of days after the event.  I felt sick.  Finally, my ex-boyfriend called (I have remained close with him and his family after we stopped seeing each other) - I told him what happened and he said - get on a plane now and come be with your family.  He and his sister and his sort of girlfriend nursed me through it for a week. 
I did end up sick again and had to go on prednisone for 2 months.  He understood that was the case before he showed up again.  That is part of the reason I can't understand how he could be so cold.  I think to myself - man this is abusive but then I say - don't exaggerate this - you probably add to the problems too.  I just can't reconcile the situation.  He's two separate people and he can switch from one to the other without much warning.


Before his mom got sick he seemed to really be working on himself - starting to recognize what he was doing.  We've been together 4 years - the most time between random breakups has been 12-16 months.  The length of the breakups was diminishing and once he "committed" things were better until I got sick again. He straightened up pretty quickly but then when his mom got sick all hell broke loose.  I don't want this forever but I also don't want to leave it this way.  I wanted what he offered - therapy together to bring this to a healthier ending. 


I guess I'm here trying to figure this out.  I feel conflicted every step of the way.  Maybe he will never change; however I saw changes in him until him mom got sick then it was like all the progress stopped and he took a giant leap backwards.  I want peace but I feel broken right now and I keep wondering if I contributed more than I think I did.  I want to be able to move forward or let it go peacefully.  My son says he is an agent of chaos.  My son loved him too but after he left me in the airport that was it for him.  He knew I loved my SO's mother.  She called me on my birthdays and holidays... .she treated me better than my own mother did. I could understand my SO's over-reaction given grief but to cut me out completely was traumatic and hurtful.  I just can't make sense of it but I hear your words and I will reflect on the perspective.  That's why I'm here.  Thank you for taking the time to share your feelings.  I would tell my friend the same thing.  I'm a competent person and I feel trapped in a vortex of doom but every avenue seems painful right now... .

[Radcliff]

Wow, you really have been through the wringer.  We understand and respect that while you spoke with candor about all of the traumatic events with your SO, you are not ready to give up.  You noted that he was doing a better job of working on himself before his mother got sick.  As you probably know, stress, and in particular large, stressful, life events, can make BPD symptoms worse.  It is possible that as his mother's death becomes more distant, the impact on him and his symptoms might lessen.

You noted that you are reactive as well, but have made a lot of progress and have had therapy.  Faced with the kinds of challenges you have had in this relationship, I think almost anyone would feel reactive at times.  Do you currently have the support of a therapist?  Is DBT something that has ever interested you?  I think all of us, myself included, could benefit from DBT, it's more of a question of where it falls in our growth priorities.

RC

[Bhs]

Hi Radcliffe,
I'm not seeing a therapist currently but I saw one for several sessions after SO left me in the airport.  She told me the SO wasn't a good bet - many red flags and she mentioned BPD.  She's probably right but I clearly didn't take her advice.
When I say I'm reactive I mean I have a temper.  When the SO does these things I can be calm for a while but after too many of them I blow my top and call him a  , or tell him I've had it and walk out of his house.  With me it's over in 10 minutes and I can return and apologize. What follows, however, is weeks of him telling me I'm vitriolic and meanspirited. I'm tired of it. It's exhausting.
The SO doesn't get angry, he gets mean.  It's always the silent treatment and/or the back and forth and it lasts for days/weeks/months.  It starts to feel like a game. I'm blunt and direct and my friends and the last therapist describe me that way. However, I'm transparent and consistent- you know what you get with me.  With the SO his feelings about me change - not just his emotions in the moment... .if that makes sense. 
When I saw my therapist after my divorce he worked on helping me feel better about expressing anger - and apparently it worked!  It was easy for me to fall into the role of caretaker and we worked a lot on my need to vocalize my needs and emotions... essentially, I had to learn to advocate for myself.  I can see after reading the information on the website that my SO and I are on different ends of the spectrum.
I had classic psychotherapy and I loved it, but it's like having a second mortgage payment if you do it right. I like the process of therapy for the sake of growth.  I don't know much about DBT but I don't feel like I have a problem being emotionally stable.  I have many long-lasting relationships outside of this one. I have a great relationship with my son and had few issues with him while he was growing up - even as an adolescent.  We used to do this thing called primal screaming - it's funny but it worked.  One or both of us would say - damn, I feel so angry and frustrated and you are bugging the hell out of me right now or x,y,z is driving me nuts.  But we had a strategy - instead of taking it personally, we would go to the car - turn on the radio and scream at the top of our lungs for 3 minutes.  We always ended up laughing - the anger would go away - then we would give each a hug and get on with it. It became a thing - time for a primal scream. The love we had for one another was a given and a constant - the emotion of anger or the sadness about something (even each other) was transitory and not seen as "bad"... if that makes sense. 

What I can't handle is when emotions of anger or sadness equate to love being there or being taken away.  I don't understand how being angry makes you not love someone all of sudden.  With the SO everything has to be "nice" all the time.  He never wants to deal with the range of emotions a regular human experiences - although he gets to have them.  If I'm sad - he won't comfort me - he personalizes my feelings even if they have nothing to do with him.  If I'm angry it isn't because he's being an ass or because one of us is having a bad day - it's because I'm jealous or insecure - and any display of emotions expect love and warmth are a reason for him to tell me what a bad person I am and to reject me.

Hope that answers the question.  Thanks for the input. I'm feeling more like I don't want to deal with his instability. The relationship with him is the anomaly in my life.  I see the advice here and much of seems to be - treat the other person with special care all the time.  I understand what the message is but the other comments I've received are spot on - the SO isn't in this process with me.  I can't be accommodating him constantly while he does nothing to deal with his side of the equation.  To be blunt - I'm not interested in therapy to learn how to deal with a problematic person... .I would be interested in therapy with him to improve our relationship but that takes two. Thoughts? Am I being unreasonable?

[Bhs]

Radcliffe,
One more question... .it's been 10 months since the death of his mother. I'm wondering how long it takes to for a person to get to baseline?  I'm also worried that if this is his reaction what will happen when his father passes away and the inevitable declines associated with age take a toll on him and/or me?  That's what I'm seeing... .his strategy was to go to a Psychiatrist and get anti-depressants.  This seems to have made him worse.  He's shut down and all that comes out now is anger.  He says he hasn't grieved his mother and he's angry that I caused a fight that prevented this.  I suggested he should consider whether he made such a big fuss precisely to avoid processing his grief over his mother.  How do people with this disorder handle aging and the inevitable separations that arise?  That's what I'm most worried about. I could see him through this (if he comes around) but this is the course of life as we age.  Seems like maybe there is more of this on the horizon.  I'm still confused as to why he would offer therapy to entice me back into the relationship but then refuse and break it off again when I say - it's time.

[once removed]

It's a fine line between understanding that his behavior comes from a place of hurt and being aware that I may be repeating a defeatist cycle in my own life. How do I answer that for myself?

i would say, generally, that we each have our unique and personal reasons for staying, and that its important to examine them closely... .some are tied to our values, some are feelings of FOG, some are because the relationship is "too good to leave, too bad to stay", some are because being stuck in conflict is better than being apart. there arent necessarily right or wrong answers as to why we stay, but whether we see it, can work with it, and are motivated to change our role and seek better outcomes.

i would add that you are not alone in seeing this pattern (mind you, we all seek corrective childhood outcomes in relationships to some extent) and once we see it, its hard to unsee. sometimes the outcomes we most fear or are strongest attached to, can rule and drive our actions, so on some level it is important to detach from and grieve those patterns, and shift gears in another direction that sees the two of you individually, and your relationship, with Wisemind.

[LoveOnTheRocks]

Hi Bhs:  I wanted to come back to this thread and apologize to you for my posts, which, while I meant no harm, were not appropriate.  I am new to this group (been here about a week), and I didn't exactly understand the differences between the various groups we have here.  This group where you posted is about working things out and staying in a relationship... .a big difference from another... .detaching and moving on, for example.
I was approached by a moderator about the fact that I had "inappropriately" posted on this thread, and after figuring out what I did wrong, I realized that if I were to speak on your thread, it would be to offer encouraging support to help you stay in your relationship.
I appreciated your significant response to my posts.  I do understand a lot of what you are experiencing, but I also now understand that I owed you an apology for not supporting you in the manner you asked to be supported.  So, in light of my error as a newcomer, please accept this, my humble apology, and my recognition of being out of line though I absolutely meant no harm in openly talking to you about my own experiences and actions.
All the best, and please excuse me, I beg.   
LoTR.

[Bhs]

LOTR,

Thanks for reaching out, but I have to admit I actually found your response very real and helpful... .and it made me smile.     I also appreciate the moderator reaching out as I understand this post is about learning new ways to handle relationship issues.  With that said, you did not offend me in the least and I understood your message to be heartfelt and supportive. 


Hope you have a great day LOTR!  I'm not sure how long I will stay on this post... .the responses have given me a lot to think about - namely, how much effort can I make when I don't have a willing partner.  What you said was an echo of the struggle going on in my head and there was something clarifying about seeing it in print.

Peace