Re: PART 3: We broke up a week ago -- is there any hope left?

[alexvidaa]

MODERATION NOTE:  This thread was split off from a previous thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329777.0;all

the silver lining when it comes to healing and detaching from the wounds of the relationship (not necessarily leaving or staying) is that in order to truly do so, we are forced into a confrontation with this stuff, and once we see it, its hard to unsee. that can be the catalyst to become more resilient "frogs" that can master, adapt to and conquer our environment and our circumstances.

I'm starting to see things now that I cannot unsee. I'm starting to see things where I went wrong, where I almost went out of character from being with him--and not in a good way. The codependency is terrifying. And I think thats the worst part of all of this is that someone I've depended on for so long because he drew me into believe and want to do that, and I did accept to do it too because I believed him when he said he'd never leave me forever or hurt me. It's been the hardest thing to not have someone constant in my life anymore, someone that cares about me, who I can tell anything and everything to. We were always on the same wavelength about almost everything, which is why things were easy and great when they were good. It's probably why we always felt like we were kind of a unit, not two separate people. The nature of our relationship was handing over so much of our energy and desire to one another and I just don't know how that happened because it felt really natural. I can see how that can be destructive, especially when he is already a ticking time bomb who cannot handle much stress.
I don't think he can handle stress at all, which is why it came crashing down around the time he had to get a job or be kicked out of the country, as well as starting school again (which was the catalyst of our issues last time!).

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I read it! It's interesting to me because his mechanisms of breaking up with me and how he treated me afterwards, and especially the constant blaming and everything always having to be about him... .it's almost like he has a narcissistic "protective" ego. I don't even know if that makes sense... .then again i'm getting to a point where nothing makes sense anymore!

"should" statements are just pressures we put on ourselves and shame ourselves with. not to get all zen on you, but what if wanting him back is just a feeling that you have, not a good one or a bad one, but one you can step back and acknowledge without judgment? does it feel more manageable that way?

It's hard to think of that way when I have I'd say about 90% of the people around me telling me that he's awful and that I need to run, and that I'm stupid for feeling that I want him back after everything that he did to me. It makes me feel stupid because I'm sitting here wanting someone back who has literally treated me like I'm the worst person on the earth, and maybe (probably?) hasn't really thought about me at all. Like I'm giving my energy and thoughts to something on someone who probably isn't doing the same. It's very vicious to think about.

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[once removed]

I read it! It's interesting to me because his mechanisms of breaking up with me and how he treated me afterwards, and especially the constant blaming and everything always having to be about him... .

for some perspective on this, a lot of people are unkind and/or blaming in how they go about a breakup. i had an ex once tell me "i hate you, i never loved you, i never will love you or anything about you, i hate you". its an immature and yes, hurtful, method that people with less emotional strength and integrity dont know better than to use.
 

It's been the hardest thing to not have someone constant in my life anymore, someone that cares about me, who I can tell anything and everything to.

codependency aside, people bond and attach to and invest in romantic partners and loved ones in our lives. losing that leaves a void, and it hurts.

Our brains are wired for bonding. Breakups challenge us biologically.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/breaking-up

It's hard to think of that way when I have I'd say about 90% of the people around me telling me that he's awful and that I need to run
... .
Like I'm giving my energy and thoughts to something

so in that sense, wouldnt it make perfect sense that you miss this person? that you feel that absence.

i tried fighting it for a while - why would i feel something for someone that stole from me and jumped in a new relationship? its obviously not that simple, is it? it got a lot easier on me when i stopped shaming myself and gave myself permission to feel, and acknowledge i felt, whatever i felt. of course i missed my ex. these relationships arent all good or all bad.

your loved ones mean well. its standard advice to say "oh sweetie, youre better off without that jerk, you deserve better", or even "go find someone who deserves you". but its not that simple either, is it?

this is your grief. my advice is dont fight it. dont let (well meaning) people tell you whats right or wrong about it or be ruled by their judgment. give yourself permission to cry. to miss him. or to feel angry. thats how we process and work through it.

[Radcliff]

Never feel stupid for the way you feel.  You feel what you feel, and feelings are always valid.  Feel authentically without guilt, and do your best to act with your wise mind (the balance of feelings and intellect).

I'm sorry to hear that your father is emotionally abusive.  Unhealthy people who we need to enforce boundaries are not likely to be pleased with our boundaries.  The more confident we are, the better we can enforce boundaries calmly, in a way that is effective without unecessarily adding to conflict.  This is difficult with a parent!  But I've said that because I want to give you the idea that as you become more independent, and as you grow in your ability to enforce boundaries, you can be successful even in the most challenging situations.

What are some ways in which your father invades your boundaries?

RC

[alexvidaa]

so in that sense, wouldnt it make perfect sense that you miss this person? that you feel that absence.

i tried fighting it for a while - why would i feel something for someone that stole from me and jumped in a new relationship? its obviously not that simple, is it? it got a lot easier on me when i stopped shaming myself and gave myself permission to feel, and acknowledge i felt, whatever i felt. of course i missed my ex. these relationships arent all good or all bad.

I'm just allowing myself to feel the emotions. It's hard to not judge myself because so many people do, but it's getting a little bit better. Do people with BPD feel these feelings too, or is it only once they're out of the devaluation stage that they start to feel it? Do you think there's a possibility that I've been painted black forever?

this is your grief. my advice is dont fight it. dont let (well meaning) people tell you whats right or wrong about it or be ruled by their judgment. give yourself permission to cry. to miss him. or to feel angry. thats how we process and work through it.

I'm going through it now. Some days are better than others. Some days I realize that I'm better off without him (as in the way he was treating me towards the end and then the breakup and even after). Some days I just miss having him as my friend who always listened to me and genuinely cared.

Now I'm going through grief of a real person--a person that has been my friend for over 9 years. He knew all about her and even met her last summer where we all spent the day together. She was battling cancer for 2 years and she was always a topic of conversation (Started by mostly him) at least on a weekly basis throughout our relationship and even up to our breakup. He'd always ask how she was doing, we'd read her blog posts together (that's how she updated people on how she was doing medically and in life). They were fb friends and instagram too. Things were looking up for her in the summer, but around the time we broke up, things went downhill. I tried to tell him about what was going on, but he didn't respond and later accused me of "emotional manipulation" by telling him what was happening with her, someone he did care about. My heart hurts a lot today, but I found out that she passed away last night. I'm not sure if I should tell him what happened or give details of a funeral or anything because #1 i don't want to be accused of anything again and #2 because it was advised not to contact him. On the other hand, I really did think he cared about her... .What is best here? maybe I'm overthinking things idk

[once removed]

Do people with BPD feel these feelings too, or is it only once they're out of the devaluation stage that they start to feel it?

people with BPD are just like you and me, except they feel everything more intensely. the difference here is that when two people break up, they are usually on a different page in terms of their grief. one of the two usually feels blindsided, and one of the two usually has done a fair amount of grieving. so the paths will not look the same.

i am very sorry to hear about your friend alexvidaa, and i can imagine that exacerbates your grief. i hope that you got to spend some valuable time with her.

in answer to your question, i wouldnt bring it up to him.

[alexvidaa]

. one of the two usually feels blindsided, and one of the two usually has done a fair amount of grieving. so the paths will not look the Same.

Idk, just doesn’t seem like it, but then again I’m drawn in and out by the constant push pull that maybe they grieve during a push back? Either way, a lot of it was exacerbated in ways that were not my fault and just things he couldn’t handle. In the end, the way he handled it was the same way except to a different degree that he did last time. It’s just not normal to go from literally planning an engagement to blocking me out of his life forever in a month. I’m sure I’ve said that but I think no amount of reasoning can make sense out of that in my mind at least.

i am very sorry to hear about your friend alexvidaa, and i can imagine that exacerbates your grief. i hope that you got to spend some valuable time with her.

in answer to your question, i wouldnt bring it up to him.

It makes things so much worse tbh. Because he knew her and cared about her too and has met her and etc he always talked to me about her. And he’s the one person I want to talk to right now. Because he has been for the past couple of years.

And to update because I was in dilemma, my mom decided to tell him with a very brief text, without telling me or letting me know she was going to do that, of course. I hope that wouldn’t cause a set back with whenever he would feel better talking to me again... .

However when I think about it, it really hurts to know I have to have that thought cross my mind. What if he is upset with me for being told this info during this period? When he really shouldn’t be since he did care about her. And I thought he had my mom blocked but doesn’t apparently because the text went through. No surprise on the no response though. Which is almost semi hurtful because he knew how much she meant to me.

Ah, so many feelings. Not sure I’ve been in this much pain in this short amount of time.

I apologize if some of it gets repetitive (I’m trying to catch myself!) and as always I’m thankful to have you all here. Truly. This has been a life saver on trying to figure stuff out

[alexvidaa]

Never feel stupid for the way you feel.  You feel what you feel, and feelings are always valid.  Feel authentically without guilt, and do your best to act with your wise mind (the balance of feelings and intellect).

Thank you for that. Sometimes people really need to hear that because people’s feelings constantly get invalidated (either intentionally or not) by people’s opinions and beliefs and etc.

I'm sorry to hear that your father is emotionally abusive.  Unhealthy people who we need to enforce boundaries are not likely to be pleased with our boundaries.  The more confident we are, the better we can enforce boundaries calmly, in a way that is effective without unecessarily adding to conflict.  This is difficult with a parent!  But I've said that because I want to give you the idea that as you become more independent, and as you grow in your ability to enforce boundaries, you can be successful even in the most challenging situations.

What are some ways in which your father invades your boundaries?

Well my father is one of those who thinks that he doesn’t need to respect my boundaries simply because he is the parent. If I don’t comply with his expectations, things like food/eating dinner have been taken away as “punishment.” I’ve been independently living for the past 4.5 years (besides with the ex) so this is frustrating to say the least. It’s why I’m pushing so hard to get a job in the city so I can leave and be financially independent as well like I used to be before I had to abruptly leave after the breakup.

Many ways: constantly yelling, doesn’t ask me if I have time to do something before giving me a task and errand list, doesn’t listen to what I’m saying, constantly saying hurtful things to be spiteful (ex: “it’s no wonder he left you, you’re just weak for being “sad,” I shouldn’t have to put up with you figuring yourself out”) that last one was said after I tried to confide in him that my anxiety and depression had worsened.

Despite my mom being a therapist herself, she can never come to bring herself to see me as having adhd, anxiety, and depression because I was raised to meet their expectations of the perfect and smart child my entire life. Even though I have diagnosis now for these things, she still will not step in my shoes to take some perspective. Yet with my brother, anything wrong that goes on in his life or anything rude he does is just given the excuse of adhd. On the other hand, ive tried to explain to them that I cannot do everything they ask of me because I can’t even help myself correctly right now. I’m having a hard time with depression which leaves me with no motivation for applications or the gym. I have to make myself see my friends nowadays. Despite this, I’ve recieced commitment to misunderstanding me and not really getting it.

[Radcliff]

I'm sorry that your father is saying those things to you.  Am I understanding correctly that in your mid twenties he is withholding food as punishment?  While you may know that his behavior is not appropriate, the impact of his voice on you, even after you've left home, will not be easy to overcome.  Are you able to access a therapist to help with that tough journey?  Tackling that legacy while you're young, while you're still dating and considering what you want in a life partner, would be a very healthy thing to do.

RC

[alexvidaa]

I'm sorry that your father is saying those things to you.  Am I understanding correctly that in your mid twenties he is withholding food as punishment?  While you may know that his behavior is not appropriate, the impact of his voice on you, even after you've left home, will not be easy to overcome.  Are you able to access a therapist to help with that tough journey?  Tackling that legacy while you're young, while you're still dating and considering what you want in a life partner, would be a very healthy thing to do.

RC

Oh goodness! I apologize for a greatly late response. I looked back on part 2 and thought posts were erased and didn’t know part 3 was made!

Anyways, yes that is correct! It’s crazy to me that things continue to happen this way. I feel very trapped but I’ve tried to create an exit plan by applying for jobs and continuing my applications. Good news: after 4 rounds of interviews for a dream job, I got passed to the next round with the ceo! So that’s great stuff going on. I’m trying to get into a therapist too. I’ve come to accept my depression and anxiety and need to talk it out with someone.

I’ve also come to realize that the issues I’m having come from being trauma bonded with the ex, which is a very very sick thing that happens during a toxic relationship, apparently. Things I didn’t even know were emotionally abusive were uncovered as such. After talking with some more people and joining some more support groups, it seems to me that he has traits of being narcisssistc, which could explain the super brutal way he ended things and his complete lack of empathy or care. In many ways I feel dumb or naive for not even realizing that things were like that, and I just allowed myself to keep getting myself sucked in.

It’s hard to know if I want to be in contact with him still because of being trauma bonded and still being traumatized, or if I genuinely miss him. Does anyone have any insight or advice on that? Also as a kind if separate question, is it advisable or okay to make contact at any point (not in the near future, but say like 6 months from now or something if I even wanted to at that point)? Or is it best to just leave it all be

[alexvidaa]

I’ve seen from social media and info from some friends that he’s been adding/following all of his past exes and people he has liked (but not mutual) or vise versa. Some of them are people he even admitted treated him like trash. So now I feel even less hopeless. He does seem to have no remorse for things.

[Radcliff]

You have made an amazing amount of progress, and really seem to be adding some good support as well.  Plus, congratulations on the job progress! 

With regards to future contact with him, a couple of questions come to mind.  The first, is what would your goals be for contacting him?  (That's not a challenge, just encouraging you to voice what you'd want to gain, as part of the decision process).  The second is about strength -- as you're getting healthier, gaining perspective, and building your strength, you may have an impression of how strong you'd need to be in order to interact with him and maintain your own healthy perspective.  Are you there yet? 

RC

[Radcliff]

It's been a few days.  How are you doing?

RC

[alexvidaa]

With regards to future contact with him, a couple of questions come to mind.  The first, is what would your goals be for contacting him?  (That's not a challenge, just encouraging you to voice what you'd want to gain, as part of the decision process).  The second is about strength -- as you're getting healthier, gaining perspective, and building your strength, you may have an impression of how strong you'd need to be in order to interact with him and maintain your own healthy perspective.  Are you there yet? 

RC

I’m not sure what I expect out of contacting him tbh. Maybe just to even start talking again because I still do miss him and do worry about how he’s doing. I still haven’t been contacted and it’s been about 2 months since our last point of contact that I told you all about. People keep telling me that they’re so sure that he will eventually, but I’m just not sure. I am tempted to try to send a text to him to say that I hope all is going well with him. However, I don’t know if I am still blocked. If that text happened to go through, would me being unblocked mean anything? Is this even a good idea ? Lol

I think I am strong. I’ve seen the truth. I’ve seen things from a more objective perspective. It doesn’t mean I agree how he treated me, but stepping away from it made me realize how messed up he acted with me. The things he’d do and say to me definitely were not okay. I became okay with accepting and constantly forgiving despite cognitive dissonance because I’ve had to do that my whole life with my father (who treated me similarly). I’m strong enough to interact, although if I ever saw him again, I’d be scared of what I would feel. I think the wave of uncertainty with him would certainty give me anxiety, but I think that is expected.

Anyways I’m excited to share that I got the job and will be returning to the city where my heart broke in two. I’m excited to be independent and not dependent on someone for living there. I’m excited to go back to a city that I fell in love with And became my Home over the past year and a half of visiting him and living there. It’s crazy to me, but hey, it’s happening! Now I’d just be worried about unexpectedly  seeing him  

[alexvidaa]

Also would like to add that it’s been a wild ride. This post is labeled as 1 week ago, and here I am coming up at the 3 month mark in two weeks.

Also would like to add that all of our pictures he had on Instagram and fb of us are still up? Does anyone think that’s weird? (ESP for instagram Bc 14/16 pics he has on there have me in it)

[Radcliff]

Anyways I’m excited to share that I got the job and will be returning to the city where my heart broke in two. I’m excited to be independent and not dependent on someone for living there. I’m excited to go back to a city that I fell in love with And became my Home over the past year and a half of visiting him and living there. It’s crazy to me, but hey, it’s happening! Now I’d just be worried about unexpectedly  seeing him 

Congratulations on the job        (and sorry for the tardy reply!).  I am so excited for you.  You shared how it was difficult to grow and establish boundaries while you were living with your parents, so it's great to hear that you are out on your own.  You worked hard to get there!  When do you start work?

It sounds like there is still a lot of uncertainty about how you feel about him, especially how you might feel if you bumped into him.  It's only been two months, so that certainly makes sense!  How are you processing your feelings?  Do you have any friends you can talk to who will listen without judgement?

RC

[alexvidaa]

You worked hard to get there!  When do you start work?

It sounds like there is still a lot of uncertainty about how you feel about him, especially how you might feel if you bumped into him.  It's only been two months, so that certainly makes sense!  How are you processing your feelings?  Do you have any friends you can talk to who will listen without judgement?

RC

I just started training and it’s been awesome so far. I hope it continues to go well! Thank you so much!

I still do love him. My mind still tries to idealize him even though I know he said a lot of messed up stuff to me. I still don’t like how things ended and it kind of haunts me. I’ve been processing my feelings by accepting what happened and accepting that I still love him and that’s okay. I can’t chsnge that. I still think about whether I’m still blocked or not and whether or not I should reach out, or if that’s a bad idea? What are your thoughts about this? Just to say something like “hey, I know it’s been a while but I hope you’re doing okay. I feel bad about the way things went down and hope one day we can talk about it. Congratulations on finishing school, I’m proud you were able to push through the toughest times.”

Or maybe that’s just me trying to be nice. I don’t know... .I’m anxious about running into him not because of how I’d react but because of how he would. I don’t know if he would react bad or good.

And no, no friends want to talk to me about this free of judgement. They think I’m crazy I even think about him anymore so it’s kind of me on my own here.

[once removed]

Just to say something like “hey, I know it’s been a while but I hope you’re doing okay. I feel bad about the way things went down and hope one day we can talk about it. Congratulations on finishing school, I’m proud you were able to push through the toughest times.”

what would you like to see happen? how do you think he might react?

And no, no friends want to talk to me about this free of judgement. They think I’m crazy I even think about him anymore so it’s kind of me on my own here.

thats a bummer... .

have you tried just laying it out that what you need from them is to listen without judgment?

ive had to just lay it out like that plenty of times. sometimes, no, people cant give what we need, but it doesnt hurt to communicate it.

[alexvidaa]

what would you like to see happen? how do you think he might react?

thats a bummer... .

have you tried just laying it out that what you need from them is to listen without judgment?

ive had to just lay it out like that plenty of times. sometimes, no, people cant give what we need, but it doesnt hurt to communicate it.

I’m not sure. I’d like to maybe see him open up to talk about things but not sure. Also he’s going to react very nice OR. Completely awful. I’m not sure it’s worth the risk. I’m just not even sure anymore.

I hit a roadblock today and broke down crying.

 It’s been 3 months since my narc and I broke up but things continue to unravel and unfold. It’s been 2.5 months of no contact, and as far as I’m concerned I am still blocked on Facebook, WhatsApp, and phone. The only thing I kind of had left was the fact he left his Instagram public and he didn’t block me there. While I was at work I saw that he had deleted only HALF of our pictures on his Instagram today—I ended up having an anxiety attack because I feel like once pictures are deleted, it’s gets way more real. The pictures deleted were ones he posted with just me in them giving me a love bomb shout out, and then ones of our anniversaries or kissing. He kept ones of us without captions, and one where I was kissing him on the cheek. Either way I am distraught even though I know I shouldn’t be. Why would he only delete half though? I’m very lost on that one so if anyone can logically explain, please do haha

Only thing I could think of is that there was a girl he dated (no relationship) before me, and that didn’t work out because she told him his social anxiety was embarrassing and disgusting in front of her friends. She messaged him while we started dating and he blocked her there and on Facebook. Days after we broke up, he friended her again. Then, a couple days ago she followed his twitter account on hers which she hasn’t posted on since 2016. Then TODAY (same day he deleted pictures) she made a new instagram and started to follow him. They live across the country from each other though. If she was so “awful” to him, why would he even want to re-engage, unless he was lying which is probable . Maybe it’s a reach, I don’t know. Either way, I’m lost. I’m hurt. I wish this process would end.

[Radcliff]

once removed had a great question about that quote that you're thinking of saying to him.  And the answer to the question will tell you what to do.  The words were perfect, nicely said.  If you can say them as a kind of karmic goodwill thing, just expressing positive sentiments and expecting absolutely nothing in return, even ready for him to be nasty back but feeling as if you've expressed your values of goodwill, then it could be a good thing to say what you've written.  It might give you some degree of closure.  If you have any expectations at all about how you want him to react (and it would be totally understandable if those expectations were tough to avoid) then I'd hold off.  Unmet expectations about how we wish our pwBPD would behave can be among the most painful things, so we want to avoid setting ourselves up.

Why did he delete only half the pictures?  For some reason, that course of action was the one the minimized his pain the most.  What he did made sense to him in some way.  Trying to figure out our pwBPD's motives, especially if we are split up and have no communication with them, is another way we often sign ourselves up for a lot of angst.  When I'm freaking out about what someone else's motives are, I tell myself that it made sense to them, that whatever my imagination is telling me it's almost certainly not as bad as that, and I try to let go of worrying about it.  It's not always perfect, but that approach has eased my anxiety quite a bit when I've used it.

RC

[once removed]

I’m not sure. I’d like to maybe see him open up to talk about things but not sure. Also he’s going to react very nice OR. Completely awful. I’m not sure it’s worth the risk. I’m just not even sure anymore.

remember, with the last reach out, he made a threat. i dont think presently there are signs to go on that the ice has thawed in that regard.

While I was at work I saw that he had deleted only HALF of our pictures on his Instagram today
... .
and then ones of our anniversaries or kissing. He kept ones of us without captions, and one where I was kissing him on the cheek.

i think whats safe to say is that he removed the emotionally loaded pictures. its not uncommon to do this post breakup. when my ex and i broke up i put everything out of sight and out of mind until much later on.

I wish this process would end.

you have some control over the process in that regard. where do you want the process to go?

[alexvidaa]

Back over a month later.

Still no contact from him.

After not trying to contact him whatsoever, I found out a couple weeks ago I was randomly blocked on twitter... .

He's also gained like 45 pounds since the whole thing went down.

Still very sad about everything. People tell me that exBPDs always come back but at this point it's been 4 months. It seems like a long time.

Anyone have any insight to this? :/

[Radcliff]

Nice to hear from you, though I'm sorry about the sadness.  Four months is a long time, but anything can happen.  How are you?  How is the new job?

RC