Advice for handling BPD mom's heaviness with my kids

[Joha242]

... .Any ideas about how I can kindly steer my mom away from these emotionally heavy words? I can handle it, no problem! but my kids are another story... .The words are slight,  but pack a lot of heavy emotion in them, and I only recognize them because
a) I've been in therapy for years and have spent PLENTY of time analyzing my BPD mom,
b) I've read a few of the BPD books, and
c)... .oh yeah, a lifetime of being her inappropriate emotional crutch/dumping ground... .but now I'm "cold and distant" according to her (actually, it's called having healthy emotional boundaries) ... .

Anyway, my kids (ages 10 and 6) ADORE my mother, partly b/c she gets in tune with them 100% and almost on their level. We often use a phrase that she "sucks the air out of a room" (narcissism) and it truly feels like I have another child when she's visiting.  She lives 3 hours and away and we have visits about every 4-6 weeks, which honestly, it's A LOT for me to manage given that my ex-husband and I share custody and that I also have other family. When she visits, she always stays for the ENTIRE weekend and there's such a flurry of texts or emails leading up to it then about 80% of the time I'm already over it and maxed out before she's even arrived. Unfortunately, her visits become something I merely endure rather than opportunities to feel connected and respected.

To get to the point... .my mom's drops little emotional bombs on my kids and makes them feel bad. She'll say things like "well, you know that Grandma doesn't have any other family. You guys are all I have!"... .and when they ask about my sister (who has been no-contact for about a year) "I don't know why, but Auntie Jane doesn't want to talk to me anymore and it makes me so sad." ... .or when she's leaving after a 3-night visit, "I have to go because your mom says that 3 nights is enough. But, oh! I will miss you guys so much! It's so quiet at my house!"

So, any advice about how to approach talking to her about these little bombs, if at all?

[Turkish]

I'd handle it on your kids' side rather than going to your mom.  Ask them what they think when grandma says things like that.  It's understandably annoying and reminds you of her inappropriate emotional dumping. 

It's good that they only see her every few weeks. It isn't like when you grow up and had no escape, and had no trusted and wise person to guide you (you for your kids) through her waifish behaviors.

My view on these things, when the parent isn't critically dangerous (screaming, suicide threats, violence) is to treat it like the parent is a divorced spouse.  Don't alienate the kids. 

[Harri]

I think that Turkish has a good idea of having your kids learn about their feelings, what is their responsibility and with you validating their emotions and thoughts.  Use these situations as a way to teach critical thinking skills and enforcing good boundaries.  If they were younger I would say to intervene but they are old enough to be able to learn about this stuff. 

[Notwendy]

I agree with handling this on the kids' side. I don't think speaking to her will change anything. I can relate to feeling as if I have an extra child when my BPD mother visited.

What she is doing is triangulating " mom says I have to leave" "aunt Janie won't talk to me". This is from victim perspective. She is putting your children in rescuer position. Her confiding things like " you are all I have" is enlisting them as her emotional caretakers. I was very sensitive to my mother doing this with my children and it bothered me. She did the same thing with me at that age.

One of my approaches with the kids was to reinforce their boundaries. When they feel bad or icky it is because BPD mother is, in a sense, manipulating them. I wanted my kids to recognize this feeling- because it will be a good way to know when anyone is doing this. I wasn't so concerned that my own mother would do something bad to them as them being used to these dynamics- thinking it was their job to be emotional caretakers, not being able to say no- in any relationship.

I had to work on my own issues with this, be able to set boundaries with BPD mother and role model it for the kids. BPD mother didn't like it but I felt it was better to role model appropriate boundaries.

Some of this may take care of itself. Your kids are young, but teens are busy. They will still want to visit with your mother but not spend a whole weekend with her. They will have their own things to do. I would reinforce this- shorter visits with BPD mother- as the kids will have other plans with their peers. She will likely say things that make them feel bad " I came all the way to see you" but they will have to learn to politely stand up for themselves with her. It could be a good skill for them.

I would continue to reinforce their feelings and boundaries. Eventually they will be old enough to have the psychology talk with them. My kids are older and understand what BPD is and that my mother has it.

[Joha242]

Thanks, all! And that is some spot-on advice! My daughter (10) already has a keen "emotional BS detector" and she has already had some chance to use it. My son is not as emotional and doesn't pick up on those little things as much (maybe age, maybe gender, maybe just simply his demeanor). And yes, BPD mom is already disappointed that her granddaughter has a BB tourney this weekend because it will take time away from her... .(sigh) "Soon the kids will want to be their friends more than they want to be with me... ." (sigh) I guess it bothers me that she weighs down these normal, healthy, human development milestones with sadness and as reflection upon herself.

And yes, I often have to reinforce that she leave early-ish on a Sunday (or in this case, Monday, due to the 3-day weekend), because I want to have time alone with them.  I have no problem stating this. It is interesting that with a lot of very difficult life challenges (my lovely father died, my marriage ended, and I bought a house), I have become a fierce warrior of my own heart, my down-time, and I find myself less and less interested in the need to make excuses or explain a "no."  However, I will readily admit that my BPD mom still throws me through a loop, and their are a few BIG situations in the past that I will never forget in which she was hugely inappropriate (typically holidays), and that I still guard myself against creating those situations and try to accommodate her. This is what I would like to stop -- the constant accommodations.

[Notwendy]

For my BPD mother, whatever I have to give isn't enough, so I have just had to decide what I can do and what I will not do. She doesn't like it but I have to just decide my own values in this. You can too. It wasn't our jobs to be our mothers' emotional caretakers but our parents made it our jobs. It is important to me to allow my kids the freedom to not be this for her. They should treat her with respect and kindness, but meeting her emotional needs is not their job.

[Joha242]

... .and another angle: I find myself constantly analyzing my own reactions, as in this scenario:

My mom arrived to our town yesterday (Thurs) but in advance I already told her I could only do a Fri-Sun night visit so she got a hotel. But she texts me first thing this AM to ask if she could come to the house while me and the kids are at work and school. Fine, I said, key's hidden in the usual spot. A couple days ago I told her not to bring any food because I had over-bought at Costco, knowing I'd have a full house. Please, I asked, don't bring food (she likes to anyway and even says "I know you didn't want me to do this" while unloading groceries). So, why does she need to be at my house today? Because she brought over all the ingredients and wants to cook a couple different soups. This is literally like a DECADES old thing with us... .and still happens every time. And it angers me... .but why? Isn't it a kind gesture, after all? Isn't it ... .sweet?

To me, it's not, and this is the part of our relationship that I find exhausting: the part where I am constantly looking at my own reactions and questioning where they're coming from and if they're valid. I will readily admit that there is no other relationship in which I do this.

Also, I won't eat the soup and it will hurt her feelings and she'll pout about it and be self-righteously, mildly, angry about it. I can't eat the soup because it will just feel... .not right... .And I know this because, as I've said, it's literally a DECADES old thing with us. So, we haven't even met up yet for our 3-day visit and I'm already feeling so yucky and emotionally drained.

[Panda39]

Hi Joha242,

Welcome to the BPD Family 

My mom arrived to our town yesterday (Thurs) but in advance I already told her I could only do a Fri-Sun night visit so she got a hotel. But she texts me first thing this AM to ask if she could come to the house while me and the kids are at work and school. Fine, I said, key's hidden in the usual spot. A couple days ago I told her not to bring any food because I had over-bought at Costco, knowing I'd have a full house. Please, I asked, don't bring food (she likes to anyway and even says "I know you didn't want me to do this)

She's boundary busting here regarding the food.  But this sounds like a little dance the two of you do, you say no and she does it anyway, you know she will, she knows you don't like it but does it anyway. It's a pain in the neck. You could work on enforcing boundaries regarding the food but I'm not sure this is the situation (unless you do) it's about picking your battles. 

What if you just accepted that she's gonna do what she's gonna do with this one, maybe plan on it, let her get the groceries, maybe plan the meals together so you cook something other than soup.  She gets to shop and you get some free groceries/meals.  That said I agree with you it's totally annoying that she is doing something in your house that you asked her not to do. 

We could look at enforcing your don't bring food boundary if you like... .like the key to the house is no longer there for her to use when no one is home, or you can tell her at this visit if she brings more food she won't be coming over to the house next time and that you will visit her at the hotel, or you will go to her house instead. Just some ideas.

Links go more on boundaries... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0

Also, I won't eat the soup and it will hurt her feelings and she'll pout about it and be self-righteously, mildly, angry about it. I can't eat the soup because it will just feel... .not right... .And I know this because, as I've said, it's literally a DECADES old thing with us. So, we haven't even met up yet for our 3-day visit and I'm already feeling so yucky and emotionally drained.

I'm hearing FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) or emotional blackmail... .when you feel pressured it's usually FOG.  That's why eating the soup doesn't feel right, you're obligated to eat it because she went to all that trouble to make it especially for you  Or she made this for you and now you owe her something.  Or you are made to feel guilty for refusing something that you've already said you don't want.

Link to more on FOG... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0

Panda39

[Harri]

I really like Pandas suggestion for the boundaries about soup.  As an aside I just binged on Seinfeld and recently saw the episode "No soup for you!"    Not to make light of this because what your mom is doing is annoying as heck, but I find if I can laugh about something I can relax and then think more clearly about a different course of action.

So, what can you do differently this time (and next)?  Something that is in line with your values and empowers you and gives you a feeling of confidence.

[Notwendy]

I don't have this issue as BPD mom wants to be taken care of, not take care of someone. She would come visit and enlist me to do things for her. If you can believe this- I am middle age and she is elderly now, but she has not cooked a meal for me for as long as I can recall since I was young ( and not sure even then- Dad took us out to eat a lot )

She is a boundary buster in other ways. If she is in our home, she snoops through everything. We have to lock up anything we feel is private- bank statements, letters. We have absolutely no control over her behavior. She does what she wants, when she wants. I think the bottom line is that- words don't work with her. We have to have locks.

A boundary isn't something we impose on another person. It is the steps we take to take care of our possessions, values and time. You can not control when your mother comes to visit ( glad she got a hotel ). You say Friday she comes Thursday and gets a hotel- that is her choice. The only boundary you can have on your house is the key to your house- you don't leave it for her.

Sometimes you have to pick your battles. If she insists on buying food, it is hard to stop her. It would probably be a lot of trouble to not allow her to bring it in the house. Maybe another way to deal with it is not to stock up and just accept that she's going to do it. I think the only way to stop this is to tell her not to visit or throw it out of the house- and that may cause more issues. However, if this does matter to you then you would have to take that step. Keeping boundaries is tough because with a pwBPD, it puts us in "bad guy" position to them, but sometimes it becomes a choice, the boundary or letting them have their wish.

[Joha242]

Of course, y'all are right. This is totally a chance to pick the battles, and soup shall not be one (or won) of them. Yes, "No soup for you!" Thanks for the laugh... .

Because things have changed here, and soup is not the issue, but my ex has landed in the hospital. This, of course, means I am stretched really thin, and I needed her help with the children over the weekend so I could be there for him.  She is happy to help (sigh) but likes to let me know what a great inconvenience it is for her.

In truth, it's a MASSIVE inconvenience for me! My ex was having a really tough time in the ER and my mom was texting me "You're almost out of dishwashing soap. There is an new, unopened one here under the sink. Should I use that one or something else?" Good lord, woman! ... .not a high priority for me! I'm in the ER!  And these little needling texts occurred several times a day over the next several days, and I know it's because she JUST NEEDS to insert herself in some way into every aspect of life. It's insane to me that she has to be RIGHT IN THERE with everything... .and the fact that she's just one stepped removed (yet closer than anyone) just isn't enough.

And after drama about should she stay/should she go... .and I mean DRAMA ... .I finally just asked her to go. "Thanks for being her for us when we needed you, but I think you should go now. I know you have things to attend to at home. We'll be in touch." Gimme a break.

... .and still, in a way, I just feel bad for her. Some of it is the guilt part of the FOG, but some of it is a genuine empathy that she has to live her life this way.  It must be difficult.

[Harri]

I'm sorry to hear about your ex.  Is he doing better?  Have things settled for you?

Okay, so yes, pick your battles and you did that with the dish soap (!) while dealing with difficult matters in the hospital for your ex!  Good lord woman is right!  I think silly texts/calls like that are because they are trying to feel connection.  Unfortunately, the tactics they use just push people away and annoy them (in the best case). 

I finally just asked her to go. "Thanks for being her for us when we needed you, but I think you should go now. I know you have things to attend to at home. We'll be in touch." Gimme a break.

I like what you said here... .a lot.  You gave yourself a break!   

... .and still, in a way, I just feel bad for her. Some of it is the guilt part of the FOG, but some of it is a genuine empathy that she has to live her life this way.  It must be difficult.

Yes.  I have/had some BPD like behaviors, not enough to be diagnosed but enough to struggle, and it is a very difficult way to live.  Fortunately, compassion coupled with boundaries is good.  It's called detaching with love.

[LeneLu]

As I read through this thread, I am thinking about how I would handle this (which is probably the first reason not to follow it.) I would have an empty fridge the next few visits.  After two or three times, my pBPD would get irritated I have nothing there in preparation for her visit, feel "unappreciated"  and comment that I am taking advantage of her.   However, it is an opportunity to  say, "When I ask you to not bring food, you still do and I just don't have the room for your groceries and mine." It is a completely rationale argument, if you are interested in going there.

I so relate to the irritation with needling texts.  I used to get so aggravated by them and my husband just didn't understand.  I honestly didn't understand either--why were they so bothersome?  Why was I such a petty person to get irritated by them?  So thanks for sharing that and letting me know I am not alone in that perception. To me the deeper message is not the texts themselves, but "I am still here.  You can't ignore me... .even when I am 900 miles away. Pay attention to me."