She tries to maintain some control over me. This does not feel good.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

About my boundaries. There is something. The ways she does things sometimes result in me feeling like she is controlling how and when we are going to see each other. This does not feel good.

In one of our conversations about the heat I was listening to her reasons for not coming.  Something came up that I didn't feel comfortable with. She said that she wanted to come 'spontaneously'. Not my thing. Never was. Besides, I have a roommate here with me and one of the agreements we have is not to have our partners over. She knew that and was OK with that. So we have to make plans, at least arrange when and where we meet when she comes. But my spouse brought up in the conversation one incident last winter where clearly she felt hurt by. Only she was contemptuous about it, not expressing that her feelings had been hurt.

Here it is.
She had come to visit once last December (had no roommates than) without discussing it before as we always do. We were making Christmas plans. Actually I don't like Christmas very much myself, and she knows that about me. I knew her to not like Christmas either.

But her friend who lives in the city must have talked to her about making possible plans for this year to meet at the apartment because my spouse out of the blue called me and told me that we were going to have Christmas dinner here with her friend. We never did such thing. We had planned and done Thanksgiving at the apartment this way (important holiday here) but we never celebrated Christmas. I think she must have felt like she wanted to be good cheer for her friend. But the way she said that was like a command she was giving me over the phone. I remember how much I disliked being told this and that way. I pondered this idea for a while and was planning to talk about it on her next call but it never came. Instead she showed up unannounced at the apartment.

That was a very unusual behavior of hers. Like she had never done such thing before. The week before she had some family member visiting her at her house and during that time we had some difficulty communicating over the phone, like playing phone tag. There were uncomfortable vibes I remember.

So when she showed up unannounced I felt surprised, but also put upon. I asked her why she had not told me before and it appeared than that she hadn't wanted to. I felt disrespected by that. She seemed angry herself and presented as if something was wrong with me for being surprised. I remembered she can have paranoid episodes sometimes. But right than I felt like I had to hold a boundary. My reply was 'Why didn't you give me a call before coming?' She didn't like that.

Back to this recent conversation about her coming 'spontaneously', I see how she brought this incident back. We had a fall out that day, so we both are a bit uneasy about that. But the real issue under it is that it's not me, who wants 'spontaneous visits'. It's her and/or her friend.

The thing is, when she comes to the city, she also kind of wants to visit with her friends in the city. She has two of them here, one who lives nearby. The other one is usually too busy for her. Usually I don't mind for her to arrange visits with her friends when she comes over for an overnight (while there is no roommates). But the last times she came over where shorter visits. Even than for a couple of times I graciously made the effort of invite her friend over for a short visit. This time I feel differently about it.

Yes, I want my spouse to have a good time when she comes to the city and in general I am happy if she enjoys visiting with her good friend at the same time. But now it's not OK. I feel put out by it because we don't see each other enough, and the balance of power between us is off. I see my spouse is trying to establish a pattern where she shows me (and her friends) that I am less important than them to her.

Another aspect that seem to show up once in a while and she never speaks about it openly, is that because she pays money for the apartment, she feels entitled to use it as she pleases. But that's my home too. And primarily my home here. I had to give up how things were going regarding 'spontaneous' visits at her house in the country. Because there she claimed blatantly that it was her house, objecting to my boundaries on unannounced visits. She also did let her friend come over to live with us without consulting me. That's a part of my reasons for not living with her now.

It's all part of the overall ways she tries to maintain some control over me.

[braveSun]

About my boundaries. There is something. The ways she does things sometimes result in me feeling like she is controlling how and when we are going to see each other. This does not feel good.

In one of our conversations about the heat I was listening to her reasons for not coming.  Something came up that I didn't feel comfortable with. She said that she wanted to come 'spontaneously'. Not my thing. Never was. Besides, I have a roommate here with me and one of the agreements we have is not to have our partners over. She knew that and was OK with that. So we have to make plans, at least arrange when and where we meet when she comes. But my spouse brought up in the conversation one incident last winter where clearly she felt hurt by. Only she was contemptuous about it, not expressing that her feelings had been hurt.

Here it is.
She had come to visit once last December (had no roommates than) without discussing it before as we always do. We were making Christmas plans. Actually I don't like Christmas very much myself, and she knows that about me. I knew her to not like Christmas either.

But her friend who lives in the city must have talked to her about making possible plans for this year to meet at the apartment because my spouse out of the blue called me and told me that we were going to have Christmas dinner here with her friend. We never did such thing. We had planned and done Thanksgiving at the apartment this way (important holiday here) but we never celebrated Christmas. I think she must have felt like she wanted to be good cheer for her friend. But the way she said that was like a command she was giving me over the phone. I remember how much I disliked being told this and that way. I pondered this idea for a while and was planning to talk about it on her next call but it never came. Instead she showed up unannounced at the apartment.

That was a very unusual behavior of hers. Like she had never done such thing before. The week before she had some family member visiting her at her house and during that time we had some difficulty communicating over the phone, like playing phone tag. There were uncomfortable vibes I remember.

So when she showed up unannounced I felt surprised, but also put upon. I asked her why she had not told me before and it appeared than that she hadn't wanted to. I felt disrespected by that. She seemed angry herself and presented as if something was wrong with me for being surprised. I remembered she can have paranoid episodes sometimes. But right than I felt like I had to hold a boundary. My reply was 'Why didn't you give me a call before coming?' She didn't like that.

Back to this recent conversation about her coming 'spontaneously', I see how she brought this incident back. We had a fall out that day, so we both are a bit uneasy about that. But the real issue under it is that it's not me, who wants 'spontaneous visits'. It's her and/or her friend.

The thing is, when she comes to the city, she also kind of wants to visit with her friends in the city. She has two of them here, one who lives nearby. The other one is usually too busy for her. Usually I don't mind for her to arrange visits with her friends when she comes over for an overnight (while there is no roommates). But the last times she came over where shorter visits. Even than for a couple of times I graciously made the effort of invite her friend over for a short visit. This time I feel differently about it.

Yes, I want my spouse to have a good time when she comes to the city and in general I am happy if she enjoys visiting with her good friend at the same time. But now it's not OK. I feel put out by it because we don't see each other enough, and the balance of power between us is off. I see my spouse is trying to establish a pattern where she shows me (and her friends) that I am less important than them to her.

Another aspect that seem to show up once in a while and she never speaks about it openly, is that because she pays money for the apartment, she feels entitled to use it as she pleases. But that's my home too. And primarily my home here. I had to give up how things were going regarding 'spontaneous' visits at her house in the country. Because there she claimed blatantly that it was her house, objecting to my boundaries on unannounced visits. She also did let her friend come over to live with us without consulting me. That's a part of my reasons for not living with her now.

It's all part of the overall ways she tries to maintain some control over me.

[braveSun]

Sorry Notwendy, I see our posts crossed. I was finishing writing my last one when you posted, so I was only trying to figure out what I was angry about, what came up first.

I will continue thinking about this.

I thank you for helping me keep open about my anger.

Brave

[Notwendy]

I understand that people can have different marriage relationships. But what is marriage anyway? It includes love of course but there is also some kind of expectations in marriage- finances are part of it, sex, companionship, affection, living together as a primary unit ( not second place to a friend) ( if that's the plan) with some sort of cooperation with household duties.  I don't know what your arrangement but I don't know if you expected this- separate residences, and hardly seeing each other. If that is the case, then it makes sense you are angry.

Does your wife prefer to live with her friend instead of you? Is this marriage to you? I don't think you can change her- you just need to be clear about what are the parameters of a relationship to you and at what point do you decide this is or isn't what you want in a marriage.

[formflier]

Full disclosure... I've only skimmed this.

One thing jumped out at me.  That you weren't going to speak up for money needs to "test" her or something like that.

How has that worked out?  Did she put money in?

For a basic need... .clear direct communication is my recommendation.

Some people are forgetful.  Perhaps she can put it on autopay or something... but if something doesn't show up that you are expecting and there is an agreement about... .I would do your part and reach out.

She can choose to do her part... or not.

Business legal final tomorrow... wish me luck!  I'll try to stop by after the final and read up more.

Good to see you again BraveSun!

FF

[braveSun]

Hey FF! Thanks for stopping by! Hope your final went well.

Well... All of this is true. I don't have a normal marriage as you see.
Not what I want. Lots on my mind about this, as I am going into this fall/winter with a feeling of relief for having decided to get a temporary job, and I hope to find more peace for once.

Tomorrow I have a big day, including a visit with her, if the weather is cooperating. So it's going to be interesting.

I am super tired tonite, I'm thinking I might be struggling with a bit of a flu. So I'm going to take care of myself and get some rest.  But I will come back on your posts.

Thank you for your support.

[formflier]

So... what's going on with a permanent job in the field that you really want?  Always good to grab whatever to bring in some money, yet my understanding is you have a profession that were wanting to get back to.


FF

[Cat Familiar]

The upside to you getting a job, any job, is that it eliminates a criticism that your spouse’s friends might level at you for being unemployed. Always a good thing to take away ammo from people who aren’t supportive of our best interests.

[Notwendy]

I don't think there is an exact definition of "normal" marriage. People get married for all kinds of reasons and have different arrangements. The question is- what is acceptable to you?  There are several issues- finances, the friend living with her, the living arrangements. It seems that it was OK for both of you to have separate residences,  but the finances didn't work as you thought you had planned.

What's the future goal? You mentioned the lease was up in a few months. Is the goal to live in one place together? Do you see that happening?

What were your hopes for moving to her country? Is citizenship desired - so you can permanently be here with her? I don't know where you are, but I think in the US a couple has to live together. Separate residencies would be a problem.

Are your job prospects limited in the country you moved to? In some cases, licences are not recognized, work permits are needed, etc.

Is it better for you to be in her country or back at yours? The reason I ask is that, if you don't see each other often, it may be better for you to seek employment in your own country and visit each other, rather than have a similar arrangement in her country.

I'm not asking you to dissolve the marriage. People have long distance relationships and you have one in a way, by living apart and not being able to see each other often. If this is the case, where would it be better for you to live and work?

[Harley Quinn]

Brave, this may be my interpretation but from what I read it sounds as though you don't spend nights together because you have an arrangement with your room mate that partners don't stay over and that the last time you visited your wife was in June.  Is that correct?  So if your wife has visited once or twice in between June and now, how long have you actually spent together in all of that time?  Are the visits for few hours within a single day, or does she stay in a hotel and spend a few days? 

My reason for asking is that if it's a day long visit then even living in another country to work and spending full weekends together once a month sounds like you'd be having a fuller marriage experience. 

I know that in some countries husbands may work away from home for 6 months to send money home for their wives and kids, then spend a couple of weeks to a month back with their family.  It has always struck me how difficult that must be for all concerned, yet I am sure that the time spent together is greatly valued.  I don't get the sense that the two of you make the most of your time together to enjoy and appreciate one another when you have these short visits.  I don't want to assume though.  Am I mistaken?

Love and light x

[formflier]

How did the visit go?

Finals are over (still waiting on grades)... .now tackling last 2 classes for fall semester.

FF

[braveSun]

Sorry for not posting earlier.  All of your posts have been useful, even though all at once it felt a bit overwhelming.  I had to process this for a while.  On the other hand, I have been quite busy with the job searches, volunteering, and now working to get a new roommate for December.  I like this more active, cooler time of the year. I have been walking a lot too, and the exercise does feel good.

Volunteering has helped me feel empowered. I get a bit of food security with that as well. This allowed me to experience a certain decrease in my anxiety. Yay!... It's true that being relying on other-than-her  feels safer. Experiencing bouts of grief, sadness, some stressful times too, but a bit less. Now the new feelings are anger and bouts of depression, with some more grounded more hopeful times in between. This is not a walk in the park!...

The visit with my spouse was nice. We had a better communication this time around. We had a start of a conversation regarding our visions, and she did listen to mine.

Now there is the idea that once I start having my own income, the level of stress between us will relax, and that things can be more manageable. I'm with her on this one, but for a different reason.

She expressed that she loves the apartment. Actually we did set it up together, and everything in here speaks of our joint efforts in making it a nice second home for us. While I am the one who mainly lives here, it's also a place I see as our  place. I still have a deep hope that we will be able to have some loving times together here, and that it will bring us back closer to our old ways. Even though we have both changed. I see trauma (happened) and stressful factors (can be mitigated with both our better understanding, some stable income from my part, some adjustments in her financial planning on her part). A newer version maybe, more adjusted to what we have now. Not that I have big feelings about the future. More like a one day at a time approach.

This is my vision so far. I am wanting to stay put, find work here, and a roommate for a while longer. I wish to be able eventually to earn enough to afford it by myself, or she will adopt my idea and decide to plan shared expenses and come visit at will. Roommates for transitions only. We didn't talk about a whole plan. I still don't believe it would work making plans like people do in normal situations. I am simply holding my own vision, working on creating more safety for myself. If things break, I'll cross that bridge if and only than.

It was already good to open up to talk about it from a more grounded perspective. With what we both learned from this year, she did seem warmer to the idea of having our place together. Even if only for that moment, it's valuable to me because we could share on memories we have together. Memories we both have them, not just me. This seems to give me hope. Anything that hints at the possibility of some healing gives me hope.

I did ask her if she had any health issues with coming over and she says no.

She did send money for half the Nov rent and some foods, which went for the bills. But I had to ask her. Sent an email, with exact amount needed, and we passed the 1st of the month unscathed. Lease is now month to month, which will go now until end of Dec, and extend if I find a new roommate. Less pressure on that now.

[braveSun]

I have to add that while it appears that the idea of having this apt as our  place did appeal to her, for me things are not completely defined, as far as what I want from the relationship. I really cannot think right now of moving back to my country, nor of moving to another place, as there is no money available for any of that, and it is more important to take things step by step, no matter the direction I want to take.

Like you said, Notwendy, she's OK with the way things work for her at her house and is not inclined to change that. But she's also been more sentimental about our good times together since she came back from that trip she took. She's more interested.

I, can only see that I need my own financial independence from her. I am more oriented to creating safety for myself. Than once I feel more secure, I will decide on the next step.

[braveSun]

FF, regarding the 'testing' I did to see if she was going to send money if I didn't ask. When she came she saw how my pantry/fridge was. She did offer to go shopping in a nearby store for pantry foods and a nice meal we shared together And she did send money for foods once she got back to her house. For my share of the rent I had to ask. And this month it was done with minimal emotional drama. I emailed, she sent money, we didn't talk about it over the phone, except just that at that particular time, she said that she didn't want to chat with me. I knew she had her feelings about it, didn't poke, let her have have her own space about it. We did talk on the phone for other tasks needed, but did not chat, until she did initiated it a few days later.

My conclusion for this test is positive. It confirms for me this hypothesis that she doesn't really know what it's like to be in my shoes. Once she got here she saw with her eyes, so she was more sensitized to my reality. There was no need to say much. Right there I am feeling better for having made this test. Because some of my fears were that she didn't even care at all about me. This proves something else being at play. It's important to me.

[braveSun]

I agree in part with Cat’s observation of taking some ammunition away. Than I am also not giving up my long term goals. I just can’t. I am careful to keep making time every week to keep up to date with my skills and trends in my field. This is  what keeps me going into a temp survival job. I have to believe for myself that I am not giving up my own goals.

Something interesting came up through all of that fuss.

Only once she had sent financial support regularly over an expended period of time, even though she kept saying this was the last time, only once I experienced that she did not divorce as she could have, threatened so, etc... , did I feel a sense of the true complexity of her emotional world. There I felt she also cared. In her limited ways, but she cared. Even though it has been taxing and nerve wrecking. There is something that happened there for me. She showed that she cared.

I think something similar is going on for her. Only once she saw that I could find roommates and reduce the expenses did she start to feel a bit better about the whole thing, even though she was kicking and screaming at all of it. Only once she saw that I did take some measures to reduce the financial burden on her did she see something else about me. That I care too.

Only once she saw how I had made curtains, upholstered a chair, refinished furniture, grew plants and shared stories over the neighbors, the change of seasons, the things I like about the city, the recipes I learned from the local culture did she get to experience my very own consistent commitment to what I say. In other words, she sensed that I did my best with what I had. I never was neglectful. Discouraged at times, depressed at times, but not neglectful. That accumulated experience does seem to bring more stability to the situation.

[braveSun]

Harley Quinn, thank you for your question. Yes indeed, we do appreciate our time together. Last visit in June was painful. And there was ST after that. This time around it was more hopeful. Possibly because of some pressures beginning to release.

I do understand the situation as being based on trauma, stress factors, and bad coping skills. Not that I see this as how it should be. It's not a normal situation. I appreciate reading on other ideas.

I have to give it a try. Because I see that she is making efforts at coping better with her own stress, being healthier. She has been sharing about that. Because also, I can see how me finding a job could be a catalyst for more self-reflection and a greater stability between us. But I don't have enough sense of safety yet to want more for now. Working somewhere else doesn't feel any better to me from where I am at right now. And the idea of living a truly long distance relationship doesn't appeal to me at all. I told my spouse that I am not interested in returning to only dating at this point. We will have to create our marriage into what we both want. Or let it go.
 
When I'll be ready for the next step, I understand that my spouse will be also ready for some next step. It is to be expected. Only over the next few steps will I be able to see if this can improve or not.

We did have normal types of agreements in the past, and we did enjoy each other very much in the past. Only that now, life is difficult at best. How could I have known?

[formflier]

BraveSun

I'm trying to take a step back and understand better how your circumstances affect you AND affect the relationship.

Perhaps another way of saying/asking this is how do your circumstances and actions affect your wife's perceptions of you.

No... .I'm not going to suggest that you do lots of gymnastics with your life "just" to please her.  What I do hope to discover, is places where you moving yourself "forward" also does good things for her perception (however skewed it may or may not be).

And... .I come at this with lots of empathy for people who's vocational pathway is non-traditional (since I'm disabled and struggling to find a path that works for me).  I used to be a guy who could consistently "hit it out of the park" in the vocational realm and for several years now I've been scaling back... a lot.  More bad than good.  (if helpful... I can go into more details)

I'm also interested in your story because your wife apparently does quite a bit of real estate... which I do as well (and yes... scaling back... .right sizing).  So... .I perhaps understand more how she looks at money.  Perhaps money and time is more accurate.

If she were to ask you how you moved yourself forward in the past 30 days towards your employment goal... .how would you present that?

Same question but over 180 days.

Then a softball question to you... ."how do you know you are on the right path?"  (again related towards your chosen field.

Then... .compare that with the same questions but regarding temporary employment.

30 days

180 days.

The time element is critical because my guess is she looks at things "over time".  I suspect that if I and others can coach you some on how to present your employment journey "over time"... .that it would resonate with her.  Discussions about last week or any one event... likely don't, because she struggles to put it in context.

Of course... .employment relates to money, which seems to ebb and flow as a relationship issue for you.

I'm going to hush for now... .and let you think about this.  Can we help you "craft" a "story" that might resonate better with your wife?

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Hi braveSun,
I understand how frustrating it can be when trying to find a job in your field of expertise. I know you moved to the city with great hopes of finding something in your field and it hasn't yet happened.

I like to look at all sides of a situation and try to see things from outside my own perspective. What occurs to me about your situation with your spouse is that she may be getting some pressure from her friends about your lack of employment.

I could imagine people saying something like, "Well, you've been paying for braveSun's apartment for over a year and she still hasn't gotten a job." Undoubtedly those types of comments would put her in an awkward position.

One way to alleviate that criticism from her friends would be to find a job, any job, and contribute to the cost of your rent. It's great that you found a roommate to help keep expenses down too.

I've had all sorts of wacky part time jobs from delivering flowers and phone books, tutoring, waiting tables, selling firewood I cut on my property, airbrushing and silkscreening t-shirts, writing stories for newspapers, non-profits, the local hospital, etc.

Yeah, doing these sorts of things can take a bit of time away from your job search, but at the same time, there's a tremendous benefit to one's self esteem, knowing that you're contributing to the family income. And even better, it will totally undercut your spouse's friends' complaints about you.

Something to consider... .

Cat

[braveSun]

Cat, that's what I am now working on. I can than move on into the next step in my career plans. I am also trying to find something I am good enough at to keep it for a little while.  I'm going on my 58th bd soon and I have to say this is a crucial time for my future at best. I sort of need to reposition myself, like to make enough to be able to pay for my half of the apt, than move on. Thing is, at my age, the way I look, the gaps in employment, the skills I need to catch up on, even for simple jobs like admin at $12 - $15/hr PT, it all takes a bit of skills development, if I am looking at something sustainable.

But I am working on that right now.

FF, your idea of finding a narrative (a story) to help my spouse understand better my situation is also something I've been looking into. I have started to discuss with her some of the key points in my employment situation, er regarding the transition I'm now in at my age, immigrating here, and wanting to work in my field. It will take some time to make connections, to volunteering places and to keep up with my skills. I will need to support myself doing something else for a little while longer, so I have recent experience in the area. I have gaps. I don't think going PT will hurt me if I keep doing projects in my field all along.

I am also having concerns with my current energy levels. Maybe the anger and depression I experience are affecting the slow progress for me. I am doing things for that too.

It's not an easy place to move from at all.

In the end, I don't know if my spouse will ever be able to truly understand my struggle. I am super careful with the type of story I am focusing on even just for myself. I need to keep a positive outlook. I need to boost my own morale at times. I have learned to stay away from trying to boost hers over time. One of the difficult effects of being in such situation is the negative outlook regarding my self-worth. I seem to need to find my place back into the mainstream, and from there things will fall into place much more easily. I hope.

I also struggle with negative self-judgements at times. Like I have self-doubts. Sometimes I feel a sense of worthlessness.  I know she thinks something is wrong with me for not working yet, and I don't let her park that belief in my mind consciously. But I have my own ups and downs. I know it's like that looking for work. That journey is already a roller coaster in itself. Without the extra layers of negative judgements and paranoid thinking she brings up. I have survival fears.

I must admit that reading your words FF was a bit triggering for me. I had to process the softball question carefully. Let's say I'm working on creating safety first, than I'll look again at all of it if I need to than.

Yesterday I ran into some articles online about the difficulties older workers face when making big changes at my age. I was surprised, but not reassured when I ran into a couple of articles saying that people of my demographic have been hurt the worst by the recent recession. Like having to accept to work for less than half of what one used to make, facing ageism in the workplace, etc.  One article dated 2015 was saying that people in my demographic were taking an average of 54 weeks to return to work, once they lost their job. That puts me in the average. We're in 2018, however, and stats might be different for this year.

The important for me is to stick to my plans, and to not wait for her understanding.

I could effect some sensitization last I talked with her, when I asked her what she was doing career wise at my age. Between age 48 and 60 she went back to school and did a PhD. Nothing banal.

I cannot count on her for going back to school however. This has been clearly stated in the past.  I may need a bit of training time, but I am a good study and comfortable with technology.  I know I can learn on my own to a certain degree, and I also know my limitations. Going back to school seems a bit too radical in my view point at this time.

She would have to trust me that I am capable to learn well enough online and through various volunteer projects. Once it's established, I might have facts to support a narrative I can work on. Until than, my goal is to get out of the depressive place I'm in.

[formflier]

Did you take the personality test... .or do you know what you are?   I'm an ESTJ (so please don't be shocked if I come across and "thoughtful" and "judgmental"!   

Can you expand more on the triggering aspect of the question?

Would it help to process your story on here first... .?

What does "safety" mean to you?  Wouldn't that mean being able to pay for things without the help of an erratic spouse?

FF

[formflier]

FF, your idea of finding a narrative (a story) to help my spouse understand better my situation is also something I've been looking into. I have started to discuss with her some of the key points in my employment situation, er regarding the transition I'm now in at my age, immigrating here, and wanting to work in my field. It will take some time to make connections, to volunteering places and to keep up with my skills. I will need to support myself doing something else for a little while longer, so I have recent experience in the area. I have gaps. I don't think going PT will hurt me if I keep doing projects in my field all along.
 

I had to cut my previous post short... .this Monday seems to be a busy and erratic day for me.

Anyway... .my suggestion is that you STOP discussing this at all with her.  Use us to "get your story right"... .the way you want it... .who you are and what you are about employment wise.

Then... .re-engage with a story/plan (whatever you want to call it).

Knowing what I know about pwBPD in general and people that are attracted to them (us)... .we sometimes like to "think out loud".  At least I do.  

The problem is we don't understand when it's emotionally a good idea to do that, so sometimes it works out well and sometimes it feeds them "ammunition" to use against us later.

They think we were making some kind of promise or final judgment and we were just mulling over a point or issue.

The critical part of this (aside from relationship aspects) is the ability to look at the plan you developed, compare that to the results you actually had from the previous week, month, half year (etc etc) and be able to make a wise decision about "if I am on the right path or not" or perhaps said in a less triggering way... ."is my plan working out".

Answering the question "is my plan working out" is a data driven part... .compared with your feelings about the same period of time.  They should generally match up.

Last thought.  With the booming economic results we have had lately, I would skip reading articles over a year old... .certainly over 3 years old.  The economy is basically at full employment, many places are having trouble filling positions.

I say this because you may want to jump at something not in your field... that may lead to a different career path, all the while keeping options open for your chosen field should something come open there.

Generally ageism stuff comes up when the economy/job market is contracting

FF

[Notwendy]

I recall that process- re-entering the job market after stepping out to raise kids- being older and having a huge gap on the resume.  I was overqualified for the positions in terms of education and people would look at me funny when they saw my resume.

I thankfully didn't have the concerns about survival you have as my H was going to support his family and we all lived in the same house. But there were so many benefits to working besides financial that I realized- I was valued at my job. It gave me a sense of accomplishment besides what I was doing at home. I wanted to get back into the work force.

What did help in the job search was that I did do volunteer work- and so had references and skills from that. I applied to any job I thought I could fit. I even got rejected from low paying jobs that I was qualified for and it felt humiliating. I kept on applying.  I felt it was essential to my sense of self to gain employment.

The job I have now pays less than my former jobs did, but I love my job and the benefits to me are far more than financial. Because of this, I would recommend to someone in a similar position to take a job, any job- as it is one step out of the low self esteem pit that being unemployed can be- and to do your very best at it. You can continue to job hunt while working. After a while on a job ,you will have experience and recommendations that can either lead to the next best thing where you are or a new job somewhere else. Look at how volunteering benefited you. That was a great step- and keep taking these steps.

[braveSun]

I recall that process- re-entering the job market after stepping out to raise kids- being older and having a huge gap on the resume.  I was overqualified for the positions in terms of education and people would look at me funny when they saw my resume... .

What did help in the job search was that I did do volunteer work- and so had references and skills from that. I applied to any job I thought I could fit. I even got rejected from low paying jobs that I was qualified for and it felt humiliating. I kept on applying.  I felt it was essential to my sense of self to gain employment.

I have worked all my life, I have gaps, and it's not because I had kids. I am older. These facts alone can make the subject of a book by themselves. Yes, yes and yes.

There are times I volunteered and I felt validated. There are times I volunteered, and the type of work I did was not congruent with the type of work experience I needed to do to attract the positions I wanted. Always useful, sometimes not in the way I needed it. It's true that I feel more appreciated now that I am volunteering. It helps for my self-esteem.  Now I am looking into internships in my field. There is an appli deadline for next semester on Dec 3rd and I am considering preparing for it. I will have to be bold with this as a re-entering candidate, and present my case with targeted portfolio pieces and a compelling story. Self-marketing is so big now. And some older workers have succeeded in securing professional internships, than got offered a real job. There I have to adjust and I have to find my 'personal brand' way... Not easy for me.

In temp jobs before there was a time I was even demoted.    I realized that I was either over or under qualified, if I can say, or I was not interested in investing in it as a career (different focus than what I had in mind, needing to upgrade some skills like typing, or some other type of software I am not used to) and possibly my supervisor was disappointed. This experience was humiliating, yes. It taught me the strong need to approach my career path as my own direction and trajectory and to cut through some expectations in order to keep at my own goals. Upgrading skills is something I rather do in my field, and when it's time to look at a new temp job, I need to see how my current set of skills can be enough, or with minimal upgrade. Not everything can go. At least not for financial stability. The survival needs add an edge. There is a fine balance to be held.

I thankfully didn't have the concerns about survival you have as my H was going to support his family and we all lived in the same house. But there were so many benefits to working besides financial that I realized- I was valued at my job. It gave me a sense of accomplishment besides what I was doing at home. I wanted to get back into the work force.

I sure do want to work. Having no kids, it's even more of an important part of my identity.

Notwendy, I remember your previous posts about it on my threads. It appeared like the good ol' side job story, which is for me something I had already done, not without a few bumps. I came here under the understanding that my spouse was willing and capable to support me to make a (calculated) jump into my own field. We have an history of doing creative work both of us, we both value our own creativity, and because some of that was work we did together, I expected that she was going to be behind me. It made sense.

But with the recent experience I've had being here with her, I believe now the focus is for me to regain my hope and my traction with my own path, not to wait for her approval (nor emotional support, nor financial backing). I've had too much adverse currents to cross lately. So it is  now that my needs for security are the ones to address first. Self-esteem and security, yes.

[Notwendy]

I realize our situations are different and your wife didn’t follow through on her agreement. I was posting to address the emotional /low self esteem aspect of this type of relationship and that a job can provide some affirmation and social contact with coworkers/clients which can help when relationships at home are not as affirming. I think it’s great that you are applying for an internship which can do all that and be a stepping stone to a job.

[braveSun]

Yes, I see it too.

One of the main issues for me is my own self-esteem. You have this right.

And having some validating experiences is a necessity with those relationships.

I can see how working outside of your home would become a vital part of your life. Especially with doing a type of work that you enjoy and feel confident that you are good at.

The internship is something that needs guts at my age. So I guess having volunteer jobs, and I hope a PT job as well will help me get my wind back. Always subject to the weather, as expected.

The progress with all these steps is slower than expected. It reminds me of having to row a canoe into very strong currents when you have to cross the river. With determination it's possible to get to the other side, but you end up way down the river, not at your destination, than you have to walk it back.


 

[formflier]

Hey braveSun.

How was Thanksgiving?  Any update on your relationship?

FF