Life is small, and I'm done wasting my time.

[Beneck]

The first part of this thread can be found here.

Hey guys.

First of all I'd really like to warmly thank both of you checking up on me, supporting me, and helping me keep a sharp mind. It's really helping me and I really appreciate it.

So as of today, it's been 4 weeks NC! Hurray!

While I still hurt a lot sometimes, I consider this an important milestone, and it's only going to get easier from now on. Life is small, and I'm done wasting my time. Sure, I love her and I miss her, but there are so many things to do and experience. I'm done wasting time; she (presumably) wants to be friends, and I cannot be her friend right now, so for now I should do my best to move on. I WANT her but I don't NEED her!

I am resentful right now, and in a way I recieve gratification by "controlling" the situation and being the one who has blocked her. Part of me wants to keep her blocked for as long as possible, as a form of punishment. Such thoughts are foolish and immature, but also human, though I suspect they will fade when the resentment dissipates. I think this also is a very reliable indication that I'm not ready to unblock her, much less talk to her right now.

Sometimes, I like to write down my thoughts in a notebook. It really helps in instances of strong emotional pain (such as when I make the mistake to use my alt fb account to peek at her changing her profile pictures :p).

At this point, I cannot wait to be "released" from my attachment to her. To be free once again. To be liberated. It's going to take a while though, and I'll have to take care of myself in the process.

Break ups suck, yes. But they also carry (I feel) substantial potential for self-reflection, adaptation, and improvement. And though I am in pain I welcome the new version of myself. Either you stagnate or you adapt; learn ;)

isnt it? triangulation, good and bad, is all around us. you and i are doing it right now

Ah yes! So, if I understand this correctly, I'm being vurnerable and you're listening! Correct?

we tend to learn the role we naturally navigate to in our family dynamics. i think supporting your mother (or other family) is a great value to live by, but with healthy boundaries. what did it look like in your case?

While it IS a great value to live by, there were instances where I had to comfort my crying mother, being 12 years old... .and I'm under the impression that something like that happening consistently is not optimal.

My mother had me (and my half-brothers) because she wanted to fill an emotional gap, as she had lost both parents and her older brother by age 17. IMO that's NOT a legitimate reason to have children and can create tons of problems (for the children). Our relationship is good, though I sometimes feel like I'm the adult rather her being the adult, of which I'm critical. But I'm also proud of her for what she's accomplished; she's done a lot of growing up, too!

 

check this out, its a fascinating, concrete example: https://thebowencenter.org/theory/eight-concepts/

This is actually pure gold in my opinion. I found it insightful to the point where I think it should be taught in schools. I think the examples presented here definitely apply to my case to some degree, and could perhaps explain why my work perfomance can be inconsistent or why I have greater than average needs for attention, intimacy and affection.

The concept of self-differentiation mentioned in the article made me realize that I'm not as self-differentiated as I could be. In the past, I have avoided doing what felt right to me in favor of what was easier, with the products of my work being sloppy. And of course, this heavily applies to ANYONE with BPD, who probably struggle to stay consistent to their internal values in fear of rejection and social isolation.

Of course, I've gotten better over the years, and lately I've been practising meditation everyday. As I understand it, self-differentiation involves looking inward to connect with your inner values, and then act in accordance to that. I think that meditation can help with that.

I also think it might allow me to become more efficient, more flexible and more resilient to stress. Thus; happier.

Great stuff.

 

it is human, and its a hard adjustment, no doubt. if it helps, space can be healing. it doesnt have to be forever any more than a cast for a broken arm.

Very good point. That's a very accurate metaphor.

 

its a very personal decision, but the best, most effective caretakers have good boundaries. they dont lose themselves. they support themselves, and they support those whom they care for, lovingly and consistently, but also firmly, and without losing themselves in the other. none of that is to say its easy, just to put it in perspective in terms of what "care taking" can mean.

I get what you mean. It's difficult. But is it rewarding? And sadly as far as I've read by checking out the various threads, this doesn't seem to be the case. I do not intent to dissuade anyone, of course, and as you've expectionally put it, it's a VERY personal decision. But it appears to me that being such a consistently good caretaker (that is, applying boundaries etc) is next to impossible.

I think good triangulation can really strengthen a BPD (and any, really) relationship. I was very lucky to have such a good "gf mom" (as she likes to call herself :p), as she did her best to support us, going as far to drive miles every sunday with a dislocated shoulder just so I could talk to my ex via FB.

But in the end, that was not enough; constant stress in regards to bad relations with the fellow patients and the hospital management constantly making changes to the date for the community placement put a lot of pressure on my ex.

In the end, she didn't tell her mother anything, and ended up breaking up with me. Her mother was taken aback, and suspected that she could have adviced to do so by the theurapetic team. Whatever the case, it was her decision and I respect it.

 

well, it sounds like youre thinking this through, and i think its important we lose the walls when we know that we no longer need them. but its also self aware to know that sometimes we do these things because our brain is creating those scenarios, and we want a reaction... .the Bargaining stage of grief can do that.

to answer your question, id probably continue to sleep on it, because im not sure whether  you unblock her tomorrow, or unblock her in a week, makes much difference. unblocking her sends a message on some level, and if you still need space, it may not be a message you want to send just yet. do it when you are prepared for, but not necessarily expecting, contact.

what do you think?

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

Now I think about it, this idea of mine definitely sounds like a manifestation of the bargaining stage, hoping that by unblocking her I could elicit a desirable reaction from her part.

I don't know when I'll lower my walls, but it'd definitely have to be when I no longer feel resentment, and perhaps when I no longer harbor unrealistic expectations. As much as I hope I could say otherwise, a happy marriage with her is highly unlikely.

Therapy is an excellent idea.  You are working hard at improving your self-knowledge, and therapy will increase your pace and get you to insights you might not reach on your own.

Exactly!

In the past, I had kinda thought of getting a therapist as taboo, in a way. For people with problems, yes, but not for me! I'm "healthy"!

However, recent experiences (to say the least   ) have made me feel a lot warmer to the idea. I think it's a great way to learn more about who I am and gradually emerge as happier, stronger, "more whole" version of myself.

Can you tell us a little more about the relationship dynamic with her that you'd want to change if you got back together?  A lot of the discussion in this thread has focused on her therapy, but what matters to you as a person making decisions about this romantic relationship or a future one is observable behaviors.  What about past behaviors/interactions of both of you in the relationship would you want to see changes in?

I think I really need to be to better able to pick my battles. Learn WHEN and HOW to be flexible, and WHEN NOT to be.

My ex, like other BPD people as far I've read in these forums, are the type of people where if an idea gets to their head, THERE'S NO REMOVING IT.

My ex, before being sectioned, had struggled with her eating. So as you can imagine, we were all concerned when she had announced she'd become vegan once out of the hospital. I spoke to her about it and expressed my concerns. She said it'd be fine and I told her it was her "duty" to prove to us all that she could follow a vegan diet that was properly nutritious, and that I was fine with her being vegan if she could eat properly.

In another instance, she was saying an ex of hers was planning a party for her once she'd get out of the hospital, where they'd get wasted. I expressed my jealousy and insecurity about that in a non-controlling way. She told me I had nothing to worry about and I took her word for it. And of course, I encouraged her to do that and have fun.

Like I said, I got her to take her medicine but telling her not to call me unless she had started taking them. She took them, and communication resumed.

After that, I'd ask her from time to time if she had been taking them, and congratulate her for doing so. But perhaps this wasnt' the best idea. Or the execution could have been better.

Before things went downhill, we had been quite intimate on the phone. However, as I was spending more and more time talking to her on the phone, plus work, I realized I'd have no time to study for the language test... .I wanted to move abroad and be able to see her as well. Additionally, a little bit of fear of engulfment (on my part) played its role here. I announced it the next day, expressing it as softly as I could.

She didn't take it well. She grew upset and avoided me for a week. She then called, saying she couldn't ignore me forever. I applauded for that, as well as letting me know what's going on. She said that she felt used (sexual abuse history) and that it'd take a couple of days for her to trust me again and warm up to me again. I was glad nonetheless, and gave her space.

Things were very good for a little while, then she grew distant again and then... .I got the dreaded phone call! OOF!

All the above highlight instances in which things could have been done better. My "mistakes", in conjuction with the stressful enviroment in the mental hospital and her desperate desire to be free again were probably catalysts for the breakup, and contributed to the BPD phenomenon of being "painted black", though not only did she not accuse me, but said I was a beautiful person blah blah.

In regards to her, she really needs to be in touch with her emotions. She has learned to go numb and feel nothing when the going gets tough, which results in her withdrawing. Shame and guilt from said withdrawing usually contributes to a vicious cycle that can lead to intense efforts for isolation, lack of emotion etc.

She needs to learn tools to adress the negative buildup, and start applying mindfullness so as to be in touch with her negative emotions, rather than locking all her emotional word away and becoming numb.

Finally, she needs to be able to clearly express her need for isolation. If I'm texting her and she doesn't want to talk, I'd like her to tell me and THEN ignore me :p

All of that may be unrealistic. I don't know. But I'd definitely like to see improvement in those aspects if we ever got together again. Though, I'm starting to think that the sheer magnitude of finess and management skills required to keep such a relationship stable are just not worth it; I don't think I'd be able to consistently keep up with all of that. Something to think about, I suppose.

Such as a god damn long post!

OOF

[Radcliff]

You are doing some very good work thinking things through here.  You described several instances where you were managing her, telling her what to do.  It goes with the territory as a rescuer.  Changing that dynamic would require a lot of growth from both of you.  If you stay separated, you'll need to learn to recognize women that "need" rescuing and move away from them in the romantic sense instead of towards them.  And you'll need to learn how to respect a woman's boundaries and not manage her.  If a woman pushes back on this, it may be a healthy sign!

RC

[Beneck]

You are doing some very good work thinking things through here.  You described several instances where you were managing her, telling her what to do.  It goes with the territory as a rescuer.  Changing that dynamic would require a lot of growth from both of you.  If you stay separated, you'll need to learn to recognize women that "need" rescuing and move away from them in the romantic sense instead of towards them.  And you'll need to learn how to respect a woman's boundaries and not manage her.  If a woman pushes back on this, it may be a healthy sign!

RC

Thank you for your feedback Radcliff.

I guess you're right and I fell into the common trap of rescuing, even if I thought I was avoiding it :p I guess "rescuing" has a lot of manifestations!

I suppose that there's a lot to think about.

I have a lot to learn.

[once removed]

I think this also is a very reliable indication that I'm not ready to unblock her, much less talk to her right now.

i agree. its good to examine and weigh all of our motivations. i think that might tell you that if you were to be back in contact, your resentment might just play out in other ways. the lesser motivations arent necessarily to be ignored or dropped, but to be worked through.

Sometimes, I like to write down my thoughts in a notebook.

i find nothing more therapeutic than writing. sometimes, its like offering yourself insight that you didnt know you had. when that happens, things can "click" in a healing way. we tap into a voice thats inside us, that can guide us, help us heal.

Break ups suck, yes. But they also carry (I feel) substantial potential for self-reflection, adaptation, and improvement. And though I am in pain I welcome the new version of myself. Either you stagnate or you adapt; learn ;)

i think that attitude will take you far. you reinvent yourself, or the pain just loses intensity overtime, and you stuff it down with a bunch of baggage, fears, and maladaptive coping mechanisms.

Ah yes! So, if I understand this correctly, I'm being vurnerable and you're listening! Correct?

yep. but importantly, in terms of bad triangulation, we are trying to avoid inflaming/polarizing the conflict.

My mother had me (and my half-brothers) because she wanted to fill an emotional gap, as she had lost both parents and her older brother by age 17. IMO that's NOT a legitimate reason to have children and can create tons of problems (for the children). Our relationship is good, though I sometimes feel like I'm the adult rather her being the adult, of which I'm critical. But I'm also proud of her for what she's accomplished; she's done a lot of growing up, too!

a longtime member here says "all roads lead to the Parent/Sibling/Inlaw" board. i would encourage you, at some point, to do some work there. its by no means limited to having a BPD parent, but exploring family dynamics and how they affect us.

would you say theres some resentment there?

could perhaps explain why my work perfomance can be inconsistent or why I have greater than average needs for attention, intimacy and affection.

i think, as you say below, we tend to be living our best lives when we are in touch with and living our values. a lot of us adopt coping mechanisms that even for a time may serve us, until they dont.

i would ask, are they greater than average needs, or are they unmet, and perhaps in some ways, unrealistic?

The concept of self-differentiation mentioned in the article made me realize that I'm not as self-differentiated as I could be. In the past, I have avoided doing what felt right to me in favor of what was easier, with the products of my work being sloppy. And of course, this heavily applies to ANYONE with BPD, who probably struggle to stay consistent to their internal values in fear of rejection and social isolation.

unrealistic expectations are the same thing as emotional immaturity, and emotional maturity is defined in terms of our level of differentiation. bowen suggests that we may with our emotional equals, or people with a similar level of differentiation. not exactly the same in how they manifest, mind you; for example, you may not struggle with emotional regulation in the same ways that your loved one does, but on similar levels.

more about differentiation here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=275714.msg12612781#msg12612781

 
I get what you mean. It's difficult. But is it rewarding? And sadly as far as I've read by checking out the various threads, this doesn't seem to be the case. I do not intent to dissuade anyone, of course, and as you've expectionally put it, it's a VERY personal decision. But it appears to me that being such a consistently good caretaker (that is, applying boundaries etc) is next to impossible.

its rewarding for many. bear in mind that BPD runs a wide spectrum, as do the loved ones of people with BPD traits. people with BPD traits have qualities that both attract, and overwhelm us. sometimes both parties, and the relationship itself, grow (85% of people with BPD go into remission). sometimes one or both parties no longer find the relationship fulfilling, and it runs its course. at the end of the day, how far our partners are on the spectrum plays some role, but its largely about the dynamics between both parties, and whether the relationship has, or can build "the right stuff". good boundaries, like living our values, are a lifestyle. another member here says that good mental health is hard work, and means at times making difficult choices. hard work, but by no means impossible.

 
I think good triangulation can really strengthen a BPD (and any, really) relationship.

one example of good triangulation is couples therapy. one example of bad triangulation is couples therapy. it all depends on the participants in the triangle, their motivations and self awareness, and whether theyre more interested in being "right" (fanning the drama and conflict) than resolving the conflict.

Her mother was taken aback, and suspected that she could have adviced to do so by the theurapetic team.

what gave/gives you that impression?

In the past, I had kinda thought of getting a therapist as taboo, in a way. For people with problems, yes, but not for me! I'm "healthy"!

i think most of us feel that to lesser or greater degrees. lets face it, the idea of facing ourselves, in front of another person, their analysis, their possible judgments, thats scary. we tend to think we know ourselves best. a good therapist, like, but not exactly the same as, a friend, builds trust with you, and helps you better see yourself, and in so doing, function.

I think I really need to be to better able to pick my battles. Learn WHEN and HOW to be flexible, and WHEN NOT to be.

if all this stuff has taught me anything, its that we do a little better each time. the stuff youre digging into will be with you for life.

My ex, before being sectioned, had struggled with her eating. So as you can imagine, we were all concerned when she had announced she'd become vegan once out of the hospital. I spoke to her about it and expressed my concerns. She said it'd be fine and I told her it was her "duty" to prove to us all that she could follow a vegan diet that was properly nutritious, and that I was fine with her being vegan if she could eat properly.

believe me, although i have not had a loved one in my life with an eating disorder, i can appreciate the concern in terms of recovery, over willy nilly ideas, over the impact it would have on all of you watching her potentially struggle.

yes, there was probably a better way to support her whether this was a willy nilly thing or not. i think a lot of us mistake firmness and accountability with "tough love" and enforcement.

In another instance, she was saying an ex of hers was planning a party for her once she'd get out of the hospital, where they'd get wasted. I expressed my jealousy and insecurity about that in a non-controlling way. She told me I had nothing to worry about and I took her word for it. And of course, I encouraged her to do that and have fun.

sounds reasonable.

Like I said, I got her to take her medicine but telling her not to call me unless she had started taking them. She took them, and communication resumed.
... .
Or the execution could have been better.

so just for example, having an accountability buddy, or someone to help remind us to take medication (im on hyperthyroid meds and i forget all the time) is good, but this can send a message that our affection/love depends on the outcome.

However, as I was spending more and more time talking to her on the phone, plus work, I realized I'd have no time to study for the language test... .
... .
Additionally, a little bit of fear of engulfment (on my part) played its role here. I announced it the next day, expressing it as softly as I could.
... .
She didn't take it well.

you ever watch Roseanne? im reminded a little of when Roseanne became pregnant and Dan was terrified. understandable, right? not to Roseanne. he expressed his fear, she became really bitter toward him and even gave him some silent treatment. a level of enmeshment is unavoidable in the healthiest of relationships, and one partners fears become the others. so Roseanne was terrified too, and thats how she reacted. eventually the two of them communicated and got on the same page but not before a lot of stress.

All the above highlight instances in which things could have been done better. My "mistakes", in conjuction with the stressful enviroment in the mental hospital and her desperate desire to be free again were probably catalysts for the breakup,

the big picture here was certainly probably bigger than any given mistake, your fears, or how you expressed them (which sounds reasonable).

In regards to her, she really needs to be in touch with her emotions. She has learned to go numb and feel nothing when the going gets tough, which results in her withdrawing. Shame and guilt from said withdrawing usually contributes to a vicious cycle that can lead to intense efforts for isolation, lack of emotion etc.

and while im sure this is true, and its helpful for you to see, the breakup may have been bigger than this too. its hard to say to what extent she did it impulsively vs thought it through, perhaps she was thinking short term/temporary, to what extent she may have been influenced, etc.

what do you think?

I'd definitely like to see improvement in those aspects if we ever got together again. Though, I'm starting to think that the sheer magnitude of finess and management skills required to keep such a relationship stable are just not worth it

i think all of this is important to take stock of in terms of realistic expectations, how fulfilling/healthy the relationship is for you, etc. id suggest though that relationship skills attract quality mates, and require us to be one.

[Beneck]

Hey guys 

Sorry for the delay in replying. I had really wanted to reply sooner, but couldn't get my thoughts together. But I think I'm ready now.

So it's been a little over 5 weeks now! And I'm feeling a lot better! I still get quite sad sometimes, but I make sure to face it head on and allow it to affect me. I do admit that I've become just a tad more cynical, and I do admit that I sometimes find life a little meaningless... .but I'm confident in my ability to not only get through this, but also learn from it.

Lately I have been practising using SET and have been consistently trying not to invalidate others. I does need more practise, but I'm finding myself getting the hang of it gradually, and I like it. I'm also trying to be mindful of good and bad triangulation at most times, and have even noticed some examples where it occurs in my life, some triangles in which I am a part of.

I got drunk on wine last week, and wandered into downtown, and cried more than I've ever cried in a long while. They say not to drink, and they right. Especially because most people drink to forget. In my case, it really helped me come to terms with the situation and just let it go; express it. And I occured to me that, all this time I had been holding back and it was affecting me. And I didn't know that I was holding back. But I was.

And this made realize that people with trauma, including but not limited to people with BPD are keeping it in and they don't know how not to do that. I might be incorrect, and even if I'm not this is just one factor and one way to look at it, but if it does play its role, I understand.

The thing is.

It is very difficult for me to admit it, but she was right. She did well to break up with me. I think that she realized that the situation that she was in wouldn't allow her to be the partner that she wanted to be, and that she wanted to focus on herself and get her life on track. And that perhaps it'd be unfair to "hold me hostage" when I could live life to its fullest while she was working on herself.

It's not that it wouldn't have worked, but it would probably be extremely draining for the both of us. It is very unpleasant for me to admit this... .but her decision makes sense, and she was probably right.

The way she's done things, we could reconnect in the future, either as friends or lovers. So ending things in a "high note", that is without the accumulation of resentment from both parties, makes a lot of sense. Doesn't necessarily mean we'll reconnect though, and I should be wary of "attaching" my hapiness to such at outcome in the future.

i agree. its good to examine and weigh all of our motivations. i think that might tell you that if you were to be back in contact, your resentment might just play out in other ways. the lesser motivations arent necessarily to be ignored or dropped, but to be worked through.

Absolutely. I have a lot of motivations here and there, like somehow getting her to reach out to me, or actually and truly move on etc. It's very interesting to see, that much like grief itself has many stages which replace one another with no particular order, so do the motivations, and that could be because they are correlated.

I think my resentment would definitely cause me to be more distant and have an "everything's ok" attitude. That is, being unable to admit that I'm hurt. And I think it would also make me behave in a childish way anyway. So it needs to fade before I can talk to her again.

a longtime member here says "all roads lead to the Parent/Sibling/Inlaw" board. i would encourage you, at some point, to do some work there. its by no means limited to having a BPD parent, but exploring family dynamics and how they affect us.

would you say theres some resentment there?

Yes, there is a bit of resentment, and I think me visiting that board is not a bad idea at all.

i think, as you say below, we tend to be living our best lives when we are in touch with and living our values. a lot of us adopt coping mechanisms that even for a time may serve us, until they dont.

i would ask, are they greater than average needs, or are they unmet, and perhaps in some ways, unrealistic?

I can say with absolute certainty that they used to be very unrealistic when I was kid; I wanted everyone to like me, for instance (though one could argue that is sort of to be expected from a kid anyway). Growing up, I adopted a "no-one owes me anything attitude", which I beleive to this day (though this outlook has changed quite a lot and important exceptions apply).

Nowadays, I do find myself sometimes longing for more contact that the people in my immediate cycle, but I don't mind too much. I think it might be a combination of slighlty unrealistic expectations and a tad greater need.

unrealistic expectations are the same thing as emotional immaturity, and emotional maturity is defined in terms of our level of differentiation. bowen suggests that we may with our emotional equals, or people with a similar level of differentiation. not exactly the same in how they manifest, mind you; for example, you may not struggle with emotional regulation in the same ways that your loved one does, but on similar levels.

To be completely honest with you, I've been guilty of having unrealistic expectations. I was expecting things to be hard work but... .I really wanted to give it my all and even marry that person. Considering the fact that she was in a mental hospital for the majority of our relationship, I was naive (or more accurately, in denial) of how giving she could be and whether this could work or not. So while I didn't have her symptoms, I guess the above does pinpoint to a not ideal level of differentiation.

All the same though, I fell I've learned a lot through this (and I still am). Also, this was my first relationship ever, so in a way I'm happy to given it my all (and she gave it her all too!) so as to have any regrets in regards to not trying hard enough. I think it was a good decision to go through with this, even if my expectations were unrealistic.

I guess it's safe to say that my level of differentiation has already increased

more about differentiation here: LINK

I tried to acces it! It says:

The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you.

Keeping secrets aren't we? :p

its rewarding for many. bear in mind that BPD runs a wide spectrum, as do the loved ones of people with BPD traits. people with BPD traits have qualities that both attract, and overwhelm us. sometimes both parties, and the relationship itself, grow (85% of people with BPD go into remission). sometimes one or both parties no longer find the relationship fulfilling, and it runs its course. at the end of the day, how far our partners are on the spectrum plays some role, but its largely about the dynamics between both parties, and whether the relationship has, or can build "the right stuff". good boundaries, like living our values, are a lifestyle. another member here says that good mental health is hard work, and means at times making difficult choices. hard work, but by no means impossible.

Thanks for the clarification. That does actually make me feel quite hopeful.

I do admit that the whole experience has made me a bit more cynical and pessimistic. On the other hand, we have to take into account that no-one visits bpdfamily saying "my relationship with my BPD partner is actually going quite well." (despite the Success Stories thread :p ). People (like I did, of course) come here when they have a problem, and that's what ends up being emphasized.

one example of good triangulation is couples therapy. one example of bad triangulation is couples therapy. it all depends on the participants in the triangle, their motivations and self awareness, and whether theyre more interested in being "right" (fanning the drama and conflict) than resolving the conflict.

That's very interesting actually, because I do remember reading articles that explained that sometimes couples therapy destroyed (or came close to destroying) couples :p

Good to know that about triangulation actually. I personally try to be as less interested in who's right or not as possible. So, great to know! And I'll keep doing that!

what gave/gives you that impression?

It was her mother's impression. I'm going to have to ask her to elaborate on what gave her that impression.

if all this stuff has taught me anything, its that we do a little better each time. the stuff youre digging into will be with you for life.

I actually feel like I'm going to do better the next time (regardless of whom it's going to be with) already. So yeah, her breaking up was undesirable, but I 100% feel what you're saying here and it does give me hope. And the thing is, breakups suck and the pain can be quite difficult to deal with... .but the pain doesn't last forever. The lessons DO though! I don't know about you, but I think that's a bargain ;)

you ever watch Roseanne? im reminded a little of when Roseanne became pregnant and Dan was terrified. understandable, right? not to Roseanne. he expressed his fear, she became really bitter toward him and even gave him some silent treatment. a level of enmeshment is unavoidable in the healthiest of relationships, and one partners fears become the others. so Roseanne was terrified too, and thats how she reacted. eventually the two of them communicated and got on the same page but not before a lot of stress.

I have no idea what that is :p Is it a show? But yeah, I understand that!

the big picture here was certainly probably bigger than any given mistake, your fears, or how you expressed them (which sounds reasonable).

and while im sure this is true, and its helpful for you to see, the breakup may have been bigger than this too. its hard to say to what extent she did it impulsively vs thought it through, perhaps she was thinking short term/temporary, to what extent she may have been influenced, etc.

what do you think?

I think you're (once again) correct, and the primary reason probably was that our relationship wasn't going to flourish under the current circumstances... .

Also I need to know what to do if she contacts me BEFOREHAND. How do I tell her I don't want us to be talking yet? This isn't very likely, and even if she did that she could do it through another account on FB I suppose. But I'll have to reactive my SIM card for calls from abroad soon and there's a small (very, very small, to be honest) chance that she would call me. What do I tell her without being too harsh and keeping my options open? :p

Thank you for the support!     

And sorry for the delayed response!

Also I have trouble putting a custom avatar. What's up with that? :p

[once removed]

It is very difficult for me to admit it, but she was right. She did well to break up with me. I think that she realized that the situation that she was in wouldn't allow her to be the partner that she wanted to be, and that she wanted to focus on herself and get her life on track. And that perhaps it'd be unfair to "hold me hostage" when I could live life to its fullest while she was working on herself.

i think it takes a lot of strength to see/reach this conclusion. does it do anything in terms of lessening the resentment?

I have a lot of motivations here and there, like somehow getting her to reach out to me, or actually and truly move on etc. It's very interesting to see, that much like grief itself has many stages which replace one another with no particular order, so do the motivations, and that could be because they are correlated.

some of what youre describing might be the "Bargaining" stage of grief, and the one i find most fascinating. its amazing the scenarios our minds will come up with, and try hard to direct us toward, in order to avoid/delay pain. its not only useful to identify, in terms of having a good road map to where we are, but if we step back from it a little bit, it is a form of progress in itself.

I can say with absolute certainty that they used to be very unrealistic when I was kid; I wanted everyone to like me, for instance (though one could argue that is sort of to be expected from a kid anyway).

i think i get what you mean. sure we all want to be liked and accepted, some of us more than others, and some of us in unique ways. for a lot of us, the idealization from our partners didnt just click with us because they were saying nice things about us, but because they spoke to those unique, deep down ways that we want to be liked/accepted/loved. it is enormously challenging, and painful, to see that, and to detach from it, but doing so is like breaking chains that bind us.

All the same though, I fell I've learned a lot through this (and I still am). Also, this was my first relationship ever, so in a way I'm happy to given it my all (and she gave it her all too!) so as to have any regrets in regards to not trying hard enough. I think it was a good decision to go through with this, even if my expectations were unrealistic.

ah, first love. youre not alone in this being your first relationship; at 21, it was my first "adult" relationship. there is so much investment, such a deep and exciting bond, so much heartache, and often such a strong belief and investment in the idea that love will prevail.

i think that youve handled it with maturity and grace. it says a lot about who you are, and who you will become.

I guess it's safe to say that my level of differentiation has already increased

yep. i forgot to add that our level of differentiation is not fixed in place. youll be light years ahead of your peers.

I tried to acces it! It says:

The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you.

here you go!

An individual's overall life functioning is linked closely to his level of emotional maturity or differentiation. People select ... .partners who have the same level of emotional maturity. Emotional immaturity manifests in unrealistic needs and expectations. ~ Murray Bowen, M.D

The concept of Differentiation of Self is the ability to separate feelings and thoughts. Undifferentiated people can not separate feelings and thoughts; when dealing with relationships, they are flooded with feelings, and have difficulty thinking logically and basing their decisions on that. This often manifests as unrealistic needs and expectations.  Further, they have difficulty separating  their own feelings from the feelings of others.

Differentiation is described in many ways in the following points:

1. Growing in the ability to see where and how I fit into my relationship, the position I hold and the power that is and is not given to that position.

2. Growing in the ability to be fully responsible for my own life while being committed to growing closer to those I love.

3. Intentionally developing, at the same time, autonomy and intimacy. In developing autonomy I set myself towards achieving my dreams and ambitions. In developing intimacy, I allow those close to me to see and know me as I really am.

4. Being willing to say clearly who I am and who I want to be while others are trying to tell me who I am and who I should be.

5. Staying in touch with others while, and even though, there is tension and disagreement.

6. Being able to declare clearly what I need and requesting help from others without imposing my needs upon them.

7. Being able to understand what needs I can and cannot meet in my own life and in the lives of others.

8. Understanding that I am called to be distinct (separate) from others, without being distant from others.

9. Understanding that I am responsible to others but not responsible for others .

10. Growing in the ability to live from the sane, thinking and creative person I am, who can perceive possibilities and chase dreams and ambitions without hurting people in the process.

11. Growing in the ability to detect where controlling emotions and highly reactive behavior have directed my life, then, opting for better and more purposeful growth born of creative thinking.

12. Deciding never to use another person for my own ends and to be honest with myself about this when I see myself falling into such patterns.

13. Seeing my life as a whole, a complete unit, and not as compartmentalized, unrelated segments.

14. Making no heroes; taking no victims.

15. Giving up the search for the arrival of a Knight in Shining Armour who will save me from the beautiful struggles and possibilities presented in everyday living.

To differentiate is to provide a platform for maximum growth and personal development for everyone in your circle of influence. It means being able to calmly reflect on a conflicted interaction afterward, realizing your own role in it, and then choosing a different response for the future. Not to differentiate is to fuse (the failure to become a separate person) with others and to place responsibility on others (or on situations, predicaments, and hurdles) for the way in which our lives develop.

These widely accepted theory were developed by Murray Bowen, M.D. in the late 1940s and early 1950s when he was a psychiatrist at the Menninger Clinic. After his time at Menningers, he moved to the National Institute of Mental Health, then to Georgetown University Medical Center and finally established the Georgetown Family Center in Washington, D.C.

Bowen's therapy is a process of increasing one's differentiation or ability to balance automatic reactivity and subjectivity with a factual view of oneself and others.


www.bowentheoryacademy.org/6.html

www.difficultrelationships.com/2006/03/25/bowen-differentiation/

www.psychpage.com/learning/library/counseling/bowen.html

I do admit that the whole experience has made me a bit more cynical and pessimistic. On the other hand, we have to take into account that no-one visits bpdfamily saying "my relationship with my BPD partner is actually going quite well." (despite the Success Stories thread :p ). People (like I did, of course) come here when they have a problem, and that's what ends up being emphasized.

i think like the stages of grief, coming out of a relationship a bit more cynical and pessimistic can be one common part of the process. its part of grieving and being emotionally unavailable to others, and in some part, at least for me, it can be a fear of not only trusting others, but even trusting ourselves. the silver lining is that the strength/skills/tools we gain build trust and confidence in ourselves, that allow us to be even more authentically vulnerable with others than we ever were before, which can make future relationships all the more enriched/fulfilling. its about saying "ive been hurt, but i survived. i know there is hurt out there, and its inevitable that ill be hurt again, and ill survive again, stronger than before, knowing there is so much greatness and reward out there, that requires some risk to obtain". i dont think any of that happens over night, though.

Also I need to know what to do if she contacts me BEFOREHAND.

well, lets try it out. what would you want to say?

[Harri]

Hi beneck.

This really struck me: 

I think my resentment would definitely cause me to be more distant and have an "everything's ok" attitude. That is, being unable to admit that I'm hurt. And I think it would also make me behave in a childish way anyway. So it needs to fade before I can talk to her again.

So many times I've played things out by pretending to be okay all the while filled with resentment.  It was an attitude I learned in my family, pretend everything is okay so they can't get me or I don't have to be vulnerable any more.  Not an attitude that works well in relationships, intimate or not.

Growing up, I adopted a "no-one owes me anything attitude", which I beleive to this day (though this outlook has changed quite a lot and important exceptions apply).

CAre to elaborate on your exceptions?  I ask because I have had the same attitude and only now am I beginning to see there are and should be must be exceptions to that.  Do you think this attitude was masking something for you?

[Beneck]

First off all: almost 6 weeks NC. Awesome!

I still miss her a lot, but it's easier to look at the silver lining more and more.

In fact, there have been instances where, playing a videogame or doing some other type of task, I had forgotten about her completely! It felt great!

I still think about her the majority of my time. But that is gradually going to change ;)

i think it takes a lot of strength to see/reach this conclusion. does it do anything in terms of lessening the resentment?

In a way it does but... .it's just difficult. I cried reading the words you wrote... .and I'm not saying that in a bad way. For me, crying works in a good way. It really helps me process the grief and I welcome it when it happens... .it just that it's so tragic, in a way. It's the death of potential. Of hope. Of a dream. Of what COULD have been, even more than what ACTUALLY was.

It really hurts. Saying goodbye to someone you love.

ah, first love. youre not alone in this being your first relationship; at 21, it was my first "adult" relationship. there is so much investment, such a deep and exciting bond, so much heartache, and often such a strong belief and investment in the idea that love will prevail.

"Love will prevail", no kidding!

I think this being my first relationship makes this specific breakup especially painful but also crucial to my maturity and growth. And I think all of this hurts extra hard because I'm also mourning what I used to be BEFORE the breakup.

I used to think that if 2 people love each other, respect each other, care for each other and really try, things are going to work out, no matter what.

I was naive. And that's not bad. It was the naivety of someone inexperienced who wanted to love and be loved. And now, having realized that my view and understanding of the world was innacurate, one of my core beliefs has been invalidated. As a result, I have changed. And I cannot go back to who I used to be. I'm more of an actual adult now, and I feel like I've grown tremendously in the span of these (almost) 6 weeks. That's good. But it also is kind of sad.

There's this song I listened to on the radio whilst I was hiking somewhat recently. And one of its verses went: "Those who have loved are not that innocent." I understand now.

i think that youve handled it with maturity and grace. it says a lot about who you are, and who you will become.

It means a lot, coming from you. Thank you.

yep. i forgot to add that our level of differentiation is not fixed in place. youll be light years ahead of your peers.

It was kind of obvious that it's not fixed, to be honest :p

And once again, thank you.

here you go!

Wow, this is pure gold! I'll definitely try to keep all of these in mind and have them as my goal.

I think this list is very interesting, but to me, in a way, it's like the NEXT STEP after the adage to "know thyself". In a way, I think there's a lot of overlap, but what this list does, in a way, is to analyze and make clear WHAT IT MEANS to know yourself, in a way. Great work.

Do you have any books to recommend in terms of self-differentiation and the Karpman Drama Triangle?

it can be a fear of not only trusting others, but even trusting ourselves

Absolutely! Right now, for instance, I trust myself less in terms of opening up to others, keeping boundaries, finding a suitable partner, not pushing someone away (despite the fact that my ex left for reasons that had little, if anything to do with me) etc. It will take time to reverse that, but I am confident that myself will prove me wrong ;)

9. Understanding that I am responsible to others but not responsible for others.

This really struck a chord with me.

One day, while I was walking around town, contemplating the breakup, a realization hit me.

I MUST assume responsibilty for myself.

We are all responsible for ourselves. Those who do not assume responsibility for themselves will noy only end up hurting themselves, in the end. Sure, before they hurt themselves, they might end up hurting other people in their lives, mostly those that love them. But ourself is the only thing we can never truly run away from. Sooner or later, ourself and our maladaptive patterns will catch up to us and affect our attempts for happiness and stability.

It is difficult, but we have to be brave and honest with ourselves, and face ourselves when we must. And the sooner we do that, the better!

What do you think?

well, lets try it out. what would you want to say?

If she were to call, I think it would be for the best if I was neither happy-go-lucky (as if to show I don't care she left me, but it would be phony) nor negative/miserable (because I'm hurt because of her and I'm not in the mood to talk to her). I think being neutral would be the best; that is, not to "wear my heart on my sleeve" but to also not give her ANY ego boost. Not that she'd call for that, as I genuinely think that she cares about me.

So, neutral. I'd say that I'm ok and I'd ask about the placement in the community. I'd express appreciation for the fact that she's doing well.

Then, to limit the conversation, I'd tell her that I'm at a point in my life where I'm very busy and I'm looking forward to investing in my future.

If she asks if I'm still going to migrate to her country, I'd keep it vague and say something like "probably".

If she asks If I'm dating someone, I think I'd like to say that that's personal and I'd rather not tell her.

If she apologizes, I'd like to tell her that it's ok and that it's a good opportunity for both of us to invest in our futures and go on with our lives.

If she says anything about meeting up in the future or being friends, I'd like to say something along the lines of "We'll see when things settle down as I'm very busy etc etc"

In short, be graceful, be thankful, but keep the length of the call to a minimum and reinforce boundaries.

Any ideas? :p

Also, Once Removed, I'd like to personally thank you for posting in my thread and helping me out.

Believe it or not, you've really helped not only  go through this, but also rip greater benefits from it. And I've noticed that, in general, you don't exactly try to help people; you help them help themselves :p That's kind of the point, I've realized, and I think I'd like to do the same. Reading your responses in other threads help, as well as the questions you decide to ask, though I should be cautious not to blindly copy but ASSIMILATE what works for me. In short, I'm trying to learn from you, as well as others.

Feeling extremely lucky that I'm living in 2018 when bpdfamily and other online resources exist. I'd make a guess and say there must have been not as many resources when you broke up with the person with BPD that brought you here in the first place.

At any rate, thank you for helping me out. And I guess that, in a way, right now, I'm helping you, help me, help myself! Hahahahahahahaha!

Hi beneck.

Hi Harri! First of all, I'd like to thank you for helping me out with my avatar problem, and for posting here and sharing your insights with me

This really struck me:  So many times I've played things out by pretending to be okay all the while filled with resentment.  It was an attitude I learned in my family, pretend everything is okay so they can't get me or I don't have to be vulnerable any more.  Not an attitude that works well in relationships, intimate or not.

You're absolutely right! This is not an attitude that works well in any relationship. It took me a while to figure that out, to be honest.

When I was younger, I had a lot of trouble accepting and asking for help. Nowadays it is FAR easier. If I am struggling or if something troubles me I'll discuss it.

In regards to my intimate relationships, when me and my ex got together I REALLY wanted it to last. Desperately so (first love yadda yadda). So I searched online and read tons of psychology articles on relationships.

My ex was depressed and was struggling with her eating. So, initially, I'd look up advice on how to support your SO if he/she has depression or anorexia (etc). But eventually my interests branched out in a more broad direction. That's how I learned that it's OK to be vulnerable with your partner.

It wasn't my ex's first relationship, and she was very delicate with me. I was open and vulnerable to her, and she reciprocated. Despite her shortcomings, she supported me as much as she could and I NEVER regretted opening up to her. In fact, l loved to have her comfort me in my times of need, so I could "get back into the game", so to speak.

HOWEVER in regards to the present... .she's my ex. I have other people to turn to. She would be the last person I'd turn to, even if I was dying

So yeah, my resentment will definitely prevent me from being vulnerable to HER. I think that's ok! But that resentment needs to fade or I'm going to be very jarring and jerky towards her, and possibly even give her mixed signals. She deserves better than that.

CAre to elaborate on your exceptions?  I ask because I have had the same attitude and only now am I beginning to see there are and should be must be exceptions to that.  Do you think this attitude was masking something for you?

Of course.

My exception to this are my family and friends. They don't "owe" something, per say, but in a way, they "owe" me to LISTEN to me. They are not here to solve my problems, but in a way they're here for me to talk to them and gather strength/support so that I can tackle my problems on my own ;)

[Beneck]

I'd also like to add; being dumped by her is WAY BETTER than me dumping her. Sure, it hurts, but at the end of the day, the decision has been made for me, and all I can do is accept it.

For her, it's a different story. Sooner or later, she's going to have doubts about whether she did the right thing or not ;)

At the end of the day, being the best I can be and finding happiness is my ultimate "revenge" ;)

[Harri]

Hi Beneck.  So, I have an important question for you.  When you say your screen name do you pronounce it as Ben eck or Be neck?  Okay, now the important stuff is over... .

About your avatar, I have been reading the thread and I think I may need to call in the big gun soon to check things out.  Hang in there. 

Once Removed is a pretty wise man and I am glad he is helping you here.  I always get something out of his posts as well. 

HOWEVER in regards to the present... .she's my ex. I have other people to turn to. She would be the last person I'd turn to, even if I was dying

  Yes!     Sorry, that made me laugh.  I hear you.  Limits, boundaries, clean cuts.  Anger, resentment, they're just feelings and if you use them to your advantage and in a positive way (like you are) they will serve you well and in time will turn to something else.  It is good you are being considerate of her, but take care of you as well.  When I split with my ex (well, he dumped me a while back now) I used all of that along with my stubbornness (a skill of mine ) to my advantage and I do not regret it.

Family is good if they can be supportive without smothering or invalidating so if you have that I am very happy for you.

I think you are doing very well Beneck. 

[Radcliff]

it just that it's so tragic, in a way. It's the death of potential. Of hope. Of a dream. Of what COULD have been, even more than what ACTUALLY was.

Beneck, this really resonated with me.  As I was describing my grief over the loss of my marriage, my therapist made the exact point that you have here.  It made it a little easier to let go.  It is still very, very hard, though.

RC

[once removed]

playing a videogame

did somebody say video games? whatcha playin  

It's the death of... .

its grief. it is very tragic. there is a very real loss, or losses. it does hurt, and in ways that like you described, cut to our core; its something no one ever wanted to do, and at the bottom of our hearts deeply fear. i think one aspect about relationships/breakups that can complicate things is that there is the death of all of these things, and yet the person we are grieving is walking. that always messed with me.

I used to think that if 2 people love each other, respect each other, care for each other and really try, things are going to work out, no matter what.

i still think a lot of this is true, and you need not let the idea go entirely. i do think things dont necessarily just work out no matter what. things like irresolvable conflict, major and irresolvable differences in values, two people growing apart or one person growing while the other isnt, all of these things can kill relationships. i also think that the best, healthiest relationship youll ever have will still take work, nurturing that love, respect and care, growing it, compromising out of love, etc.

thats not to dispute your original point about letting go of ideas. i think to mature and grow, we do have to let go of old ideas that no longer serve us, and adapt. love can prevail sometimes. but its about evolving our love and our ideas around it.

Do you have any books to recommend in terms of self-differentiation and the Karpman Drama Triangle?

i didnt, but i dig your enthusiasm, and they do exist.

this is written by karpman himself: https://www.amazon.com/Game-Free-Life-definitive-Compassion/dp/0990586707

this is the KDT official website: https://www.karpmandramatriangle.com/

this is a book based on bowens research/findings:
https://www.amazon.com/Differentiation-Self-Family-Systems-Perspectives/dp/0415522056

and this looks like a good book on transactional analysis (where both concepts apply) and the relational patterns we pick up from childhood: https://www.amazon.com/Im-OK-Youre-OK-Thomas-Harris/dp/0060724277/ref=pd_sim_14_5/138-7335723-3189018?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0060724277&pd_rd_r=e581c2a5-ed46-11e8-a1cb-bd18f79b5821&pd_rd_w=95QMs&pd_rd_wg=Plvwa&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=18bb0b78-4200-49b9-ac91-f141d61a1780&pf_rd_r=8YEEVY07282W29G8PHST&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=8YEEVY07282W29G8PHST

It is difficult, but we have to be brave and honest with ourselves, and face ourselves when we must. And the sooner we do that, the better!

i think youre right. i spent a lot of my life believing and fearing that deep down there was something fundamentally wrong with me and rejectable about me. those kinds of fears can rule us in all sorts of maladaptive ways that become like self fulfilling prophecies. i dont think those sorts of fears are true for anyone, really. i think its more like bad manners. if someone invites us to a party and kicks us out because we are rude, its not that we are a permanently, deeply flawed human being. we just need better social skills! what defines responsibility to me is to go from "i am the problem" to "i am the solution".

regarding if she calls... .

it sounds like you would effectively answer the door, not invite her in, say hello, good to see you, and gently close the door. is that about right? theyre all reasonable and graceful but guarded responses if closing the door is what you want to do. is it?

I think I'd like to do the same

truth is, theres a lot in it for you, if you do. they say "always a teacher, always a student". i help others partly because i remember the extreme pain i went through myself, and want to pay forward the way others helped and supported me in my darkest hour, but long after that, im still learning lessons from the relationship. helping others keeps me sharp, teaches me more about people and human nature, and more about resolving conflict in some really, really challenging situations, and in turn, i can apply that in my own life. its invaluable to find a community that helps you grow, and so rewarding to be a part of something bigger than yourself.

cool avatar by the way  

[Beneck]

Hey guys!

Thank you so much for your replies!

I'll be going for a week-long vacation tomorrow and I could honestly really use it!

I'm going to reply to you guys in full later after I get back!

Thanks for all the support, and I'll see you guys in a week ;) 

[Harri]

   Enjoy the break!  Thanks for letting us know.

BTW... .cool and edgy avatar!  

[Beneck]

 Enjoy the break!  Thanks for letting us know.

It's the least that I can do. You guys have been here for me.

Thank you.

BTW... .cool and edgy avatar!  

Teleports behind you
Nothing personal, kid 

[Beneck]

Hey guys!

So I\m not at home though (though will probably be back rather soon) but I found an internet cafe and couldn't suppress my need to write.

It's been 7 weeks of NC as of now.

I made the mistake earlier today and went around the block to peek at my ex's profile, and was hurt notably, though not as much as in the past. I guess I never learn... .I'm drawn to her like a moth to a flame, heh ;)

The hurt was building up all inside me. I took a very long walk to make myself feel better and think about things. Maybe this isn't a bad thing after all, and this could in fact be helping me confront and process my hurt.

So, I have an important question for you.  When you say your screen name do you pronounce it as Ben eck or Be neck?

Be-neck! :p

About your avatar, I have been reading the thread and I think I may need to call in the big gun soon to check things out.  Hang in there

And thank you for helping me out with my avatar!

Anger, resentment, they're just feelings and if you use them to your advantage and in a positive way (like you are) they will serve you well and in time will turn to something else.  It is good you are being considerate of her, but take care of you as well.

Again, thank you for the compliment!

I totally hear what you're saying here. However, I'm trying not to overdo it, in a way :p while I do feel anger and resentment towards her (and it's completely natural) I'm trying to be honest with myself and see the situation as it is. That is, not to conveniently blame her for everything, even if that would make things (emotionally) easier.

But like I said I totally hear you.

Like I've said, I'm quite a selfish person in these kinds of things. I know that my ex could use my support right now, but I absolutely cannot do that. It would be dishonest to myself and really hurtful. She is, sadly going to ave to deal with the consequences of her actions.

And I do not mean that in a punishing, vindictive way. She didn't lead me on and I really appreciate that. And besides, as much as I love her, do I really want to be with someone who doesn't want me back?

But no matter how much I admire and respect her, I refuse to talk to her any sooner that it would be healthy for me to do so.

And I totally agree with you in regards to these emotions turning into something positive. In my personal experience, the positive "flip side" of anger is the will to live/survive and go out and about ;)

Sorry to hear about things not working out with your partner. But good to hear you've managed to use these emotions positively!

I think you are doing very well Beneck. 

Thank you. I try. I still have a lot to learn.

Beneck, this really resonated with me.  As I was describing my grief over the loss of my marriage, my therapist made the exact point that you have here.  It made it a little easier to let go.  It is still very, very hard, though

Yeah, it is!

I realized it was completely true, reading in another forum/thread on the internet about breakups. Really helped me process the whole deal a little better.

did somebody say video games? whatcha playin 

Morrowind! :p

It's from the creators of Skyrim (but in 2001) if you're not familiar with the game :p

i think one aspect about relationships/breakups that can complicate things is that there is the death of all of these things, and yet the person we are grieving is walking. that always messed with me.

Very good observation. Definitely. And in way, while it'd be obviously worse if they had died, it'd be in a way easier to deal with. Less vague.

Yet, I speculate we can learn to deal with breakups better each time, much like we learn to operate better within relationships. That thought gives me hope.

i still think a lot of this is true, and you need not let the idea go entirely. i do think things dont necessarily just work out no matter what. things like irresolvable conflict, major and irresolvable differences in values, two people growing apart or one person growing while the other isnt, all of these things can kill relationships. i also think that the best, healthiest relationship youll ever have will still take work, nurturing that love, respect and care, growing it, compromising out of love, etc. 

I suppose my newfound pessimism got the best of me once again. I understand what you're saying, and now I see that my outlook was a little bit too dramatic :p (justifiably so, though)

i didnt, but i dig your enthusiasm, and they do exist. 

Holy f****** s*** the first 2 are so expensive what the hell! :p

Will DEFINITELY get the last one at some point though! Maybe I could even do a review of it and post it here in the forums ;)

we just need better social skills! what defines responsibility to me is to go from "i am the problem" to "i am the solution".

Good point!

it sounds like you would effectively answer the door, not invite her in, say hello, good to see you, and gently close the door. is that about right? theyre all reasonable and graceful but guarded responses if closing the door is what you want to do. is it?

I've given this quite a lot of thought.

The problem is that the best that I can do (right now, anyway) is: "I'm not sure"

If she calls before I'm ready to talk to her, I definitely want to close the door.

The problem is that I will always have hope, and I think that's a bad thing.

No matter how much I love her, deep in my gut I feel that it's never going to properly work between us. I feel that in a way, I must be vigilant against her, guarded, as in to resist the temptation to get back with her, should the opportunity present itself.

I do realize that if I close the door, she might never knock again.

I think I can live with that.

truth is, theres a lot in it for you, if you do. they say "always a teacher, always a student". i help others partly because i remember the extreme pain i went through myself, and want to pay forward the way others helped and supported me in my darkest hour, but long after that, im still learning lessons from the relationship. helping others keeps me sharp, teaches me more about people and human nature, and more about resolving conflict in some really, really challenging situations, and in turn, i can apply that in my own life. its invaluable to find a community that helps you grow, and so rewarding to be a part of something bigger than yourself.

You're right about all of that, and I've already seen ways in which this activity has benefitted me. I just wish I'd post more, but I don't always feel like it or feel I have something substantial to contribute. Maybe I shouldn't be so hard on myself :p

cool avatar by the way 

Thanks

That's about it, for now.

I'm sure that after posting this, I'm going to come up with things I forgot to mention.

I think that's ok.

Bottom line is: I love her and I miss her. But I'm doing a lot better. Life is worth living.

Thank you for the support you guys.

I'll see you soon   

[Harri]

Hello Be-neck!   

About your avatar... .all I did was shout Help!    But you are welcome.

Overall it sounds like you are taking a balanced approach to healing.  Allowing yourself to feel without getting overwhelmed and really take care to notice where you are emotionally.  It is not easy to do that.

Like I've said, I'm quite a selfish person in these kinds of things. I know that my ex could use my support right now, but I absolutely cannot do that. It would be dishonest to myself and really hurtful. She is, sadly going to ave to deal with the consequences of her actions.

I don't see anything selfish here.  It is all about knowing where you end and begin in relation to another:  differentiation. 

Thanks about my ex.  We broke up a long time ago and I am more thankful for the experience with him than upset these days.

I'm glad you took the time to check in with us.

Take good care B-neck ;)

[Beneck]

Thank you Harri. It means a lot.

Yeah, it's very difficult sometimes, definitely!

I suppose I've always viewed as being able to say no and take care of myself as being healthily selfish. But yeah, I guess it's not selfish in the classic sense

Trying to do the same with my ex as well. I have a lot of beautiful memories and I'm grateful it happened. Glad you're leaning more towards being thankful. How long has it been, if you don't mind me asking? As for me, the immediate hurt will last up to 6 months MAX I think, but she will be on my mind for longer than that, I think. We'll see! Detaching is a difficult journey and I still hurt a lot sometimes but it gets easier and easier!

I actually envision my name being pronounced as Be-neck, where the "be" is pronounced as in the word "bell" :p Seriously though, thank you for taking the time to ask me how my name is pronounced :p

You take care too! And thank you!

EDIT: Also, can we move this thread to the detaching board? :P

[Harri]

Hi again.  Okay, well, names are important right 'beh neck'  ;)  New England USA here

Now you surprised me with your healthy selfishness comment.  I was all set to 'lecture' you and reassure you.  haha  It is good that you can see things that way.  I am used to having to convince myself that selfish is not always a bad thing.  That brings me to your question... .

I only briefly posted about my ex when I first came here.  He has what I now see as more narcissistic characteristics with some BPD behaviors he got from his FOO (family of origin).  He dumped me back in 2009 or so but at the time I was so involved in other big stuff going on in my life that I shut down and did not process stuff for a very long time nor did I have the skills to do so.  I have been learning them here and in therapy (but mostly here).  I was diagnosed with PTSD due to childhood abuse so lots of stuff with my ex comes up for me still plus I have my own not so great behaviors to work on <--- that is my primary focus here.  I can see how and why I was drawn to him though.  Interlocking wounds do not make a good relationship though we were together 7 years.  I don't give up easily even when i should.  

Thank you for asking Beneck.  

I am glad to hear that detaching is getting easier and easier for you.  Keep working on it.  The work you do here will pay off in other areas as well.  

Take care.  

PS. just saw your request to move this thread to detaching.  Sure I will do it now. 

[once removed]

Morrowind!

i own it. i just never got very far because i couldnt figure out how to use a weapon or fight. a lot of people consider the elder scrolls series to be the spiritual successor of the ultima series (PC), and me and ultima go way back. i might pick it up again, but ive got a big backlog of games to beat.

the positive "flip side" of anger is the will to live/survive and go out and about

definitely. its not unlike anxiety. anxiety can shut us down, or it can drive us to stop procrastinating, or to make a decision, or... .

and all of these emotions, when examined, can tell us something. what are you angry about?

If she calls before I'm ready to talk to her, I definitely want to close the door.

do you want this to happen on some level?

I just wish I'd post more, but I don't always feel like it or feel I have something substantial to contribute. Maybe I shouldn't be so hard on myself :p

maybe  . youre learning a lot. the more you apply what youre learning, the better you learn it. the karpman drama triangle, for instance, applies in virtually all conflict... .the boards are full of really challenging conflict. people on Detaching are hurting and need hugs and an ear. reaching out can build up your support network.

[Cromwell]

Very well done Beneck

The first couple of months NC were no doubt the most difficult for me, it then got easier.

Your thoughts feelings and habits might be all over the place at times, its a readjustment phase and I wonder how much your thoughts and feelings might change or make revelations when there is more space to reflect than might not have been so easy to do whilst still together.

[Radcliff]

Beneck, welcome back!  I'm impressed with all of the heavy lifting you're doing to process, heal, and learn.  Here's to hoping that your efforts will be rewarded with much healthier future relationships.

RC