Help with BPDgf giving me silent treatment PART 2

[Harri]

Hi Itsmesnap I too am one who likes to roll deep and often gets all tangled up.     I don't think you are tangled though.  You have been sharing a lot of important stuff here and working on it all with Once so again, I don't see you as tangled.  

I did read your other posts and I think part of what is missing here, though you mention it, is the impact your parents and grandmother had on you growing up.  A work-a-holic father with anger issues and an impulsive mother and a possibly BPD grandmother is a lot to deal with.  The thing is, a lot of the behaviors of our parents can affect us, even if they are not directed towards us or if certain things are kept quiet and hidden.  

Kids, even infants, can sense tension and stress and it affects them greatly.  The feeling of depression, tenseness and anger is easily sensed by kids.  They may not have the words for it but they can feel it, they know something is wrong.  It is possible that you were raised in an invalidating environment too.   All of this can add up to emotional neglect or in the worst cases emotional abuse.  I swear I am not trying to say anything bad about you or your parents.  But (!)I do think this may be a missing piece.

You have mentioned these things in passing in your posts and based on that, on some level, I assume they are significant to you when trying to work on relationship issues with your girlfriend.  I could be totally off though.  

The past influences the present often in ways we can't even see right away.  I know you know that though as you mentioned working on some of your own behaviors previously.  

If it matters, I spend most of my time over on the Parent Sibling and In-Law (PSI) board talking about this stuff.  I can relate very much to not having intimate relationships.  I have had one long-term relationship that was a disaster and that was it.  I also close off, but for me it is dissociation, and I was raised by parents who were dysfunctional in their relationship.  I think all of that is what made me want to jump into this great thread you have going with Once.  

I can relate to a lot of what you talk about here.

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[itsmeSnap]

Hi Harri, thanks for stopping by.

I think part of what is missing here, though you mention it, is the impact your parents and grandmother had on you growing up

I mention it in passing as part of answering questions about my background as Once removed requsts.

I mentioned I know these issues and have worked "successfully" on them with my dad in particular. We're in very regular contact due to the family business so I've had the time to deescalate and preempt his flareups. He has picked up on a lot of my own concerns because I've let them know about it and asked to clarify (even if not on the calmest terms); having him realize and him needing to explain makes him see the situation for what it is, an "overreaction".

So next time it happens, I cue him to it, he pushes a bit but realizes the issue I have with it and lets go and we can go back to baseline.

My grandma unfortunately passed away when I was young and we would not visit often, once or twice a year, she lived very far away so any " major influence" she might have had on me is either through my dad or from the stress my mom might have had before/right after I was born.

Interestingly mom is impulsive but also caring to a fault and I can see I picked that up from her. A major issue is she would spend money she "didnt have" (as in, rack up debt) helping family and friends in times of need, and I know they actually needed it, but she went beyond her capacity and that strained finances and would cause my dad to get angry; I won't say he was wrong to be angry, but he did take it too far and grudge over it for a long time, boiling over and into other "minor issues".

I assume they are significant to you when trying to work on relationship issues with your girlfriend.

They are in the sense that I want to let you know my background and how I've learned to manage tough situations, and how it relates to how I've managed my gf's initially harsh reactions and "improved" how we interact.

Like I tell once removed, I can't work on what I don't know, and from posting on other people's threads I notice having a complete picture of the situation makes it easier to come up with a plan, that's why I'm also laying all the cards on the table here.

I swear I am not trying to say anything bad about you or your parents.  But (!)I do think this may be a missing piece

Haha stop walking on eggshells Harri 

I get your point, and with my parents I have managed to keep things stable enough. I do notice we're not as close as a "model family" but I know there's also no such thing as a "model family", everyone has their issues.

I mentioned my parents are divorcing and they see our recent interactions through that lens, considering " what I'd tell/do with the other" or what any decision means for the divorce process. I try not to let it get to me but I know its there, I refuse to take a side even though I know they both have reasons to feel hurt.

Its been a while since there's been a crisis with them, in part because I intervened and wouldn't let them escalate it, they know I am enforcing my own neutrality, meaning the balance must be maintained and not "I'm not part of this you deal with that".

Its a weird place to be in, but keeps everyone, including myself, in a less "disruptive" place.

Now back to how this relates to my relationship with my gf.

I guess I'm craving the closeness I haven't had, and she's provided plenty of it on her good moods and I to her, but the insecurities, both hers (feeling inadequate) and mine (I don't trust people it seems) keep us both from making the best of it long term.

Hope that shed's some light on my process.

I'm actively trying to improve, though I've gotten great insights here I still haven't been able to connect the dots and come up with a clear understanding and a path forward on this other than "see what happens", and yet I don't like just drifting along; if anything, I'd like to understand the tides and trade winds to take advantage of them instead of fighting against their unstoppable force (my gf said to me once " I have a way with words", I like using these comparisons all the time, makes them more real for me haha)

I haven't posted in the family section because there's no crisis on that front. I will lurk around there a bit to see what I learn 

And to once removed, I see your post now but missed it due to the "new page" thing, let me get back to you on your observations.

Once again, advice/comments/whatever is welcome

[itsmeSnap]

Ok so to once removed, thanks for the follow up.

im not a psychotherapist or an expert or professional of any kind. it would be the height of arrogance for me to say "these are your issues, this is what to do about them". i dont know any of that.

I guess I was (am?) arrogant enough to expect to be able to come up with a solution to every problem that comes my way. Sorry I put you on the spot there.

that said, when asked, im happy to offer observations.

And I am very thankful for that.

what you mentioned about the loss of your grandpa and "deciding not to be sad" is very telling. it suggests to me that you might have shut off major sources of emotions at a very young age. this makes it difficult to be in touch with ourselves, or others, in very real ways.

that is born out by having few if any intimate relationships. that breaks my heart, because i can tell youre a good dude with a lot to offer and receive.

from a psychoanalytic standpoint, it may require going back to a/the source. to letting yourself cry and grieve for your grandpa, and to feel those feelings. there may be huge parts of you that youve kept locked away since.

The thing is, just like I said before, I don't know what to make of it. I guess like you said, not having someone I felt like I could rely on made me take it upon myself to "not break down and cry".

But I don't feel like crying right now, maybe when another opportunity to grieve I will be more open to letting myself feel, but it seems there's an issue I'm not sure I can point out that's preventing me from doing any of it right now.

I've broken down and cried before due to problems with my parents, not about them with me but the situation in general. My mom saw it once, but it seemed to her like it wasn't my place to be sad about it because I had nothing to do with it or caused it in any way. I realize that but its still frustrating to be immersed in such situations and not be able to do anything and still suffer the consequences, sort of like with my gf's heightened sensibility.

Now that I'm an adult and people listen to me because I'm no longer "a kid that doesn't know better" I feel the "power" to control the situation, and for the most part, after they started listening to what I had to say because of the divorce "crisis", it has gotten a lot better on both ends.

That's probably why I mentioned way back how I wanted to be "officially official" with my gf, up to and including marriage, so her family had to listen, her coworkers had to take me into consideration, heck even police had to listen to me if she ran off or did something reckless when dysregulated: I want that agency.

when i say that this relationship sounds "aloof", i mean it feels very detached, and not intimate, almost as if you barely know each other even after spending many hours/days together, dating, having sex, etc. perhaps im wrong about that; its just how it sounds from here. yet there is, as you say, something very powerful that draws you to it/her.

I've said it before in passing, the good times are the best I've had with anyone. Though I still don't quite get what you mean with "we barely know each other"?

I haven't mentioned the little details because again, I haven't seen how they relate to the problem at hand.

There is something very powerful that draws me to her, it there from the first time we started talking. She was also very drawn to me, to the point of being surprised she was so comfortable around me and that she wasn't as talkative with anyone, that caused her to retreat the first time around, no breakup though.

I kept chasing, she loved our conversations, we had fun, we talked about our lives before we met, we would flirt and have fun with each other. It was a dream come true.

Of course she was wary of letting her "evil side" ruin things. She was aware of it, she mentioned it a few times.

I don't feel like posting too many details about the good times because there are things there that I feel are not correct to be said here, but I felt a connection, and I think she did too, but we might both be afraid to lose it so much after all the bad that's happened in our lives, I see that now.

it sounds to me like your primary interest is essentially to be a life coach to her, so long as she is nice, and willing.

I didn't know about any of it when I met her, only about our second breakup did I start researching and stumbled across BPD. So no, my interest is in her and what we had, the helping her part is part of a "full package" kind of thing.

How could I love a person romantically and not want her to be better or help her get through difficult times?

But I see your point, at one point I did feel like things were "too good" and had my "paranoid moment" when I was sure she was lying to me. Not my best moment to be honest.

This is the most "in depth" I've been in trying to come up with a solution to my/our issues, before it had been focused on managing her outbursts and it worked. Now there was no outbursts, I don't know how to handle it, so I came here looking for answers.

for instance, if all the problems were solved, if there was no puzzle, no mystery, nothing to win or obtain, i wonder if you would still be interested.

At one point there was nothing wrong and that triggered my "paranoid moment/gut feeling". I was still interested, but I did kept some distance. That caused her anxiety, I managed to reassure her but I thought "I need just a few days to have this blow over, I want her to see me at my best".

The day she cut me off I was ready to go back to my romantic and caring self, but she had cut me off already. And I was ready before I noticed the "breakup", so my "coming back" was not precipitated by it.

I did panic and contact her everywhere, blocked every time. Not a good idea.

So yeah, I'm interested in more than "her issues".

we often do these things to avoid, or to ensure that we are always seeking but never quite obtaining real intimacy. while it assures pain, often times, that is the draw.

It would have to be quite subconscious in my case, if at all, because I definitely don't feel like "being in pain" or the "melancholic longing" is the draw for me here.

I simply haven't had that before, and after noticing what happened with friends and family in my early years I see that I fear that close connection will be taken away from me (like my friend-cousin) or be destroyed by her being someone other than who she "claims" to be (like the highschool junkie "best friends" and their secret world away from school or the business partner friend).

I feel like I have that with her when she's in a good mood, just now it seems more like when we both are. I trigger her as much as she triggers me it seems.

learning about vulnerability, intimacy, trust, and how to build these things over time, will likely go a long way for you in connecting with others and building sustainable and mutually rewarding relationships.

I thought I had that with my friends when I was with them, but later I found out they were not how they showed themselves to be. I might be doing that myself here and not notice it.

The point is, it seems here that the "solution" is to accept that "closeness" in relationships and people in general are not supposed to be "stable" but fluid, and accept that at one point we'll be close, and we'll fall behind and apart for a while, and then seek that connection again at a later time and that those changes don't make a relationship or my image of a person I care about "over" or "destroyed".

It seems I've been doing that all my life, either you're a good person or I don't trust you anymore.

i know of no one here with the skills or expertise to guide you in the steps required to do that.

What you've done for me these past weeks has been eye opening and I'm thankful for that. I asked Randi Kreger in a post she had recently (THE EXPERT haha) and she said there are no answers here. I thought at first it was specifically about my question (about stopping splitting), but I see its much more than that, so even if everyone here was a trained professional I still don't think anyone would be qualified to deliver what I asked for.

we havent spoken in detail about your history with your dad, but i gather there is a lot there. i would encourage you to start a thread on the Parent/Sibling/In law board and explore this; id be happy to participate.

Will do after the holidays probably, I have a lot of family coming together, including my estranged friend-cousin and some distant relatives. I want to experience one last christmas together before I move out away from here.

That's why January was the date I chose to move out: could have moved out since september, but I am looking forward to this. My gf knew about this and I was going to spend time with her before I moved out, that's why the getaway was planned then aswell, work was taken care of and I could focus my undivided attention on us.

I asked my dad to get a natural christmas tree (we've had a synthetic for close to ten years now, its missing pieces and the lights didn't work anymore), we've wrapped presents and set up lights for him.

It's the best christmas season we've had in a long time.

I know how it sounds but I want to enter this special time with family without any agenda. I will work on those issues after that, new year new me right? Right now I will be in the moment.

I'll keep posting, right now I don't know what to do exactly about this situation other than just wait and see what happens. If she does contact me like I "predicted" I'll post asap, I wouldn't want to make christmas a bad time for her or for myself if she does.

And drop by faithfulinlove's thread (if you're reading this yourself, Hi faithful!), she seems to be struggling and I've been commenting on her situation, if I'm unavailable I wouldn't want her to feel left alone, she mentioned she hasn't had anyone to talk to so any attention you would have directed at me try and direct it at her for now if you can  .

Thanks again, and like my gf once said to me after a crisis: "you did good".

[once removed]

not having someone I felt like I could rely on made me take it upon myself to "not break down and cry"

at that early an age, not having that can affect your entire world view, in terms of trusting others, relying on others, needing others, as an adult.

But I don't feel like crying right now, maybe when another opportunity to grieve I will be more open to letting myself feel, but it seems there's an issue I'm not sure I can point out that's preventing me from doing any of it right now.

im not suggesting that the act of crying is a cure or a solution. this would be an intensive, long term process with a skilled therapist to guide you.

i dont want to distract from your PSI thread, so i will read and reply more in depth there.

That's probably why I mentioned way back how I wanted to be "officially official" with my gf, up to and including marriage, so her family had to listen, her coworkers had to take me into consideration, heck even police had to listen to me if she ran off or did something reckless when dysregulated: I want that agency.

i think thats an important insight. did you meet or speak with her family?

I've said it before in passing, the good times are the best I've had with anyone. Though I still don't quite get what you mean with "we barely know each other"?

I haven't mentioned the little details because again, I haven't seen how they relate to the problem at hand.

im not stating it as fact. it is my perception/observation based on what ive read and the details i have to go on. hearing more about the other side of things would help, a lot.

It would have to be quite subconscious in my case, if at all, because I definitely don't feel like "being in pain" or the "melancholic longing" is the draw for me here.

no one but an actual masochist "likes" being in pain. the loneliest people in the world desperately want human connection. the same is true for intimacy. but if there is a fear of intimacy (and im not saying there is), we find ways to sabotage it, or close ourselves off from it, or choose partners that cant quite provide it.

what was your question about splitting?

[itsmeSnap]

Hi once removed

i think thats an important insight. did you meet or speak with her family?

No, we just talked about it. She was eager to show me around, she even said she had a dream about it, that she was introducing me to her friends in a party we were attending as an elegantly dressed couple (she was feeling lonely from working at a friend's wedding and not participating herself) and how I had the whole evening/date and everything after planned for us. Maybe she was just giving me what I wanted to hear, I had talked to her about me showing her around, going out and creating memories together.

The plan was to do that in january.

I had asked about her plans for the future before, never had any other than keep working with horses. I do have plans for my future that I shared with her, she was excited about me taking charge and making things happen. She sometimes talked about it as if she wanted to be a part of that future and I told her that we'd make it happen.

hearing more about the other side of things would help, a lot.

I will probably mention them if asked, I remember details more clearly as they become relevant, I have glossed over much of them when talking about my relationship history in part because of that. So I don't know where to begin is probably what I'm saying.

if there is a fear of intimacy (and im not saying there is), we find ways to sabotage it, or close ourselves off from it, or choose partners that cant quite provide it.

I don't know, I've tried to make things better (after a while, there were some mishandled issues in the beginning when I specifically triggered her to show her that I could handle her rage) and for the most part I succeeded, to the point that there was no breakup to be had: she simply stopped responding. No fight, no argument, no personal/ego attacks, I don't even know if she was "seeing" someone else at the time (she told me about going out to have sex with a "friendzoned friend" one time when she was still convinced she would never be close to anyone even if she had kids and a family), just "neediness" as she said herself, then nothing.

Imagine wanting to reach the cookie jar in the top shelf, I stand on my tippy toes and can barely grasp it, just a bit more and I'll get it. Then my leg goes numb and limp and I stumble and fall, end up with a bumped head and one heck of a headache that stays for days.

Did I sabotage myself in that story? my body sure did, and I am my body as much as I am my mind. the mind worked hard for those cookies, and yet the body said "nope, leg doesn't work right now, there's nothing wrong with it, it just won't. sorry not sorry buddy, no cookie for you".

If I'm doing it at all it feels like it would be that way.

what was your question about splitting?

I asked Randi how to stop a pwBPD from breaking contact when they were dysregulating (basically how to solve my issue with my gf).

She recontextualized it as "how do I stop someone splitting?". She said there's no answer, her brain is messed up physically and emotionally. It is what it is, if she's worth it she said, then you have to just go with it, good and bad.

[Full thread here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=332039.0, check it against my take on it to see if I got it right haha I might have misinterpreted it]

[Bnonymous]

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