Ongoing NC with Mom

[Brkfst@Tiffanys]

Hello for the first time in awhile! I've been NC with my mom for nearly a year and am still feeling really strong about that decision. I left the ball in her court in our last interaction, and I think it's right that she take a step toward repairing our relationship if she ever wants to. I've made numerous efforts to address the issues, but I did so from a stronger position than in the past (e.g., no apologies without discussion of what she's upset about and no general acquiescence to her every rage). She didn't like that at all. So... .I'm leaving it up to her. My door is open if she wants to have a respectful, adult conversation about the breakdown in our relationship, but I'm not offering the unjustifiable emotional sacrifices she requires to feel loved again.

I'm just curious about other people's NC experiences. Even though I feel like I've made the right decision, my resolve softens over time (no recent bad behavior to reinforce that I've done the right thing). I got married a few months ago, and she wasn't invited. Again, though I feel that was the right thing for my husband and me, I know that from the outside looking in, I'm "That Daughter Who Didn't Invite Her Mom To Her Wedding." Breaching a social norm that seriously makes me anxious about my decision.

I go weeks without thinking too much about her, but every few months, my therapist notices an uptick in my references to her. On one hand, it's because I don't mind talking about past experiences that reference her in a neutral or positive way--I can tell those stories without much pain. On the other hand, it's those same times where she's in my head a lot that I find myself having those "empty chair" conversations with her or with the people in her life that I know she complains to. Or trolling the BPD forum. (Lol.) I think my latest trigger is our new dog. My mom was my source of dog training knowledge, and I find that I have the same mannerisms and "puppy talk" that she does when interacting with her dog. I guess that's just put her on my mind lately.

I don't think she'll ever contact me. I have acknowledged that a potential (and likely) outcome of me sticking to my "ball's in her court" resolution is that we may never speak again. I can't really tell where I am in dealing with that. Mostly I think I've accepted it, but sometimes I'm still really annoyed and just want her to be rational for a damn second so we can figure stuff out.

Have other people come to this conclusion with their parent? How long have you been NC? Does anyone plan to stay that way forever, unless some miracle occurs and they start working on stuff?

[Panda39]

Hi Brkfst@Tiffanys,

Welcome back 

I'm on these boards because my SO has an uBPDxw and they share two daughters. 

I appreciate you sharing your no contact experience because my SO's D22 is no contact with her mom and has been for 3 years now. 

A little background... .When D22 was 18 and ready to go to college she was accepted at a private liberal arts college out east. Over $20,000 a semester even with financial aid no one had enough money to cover that.  D22 really wanted to go.  Her mother told her there was a "Family Trust" that would pay for it.  My SO told her there was no Trust.  D22 asked her mom for proof and was shown something that looked legitimate to an 18 year old kid. My SO did his best to warn her but she wanted to go, she didn't want to listen.  She was legally an adult at 18 he could not control what happened next.

Her mom put her on a plane to the College out East.  We watched and waited... .maybe there was a trust, maybe some of her mom's family were willing to pay for this college? 

She came home for Christmas break as an Honors Student who had a wonderful first semester.  Then was informed that she would not be welcome back until $15,000 (that's what was left after financial aid) for the previous semester was paid.  Her mother failed to pay, there was no "Trust" and D22 was now in debt to the tune of $15,000 (because she was 18 and the student she was financially responsible). 

What did her mother do... .started talking to D22 about what college she should go to next!  Wash, rinse, repeat   No apology, no accountability, no nothing.

For D22 this was a huge betrayal (she loves school and is now about to graduate early from our local state college with her bachelors in education... .she's going to be a teacher  ) She was done with her mom and went no contact.

No Contact really is a double edged sword.  It protects her from her mother's behaviors but it does create it's own set of difficulties.  I imagine she has those moments like you mentioned with the dogs... .where something triggers a memory that reminds her of her mom (in a good way). 

I know that she has a hard time even talking about her mom to other people.  That they won't understand, that they will encourage her to forgive and forget, I think she worries about how she (D22) will be perceived by others. (Both heartless and mean or gullible and stupid)

In many ways she has moved on with her life and like you probably has periods where she doesn't think much about her mom, but I worry about how much she has emotionally stuffed.  We have suggested she try Therapy but she is unwilling to go.  I know by stuffing some of my own emotional stuff from when I was younger, that it is only a matter of time before things resurface.

My guess is that both of my SO's daughters like you wish they could just have a normal mom.  My SO's younger daughter is low contact with her mom (mostly phone/text and the occasional lunch/coffee) and I think she continues contact because she still has hope that one day her mom will be the mom she needs her to be.

My hope for them is Radical Acceptance... .their mom is who she is, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Boundaries to protect themselves from her worst behaviors and the best relationship with their mom they can have under the circumstances.

Panda39
 

[Turkish]

To "start working on stuff" is a desire common to members on all boards. There are success stories on Bettering and the Parents' board where in people with BPD have made progress with support and work from their loved ones. 

My T told me a long time ago that "personalities typically don't change." He was referring to my uBPDx, not my dBPD mom.  So what are we left with? Us.

Sometimes our behaviors inadvertently trigger BPD responses, or deliberate behaviors (5 years here,  I've seen the latter as well).

"The ball is in their court" is a good way of thinking about it.  It's also good to realize that a pwBPD is a  emotionally reactive person who down deep thinks that they are unlovable and worthless.  Most of the behaviors and actions which cause us pain stem from those core disordered beliefs.  And they behave like that because that's how they've coped for decades. 

I went NC with my mom after she made accusations of criminal elder abuse.  The financial abuse was actually investigated.  Keeping her prisoner, stealing her truck, she told these to others,  but after I took her back to her Hoard and returned her truck (I knew her license was pulled which is why I had her truck in a safe place), those weren't reported. 

A year after last contact, I made it, but I was safe by then.  Convincing her at the time that she was basically crazy wasn't going to fly.  The day I took her back I drove away thinking I'd never see her again.  Over a year later I did and age cried and said "I thought I'd never see you again since you were mad at me!" She didn't really know why.  Dementia had also started to set in. 

I haven't seen her since June, but the kids (6 and 8) and I are going to try and make a visit to the nursing home on Thursday.

That's my story of NC. 

[Fie]

Hello,


It sounds like you have come to some sort of acceptance. You are saying you know your mom will probably not contact you.

As sad as that is, it's good that you accept it. Without acceptance there's a lot more heartache and drama.

My parents choose to instill no contact on me because they saw that I had developed more boundaries. It hurt. But on the other hand, I knew (and still know) that my life would be better like that.

Same for the one grandma who's still alive. She's uBPD too (like my mum). I tried a few times to reconcile, but nothing really worked. She discarded me. That hurt, too.

Sometimes I have flashes like 'what would it be if they saw they were wrong ? If they developed a healthier way of relating to me ?'. But I never really think too much further about it. I know (like Turkish was mentioning too) that in most cases personalities don't change. So I have a choice : I either try to reconcile, on their terms, and I'm miserable. Or ... .I must accept that they are not longer in my life, with the hurt that brings, and I have a drama free life. I choose the latter. And I will always choose it. Life with all of its challenges is difficult enough as it is. No need for people who inflict pain and drama.

Please surround yourself with people who make your life better. Sounds like you have found someone like that in your husband.

I know that from the outside looking in, I'm "That Daughter Who Didn't Invite Her Mom To Her Wedding."

I know what you mean. But who cares about the outside. You are on the inside.

x

[Notwendy]

I'm not NC with my mother but I am more LC and not doing what is "socially acceptable" for my elderly mother.

I'm sure people think her children are horrible for leaving her living alone like she is. Neighbors have called me to say " I think she needs to know you want her to move closer to you".  To be honest, I don't want her to live near me.  My mother is wonderful to her neighbors who think she is the sweetest thing.

She lives alone by her own choice but that isn't socially acceptable so her reasons are that she wants to move but has "excuses" for why she doesn't. She would do better in a semi- assisted living situation but it wouldn't work.  She needs to be in total control and so prefers to hire caregivers who enable her.

I think society does have expectations for a mother- child relationship and it goes both ways. A mother is expected to be caring to a young child, and an adult child is expected to be caring to their elderly mother. This is a norm in many situations. My friends who have good relationships with their parents bring them closer to them in their elder years. I sure hope my own children want to see me often when they are adults with their own families. With us though, we didn't have the caring years, and yet, we feel the norm expectations as adults. How could you not have your mother at your wedding is the norm. We've not had my mother at various family occasions, because we want to enjoy them without drama and the only way to do that is to not include my mother.

We are not the norm, and it's not easy to be "that child" to the world. Also, it would make sense that you think of your mom. She's a significant person in a child's life and to not have her in your life is an absence. Yet, even when present physically, it is an absence. My mother doesn't act like  what people think a mother acts like.

[naturalturn]

I have been NC with my u-BPD mother for a little under 4 months now. I understand what you mean when you feel triggered. The diamond on my engagement ring was given to me by my mother as it was on her engagement ring but she never wore it and now she and my father are separated. After my fiance and I got engaged, she told me "I know the ring is supposed to represent you and your fiance, but it also represents me, so every time you look at it you can think of me." She obviously had her own feelings behind giving me the diamond.

I have become a little less triggered by it recently, but I still take it off the second I get home just as a way to try to see it less. I feel bad that she gave it to me and now I don't speak to her. But I also know she was sucking the life out of me and putting a strain on my relationship with my friends, other family, and fiance. I was miserable when we were speaking to each other.

I am relieved to hear that you got married without inviting your mother. I am in the same boat. We plan on getting married in September, but I have been dragging my heels on the planning of the wedding because of the situation with my mother. I can't just not speak to her but send her an invitation. That would be weird to see her for the first time since we stopped speaking at our wedding. I'm also worried about the harsh judgement I'll receive if I don't invite her, the people I know will NOT be okay with that.

I don't know what I'm going to do about speaking to my mother. I really don't want to speak to her ever again, but I also feel like I have to before the wedding and before my college graduation. I'm considering reestablishing contact after NYE, but I'm so unsure about everything. My therapists aren't really helping either. I'm just as unsure as I was a few months ago. I am considering having my fiance speak to her first (she likes him--- well maybe not anymore, who knows) and see how it goes to figure out if she wants to speak to me or not. I blocked her on my phone, but she hasn't attempted to reach out through social media, email, or through my father. I sent her a thank you card for the birthday gift she sent me, but she didn't send any mail back. I'm so confused as to what to do next. My life is great without her.

[Fie]

@Naturalturn :

I hope it's ok that I am addressing you.

I am relieved to hear that you got married without inviting your mother.

What is stopping you from doing the same ? You are saying " I really don't want to speak to her ever again" - "my life is great without her".

I'm also worried about the harsh judgement I'll receive if I don't invite her, the people I know will NOT be okay with that.

Who are those people ?
Do you have to invite them ?

x

[naturalturn]

@Naturalturn :

I hope it's ok that I am addressing you.

What is stopping you from doing the same ? You are saying " I really don't want to speak to her ever again" - "my life is great without her".

Who are those people ?
Do you have to invite them ?

x

It's complicated. She has forced herself into every part of my life since I was a child. I live in the same city I was born in so I haven't had a chance to have my own life and my own friends. Since I was young, she has always forced her way into almost every social outing I went to. She became friends with all of my friends and regularly would show up at my workplace so she could be friends with my coworkers. She acts COMPLETELY differently in front of other people so my friends and coworkers think she is just wonderful, cute, funny, sweet. They still ask me "Where's your mom? I haven't seen her in a while, I miss her. She should stop by!" They have no idea and I don't feel I can trust them. She has a history of calling my friends/coworkers/boss to shoot the breeze, but often talk about me.

My dad's side of the family wouldn't care about my mom being invited neither would my fiance's family (his parents would be the only ones able to attend due to his family living in a different country.) However, if I didn't invite her, my mother's side of the family would be furious and my friends and coworkers would be confused, gossip about it, and it would be just a negative atmosphere. I only have 2 friends who she hasn't gotten involved with so they would be fine.

I also have to invite my coworkers/boss/friends because we are having our reception at our workplace (since it doubles as a wedding venue on the weekends) and our boss isn't charging us anything.

Additionally, I would want to invite my godmother and another family friend but they are close friends with my mother... so that would be weird too.

Lastly, I don't think my dad would be okay with it at the least. He has made it clear already that it's not up for negotiation (not that he's paying for any part of the wedding, but whatever.)

Ugh, I hate weddings.

[etown]

Brkfst@Tiffanys
This story is so familiar! I'm also NC with my BPD mom. I also have good reasons, but I also struggle with the idea of what people think about me being a bad daughter. For me, the reminder of her is always around food. My mom loves/loved baking and is/was excellent at it. I use a lot of her recipes and they remind me of good memories. I see certain parts of her in me, which I used to find terrifying because I knew what she was capable of and I didn't want to be that person.
I'm growing to like those parts, which is something I couldn't do when we were in contact because those good memories were always attached to the ongoing emotional manipulation and history of trauma. I look forward to the day when I can look back on the happy moments with my mom and not get thrown back into the feeling of danger that surrounded them. Come to think of it, this ability to see both the good and bad in my mother might be the thing that saves me from replicating her BPD behaviour.
As for your struggle with your wedding, naturalturn, I'm so sorry this has infected what should be your day. Whatever you have to do to protect yourself, know that your health and happiness are worth it. 

[Turkish]

naturalturn,

Given how you described this,  it would be very awkward for you might not to be there.  How do you lean weighting this either way?

To me,  if you invite her,  it sounds like she might behave given the persona she adopts in front of others.  What do you think?

[naturalturn]

naturalturn,

Given how you described this,  it would be very awkward for you might not to be there.  How do you lean weighting this either way?

To me,  if you invite her,  it sounds like she might behave given the persona she adopts in front of others.  What do you think?

Hey Turkish,

Do you mean when/if my fiance speaks to her first?

Yeah, most likely. The biggest concern I have is the evil looks she would throw my way when nobody is looking and the whispering in Spanish saying mean things to me. She may still appear wonderful to everybody else, but she may make me very uncomfortable. Unless we manage to make some sort of amends before the wedding... .

[Fie]

Naturalturn,

I understand.
My mum is BPD too, and I have always thought I should explain everything every time she asks for an explanation (and as your know, it's never good enough, and oftentimes it's just baiting and wanting to cause confusion in us).
This has led me to adopt this behavior towards others, too. For all of my life, I have always felt like I need to explain myself (upon asking or not).

Now since some time I have developped a different attitude. I have learned (yes, it was a learning experience) that I don't owe anyone any explanation. And you know what ... .People buy that. (Because they are like that too !)
So, when people ask me why I am not into contact with my mum, I tell them : you know, it's complicated and I don't want to say much, but let's just say my mum is not so emotionally stable. (Before I would have lost myself in endless justifications - out of guilt also, maybe ?)  And to my surprise people don't ask further !

I am not saying that this is something you need to apply for your wedding. But maybe it's something you can gradually try to build up as an attitude ?
It definitely makes life a lot easier.

And you know what ? It feels like *my* life now.

[Notwendy]

Natural turn- I understand your situation. My BPD mother also has been connected to many people in my life.

It is a lot easier now that I don't live near her. We have separate social groups. We do share family and some friends of hers on her side. She has painted me black to them and so they are her connections now. I would not trust them either with anything I say to them. Some of them rarely speak to me as it is and some don't speak to me.

My father is deceased but there was no way I could have a relationship with him and not her. My parents paid for my wedding and basically it was my mother's wedding. The majority of guests were her friends and family.

I understand about the ring. Emotionally - if my mother pays for anything or gives me anything it comes with strings attached. Perhaps one day in the future you could reset your ring and save the diamond for one of your children. It would not have the same emotional impact on them.

I think considering your situation, having your mother at your wedding is probably the only way to have the other people you care about there. Your other choice is to do a small ceremony and not make it a family event.  It's also time for you and your fiance to plan your own lives separate from your mother but you can choose to do this gradually ( go more LC than NC with your mother ) or abruptly by having a complete separate wedding.

[naturalturn]

So, when people ask me why I am not into contact with my mum, I tell them : you know, it's complicated and I don't want to say much, but let's just say my mum is not so emotionally stable. (Before I would have lost myself in endless justifications - out of guilt also, maybe ?)  And to my surprise people don't ask further !

I am not saying that this is something you need to apply for your wedding. But maybe it's something you can gradually try to build up as an attitude ?
It definitely makes life a lot easier.

And you know what ? It feels like *my* life now.

That is a good attitude to have. I guess what I'm always trying to do is avoid ever getting to the point where somebody may ask for an explanation. Yes! Good point this stems from guilt I'm sure... .You're right though I need to practice an attitude that I don't owe an explanation to anybody.

[naturalturn]

I think considering your situation, having your mother at your wedding is probably the only way to have the other people you care about there. Your other choice is to do a small ceremony and not make it a family event.  It's also time for you and your fiance to plan your own lives separate from your mother but you can choose to do this gradually ( go more LC than NC with your mother ) or abruptly by having a complete separate wedding.

Yeah I guess that's kind of the turning point. I'm thinking my fiance and I need to establish some sort of LC with her. I just don't know how to go from NC to LC. Before I went NC with my mother, I was gradually making our relationship more and more LC and as this very gradual (over 2.5 years) process continued, she continued to get more and more aggressive, angry, attached, obsessed, and dramatic which is why I went NC. So it's hard for me to even fathom how to maintain a LC relationship without her making me miserable.