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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Oceanair

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What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: separated, ex
Posts: 6


« on: October 22, 2018, 02:50:30 PM »

First post regarding my failed lesbian relationship - My therapist suggested this site and I'm happy to be here.  I'm 56 and 2 weeks out of the most emotionally tumultuous relationship imagineable... .at least to me.  I don't know which way is up and I cant figure out how something so wonderful had turned so toxic and destructive.  We were together for only 1.5 years and the range of love, fear, blame, contradictions, commeraderie, frusteration, Hope, power, deceit, and great sex has turned me into an emotional/physical basket case.  I'm sorting it out with professional help and trying to determine how much of this is mine, but right now I'm exhausted and having a hard time making sense of anything... .and as crazy as it sounds and for as imbalanced as our relationship was I miss her terribly.  She could be so loving, charismatic and charming. 
Thank you for being here. 


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« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2018, 03:41:14 PM »

hi Oceanair and Welcome

as crazy as it sounds and for as imbalanced as our relationship was I miss her terribly.

i know what you mean. my relationship was tumultuous too, and i often considered or threatened to end it, and when she finally did, it was devastating.

im glad you reached out to us, and i hope youll make yourself at home as part of the family. central to recovery is a strong support system. i know of no better.

tell us more, if you will. what were the primary conflicts in your relationship? how did things finally end? what sorts of things can we help you make some sense of?
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« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2018, 05:04:12 PM »

Hey Oceanair, Welcome!  What makes you think your Ex has BPD, if I may ask?  A good starting place in the aftermath of a BPD r/s (or any r/s) is by treating yourself with kindness and compassion.  Suggest you focus on your needs, not hers.  You've been through an ordeal so it's normal to be wiped out.  One caution: be careful about taking on the blame for your b/u, because those w/BPD are experts at shifting responsibility to the Non, in order to get it off their plate.

LuckyJim

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« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2018, 05:36:20 PM »


Thank you for being here. 


Thank you for being here.  It sounds crazy and familiar.  I spent a lot of time trying to figure it out - in a way I was in a fog so much of the time.  My relationship was also filled with drama.  You've come to the right place so keep sharing and poke around and you'll very likely find that even in your current state you can help others while helping yourself. You're not alone. Welcome! Thanks for sharing. 
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« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2018, 01:49:26 PM »

Hi Oceanair,

Welcome

I'm exhausted and having a hard time making sense of anything... .and as crazy as it sounds and for as imbalanced as our relationship was I miss her terribly.  She could be so loving, charismatic and charming. 
Thank you for being here. 

Id like to join the others and welcome you to bpdfamily, I'm sorry for the circumstances that led to this site, I am glad that you decided to join us, there is hope.

Many members here can relate with the conflicted feelings that you're having and how nothing makes sense a pwBPD project their feelings on others those projections can be really confusing sometimes you start to doubt yourself and think that they can be your own.

Talking to others here starting discussions on your situation and experience things that you're struggling with and joining other discussions and seeing the similarities will help you sort out your experience things will eventually make sense and you'll see that you're not alone in your journey.

How did you break-up?
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Oceanair

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Relationship status: separated, ex
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« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2018, 08:58:32 PM »

  After sessions of describing my chaotic life and blaming myself I was referred to bpdfamily by my Dr/therapist who worked with Dr. Linehan.   I don't know if my ex is un-diagnosed BPD and it feels unfair to pin all of our problems on that.  But before my initial post I read other peoples posts, scenarios and additional information.  It felt like it could have been my life... .The scenarios were so aligned with my experiences that I felt validated and comforted that I'm not totally crazy.
So I posted.
I wanted to thank you for the support and your replies.  I'm foggy and exhausted and trying to make sense of this place I'm in.  Its just so distressing to have boomeranged from having found my person and planning a life to being shunned and invisible, undervalued and and criticized.   
I don't know where the road to love diverged to chaos.  There was a culmination of bumps and each bump seemed to be a setback that she couldn't or wouldn't come back from.   Her trust in me was broken over stories she wrote in her own mind... .  She was convinced I would abandon her.  She was convinced I was evasive and couldn't be trusted.  She was convinced that I had ulterior motives for wanting to be with her.  And then she would have such mood swings, from anxiety that paralyzed her with the fear to being the most loving wonderful partner imaginable.  I would work harder to prove to her that I chose her, I loved her, I wanted to be with her.  I tried to allay her fears with love and compassion and worked so hard at being transparent, available, communicative and supportive.  And I played right into her cycle of fear, abandonment, nurture, soothe, blame, skewed perception, anxiety, mistrust, detachment, manipulations (if you loved me... .) and then huge love and consistency and plans and future and then... .the cycle.   

I stayed,  I continued to plan a future despite her inconsistency and ultimately her manipulations.  After the first year I  felt I was only a conduit to her plans, a way for her to fulfill a future she had envisioned yet didn't communicate to me.  When we argued I was seen as the aggressor when I asked for clarification... .as if I was contesting the conversation, questioning her.  When I wasn't her "bad guy" I was invisible, ignored, ill regarded, criticized.  At her absolute insistence at filling her calendar (because she loved me and couldnt wait to see me) I would dedicate my days off to her only to have her frequently cancel our time, or delay our plans for something that came up for her... .there was never an apology or empathy for me having cancelled plans with my family or friends to be with her.   When we had disagreements I would ask, "what am I not doing?" she would tell me I had to work harder... .When I mirrored a conversation I was told "I didn't say that" when I know she did.  I began to question my ability to understand her and began to keep notes to help me keep our phone conversations straight and always I would hear "I never said that"  or " You weren't listening, I didn't say that".   My confidence was shot and I began to question my sanity.  Her comment "If this relationship fails, its on you" still stings. 

We are both educated professionals and well regarded in our fields.  How did we get here?  I'm upset with myself mostly.   How did I lose my boundaries, how did I let myself become so invisible and then so ill regarded.  How did I invest my future on such inconsistent shows of love and nurturing.  And why did I play into that chaotic cycle .  Thank God for therapy, good friends and family. I still hold such love for her. I'm crying right now.   I feel like I could have or should have tried harder.   
But in the end her words were prophetic... ."If this relationship fails its on you."  I wasn't strong enough to endure the chaos and I ended it.  I feel broken.
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« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2018, 09:36:47 PM »

there was never an apology or empathy for me having cancelled plans with my family or friends to be with her.

She was centered on herself because she has a serious mental disorder that needs to be addressed that cannot be fixed by loved it has to come from her. BPD is like an emotional black hole you can give and give and give and it never will be enough it’s also that self centeredness that I mentioned.

When we had disagreements I would ask, "what am I not doing?" she would tell me I had to work harder... .When I mirrored a conversation I was told "I didn't say that" when I know she did.

A pwBPD will rewrite and alter reality too match their out of place feelings you were right but it sounds convincing when a pwBPD will say that they didn’t do that, say that etc... .it’s one of those things that makes this disorder so hard because it’s a disorder that gets triggered when you become close to that person otherwise you wouldn’t know.

I'm upset with myself mostly.   How did I lose my boundaries, how did I let myself become so invisible and then so ill regarded.  How did I invest my future on such inconsistent shows of love and nurturing.  And why did I play into that chaotic cycle

Don’t beat yourself up you know a pwBPD have poor understanding of other people’s boundaries you could have the strongest boundaries and sometimes they’ll roll right over you.

You became attached, you cared for her and you sound like you worked hard on your end, you get caught up with all of the day to day things you’re in the thick of it these r/s break ups are insidious you’ve and like you said it’s tumultuous and you give yourself so much that you don’t have time to catch your breath and reflect on things.

But in the end her words were prophetic... ."If this relationship fails its on you."

You can add this to projections and dissociations a r/s is 50/50 it doesn’t all fall on one person. She can’t cope with it a pwBPD expect that people in their lives will leave them and will sabotage the r/s by abandoning the other person before they’re abandoned.

You’re not responsible for the behaviours from the disorder - don’t take the lions share of the blame. Take your share and if she doesn’t want to take her share just leave it there if she doesn’t want it’s not yours.
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« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2018, 02:25:02 AM »

Welcome and sorry for your intense pain at this time.

Whether she has been diagnosed as BPD or not, you have found the right place.

The relationship and behaviours you encountered are so similar to those many of us have experienced. The kind of cycles and challenges you have described can leave a person feeling so confused. When I was repeatedly told that I could not be trusted, I didn't know why or even know what that meant. It remains six months after he ended the r/s to be the thing he has focused on. That we had no trust. I was accused of being with other men so many times, when I was 100% faithful. Post relationship, in our only breach of silence, he managed to accuse me again and I dove into a pages-long defence of my faithfulness. It is so hard to be falsely accused. But in the end, I have learned, I can not make him see the truth.

Excerpt
Her trust in me was broken over stories she wrote in her own mind... .

This... So frustrating. I don't know how many times I told him to stop making things up. That something didn't happen, just because he was able to imagine it in the dark recesses of his mind... .that I was not willing to subscribe to his distorted version of reality.

I could do cartwheels about all of these things and he'd just say, "I don't believe you." You were accused of being evasive, I was accused of being "secretive." That was just a protest to us having any sense of boundaries or self whatsoever. Its a puzzle with no solution. You can't win.

What I know is that when these relationships fail, they take an incredible amount of processing... .For me the difficulty of recovery is in the love, but also in the confusion. Things don't seem to make sense. How can someone who felt so close have turned so cold? And I remember the sense of exhaustion as you have described, when in the first month of breakup. I slept so much. Your body is telling you something. This relationship was taxing. My body was so relieved it was over, but my heart was not on board.

I hope that you can find some comfort from this board. Its been a place for me as I have been in and out of this relationship for over six years. Mostly I think the pain of being with this exceptional person has been worth the reward. I know what you mean about thinking you had found "your person." That feeling is so difficult to lose. What I do know is that whether I have been in contact, out of contact, back in the r/s, or cast out... things don't change very much. The things I wrote six years ago are very similar to the things I would write now. It has been helpful to keep these writings. My journals and notes, but also his emails and texts. To recognize the cycle that you have described. It is really important to understand that this is who she is. This chaos is how she lives,how she thinks and how she behaves in intimate relationships. But you will ask yourself, what if you YOU can change for her... can that repair the dynamic? I thought it could, but really over time I've learned that no matter what I did, i didn't have what it took to make this work. These stories he made up... he says now that we were both there and we will both recall things as we will, and we will both take from the r/s our own perceptions and knowledge of what happened. I can not change his truth any more than he can change mine. No matter how much love I tried to show, tell, demonstrate, prove... he could not hold it. I kept trying to fill up his bucket with love, but there was a huge hole in the bottom.

It is really hard, but I think for me accepting who he is might be the key to my recovery. I love a very broken person. I think believing that he "had it wrong" or "misunderstood my love and intentions" has kept me hooked in far too long. If I could just make him see me for who I really am! Feel the love I have for him! I too, was accused of "having ulterior motives." I can't imagine what he would think they could be. I was just there for love. Literally, love and affection and sex and companionship... There wasn't anything else on offer so I can't imagine what else he thought I could gain. But you really hit the nail on the head, when you said your ex created her own story. Just know that story has a foundation in her own assumptions, schemas and core beliefs from years before you even met her. You would hope your love could be the thing to break those down, but how could they? It's who she is and she very likely doesn't even think she needs to change. Why would she? It is far easier to project onto you. Probably very little of this is conscious. You have been fighting a very tough battle, and one that you likely can not win.

Keep healing. Its a long, long road to recovery, so please be patient with yourself. Some people here say there is another side. Though I am still striving to get there, I will trust the people here that it can get easier. It is easy to trust here when you see how similar your story is to many others, sometimes right down to the words that were spoken... you will see here that people really can understand what you have been through, that they have been there. And after really understanding that they have walked this road, you can start to have faith that they their recovery might mean it is possible for you as well.

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« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2018, 12:56:17 PM »

But before my initial post I read other peoples posts, scenarios and additional information.  It felt like it could have been my life... .The scenarios were so aligned with my experiences that I felt validated and comforted that I'm not totally crazy.

it can be such a huge relief. ill never forget it. to know that there really are answers and explanations for things weve been through. to know that others are going through it, or have made it to the other side. it can make everything we are experiencing much smaller, in the best of ways, in a manageable way.

I don't know if my ex is un-diagnosed BPD and it feels unfair to pin all of our problems on that.  

i hear you on this, and i admire your attitude. the label "BPD" can really inform our recoveries if used responsibly. its a personality style, composed of maladaptive traits to lesser or greater degrees, and it can make for some very hurtful and confusing behaviors that have a real impact on the people that love them. better understanding of all of that can help a great deal. certainly, the unrealistic expectations and rescue fantasies you describe are the likes of which many here know well.

So I posted.

and im glad you did. i hope you will continue to.

I don't know where the road to love diverged to chaos.  There was a culmination of bumps and each bump seemed to be a setback that she couldn't or wouldn't come back from.   Her trust in me was broken over stories she wrote in her own mind... .  She was convinced I would abandon her.  She was convinced I was evasive and couldn't be trusted.  She was convinced that I had ulterior motives for wanting to be with her.  And then she would have such mood swings, from anxiety that paralyzed her with the fear to being the most loving wonderful partner imaginable.  I would work harder to prove to her that I chose her, I loved her, I wanted to be with her.  I tried to allay her fears with love and compassion and worked so hard at being transparent, available, communicative and supportive. 

it sounds like youve really been through the wringer  . adjusting to being out of the cycle can be a volatile process, but it really does get better.  

But in the end her words were prophetic... ."If this relationship fails its on you." 

im with Mutt... .lot of unrealistic blame in that statement.
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Oceanair

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Relationship status: separated, ex
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« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2018, 11:13:24 AM »

Thank you for your responses.  I feel overwhelmed and its difficult to parse out the responses that ring with me.  I've read and re-read your words of advice and support.  Thank you all.

I think I'm fine one day and without much warning I feel the tears well up.  I cant even listen to the radio... .classical is good, no words.   And as for movies... .ugh, cant go there.  And then my light bulb.  I felt such a spectrum of emotion with her , that I miss it.  How could I possibly miss the frustration, the exasperation, the anger and the confusion?  Because on the other end of the spectrum was joy, laughter, love, great sex and a sense of belonging.  But I'm realizing it was always on her terms... .

I'm peeling back my "why's" with professional help.  Trying to answer how I got hooked, am still  hooked and what I got, wanted, contributed to the relationship.  I thought (and a large part of me still thinks) it was the relationship of my dreams.  And I feel this is a huge tragedy.  I want to be logical about why its better for me to be out of this relationship but my emotions have no sense of self preservation... .and I'm conflicted and in pain about all of this. 

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« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2018, 12:19:43 PM »

Hey Oceanair, Your story is quite familiar and you are not alone.  Many of us have been down this BPD path before you.  The place to start, I suggest, is with yourself, by paying close attention to your needs and treating yourself well.  Figuring out how you got hooked is a worthwhile inquiry, in my view.  Hint: usually it has something to do with your FOO (family of origin) or other childhood trauma.  Keep us posted and let us know if you have any particular questions.

LJ
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« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2018, 01:56:51 PM »

I think I'm fine one day and without much warning I feel the tears well up.  I cant even listen to the radio... .classical is good, no words.   And as for movies... .ugh, cant go there.  And then my light bulb.  I felt such a spectrum of emotion with her , that I miss it. 

just anticipating and accepting that there will be ups and downs, even wild ones, can go a long way toward making things more manageable.

one of the things that helped me most in my recovery was to learn to process all of it in a way where i could be present for it and acknowledge it, and stand a little to the side and just observe it all without judgment at the same time. in this way, it becomes easier to "work" through rather than just letting time take the edge off.

Wisemind is the synthesis of our logical and emotional brain: https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind

How could I possibly miss the frustration, the exasperation, the anger and the confusion?  Because on the other end of the spectrum was joy, laughter, love, great sex and a sense of belonging. 

no doubt, these were/are intense and loaded relationships and complex bonds. i struggled with missing it too. its not so easy to just revel in being away from all the conflict. theres a real loss that we have to grieve.
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Oceanair

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Relationship status: separated, ex
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« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2018, 12:35:43 PM »

So, this journey is more painful than I imagined.  I'd like to thank everyone that has commented and read my "healing" thread.   Being surrounded, saturated, turned inside out by our BPD partners, family or friends is a path I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy... .yet the only "enemy" I'm aware of in my life is my Ex. 
I am the villain, the bad guy the one who upended her life and brought tragedy to her future?

that's the conundrum because with her:

I sat in pain feeling emotionally wrung to my last ray of sense of self. 
I was emotionally squeezed and manipulated... .drained and I pressed on out of some perverse sense of loyalty, love, hope, guilt or shame.  It was the promise of better days because the good days (so rare) were beyond description... .so so good.
I was detached from friends, healthy outlets and things that brought me joy because I folded to her manipulations

 In our communication I remember saying:
- Our relationship feels so unbalanced
-Why are you making me out to be negative? I'm not a negative person!
-Saying "no" to (name the activity) isn't saying no to you!   I was emotionally punished (witholding, pouting, passive-aggressive) if I said no to her.
-Can we please have honest communication
-Please don't speak for me
-Why do I feel like you're punishing me or withholding?
-Your actions are contradicting your words and the contracts you have set up for our relationship.
-I'm disappointed you wont acknowlege important things in my life (people, places)
She always compared me and I didnt quite measure up (my dog wasnt as well trained, my house wasnt as nice, my friends werent as successful, my education wasnt as comprehensive).   When the reality is my dog is certified and trained, my house is perfect (for me), clean and nicely decorated, my friends are successful business owners, and I am well educated ! 

or worse, in the heat of moments I remember feeling so upended in chaos, I never knew which way was up and I remember responding:

-Please, that's not what I said
-Why are you writing such a negative story about me? That's not accurate, can we talk about this?
-If that was your expectation why didn't you share it with me?  I'm sorry, I didnt know that's what you wanted.

 The last straw for me was an interview for an important position with the State which caused her to hit high manipulation mode.  She was so angry that I would miss our morning coffee date for my interview !


And in these culmination of moments I knew I would never be seen.  My life's goals would be second to her.  My life would never hold precedence over her folly's.   My love for her would never be enough.  Her love for me would never be consistant.  I would always be invisible unless she wanted something, could gain something or could benefit for her own goals or desire. 

And this realization was the saddest yet the healthiest day I've had in recent memory.

It gets better.  If anyone is in the same or similar place... .IT GETS BETTER !  Have confidence to leave.  Have the faith to know there is a brighter day ahead.  And know you are NOT crazy.  You are not the aggressor.  The chaos is NOT YOURS TO OWN. 

Leave the chaos and please believe , there is a brighter day ahead.





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« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2018, 09:38:15 PM »

thanks for the update, Oceanair. its good to hear your feeling stronger. id encourage you to spend some time on the Learning board with us, where we learn the lessons from our relationships, the lessons we want to take into future relationships, and more about human nature in general.

there is a brighter day ahead.

whats going on in your life right now?
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Oceanair

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Relationship status: separated, ex
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« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2018, 12:54:51 AM »

What's going on ? 

A lot of therapy, introspection, and healing.

Today my brighter day is the absence of chaos.

Thank you for asking! 
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