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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: Not Sure Where to Start  (Read 659 times)
JustGoAway123

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 4


« on: November 23, 2018, 07:56:37 PM »

I'm somewhat new to this forum. So forgive me if I get a little hard to follow. My ex was never properly diagnosed as BPD. It seemed as though he met all the criteria but it wasn't diagnosed but it's also easy to lie to others about what you're really like. Instead he would project and I was the one with BPD and I was the villain. I was the latest abuser in a long line of abusers in his life. It got extremely exhausting after a while and I would blow up and in turn prove him right.
We are currently trying to co parent a child together and it is not going well. I keep trying to make boundaries and he keeps breaking them. I get multiple emails a day usually telling me how messed up I am. By multiple I don't mean like 5. I get upwards to 50-100 emails some days. It gets out of control. He will email and email til he finally presses enough buttons and I respond. Usually not well which I'm sure is exactly what he's hoping for. I just don't know what to do anymore. I want to keep lines of communication open but at what cost?
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ForeverDad
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
Posts: 18679


You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2018, 09:41:15 PM »

He is pushing your buttons through past experience he knows that if he prods (provokes) you enough, you'll hit your limit and vent.

Ideas... .10 or 50 emails is certainly excessive.  No professional would expect you to address them all.  With the conflict in your parenting the only choice is to do your parenting more or less separately, known as "parallel parenting" or as my custody evaluator phrased it, "tag team parenting".  He parents on his time, you parent on your time.  He shouldn't control your parenting, just as I'm sure you haven't been able to control his parenting.

On the one hand, you don't want to have your children be the middle-men messengers, especially if they're young.  On the other hand, there is too much emotional and behavioral sabotaging for verbal communication to succeed on a normal basis.  Good that you're using email.  That's solid for documentation.  Save all his emails in case needed later to prove his poor behaviors.  Boundary #1 is to email only about matters pertaining to the children or their schedules.  Typical advice is to respond - once  - to valid items, usually best to reply to each item in separate emails.  Mix several issues together and it's easier for him to cloud the issues up again.  Ignore any emails or items that are off-topic (not related to the children or parenting).  Two approaches here:

  • Protect yourself emotionally... .  Don't let him get under your skin.  He's also no doubt a skilled life-long master manipulator.  He's known you for years, he knows how to exasperate you.  Understand his game.  Then don't pay his game.  Imagine you have an emotional shield or umbrella that all his biting arrows bounce right off.  If you get 50 or 100 emails, think, "Yeah, that's him but they don't bother me anymore!"  At first this will get him even more upset and for a while he may ramp up his game to get you to revert to prior patterns.  That's called extinction bursts.  Don't fall for it.  Then next time in court you report his excessive/harassing off-topic emails and ask the court to address the issue.  By then you'll have established a history of not getting triggered by his improper and excessive emails.  (Courts generally only look at the most recent 6 months of behaviors, older stuff is usually ignored except to demonstrate ongoing patterns of behaviors.)
  • Boundaries... .  Henry Cloud has an excellent book, Boundaries.  You know boundaries won't work on him, maybe the court's boundaries but not yours.  So when we talk about boundaries, we're talking about You.  How so?  Rethink what boundaries are.  You can't tell him what to do or not do, he won't listen.  Rather, you state what your boundaries are if he misbehaves.  Style:  "If you do or don't do ___ then I will do or not do ___."  One example may be that if he sends excessive emails, then you won't respond to them until something like 24-48 hours have passed and certainly if they have nothing to do with valid parenting matters.  Quick responses are only for urgent safety matters or perhaps a change for an upcoming exchange.   Criticism of you is out, no response.  Blaming you for {whatever} is out, no response.  For this too expect a ramping up of misbehaviors, extinction bursts aimed to get you to relapse into prior patterns of response.

You may feel that things are getting worse with extinction bursts but generally once the irresistible force (disordered ex) realizes it has met the immovable object (you and your newfound improved boundaries) then things generally improve.  Perhaps not by much but life will get better as you learn to be proactive and insightful rather than reactive and easily triggered.

Edit:  Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

Sorry I forgot to welcome you. I'm thoughtful and empathetic (also, "been there, done that") but not so much a people etiquette person.
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JustGoAway123

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 4


« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2018, 09:49:52 PM »

He asks me to email him about appointments and other issues with our child but I can't even do that. Any email I send him becomes an opening. He seems to think it means he now has the right to email me about whatever he wants. Usually he just wants to try and diagnose me with whatever he's decided I am that week. I'll get emails telling me how awful I was and then later I'll get emails about how much he loves me and wishes we could make it work. It's been over a year since we split up. I try my best not to feed into it. I get to the point where I just want to defend myself and that is a huge mistake. The truth doesn't matter to him, only what he perceives as the truth.
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ForeverDad
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
Posts: 18679


You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2018, 10:20:57 PM »

Excerpt
You can't reason with or convince someone who isn't listening.

You will be playing his game if you keep trying to counter his blaming and character assassination with your reason and logic.  Did you watch the movie War Games (1983) where the NORAD tactical computer named Joshua stops playing an Armageddon scenario and states, "The only winning move is not to play."  Ponder that.

You can never accept what he says in the years to come... .unless he gets into serious therapy, accepts the counsel from the experienced therapist, studiously applies it in his thinking, perceptions and life, probably for years or even the rest of his life.   Odds of that are, well, pretty low.  So get used to becoming smarter in your interaction with him, as the song goes, "If you're gonna play the game, boy, you gotta learn to play it right... .You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,  know when to walk away and know when to run... ." — The Gambler, Kenny Rogers.

As for the appointment notifications, yes that may be required.  But the rest, ignore what you can.  Some here have found that responding probably needs to be limited to repeating the notification.  Maybe add that you'll notify the professional of whatever applicable that is his concern?  The point is to comply with the court's order but not get into circuitous arguments that go nowhere good.

Around here we get many reports that such communications are pointless, the engagement is not for the children's benefit and therefore it is "negative engagement".  It accomplishes nothing but pointless unhelpful contact.

Many here have discovered that the courts and professionals involved in domestic cases are reluctant to identify mental issues in the parents.  Clearly they found that many problem parents don't respond to therapy, so they don't even try much at all and simply deal with parents as they are.
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david
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 4365


« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2018, 07:39:44 AM »

I used to try to explain myself and my reasoning. That is what I did when we were married. I looked at it as mutual respect. It took me several years after we were separated that I realized the only way to change things was for me to change. I still read all her emails. I only reply to things that strictly pertain to our boys and only if I really think I need to. My ex would ask lots of questions which she could answer herself. I did not respond to them. It wasn't easy to distinguish at first but I got better at it.
I used to get three page emails telling how bad I was or what my problems were. Somewhere in the email I would have a question about what time I would be picking the boys up. I would reply to the entire email by stating, "I will pick the boys up at 9 am, the month and day." If she sent another email ranting at me but nothing in it that pertained to the boys I would save it but not reply. I viewed the emails as a paper trail, in case we go to court, showing what is going on. I stayed focused on the boys and she stayed focused on attacking me. I looked at it as a gift. Over time, several years , things became quieter. I still get some emails like that but nowhere near the amount I used to get.

I also only communicate through email. I got rid of texting a while ago to stop her from texting me. When I got it back she found out. We were in a court ordered co parent counseling session when she brought it up. I said very calmly that I will only communicate through email and if she sends me a text I will delete it without looking at it. Within 45 minutes after the meeting she texted me. I have no idea what was in that text. She never sent me a text again.
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JustGoAway123

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 4


« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2018, 11:28:11 AM »

I've been ignoring him so of course the emails are getting worse and worse. He's trying so hard to get a reaction.
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ForeverDad
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
Posts: 18679


You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2018, 01:31:52 PM »

I've been ignoring him so of course the emails are getting worse and worse. He's trying so hard to get a reaction.

So you set a boundary.  Predictably he's trying to overwhelm your boundary, his comfort zone was in the way things were before.  If you stick to your boundary then over time it should work.  Your ex will still sabotage, obstruct or distract but over time it ought to be "less bad" than before.

Shields up!
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Panda39
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
Relationship status: SO and I have been together 9 years and have just moved in together this summer.
Posts: 3462



« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2018, 02:21:40 PM »

Hi JustGoAway123,

Love your screen name    and know the feeling.

It's about boundaries and enforcing them and minimizing contact to only what is necessary.  It is about no JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) on your end.  You can't control what he does but you can control what you do.

I often share this simplified example of setting a boundary because it is what your ex is doing when you set a boundary.  He sends you an email and you don't instantly respond so he ups it to 10 and then more. When you respond he learns how far he has to push to get what he wants... .your response/engagement.

Excerpt
We've all seen this at the grocery store... .

Mom's value: I want to take good care of my child and that includes eatting good healthy food.
Mom's boundary: Sweets are to be had at special occasions only
Mom's Action: Not buy sweets for her child while grocery shopping

A little kid asks mom for candy, mom says no so the kid pouts.  Little kid asks mom again for some candy, mom says no again so the kid whines.  Little kid asks mom again for some candy, mom says no for the third time, this time kid has a full on melt down screaming tantrum (what we call an Extinction Burst). What happens if mom gives in and gets the candy?  That little kid has just learned that having a screaming tantrum will get them what they want.  What happens if mom doesn't give in? The kid learns that no means no and he gives up.

This does not mean however that the little kid won't ask again the next time mom and he go to the grocery store... .the kid will test the boundary again and so will the person with BPD in your life.  The key here is to always be consistent with your boundary.

The key to these emails is to only respond to legitimate emails about your child, keep your focus there. That is your boundary.  You don't need to announce to him that is your boundary you only need to enforce it.  If it's bashing you... .your a horrible mom, you do this and you don't do that etc. ignore it. If it's FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) or emotional blackmail ignore it.  Your ex is trying to engage you with him, negative attention is still attention.  Don't pick up the bait... .don't JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) this just feeds the drama.  

When communicating with him, use BIFF (Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm).

     Hi ex,
     I just wanted to let you know that Jr. has an appointment with the Pediatrician on
     Tuesday, 11/18/18 for a physical. Feel free to reach out the the doctor's office for
     information about the visit.
     Thank you,
    
That's it, you've given him the required information about the appointment and told him how he can get information on that visit. No need to engage further.

Your ex is gonna do what he's gonna do... .millions of emails.  What can change things is your response (Lack of response  ).  

More on Boundaries... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368.0

More on JADE... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0

More on FOG... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0

More on BIFF... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=134124.0

Panda39
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"Have you ever looked fear in the face and just said, I just don't care" -Pink
ForeverDad
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
Posts: 18679


You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2018, 05:26:55 PM »

I gather you haven't been to court yet.  What is your current parenting schedule?  Is he abiding by it?  Besides the endless emails, do you have concerns about his parenting?  (Agencies surrounding the court may step in if the issues are substantive enough... .typically child abuse, child neglect or child endangerment.  Sorry, a missed meal or other minor instance doesn't rise to the level of being 'actionable'.)

Remember, you are not obligated to be overly fair in sharing parenting.  He may demand equal time but that doesn't mean you have to agree to it.  (Court doesn't try to be 'fair'.  It issues decisions based on law, prior case law, policies, procedures, etc.)  Historically, many fathers with no parenting conflict often get alternate weekends and an evening or overnight in between.  That may be changing a little less in mothers' favor but in your case there are concerns about the other parent's documented poor behaviors.  Other factors to consider are the age of the children (children under 3 years of age may default to shorter but more frequent visits), the level of parental conflict, whether one parent is a sufficiently problem parent to have less time (more about parenting than communication with the other parent), which parent has a work schedule or arrangements most suited for majority parenting time, etc.

If you can document reasons why you need to limit his excesses, and you advocate or propose common sense or practical solutions, then you may find success with a judge's order.  Beware that typical orders include standard templates that assume parental cooperation so modify such "invitations to push the limits, misbehave or re-interpret" such as "reasonable" telephone contact or "mutually agreed" exchange locations, etc.  Best to review such clauses in advance and see if they can be locked down and not open to abuse.

One of the best handbooks for you would be William Eddy's Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder.  You will need local advice from an experienced and proactive lawyer.  You need more than someone who files forms and holds hands.
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worriedStepmom
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 1157


« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2018, 09:26:49 AM »

Have you considered using a parenting app? I've used cozi.com before, and I know there are others.

These kinds of apps have calendars, so that you can mark things like appointments or after school activities.  They also have areas where you can leave messages for the other parent - asking questions or providing more information.

If you can get him to agree to use this - or make it clear that you will ONLY be using the app - then you can set up a rule to dump all his emails to a folder where they are stored for documentation but you never ever ever have to look at them. 

My H's uBPDxw set up an app to use so that there was documentation of their interactions (she doesn't know how to back up texts).  She puts all the reasonable sounding requests in the app, while continuing to send tons of abuse via text.  H laughed and said she's now just proven she knows the difference between acceptable and unacceptable behavior.  He chooses not to look at her texts a lot of the time.

If you don't think this is a workable solution, then you might want to consult with the local police department and see if your ex has crossed the line to harassment.  50-100 emails in a single night, all spouting abuse?  That seems to me like something they should be able to address.
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