First Post - sad heart

[Music Ace]

Not really sure what to say here, but I am looking for ideas, reassurance, and to regain my sanity and have my tummy settle.  AND, in all reality, I'd like my family together for Christmas - to play a game of sequence and enjoy laughter and pie.  I'd like to not have to remind myself to not be sad for my daughter and I'd like truly to believe she is better off without us as she claims she is (amongst the drug users and leeches).  I know so many others know this and understand this, but I'm just never sure how to say things right - I always trigger, even when I say nothing and especially when I say nothing.  I love her dearly, but know I don't have to accept the verbal abuse.  She blocks us on all forms of media, then viciously accuses us of ignoring and abandoning her.  It's a no win situation, I know.  This is absolutely not fun for me, and I simply can't even imagine what is in her brain that causes her to think and experience things the way she has expressed that she does.

I recognize I cannot help her without her asking and without her being interested/willing to accept help (mine or other's) ... .but thank goodness she is able to so eloquently remind me of my incredible inability to be helpful - lest I forget the vicious email reminder of the previous month's rant. (That was typed with a smile - a first in the last few hours - so YAY : )

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Harri]

Hi and welcome.  I am so sorry.  I can hear the pain in your words.  I am glad you are reaching out to us for support.  We can do that here.  We have lots of parents going through similar struggles who have walked the same path before you and some who are just starting out. 

How old is your daughter?  Has she been diagnosed?  If not, how did you find out about BPD?   What kind of support system do you have?

You are not alone.  As you settle in here I hope you post and feel free to jump into other threads.  It can be a great help and will definitely build a support network... .we never have too much  of that.

[Music Ace]

Thanks Harri - She is 28. She self diagnosed herself with BPD. In dealing with the chaos in our world from her husband's death earlier this year (suspected fentanyl) and seeking therapy and support for myself, my therapist also suggested she may fit the criteria for BPD without realizing that our daughter had said the same thing. Since her admission of addiction and my further research, with her support, on BPD ... .I have met with a therapist over a few months (I've graduated , but have taken advantage once so far of her standing offer to come back whenever I need to), and I regularly attend Naranon meetings.  My family doctor is aware of the situation and is supportive. Our younger daughter is strong and amazing and tolerates her sister but will call her out on stuff or ignore her as is necessary for her sanity.  My husband is a wonderful person, but handles things differently. When our oldest rants or attacks, he will hand it right back.  I disagree with that approach ... .but since my approaches with her clearly work as well as his ... .then really, I probably need to be less 'judgey' on that : ).

There are days when I just need to be reminded ('cause it doesn't always work when I do it) that I am a good person.  And, yes, I do believe I am.  But I still want to run away and hide sometimes ... .and just turn off the crazy for a bit.

Thank GOD for Naranon. Thank God that she lives 1 1/2 hours away.  Thank God that I'm not on social media.  And thank God that she hasn't gone at any of our other relatives/mutual friends/employers so that I don't have concerns about that issue. 

My overarching question (that I truly believe does not have an easy one-size-fits-all answer) is, at which point do I just cut my losses.  The last vicious email was unprovoked as she blocked me about 4 days ago after wishing me good luck at a concert I was performing in (ok - I got that it was sarcasm AFTER I was blocked).  And the anger is directed almost completely at my husband/her dad.  But geez Louise ... .when does it ever stop.

She may or may not be in therapy currently (addicts do have a tendency to lie - that is one of their only guarantees).  The therapist may or may not believe I am the root of all evil (or perhaps her dad is). 

1. how/when/do I respond to vicious unprovoked emails ... .my thoughts are - thanks for letting me know how things are going. I miss it when I don't hear from you. Sounds like you have a lot going on.  Glad you have friends who are so helpful.   and ignore all the negative accusatory stuff.  or say the same thing and lay out the boundaries again.
2. when do I just NOT respond?

Thanks again.  I'm not dealing with the negativity well ... .but I'll be back on my game in a couple of days.  I'm in sad, paranoid, protective mode now.

[medianeh]

I am in the same position as you are.  Right now there is minimal contact between my dd26 and myself.

My therapist told me less is more.  He said less detail in message to her.

My daughter is BPD and an addict as well, he told me to respond to her like this:

"I love you, and I care about you.  I don't think your choices are helping you."

That's it.  Nothing more. 

I agree, less is more.  The less you say, the less she will be able to argue with you about.

[Huat]

Hello MusicAce.

Having to deal with all this certainly is not fun!

We have had to deal with drug addiction in our family but, even though our uBPD daughter dabbled with drugs in her teens (and I have always wondered if that dabbling affected her maturing brain), it was our son we almost lost a few short years ago.  We only have the 2 and both of them have (are!) given us a run for our money.  My husband and I are in our mid/late 70's... .should be our turn to be looked after, wouldn't you say?

So, with all that said, know that it took me a long time (too long!) to get a grip... .to look reality in the face... .and deal with what is... .damn well IS! 

Your words... ."I'd like my family together for Christmas... .to play a game of Sequence and enjoy laughter and pie." Those were dreams I used to have, too.  Then I realized that I was only setting myself up for disappointment because it just wasn't going to happen.   There was no magic switch to change us to that kind of family.

I like Medianeh's post.  Basically her therapist is telling her of the technique (for want of a different word) - "JADE"... .don't Justify... .don't Argue ... .don't Deny... .don't Explain.  As she writes... ."The less you say, the less she will be able to argue with you about."  Surely not easy to do because words do hurt... .especially when they come from a child we love... .and so want them to love us back.

You wonder about "cutting your losses."  Well... .maybe look at it as... .making a change.  Bottom line, you are the only one you have any control over... .change has to start with you.  You, MusicAce, should work on becoming more empowered.  I received vicious email-after-email from my daughter.  Every time I would respond with simple... ."I love you's"... .that seemed to enrage her even more... .and the emails got worse.  I finally told her this was unacceptable and blocked her.  I had to protect myself.

This is indeed a difficult journey we are on with our troubled offspring.  We were teachers for them when they were young... .and as time goes by we will still continue to teach... .be it by example.

Hope to hear more from you, MusicAce.  Coming to this forum a few years ago and participating in it has truly helped me to work out what needed to be worked out.  Well... .a work-in-progress... .but it is all about moving forward in a positive manner.

Huat

[Hyacinth Bucket]

Hi Music Ace,

Welcome to the family. I'm glad you found us. I too am in a similar situation. My daughter is BPD and an addict, we have minimal contact.

I typically refuse to respond to anything abusive.  In fact I've been responding very little at all and she has been contacting me less and less. For my daughter any response can be reinforcement. With no encouragement it becomes fruitless for her to keep contacting me and ranting at me or trying to get me to do things for her.

It's a hard line to walk.  One thing I've found that helps is always waiting at least 24 hours to respond. I can make sure if I do respond it's for the right reasons.

[Music Ace]

Thank you everyone - your words are kind, helpful, doable, and ring true.

Medianeh - your advice of "less is more" reaffirms what I have had luck with before. I've been able to respond more effectively with guidance of SWOE book and a therapist.  Yet when the nasty comes, I forget my learned skills - so thank you.

Huat - JADE - brilliant. And I'm not sure I'll ever NOT want my 'normal' family back ... .but perhaps I need to adjust my timelines for these expectations to NO TIMELINES .  Perhaps they will happen someday, but for now I will need to appreciate the other joy/gifts I have in my life.  I, however, will relapse on my recovery/learning just like the addict.  Wallowing in self pity gets me no where, but it is my 'go to' emotion when a surprise attack happens apparently.  Thank you for reminding me to have reasonable expectations and for the acronym JADE.

Hyacinth - After recent suicide threats and picture messages of her having cut herself and blaming us for it (they were superficial wounds - so it was actually reassuring  - how bizarre that THAT is my/our world) ... .I told her that I would not respond to negativity nor accusatory tirades/messages.  So I haven't.  Or I simply draw out of her rants (if they are not attack rants), things that perhaps she may have reasonable concerns about (based on my SWOE readings, etc) and comment on those.  I now take a lot of time to formulate my conversations with her (she only communicates via messaging - thank God - again, as odd as that is, but it gives me time); however, a reminder that 24 hours is reasonable to respond rather than react.  BUT, not responding is (in my business/mind) quite simply RUDE, and I really have a hard time with not responding. But I have done it and will be able to do it again.  She is 28, has lost her husband less than a year ago, who died without a will, whose estate is currently being sued for about 10 million dollars - these are all things we would most happily help a family member or friend get through because it would be overwhelming for ANYONE to deal with just ONE of these things ... .but try all (and FAR MORE) and throw in possible BPD ... .well, that is NOT going to go easily let alone well.  So, thank you for the 24 hour gift.

[Harri]

Hi Music Ace and thank you for sharing more of your story.  You daughter is dealing with a lot yet so are you and the rest of your family.  I am not sure how to answer your questions about how to answer but I really like what the others have said. 

It sounds like you have a great support network and I hope you will include us in that as well.  We get it here as you can tell.

If you want to read more on JADE here is an article: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0;all

Take care

[Music Ace]

If you want to read more on JADE here is an article: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0;all

Thank you so much @Harri ... .that was a great thread to read.

AND, there is quite the crazy story to tell with her world.  We've both 'joked' about writing it down.  No one would ever believe it .  But now that I'm learning about addiction and BPD type behaviours ... .I'm not sure exactly how much I should believe. 

[once removed]

what happened with the vicious email? you dont have to copy and paste it or anything, but can you give us a good sense? what led up to it?

[Only Human]

Hi Music Ace, and welcome to BPD Family =)

Yet when the nasty comes, I forget my learned skills

I'm popping in quickly to comment on what you said here, and to say ME TOO! 

I hope to hear more from you. You've found a great place for support, learning, and venting 

~ OH

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Tinkerbelle]

Dear Sad Heart,
I feel your pain and it feels like a never-ending gut wrenching grief. I am in a similar situation but with DD’s young children too... I am also doing Alanon since I have such a hard time letting go of the guilt and to deal with her verbal abuse.
Tinkerbelle

[Music Ace]

Well Once Removed - she's been upset (okay vehemently angry) with her Dad, but our other daughter and I were still 'in' (our term for not being blocked by her on messaging). She's upset with her Dad because he did something to her house so that she is unable to sell it (she says he sabotaged it) - but she stopped speaking to him for 2 1/2 months earlier this year because he put too much pressure on her to SELL the house.  

Her husband died in the house (possible fentanyl), although they were living apart at the time, she still had a great deal of difficulty getting the house ready - but she wouldn't allow us to help with the house at all because of her concern for what we would find/come into contact with - various drugs/chemicals was what she explained.  At that point, although odd, we had no reason to believe otherwise. We knew he had a drug problem (ketamine and heroin ... .who knows what else) - but he was soo brilliant, even smarter than her.  We truly kept hoping things could be worked out.  Anyway, she and her Dad had a good heart to heart around August and they 'made up', but more importantly, he was able to understand why it was so difficult for her to get the house ready with the anxiety and PTSD etc from just being in the house. So, suddenly I was OUT.  With the help of a therapist and Naranon, I was patient and found my way back to her (or she to me?).  I learned how to speak more carefully and set some boundaries without anger.  Then she is mad as a hatter at my husband again, because he turned off her hot water.  She had asked for his advice (although one of the deals we have both made with her is that we will never OFFER advice unless she specifically asks for it ... .because that is one of her things she'll throw back at us) and she said he refused to provide anything useful ... .so therefore, he must be intentionally withholding information.  And it spiraled ridiculously from there.  He has been to the house 3 x since our son in law passed away in March. Once to change the locks, once to replace a window (which had to be broken to get into the house), and once to cut the grass and tidy up the yard.  Because of his fear of coming into contact with fentanyl or any other substance (2 months after our son in law died there, another 'friend' who was 'helping clean' suffered a medical emergency - aka fentanyl OD and was dying in my daughter's arms as the paramedics arrived and were able to revive her), he only went in the house if necessary.  The house was then cordoned off because of suspected drug production (we were thinking - meth lab, gah watching too much Breaking Bad?), police released it later that week to her. Most of the paraphernalia remained on scene.  The powder throughout the house was shocking before and after police had been through TWICE.  She refused to let her inlaws come to the house to help ... .she claims she didn't want them exposed to the idea of how awful it had become for him (I keep hoping that this was true and was a kind thing in her mind).  

OK - back on track - so after accusing him of pressuring her to sell, she then flips and accuses him of sabotaging her hot water (and subsequently when he told her to check the stove to see if she had any gas, since she had no heat either, she accused him of messing with the gas).  Her friend (the only mutual contact we have, besides each other) figures out that someone has turned the gas off from the outside.  Our daughter thanks ME for the suggestion of checking the stove and we're bestest buddies AGAIN! My husband, her mutual friend, and I figure that someone (like the police concerned about a meth lab or the 'friend' that she kicked out of the house and threw all his stereo equipment outside in the rain) may well have turned it off out of safety or spite. NOPE, she is adamant that it was her dad/my husband.

We had just had a lovely visit with her on her 28th bday in October, just before she figured out she had no hot water (I told her in August when we were doing some cleaning). We got her a beautiful card. After the attack on him, and then it turned back on to me (I was no longer a bestie then!), she sends us a picture of the card destroyed and then the bloodied marks of cutting (although as awful as it may sound to others - really, they were superficial wounds - not getting excited about it, we've already been in the comatose ER game once before). She tells us that she and her therapist were talking about what awful people we were and how sad and odd that we never stepped in to help during all this time. And that the common factor for every suicide attempt has been a conversation with US, so we are clearly the problem and that she is going to stop talking to us for her own safety.  5 days later, vicious email, why would we abandon her, she was in crisis and reached out to us only to be ignored.  I get back in and our younger daughter gets back in (Dad still isn't).  We get our normal child/sister ... .including one who apologizes for being so self involved and not even being aware of what has been happening in our lives. SO, I open up and tell her things that I'm doing to take care of me ... .particularly playing my instruments again and being in a small musical group.  She asks where we are playing but says she can't make it, but if someone could tape it, she'd like to hear it.  WHOA - that is one NON-SELF ABSORBED person.  SO, I took it.  We could even talk about my husband and how the gas issue couldn't have involved him but that it was something she'd have to sort out that I wasn't getting into it.  Then 2 weeks ago, I was at a rehearsal so I didn't respond, she wished me luck at a concert (okay - I missed that it was sarcasm LOL) and then promptly blocked me? BUT, there was no vicious attack, no msgs or nastiness ... .she just stopped communicating, but stopped talking to her sister too at the same time.  It was odd, even for her. BUT, I took this as a positive because I  had explained that I would NOT be involved with nastiness or hate and she didn't send a rant. Our younger daughter and I both sent messages, but they weren't delivered.  Then my husband and I (sister was safe again) got 'the' email.  It was primarily directed at him - that we did nothing, he sabotaged, threw the angry (but truthful) words that he spoke to her - she threw them right back at him ... .but nothing new, nothing he hadn't already been hit with ... .because there CAN'T be anything new, because he has not had anything to do with her nor she with him since November 1st(ish).

Oh GOD, it is so ridiculous.

So, I gave it some time and responded with.

"I love you. I miss you when you aren't speaking to me. It's great you got the mold taken care of.  Hopefully this and the help of your friend will get things moving the way you'd like."
(she has had issues with mold in the house she is trying to sell and we talked about it. In her accusatory email, she said that her friend was willing to spend all this time to help her solve the mold issue, but her family was no where - just like normal. She said she was willing to do anything ... .ANYTHING ... .just to get away from Toronto/her house/her apartment ... .she wants to be AWAY.).  

Her response was

"Lol. Go to therapy for yourself and take responsibility for your own actions."

Well, I graduated from therapy, but my therapist is awesome and said I'm welcome back anytime but that I've got lots of great resources and I'm doing great in how I'm handling things especially how I'm owning my part of things and NOT owning other people's .  I know that what my daughter says may well reflect what it is that she feels she should be doing (or not doing) and that she's projecting it on me.  SO by golly - I'd love it if she'd go to therapy and take responsibility for her part of our relationship and her impact in the world.

There - my epic tome of ridiculousness.  It is but one brief synopsis of what so many here are dealing with.  I apologize that it's so wordy - that's just me ... .but there is so much to tell about what has been going on.  It is truly unbelievable.  My chiropractor (whose wife is a psychiatric nurse), always 'looks forward' to the next installment.  He has said, you seriously have to write this down.  Parts of me wish I did.  It has all the makings of a movie.

SO - thanks for asking, Once Removed, I hope that kind of gave a bit of a background and what's in her/our world. I appreciate someone caring/being interested.  All the people in our world are sick to death of the drama and insanity or are absolute scared for my sanity.  But, honestly, most days ... .I'm doing OK.  : ) - so yay ME.

[Harri]

Hi Music Ace!  Yay you!   

I too think you are doing very well in dealing with everything, especially with not taking responsibility for other peoples stuff.  To state the obvious, you are in the midst of a very complicated situation but seem to be navigating it quite well.

Your remark that your D's wounds were superficial do not sound awful to me.  I hear acceptance and the sad reality that you are too used to this. 

Again, I am glad you are reaching out here for support. 

[Music Ace]

@Tinkerbelle - thank you for taking the time to comment. I've followed your thread and my heart breaks for you and your feelings of self doubt/guilt.  I am here to tell you that you've got this!  We can only do the best we can do at each point in our lives.  Alanon/Naranon 12 steps will help guide you as you travel on this part of your journey - use the information that is most helpful to you and move the speed that you can and attend as many meetings as you can/feel comfortable. I recognize that I have 2 beautiful, brilliant daughters - 1 of whom has chosen a different path that I would have chosen for her and I fear for her life ... .the other has chosen a different path than was expected and it is exciting to see where her journey takes her.  But your daughter has chosen her path too. Like us, you have offered support all the way along. We make mistakes, that goes without saying, but the 12 steps and good living reminds us to recognize that we have made mistakes and can make amends ... .and then you have to be able to give yourself permission to move on.  You can't change what was, AND you can't change anyone else ... .but you CAN change how you respond and react. It sounds like that is exactly what you're trying to do and the answers/support you're looking for from this group.  AND, it sounds like you're in exactly the right place.  Thanks for giving me that inspiration.

[Music Ace]

@Only Human - thanks for the welcome and the commiseration .  I sometimes think that perhaps I wallow in self pity a bit too much (aka venting), but I also think I feel the need to do it because it's just so darned surreal.  Like seriously, this is happening ... .like in real life, like in MINE?  Here, my story is similar to so many others. There is definitely no shock value, so I may be actually just able to ask about responding to things rather than almost taking pleasure in telling all the shocking tales. If I'm looking for answers, my storytelling is acceptable in my mind here ... .but if I'm just whining, I should probably be moving past that here (and in my actual life) as there are people in much MUCH tougher situations (my kid claims to be a millionaire - and she's probably close with their investments and and AND, she does not live in my house or within an hour's drive, AND, I do still have contact with one mutual friend, and she knows how to reach us if necessary). So I have to remember to keep moving forward, especially when I hit bumps in the road.  Dwelling may feel 'good' at the time, but it keeps me sadly rooted in whatever angst I'm experiencing ... .but it's not the best approach for me and my health (mental and physical).  So hopefully I'll keep tapping in here for the support and learning and I'll try to pace myself on the venting (for my own sanity LOL).  Thanks again, OH!

[Only Human]

I'm all too familiar with wallowing in self-pity, MusicAce and, like you, I know it's best to keep moving forward. Some days it's easier than others, that's for sure.

So hopefully I'll keep tapping in here for the support and learning

I hope so too, we all support each other and learn together.

so I may be actually just able to ask about responding to things

Ask away! We are here to help =)

~ OH

[once removed]

was the email exchange the last interaction the two of you had, and how long ago was it?

how are you holding up today?

[Music Ace]

Thanks for checking in Once Removed. 

She sent me a text (if I'm blocked on one texting application, I take that as I'm blocked on all) on Sunday night at 11:14 (I go to bed by 11:00 pm usually).

"Honestly you guys are like the worst parents. Not even just parents not great people in general. I don't know how you get through your days knowing how much you've ruined."

I happened to be up ... .so I breathed and texted one minute later with ... ."You sound frustrated with me, help me understand what's going on". 

She responded with "I'll just set myself up for disappointment again. Like you guys might actually care about me"

I followed up with "That would feel bad if you constantly worry you're going to be let down." and then "But even if it doesn't always show, I do care."  and finally  "But I'd like to do a better job, I'd need help from you though"

I have a feeling that people are going to tell me here (and anywhere else) that I did a good job with my responding without aggravating and carefully validated her without selling my soul.  And, although that may be all good and well and feel good, I still feel like crap because I can't talk to my daughter like a normal human being.  I have to watch everything I say, I have to validate minute specks of her reality while ignoring the rest of her comments that are blatantly WRONG and said only to ... .well ... .only to wind me up (which she is consistently successful in doing) and inspire me to second guess myself. 

But, I keep trying.

Until she gets some emotional/mental/verbal retraining, we're still riding the roller coaster ... .cause I can't solve this for both of us, I can only do me.  So I don't escalate her in the moment ... .but she still ends up 'hating' me or finding fault with something I've done or that my poor husband (who isn't as diplomatic as I : ) has done in the past.

I told her that I was going to have to go to bed by midnight.  We 'chatted' until then ... .which amounts to her telling me that she is trying to wean herself off her drug of addiction and sending me pictures of the mold that is in her house that she is trying to sell and the heaved floor that is destroyed.  It wasn't a horrible conversation, but nor was it fun or 'normal' as conversations go in my mind.  At 12:00, I reminded her "I'm heaind to bed now. It's been nice to talk to you. I hope he's (the friend she spoke of) got some recommendations for you to talk to people in the area or somebody does" ... .followed by "I'll hope for updates soon" at 12:01.

Earlier this morning around 7:00 am (she tends to sleep all day and be awake all night, so sometimes she's still awake as I'm getting up), I send her "Sending you love this morning and always."

Haven't heard back from her via any messaging, I'm still blocked on one application, and no email received.  BUT, no negative stuff either.

You asked how I'm holding up ... .I'm fine.  I truly am.  I have limited expectations and am crushed beyond recognition at the loss of the daughter I 'had' and the incredible potential she had ... .but I'M FINE.  She's the one that's not fine.  I keep taking care of me.  AND, I found myself wallowing when reading some of the entries here.  I came on hoping to find hope ... .that there is a chance that my beautiful child will eventually want to and BE ABLE TO make changes in her life.  I also secretly hoped that there would be a possibility of 'growing out of it' ... .almost like a hormonal thing since it appeared to be a lot of girls seemed to exhibit signs as puberty hit.  But, sadly, that theory is simply that I suspect.

My kid is so smart, and so mean.  What part is her, what part is mental illness, what part is drug addiction, what part is true?  I love her ... .but I don't want her sucking the life out of me ... .but if no one else stays by her, what chance does she have. If she can't see stable ... .how can she become stable.  If she is okay living in squalor (doesn't matter that her rent is $1800/month), then why do I need to worry about it?  She calls our home jail, so it is unlikely she'll ever dark on my doorstep for any reason. ... .but yet we get along some days, and before, we got along most days.  She and her dad would text EVERY DAY ... .who had the best prices on fruit, whether her bus to work for the Toronto Maple Leafs - yes that Canadian Hockey team - was coming if it was 1 minute late.  She spoke to him more than she spoke to me.  We share geeky math humour - all of us.  AND THEN THE DRUGS ... .or was it?  We all got along so much better when she moved out on her own.  She had her own space and found her own way.  She wasn't happy in the constricting live we lived ... .she had so much more she wanted in life ... .our small town was holding her back.  She credits our small community with giving her loving and caring and kindness though ... .just very narrow minded and backwoods (we have few people of different races, religions, genders, etc ... .we were 'boring').

So, I'll wait ... .again.  And when I get accustomed to the no contact, I'll enjoy the freedom for a bit ... .then I'll fret again.  I'll try to figure out the perfect time to wait before contacting.  I'll try to find the perfect way to contact.  I'll try to find the perfect words to say.  The magical words ... .  to make everything right.  I bet no one else has EVER wished for that LOL.

Then I'll question, why am I so invested in this relationship when she isn't ... .or isn't she?  Maybe I'm just not approaching it right?  If she truly has a disease (addiction) or a mental illness (BPD or PTSD or anxiety) ... .how can I abandon that when our society does such a good job of not being able to solve things.

And my heart will break once again, when I read ANYTHING that says that BPD is based on trauma and bad parenting.  Although undiagnosed ... .my father was a brutally abusive man (not to me, but both my older brothers - I never witnessed it, I was protected and he was out of our house when I was 6), my one brother was an abusive angry (possible BPD?) individual, my whole family has experienced addiction (gambling, drugs, alcohol).  EXCEPT FOR ME.  I'm the one that made it through unscathed.  I worked really hard to stay away from situations and monitor my activities.  I chose my husband of 31 years with a clear understanding of the difficulties that were in my past. My 2nd brother, after coming out of a residential program, made me promise to tell my close to adult daughters the weakness in our family.  AND STILL I COULDN'T PROTECT HER. She did not choose to live a life along the path that I travelled (although our younger daughter has).  BUT, she went in this life she has chosen with full knowledge ... .and perhaps BECAUSE of full knowledge, or perhaps niaivity, or ... .well who knows.  But there is she, not here, not there safely, and not there happy.  BUT, also not ready (she says she's not able) to make any effort to make any changes beyond ... .well I'm addicted to this drug, so I'm going to wean myself off it, but I'm not making ANY other changes ... .so yah, that should be enough.  I've got this.  Well honey, it would be great if you did ... .but so far, you don't.  BUT, unless you figure out that every time you try the same thing, and you get the same result ... .um ... .maybe it's time to try something different.

And maybe ... .just MAYBE, it's not me, nor your dad, nor your lawyer, nor real estate agent withholding information or giving you bad advice.

Well - clearly I'm not making it to bed by 11:00 tonight (it's 12:26 am) ... .and clearly, I needed a rant (which I was unaware I needed).  So rant done.  I have way too much good stuff to do in my life tomorrow, to waste it being tired because I was whiny and bitchy.  So I'm going to head to bed, say a prayer as I try really hard to continue to find a way back to a high power and trust in something besides myself ('cause that clearly has NOT been successful), and pat my cat (my husband is on a wee vacation at our remote and oh so peaceful cabin - I don't get to pat him LOL).

To that folks that read my wordy message AGAIN - thanks!  I really do feel good and I rather like me most days. I love my husband and my younger daughter - those are easy things to do.  I really enjoy my job and my friends.  I love my older daughter, but she's work! I just don't know what to do to keep that lines of communication open ... .or sometimes why I should even bother.  But I don't think I could ever give her up - cold turkey (HEY ... .MAYBE I JUST FOUND MY WEAKNESS/ADDICTION ... .gaaaahhhhhhh - I didn't make it through unscathed).

Happy HUMP DAY!

[Good2behere]

Hi,

I haven't posted a lot here, but I check in from time to time.

We used to live in Arizona, and I can totally relate to feeling like you're in an episode of Breaking Bad. We lost a family member (40 yr old sibling) over a year ago because he was around some truly horrible people. At some point there will be a trial -- it has been delayed yet again. I am still in profound shock and grief some days.

But our dxBPDd who is now going on 25 is doing so much better than she was. I think that her angry rants in previous years were mostly fueled by her substance use. We had to get her away from a terrible boyfriend who got her (and his own father? who are these people?) hooked on heroin and then his mother decided to make our daughter go to a methadone clinic. So we got her out of there and on a plane, but in our current State, there is no real medical detox program, so we had to do cold turkey for her on high doses of heroin, methadone, weed, and alcohol. She looked skeletal. And in the background the boyfriend would be calling/texting us to let her have the drugs because if we didn't she'd start cutting. And that would make us "sh*** parents." Yes. We, who are not giving her drugs, are hearing parenting advice from someone who sells her once prized possessions and who didn't call 911 when his own dad was OD'ing and died. We are the ones who can't be trusted. We are the ones who don't know what we're doing. The addict can be the most self-righteous, judgmental person you've ever met, all while they are accusing you of being that very thing. Crazy.

The one thing she couldn't stop was alcohol, and after we had to have her leave our home and go to a half-way house, she would flip from lovey-dovey to vicious, and that's when I knew she was drunk. I had been texting her once a week to see how she was. One day she showed up for work drunk, she had been cutting and they saw the blood and fired her. She blamed all of this on me. Because ... .wait for it ... .I had texted her that day after MONTHS of not hearing from me "OUT OF THE BLUE" which "messed her up". She had no memory of me texting her every single week with answers from her.

When she was sober again, I said, "Do you really believe that I had not texted you for months?" She sheepishly admitted that she remembered it later, and has no idea why she said that. So, no matter what-- whether you are in contact with your dd or not, saying all the right things or not, if she is hi-jacked by a substance, she will say things that are just not true and hurl all sorts of angry resentment at you.

You ARE talking to her like a normal human being. She is the one who is not talking to you in a normal way. The way you are talking to her is not because you did this to her. It's simply the best way for you to keep your own nervous system from getting over-activated by how she is treating you. Even if she doesn't respond well or calm down or act normal, at least only one of you is dysregulated.

In my husband's extended family there are three other people with BPD. All were formally dxed by different therapists. None of them were raised by the same parents, they are not the same ages, nor gender, and did not even grow up in the same state. They all had completely different childhoods. But they are uncanny in the identical ways they talk and behave. I feel that the "invalidating environment" theory will need some further refining.

We just saw dd last week for a short two-day visit, and she is doing SO much better than she was a few years ago. So, yeah, we cut our losses, but all was not lost, if that makes sense.

I never think "oh, happy days are here again to stay!" But I just sort of go from, "Things are really good-- for now." (Knowing that this can change at any time). The "for now" (Marsha Linehan?) that goes along with "radical acceptance" makes all the difference for me. It doesn't feel like giving up and being resigned. I guess it feels more like I've gotten past false hope (analyzing, bargaining, fervently praying, etc.) and have moved into some sort of state of grace where I only have tentative plans, while at the same time, not feeling like I have to love her any less than I did when I had firm plans.

If a fantasy about happy family togetherness comes up, I let it play for a little while, and then let that go if I catch myself in time. Otherwise, I get really depressed if I keep re-playing it. So, maybe I'm not letting go of her, per se, but I'm letting go of my thoughts and imaginings surrounding her. I still cry a lot. I still ask why? a lot, even when I know I won't get an answer. I feel reassured when I see how much other families are hurting and bewildered and under oppressive situations. I stop questioning my worth as a parent quite so hard, and feel more able to reach out.

Your image of Christmas pie and games sounds great to me! You sound to be full of good ideas and fun. That part hasn't been beaten down. You're still you.

G2B

[Music Ace]

Good2behere ... .thank you.  With tears streaming down my face and my shortest message EVER.

Thank you. Thank YOU.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Good2behere]

I'm so glad you found help and solace here. It has been a relief for me to know that it's here, and all of these lovely people (now including you, as well) even if I'm not actively posting.