Re: First psychiatrist appointment. (Part 2)

[boogs152]

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I feel on occasions in the last two weeks that he has wished to be more intimate with me. Perhaps a kiss but he hasn’t initiated that. He’s terrified of rejection even though I would never reject him.

I feel that in the past I’ve always been the one to reach out in that way. An olive branch... .But I’m waiting for him to overcome his pride and make a move in my direction.

The borderline world is so vastly different to mine. Perhaps if you asked him his side of the story then we may be engaging in  an entirely different perspective.

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[Bnonymous]

Hi Boogs152,

That must be really hard on you. *sympathises*  It's a natural human instinct to want to reach out and offer hugs and touching when someone we love is hurting. And it's also very natural to feel painful rejection when those overtures are not welcomed.

Physical affection is very important; it provides reassurance, strengthens bonds, reduces stress etc. It is really difficult to be deprived of this for a significant length of time and six weeks is a very long time for something like this. I'm sorry you're going through this.

There are many reasons why someone (with or without BPD) might not welcome physical contact when they are not feeling their best mentally/emotionally. I'm going to provide a few examples - I am not suggesting that any of these apply to your partner, but just showing that there are so many cases where it doesn't have anything to do with the other person, and isn't really a rejection (even though it naturally feels that way).

Some people find that stress hormones affect their bodies, for example making lights brighter or sounds louder. For some of these people, tactile sensitivity increases and touch feels physically painful or uncomfortable - this is something they have no control over and is not a choice.

Some people were raised in environments where affection was withdrawn when they were perceived as "naughty". This can have lifelong effects. It can lead people to feel like they don't deserve physical affection when they aren't at their best. It can become so strong and powerful that it reaches the level of an inhibition or even a taboo - "I must not be touched when I feel bad" - so that it feels wrong to them when it happens and they physically recoil.

Some people find their fight-or-flight instinct is so high that any touch feels like an impediment to flight. Again, this is something they have little control over, and their bodies have an involuntary response to shake off anything that could impede movement or block escape. It's a primitive, non-conscious response.

Some people have histories of physical and/or sexual abuse and find that when physical contact coincides with emotional dysregulation (not causing it, just happening at the same time as it) then they become very vulnerable to flashbacks. For these people, emotional dysregulation leads a strong urge to protect their bodies and a need for physical space.

Those are just a few examples. Like I said, I'm not suggesting any of this is going on with your partner - I just think it can be useful to consciously remind ourselves of some of the reasons why the apparent rejection is actually nothing to do with us. Because it does feel like rejection when a loved one pushes away physical affection or comfort from us; that is a natural response and it takes a lot of conscious effort to override it (or, alternatively, to accept our feelings of rejection but, at the same time, acknowledge that those feelings don't mean rejection is happening).

Obviously, it is important to respect a person's need for physical space (and you appreciate this and are doing so). The problem is what to do when that phase has passed and the person does want physical affection again. The person who refused it can feel too vulnerable or embarrassed to reach out, or they can find that they just don't know how to communicate (verbally or physically) that things have changed and they want that contact now. Meanwhile, the partner has come to expect rejection and so becomes understandably reluctant to reach out again. This is when things get tricky.

My boyfriend cannot bear to be touched unless he is feeling relaxed and secure. I have come to understand this and I don't physically reach out when he is upset or on edge. When he is starting to calm down, I ask. I say "May I hug you?"  or "May I hold your hand?". Some people will cringe reading this, as it might sound overly subservient, but it really isn't like that at all. My boyfriend is a survivor of sexual abuse and a very violent childhood; he has also experienced a great deal of violence in his adult life. Basically, he has very little experience of anyone acknowledging (let alone respecting) his physical boundaries or his ownership of his body - I am trying to give him some experience of that. Plus, asking first removes the physical trigger of spontaneous contact. This approach works well for us.

I'm not suggesting you try it with your partner, because your situation is likely different. Also the "May I... .?" thing could come across as sarcastic if suddenly adopted out of the blue! :-)

What I wouldn't do is ask "Do you want a hug/kiss?" because that puts the onus on their needs when they are likely to be feeling too vulnerable to admit to having needs at all. If you wanted to try the verbal approach, I'd focus it on what you want "I'd like to give you a hug right now - are you up for that?" so that the exposure is lessened for him.

Or, if the verbal thing doesn't work for you, keep trying physically (though not too often, if he doesn't respond well). Try little things at first. Try a quick squeeze of hand (then immediately let go). Try brushing back his hair. Try putting your feet in his lap when you're sat watching telly (or invite him to put his feet in your lap, and then, over days of doing this, work up to massaging them). Try a quick peck on the cheek as you're walking past him and heading into another room. Try small things like this until you're both feeling comfortable again with physical contact.

Whatever you decide to do, you may need to prepare yourself for rejection. Remember that you are the stronger one in the relationship - although you (like everyone else) will find rejection painful and upsetting, it is unlikely that you would find it completely annihilating, though your partner just might.

You are likely to be able to handle rejection better than he can, so it probably is going to have to be you that breaks the ice and does the reaching out. I understand that you feel it always is you and I appreciate that this is very unfair and unbalanced. It might be something the two of you can talk about and work on when he's in a better, more stable mental place. But, for now, I think you may need to accept that unbalance and accept the role of the strong one. I know it's hard and it isn't fair - we are here to listen and support you if you need to off-load about it.

What do you think?

[Radcliff]

Bnonymous has some great suggestions.  I especially liked the small, low-stakes physical contact.

That's great news that you got private insurance.  A month may seem like a long time, but it will pass.  Even if the wait is longer, I'd encourage you to stick with the pursuit of DBT.  It was developed with low-functioning pwBPD in mind, and its message of acceptance combined with the need for change is just the message to make a pwBPD feel supported through growth.  It's an impressive program.

RC

[boogs152]

I’m feeling so angry and betrayed at the moment. I feel cheated and mislead. Sometimes when I think back to a year ago when we first met everything seemed easy and positive. I thought he had a good hold on his condition and now I feel like he played a role to draw me in. Here I am one year later in a carer role with little thanks. I don’t do it for praise because his well-being is what matters to me but here I am at the bottom of the pile and all he does it look at me with disdain.

 I’ve made every effort to give him a calm safe environment to live in and made many many phone calls to help address his day to day concerns as well as seek out private health so he can get proper treatment soon. So many doctors banks lawyers telephone companies social workers and psychologists/psychiatrists have been spoken to on my behalf to try to clean up the mess in his life because he’s low functioning PwBPD.It’s such a slow hard slog.

Rationally I understand what’s really going on but I’m just so angry today. It was my birthday yesterday and it was shrouded in grey emotions.

I want to thank you all so much for contributing to this thread. I really really appreciate the enormous effort some of you go to share considerate responses. It’s heart warming to know that people really care so much. I’m just feeling so tired to even bother instigating some of the wonderful advice. I think I may have hit the end of the line with my relationship. I think he may have removed what shred of love was left between us. I’m devastated and sad.

[Bnonymous]

Hi Boogs152,

You sound utterly exhausted, which is not surprising given everything you have to deal with.

Is it possible for you to get some time for yourself? Ideally a day out, but even small things like a long hot bath would be something.

You may find that you have, indeed, reached a point where you've had enough, and that would be totally understandable. But it's also possible that you're feeling this way because your emotional energy has been so depleted - after some rest and self-care you might feel differently. Try not to feel under pressure to make any big decisions right away.

One thing I am trying to teach myself is that it is possible to say to myself "I have had enough today" without that having to lead to a decision about the rest of my life. If you've had enough today, try and take a break. Same goes for tomorrow. If you find the days you've had enough mounting up and a break doesn't change your feelings, then you may be right that you have had enough permanently. But don't feel that you have to decide all of your tomorrows in one go - that's a trap I keep falling into.

I'm sorry your birthday was clouded like that. Birthdays can really highlight the gap between how we hoped for things to be and how they are - it's supposed to be a day when you and your needs are centred, and, when that doesn't happen, when it's *still* all about them and you can't even get one day that's about you... .Things like this can make us painfully aware of just how drained and over-burdened we are feeling.

[boogs152]

Yes that’s good advice Banonymous. I’ll try to slow down and get some space.

The things is... .I haven’t mentioned yet that a few days ago he revealed something about himself that I was unaware of. I knew that he came from terrible childhood trauma of physical and sexual abuse. I knew that he had partaken in extreme violence as an adult against men. But what he revealed to me recently totally shocked me. I had no idea that he had partaken is even more extreme violence than he had already shared. I was shocked and frightened suddenly. It totally changed my view of him.
It goes against all my morals and I’m certain my family would be very concerned if they knew I was in relationship with someone with such a past.


But the confusing thing is... .other than his extreme moods and his stone walling I’ve never experienced him to be violent towards me in any way?

I mean we just had an argument and I finally told him some of my thoughts and all he did was put his hands over his face and cry?

We argued because I’m trying to convince him to see a psychologist that he LOVES... .she lives in another state and I’m trying to convince him to set up a session via Skype with her. He’s refusing. He’s says it’s because he can’t FEEL her through Skype? Can anyone enlighten me on this? What does that mean?

[Bnonymous]

Hi Boogs152,

I really do know what you're going through - I have been through the same thing with my boyfriend. He, too, is from a childhood background of having being subjected to extreme physical and sexual abuse. He, too, has been violent towards men. A few months ago, he told me how extreme this violence had been in his past (20+ years ago) and it was something that I found really hard to comprehend and to reconcile with the man I know and love. And, yeah, my family would be very concerned if they knew.

I felt very alone with dealing with the revelations. Because of their nature, there was no one I could talk to about it. I felt shell-shocked and unreal. I still don't think it's sunk in properly.

I was glad he told me though. Because, if he hadn't, there was no way that he could really have believed in my love for him, because he would always have been thinking "Would she still love me if she KNEW?" Now he knows the answer to that - yes, I still love him.

But there are times when I lie next to him in bed, watching him sleeping, all vulnerable and innocent, and remember the things that I know he did in his past. It shakes me up.

Their world is different to ours. I would guess that yours, like mine, was not only subjected to such extreme violence and sexual abuse, but knew little else? That it wasn't only something that happened to him but was something he was immersed in, his whole childhood world and way of life? That's how it was for mine anyway.

I had a traumatic childhood and suffered rape and sexual assault in my teens. But I also had family holidays in the country, a loving gran to put my school picture on her walls, a dad who read me bedtime stories etc. I had some normality in the mix. My boyfriend had no such normal experiences to counter the bad ones.

People who grow up in worlds like that can find it very hard to leave it behind and move into the ordinary worlds that the rest of us inhabit. People subjected to such extreme trauma can rage like toddlers in adult bodies, which can be very dangerous. They can also feel so profoundly unsafe that they have to attack with all their force because of how much danger they feel they are in - they can feel like they're fighting for their lives. Violence has been normalised for them. It is very very hard for those of us outside of that violent world to understand what it is like to live in it.

That said, most grow out of it. My boyfriend is not dangerous like that now, because time has helped, other experiences have started to balance the early ones, empathy has been developed, impulse control has improved etc.

A lot has changed in him and for him since then. For one thing, his present self is much more aware of bigger pictures now, e.g. of how individuals have families who love them - this awareness is a powerful inhibiting force countering his tendencies to violence, and it is something that took time to develop - he didn't have it in his 20s when he engaged in extremely violent acts - he does have it now.

What's the time-frame like with yours? How long ago in the past was it? Do you think there are differences between who he was then and who he is now?

You say that it goes against all your morals. The acts my boyfriend engaged in go against my morals too. But, and this is key for me, they also go against his morals - the person he is today knows and believes that those acts are wrong and would never engage in them now. Is that the case for your partner? Are the morals he holds nowadays different to the ones he held then?

Once the initial shock begins to wear off, you will be able to tell whether what you have heard is a deal-breaker for you or not. It's understandable if it is. This is a decision that is up to you and you alone. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

How did you respond to him when he told you?

I'll let someone else answer the rest of your post. I just wanted to answer the first half and share my experience so that you know you are not alone - I felt very alone when in a similar situation, so I want you to know that you're not. 

[Bnonymous]

Sorry to double-post. I got so involved in telling my own story that I forgot to ask the most important questions:

1/ Are you confident that you are safe with him?

2/ Are you confident that such violence is in his past and that he wouldn't do anything like that now?

[boogs152]

Thanks for responding. It’s a relief to know that you “get it”.

I didn’t know how to respond... .he told me so casually... .this is how he usually tells me “big things”.  Such revelations can come out of nowhere. It can also be a new truth that he chosen to withhold from a story I’ve heard many times before. But this time... .this time was different... .it left me speechless... .I couldn’t believe what I was hearing... .the words he was saying... .the static emptiness in my head that occurred as the words drained away my reactions. My immediate thoughts were. “Is he telling me this to scare me?” “Is he trying to frighten me away?”

He said the wasn’t proud of his past and the things he’d done. The worst of it seemed to happen probably 15 years ago or so. I think that he lacks such a sense of identity that he did certain things because others told him to.I wish to ask him about it again at some stage but I’m not sure
how.

He has definitely said on previous occasions that his violent past is behind him now... .as is the drug use... .but in truth all the “buffers” in his life are gone... .it’s hell... .neither of us are happy.  Every detail becomes an issue for him it never ends... .the light... .the sounds around our apartment... .his inability to get enough sleep... .the food he eats... .that we must sleep in seperate rooms etc.
it’s so stressful... .especially his sensitivity to noise. Anyway that’s another topic.

[Bnonymous]

Hi Boogs152,

Yeah, I totally get that sense of shock. How are you feeling about it now?

What would you say the "buffers" are?

It does sound very stressful and difficult. Does he have a diagnosis of any sensory processing issues (aside from the BPD)? When did he quit drugs? I'm asking because, with any addiction, it can sometimes take a year or more for the brain to settle back down after quitting - if he quit more recently than that, there is a faint possibility that the sensitivities might improve once that happens.

[boogs152]

He quit drug use two years ago. He’s also diagnosed with schizophrenia

Well to be honest, now that I know that you’ve been through similar things then the situation doesn’t feel so overwhelming. I must admit that one of the biggest hurdles for right now is re engaging in physical touch. I just can’t do it. I think about it all the time because I want to Instigate something but I just can’t bring myself to do it. There a wall there now. I think it’s self preservation. Things with him have been so hard. Sometimes I feel like it’s better to just gradually let the relationship break down.
He’s seeking treatment but he says he’s mostly doing it so that he can get a disability pension which I think he should be entitled to because hes low functioning BPD but he never says that he wishes to continue treatment to improve his life and relationships. This confuses me because he seems so unhappy all the time.

[Bnonymous]

I'm sorry to hear that, Boogs152. That's a hell of a lot to deal with (for both of you). No wonder you've been feeling so exhausted and overwhelmed!

I would guess he's not talking about seeking treatment to improve his life and relationships for two reasons. Firstly, his depression probably makes him unable to believe that change is possible. Secondly, his self-esteem is probably so low at the moment that just thinking about him improving things makes him too painfully aware of how bad they are now and may trigger toxic shame.

The way out of this is with baby steps and lots of positive reinforcement for these. He needs to learn to believe in his own abilities to take control of his life and mind and make things better for himself and for the relationship. And he needs to learn to feel pride in any steps he takes, no matter how small, to make things better (or even to stop them getting worse). Eventually that belief and pride will come to the forefront and the hopelessness and shame will recede - but I suspect that it is going to take a long time before it reaches that point - prepare yourself for a marathon, not a sprint, and do whatever you can to preserve your stamina for a long journey (as much you-time as you can get, reading, watching movies, spending time with friends, taking relaxing walks, working out, long soaks in the bath, whatever works to help you feel rested and rejuvenated).

I understand how you're feeling re touch. I have no suggestions other than those I already made. Having an idea what to do isn't necessarily going to help you to do it when your self-protective defenses/walls have sprung up. I understand how hard it is to get past them. Do what you can when you can. Some days you will feel more resilient than others - seize those days and don't pressure yourself on the others. You can't do everything at once and you have a lot on your plate already.

[boogs152]

Thanks Banonymous. I really appreciate your replies. I’m really struggling with being vulnerable with him. I’m drawn to him physically so much because I live who he is but I can’t bring myself to reach out to him. The walls are up... .it’s mental and emotional

[Bnonymous]

I'm sorry to hear that, Boogs152. I appreciate how difficult it can be to break through such self-protective walls. All I can say is something that you probably already know: the longer you leave it, the harder it is likely to be to break through them. Such walls seem to toughen and thicken the longer they're left. :-(

If you possibly can do something, anything, no matter how small (e.g. the quick squeeze of his hand, peck on the cheek, or brushing back his hair) sooner rather than later, it will help prevent the mental block from getting worse. I understand that you might not feel able to though.

[boogs152]

I’ve started that today. Two brief occasions. Once touching his back and another time a kiss on the cheek. He has done the same on several occasions. It’s awkward but we’re trying

[Bnonymous]

That's brilliant, Boogs152! I'm really pleased to hear that you've been able to break through the self-protective walls - I do know how hard it can be to do that. I'm also glad to hear that he's meeting you halfway on this and making an effort too. This is great news!

[boogs152]

In hindsight, I’m kind of glad that we have to rebuild our relationship slowly again. It helps the relationship have more substance and forces us to become more emotionally resourceful. When we first met,we moved very quickly and that was great but now through adversity we have to build our relationship from a different stand point. More based on “trust” and friendship. I’m finding that I’m talking less and in action more... .that doesn’t mean that my actions aren’t measured but I’m finding he responds better to small gestures that allow more space for him to appreciate me.

Makes me realise that there’s a greater intelligence at play?

[Radcliff]

This "small touch" approach really seems to be on the right track.  I was doing some thinking about why touching might be something he has a hard time with.  I don't claim any special knowledge, but here are some things I imagined might be at play:

* pressure to perform -- the touch may feel to him like it's setting an expectation that he'll say the right thing, touch back in the right way, etc.  It may be hard for him to believe that someone could just "give" touch freely as an act of affection.

* fear of withdrawal of affection -- it may be hard to relax and accept the touch, for fear that it will go away.

* fear of progression -- he may be afraid that it will progress to deeper forms of physical intimacy that he may be nervous about.

Do you think any of those might be relevant in your case?  All three would require patience and much repetition of small touches to address.  My thought is that if one of those reasons (or another reason) seems relevant, you might think about ways to create safety around the particular reason (although simple, small, platonic touches repeated steadily over time seem like they'd address all three!).

RC

[boogs152]

Thanks for your consideration Radcliffe. You have made some good points and I’m sure he has issues with all aspects of re engaging in developing a connection with me. One thing that sits in the back of my mind is that he was sexually abused by females when he was young and that on a conscious and subconscious level he finds intimacy challenging with me?

I think that if I don’t tread lightly and with consideration... .that  he may feel threatened and dominated by a woman easily?

[Radcliff]

One thing that sits in the back of my mind is that he was sexually abused by females when he was young and that on a conscious and subconscious level he finds intimacy challenging with me?

That seems very likely.

I think that if I don’t tread lightly and with consideration... .that  he may feel threatened and dominated by a woman easily?

In a word, yes.  But he may or may not have access to his feelings.  I imagine many people do this, but I think guys especially can stuff their feelings so deep that they don't know what they're feeling.  I think trauma survivors in general may do this.  So you both may be surprised by his reactions, which could be upsetting to both of you.  For a trauma survivor, when circumstances occur that appear similar to the trauma, there can be a physical and emotional reaction that can be sudden and sometimes debilitating.

I'm not an expert, but I think the small, safe touches being discussed in this thread amount to something like "exposure therapy" for a phobia.  There is much more that can be done for trauma; he could easily benefit from seeing a trauma specialist twice a week, but that level of support is often not available.  Making progress on this will take time and patience.

Are you able to have a discussion with him about physical touch between the two of you in a way that feels constructive, or is it too difficult for him to talk about?

RC


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