How do I help my BP admit they need help?

[MrJake]

My SO is a brilliant, high functioning BP. After five years of marriage and two kids, they are threatening separation/divorce. They have held this threat over me for the past three years, but have recently taken more proactive measures and I am concerned that they will follow through. I love my SO, I am committed to their healing, and I desire a healthy home for our kids. I know that things won't change until my SO admits that they need help, but I don't know how to help them cross that bridge. We have done couples counseling, which gave me a place to have a voice, but did not bring about self-reflection or change in my SO. Any advice? Any success stories?

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Bnonymous]

Hi Mr Jake,

Welcome to the board!

You will find plenty of people here who understand your circumstances and can offer support and advice, both on how to approach your SO and on how to take care of yourself and your own needs while coping with this difficult and painful situation.

Getting a person with BPD (pwBPD) to acknowledge that they need help can be very difficult. There's a useful article on the site that explains the challenges this poses and offers some tips of what to do (and what not to do!) - don't know if you've seen it?

https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-to-get-borderline-into-therapy

[Harri]

Hello.  I am joining Bnonymous in saying welcome to the site.  As she said, you are not alone and there are many people here who can support and guide you.

Can you tell us more about your situation?  How many kids do you have and how old are they?  What are some of the behaviors you see in your wife that are consistent with BPD?  As you post and share more we will be better able to guide you, so I hope you feel free to ump in and start reading and posting in other threads.  It is very helpful to talk with others going through the same challenges and it also helps to build a support network full of people who understand.

Again, welcome.   

[Zakade]

Hi Mr Jake,

It's hard when we love deeply but our SO does not or can not see what they are doing to the relationship.  I have to agree with Bnonymous that it is very hard to convince someone else to change, not just a person with BPD.  There is a wonderful quote from Marilyn Ferguson that sums this up perfectly:

"No one can persuade another to change. Each of us guards a gate of change that can only be opened from the inside. We cannot open the gate of another, either by argument or emotional appeal."

I would suggest checking out the link Bnonymous posted.

[MrJake]

Thanks so much for the replies. I'm going to read the article right away. I know that I can not make another person change, but I also know that I, or someone else, must talk with my SO about the harmful effects of her behavior in hopes that she will get help, and that I must do something to protect our boys. Our boys are almost 5 and almost 3. My SO is a high functioning BPD that exhibits 8 of the 9 defining traits of BPD.

[Yellowpearl]

Hey MrJake, it's tough indeed when someone we wish so much to heal won't come to terms that they need help.

What behaviors do you feel are the most troublesome/hurtful? What are her reactions when you try to address these behaviors?

DBT therapy may be a route worth considering that may be helpful for her, but of course, it's not something people suggest to bring up out of the blue to a person with BPD. You or someone may have to find an opening, such as when she is really at her worst and in the sort of place where she's actually seeking some kind of help or at rock bottom. Once that occurs, you may have to bring it up in a way that isn't drawing out her issues but kind of like "I hear therapy may help you hone some of your skills and keep you sharp in situations such as when someone is critical of you at work" or "it would help you highlight how great you are at xyz and you'd just get even better"

Finding a way that therapy would benefit be of benefit to her may be a good way to go about it at some point in the future. What do you think?

[MrJake]

Thanks, Yellowpearl. The most hurtful behaviors are intense anger, rage, verbal and sometimes physical abuse, false accusations, unilateral decision making, threats, and impulsive actions. In the moment, nothing I do really seems to help, at least with any predictability. I have tried calm replies, reasoning, listening, tenderness, removing myself from the conversation, and boundary drawing. My attempts to draw and/or hold boundaries have been met with escalation and greater threats, primarily of divorce. She seems more than ever to be likely to follow through on separation/divorce.

I have heard that DBT can be helpful. Once, about three years ago, she read some literature on BPD because our pastor had suggested that her Mom might have it, and she admitted that she could see some of the behaviors in herself. I gently asked if we might want to look into treatment for her as well. Ever since, she has accused me of calling her crazy and has told friends that I think she's crazy.

She is home full-time with our boys, so she is not interacting with others in a work environment. I like your idea, but she is VERY sensitive to any kind of suggestions of help or improvement. She generally rejects self-discipline, exercise, and work. One of her common phrases, most used when I am asking her not to rage or insult me or call me names, is to say, "You expect me to be perfect! I can't express myself unless I do it perfectly for you! You think you're perfect!" Having recently read a lot on BPD, I now know this is typical, but it's a dizzying barrage with no good reply.

[once removed]

MrJake, try for a moment to see this from her perspective.

if you were leaning toward exiting a relationship, that person telling you to get help would not incentivize you to stay in the relationship, and it might push you away.

recently taken more proactive measures and I am concerned that they will follow through

what measures has she taken?

The most hurtful behaviors are intense anger, rage, verbal and sometimes physical abuse, false accusations, unilateral decision making, threats, and impulsive actions. In the moment, nothing I do really seems to help, at least with any predictability. I have tried calm replies, reasoning, listening, tenderness, removing myself from the conversation, and boundary drawing.

can you give some specific, and recent examples? there are tools that can really help. tell us more about whats going on right now, we can help you walk them through.

[MrJake]

Thanks, Once Removed. I haven't actually ever told her to get help. I've never said, "You have BPD," or a mental disorder or called her crazy. I've never even said, "You need help." I've only tried to place boundaries on ultra-aggressive behavior. But, the reality is that she does need help, for her own sake and for our family's sake. If I can't say, "You need help," and boundaries aren't effective -- and I am committed to staying in the relationship because I love her and our boys and I made a vow "until death do us part" -- it's very difficult to see how the abuse stops, barring a miracle.

About a month ago, she gave me separation papers that she had drawn up from articles she read online. Thankfully, I did not sign them and, at the advice of my pastor, insisted on having a counselor present to even discuss. She did not start living "separately" even though she threatened that she would.

A week after she gave me the papers, I appealed to her to continue with individual counseling (which had been recommended by our marital counselor after my SO refused to continue with joint counseling) and to postpone the separation talks until after the holidays for the sake of our boys. She agreed. But, a week after that, she began raging at me over a scheduling issue,  and I tried to draw some boundaries (I told her that I would not read her abusive texts). After screaming at me in front of our 4 year old son that I was a liar and a psychopath, she stormed out of the house. The next day, she said that she would not celebrate the holidays together with our families. She then took our two boys out of state for almost 3 weeks to visit her family. During her time away, she has been alternately business-like, cordial, cold, stand-offish, and sometimes cruel in text.

She returns with the boys tomorrow night.

[once removed]

boundaries can be an elusive concept. when we are learning about them, it sounds like a solution "ill draw some boundaries and hopefully things will stop".

I've only tried to place boundaries on ultra-aggressive behavior.

if this hasnt worked, its largely because we cant place boundaries on someone elses behavior. trying often brings more of it, and frustrates us.

boundaries are a lifestyle, and they are tied to our values. if your boundary is that something is completely unacceptable, if it didnt stop after you expressed yourself, youd exit a relationship where it occurred; you wouldnt keep telling the person its unacceptable and hope that it would change.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

thats not to suggest you end your relationship, there are other ways, but its going to require new approaches, and work.

and I am committed to staying in the relationship because I love her and our boys and I made a vow "until death do us part" -- it's very difficult to see how the abuse stops, barring a miracle.

i hear your commitment, and your love for your entire family.

the abuse will not stop over night - it may not stop ever - but with work, which will involve new approaches, over time there is hope and can be real change. ive seen some of the worst cases turned around.

you mention that there is physical abuse. that is going to be hard to turn it around, but you can slowly tighten the noose on it. has it come up in counseling, have you discussed it with your pastor?

About a month ago, she gave me separation papers that she had drawn up from articles she read online. Thankfully, I did not sign them and, at the advice of my pastor, insisted on having a counselor present to even discuss. She did not start living "separately" even though she threatened that she would.

so its a bit of a bluff at this point, not that you shouldnt take the threats seriously. but for right now, shes more or less using it to change your behavior. i used breakup threats for the same reason, a lot of us do.

She returns with the boys tomorrow night.

has this happened? keep us posted... .