Tricky few days ahead

[Depression = 72% of members]

I've posted in other threads about my uBPDh and his biggest trigger -- my family.

Well, we're heading into a couple of days full of potential minefields.

We'll be out of town the week of Christmas so we came up with the idea to organize and host a family Christmas get-together. That way we're not left out (he always complains that we're the black sheep and no one really cares) and get to see everyone.

It's been a bit rocky from the start. At first, we couldn't find a date that would work for everyone. But it's a big family (about 20 people in all) so finding one date is difficult. One sister and her husband and four kids couldn't make any of the dates. So, we chose one that worked for everyone else. Fine. Our house isn't huge. And this sister is the one my husband really can't stand. He thinks she's self-centered and snooty and tries to run everything. There are some grains of truth in there but I also know she's not the horrible person he paints her as.

Anyway, when I suggested things, I also said we could do bowling or pizza. H read it as "bowling AND pizza." So, when another sister wrote back and said bowling would be challenging for her group (her 4-year-old is autistic) but pizza would be great, he was initially angry. Once he looked back at the email and saw I'd given a choice, it cooled him down. A little. He still gripes about that. "They're trying to control things. She could suck it up for a couple of hours. Next time she suggests something, I'm going to tell her that would be challenging for us."

Then, early this week, my mom threw out an idea about a place to go get pizza. H was really ticked off at that, said it was rude to do that and she should have just approached us first. I agreed that she should have mentioned it to us instead of everyone, but I also knew that, usually with family gatherings, everyone feels free to make suggestions or throw out ideas. We hadn't made it clear that we were doing the planning and had it all under control. Anyway, that was smoothed over.

Well, now it turns out the hated sister and her kids (husband has to work) will be able to come after all. She had told me that the threat of winter weather might cancel the gymnastics meet they were traveling to. I'm glad because I haven't seen them in a while. Also, my 8-year-old stepson loves being around these kids. One of them is an older boy he really looks up to. It does increase the number of people and the chaos and it's someone whose very name is a trigger for H. Last night I checked with her about their status and she told me the trip was off. H immediately started ranting about how this made him angry. "Surely she knew before this. That's just rude not to tell us earlier until we asked."  And "You know she won't have a gift for S, even though we've already gotten stuff for her kids. She only cares about herself and her kids. She doesn't care about S at all."

Last night he was moving towards a dysregulation between the thing with my sister coming and the list of things to do. I stayed calm and upbeat, telling him that we had it under control. Every time he came up with some problem, I told him the solution. He started going off on me, criticizing my housekeeping ("You never dust right. You say you dust but then I still find it. It's just not up to my standards."). I just kind of shrugged and said, "Well, you're right. I miss spots sometimes. I'm not the neatest person. Thanks for pointing that out." Eventually, he seemed to calm down some and was pretty normal when we went to bed. Today, I sense the tension coming back. It will be here at least through tomorrow night -- probably after. The chaos will drain him (I don't blame him for that) and someone will probably do or say something that will make him feel angry or offended.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to tomorrow night and dreading it at the same time. I'm just hoping we can keep the dysregulations at bay because this weekend is going to be one big trigger.

[Ozzie101]

I've posted in other threads about my uBPDh and his biggest trigger -- my family.

Well, we're heading into a couple of days full of potential minefields.

We'll be out of town the week of Christmas so we came up with the idea to organize and host a family Christmas get-together. That way we're not left out (he always complains that we're the black sheep and no one really cares) and get to see everyone.

It's been a bit rocky from the start. At first, we couldn't find a date that would work for everyone. But it's a big family (about 20 people in all) so finding one date is difficult. One sister and her husband and four kids couldn't make any of the dates. So, we chose one that worked for everyone else. Fine. Our house isn't huge. And this sister is the one my husband really can't stand. He thinks she's self-centered and snooty and tries to run everything. There are some grains of truth in there but I also know she's not the horrible person he paints her as.

Anyway, when I suggested things, I also said we could do bowling or pizza. H read it as "bowling AND pizza." So, when another sister wrote back and said bowling would be challenging for her group (her 4-year-old is autistic) but pizza would be great, he was initially angry. Once he looked back at the email and saw I'd given a choice, it cooled him down. A little. He still gripes about that. "They're trying to control things. She could suck it up for a couple of hours. Next time she suggests something, I'm going to tell her that would be challenging for us."

Then, early this week, my mom threw out an idea about a place to go get pizza. H was really ticked off at that, said it was rude to do that and she should have just approached us first. I agreed that she should have mentioned it to us instead of everyone, but I also knew that, usually with family gatherings, everyone feels free to make suggestions or throw out ideas. We hadn't made it clear that we were doing the planning and had it all under control. Anyway, that was smoothed over.

Well, now it turns out the hated sister and her kids (husband has to work) will be able to come after all. She had told me that the threat of winter weather might cancel the gymnastics meet they were traveling to. I'm glad because I haven't seen them in a while. Also, my 8-year-old stepson loves being around these kids. One of them is an older boy he really looks up to. It does increase the number of people and the chaos and it's someone whose very name is a trigger for H. Last night I checked with her about their status and she told me the trip was off. H immediately started ranting about how this made him angry. "Surely she knew before this. That's just rude not to tell us earlier until we asked."  And "You know she won't have a gift for S, even though we've already gotten stuff for her kids. She only cares about herself and her kids. She doesn't care about S at all."

Last night he was moving towards a dysregulation between the thing with my sister coming and the list of things to do. I stayed calm and upbeat, telling him that we had it under control. Every time he came up with some problem, I told him the solution. He started going off on me, criticizing my housekeeping ("You never dust right. You say you dust but then I still find it. It's just not up to my standards."). I just kind of shrugged and said, "Well, you're right. I miss spots sometimes. I'm not the neatest person. Thanks for pointing that out." Eventually, he seemed to calm down some and was pretty normal when we went to bed. Today, I sense the tension coming back. It will be here at least through tomorrow night -- probably after. The chaos will drain him (I don't blame him for that) and someone will probably do or say something that will make him feel angry or offended.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to tomorrow night and dreading it at the same time. I'm just hoping we can keep the dysregulations at bay because this weekend is going to be one big trigger.

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[isilme]

Ozzie,

Hi.  Just want to say I think you're doing great with how you respond to him. 

I am not looking forward to holiday travel to visit H's parents, and H is already stressing over gifts.  His family all has some level of emotional difficulty, from the parents to the adult kids, and none seem able to look beyond their own feelings and see they are the reason they are unhappy this time of year.  I almost want to say to the siblings and parents, "we did Thanksgiving with the parents, we get Christmas to ourselves - we decorate, we like to give gifts, and we like to cook, and never get to enjoy the holiday in our own house." H flipped out just hours ebfore we were to leave to drive down to his parents'.  He had all day to pack, but waited for me to get home to even start, picked a fight over the phone, all to try to make it so we'd not go, I believe.

Holidays seem to trigger all manner of things in a pwBPD.  I think sometimes it's the perceived expectations of how to feel that gets to them - it's very invalidating to think we're all supposed to be a holly jolly family and to not be able to feel that way.

[Ozzie101]

Yes, the holidays definitely bring this out. And your H's reactions sound a lot like my H's. He was stressed right before Thanksgiving, too, with the trip to see his mother (difficult relationship) and then his biological family (great relationship). He was practically having meltdowns over packing and whether or not my stepson had enough clothes -- even though I'm the one who handles the packing and there were plenty of clothes for S.

Good point about the perceived expectations. He's always told me he loves Christmas but every year, he gets worked up more than during other seasons. I sometimes wonder if in addition to the mass chaos (he's an introvert and I really do understand how that affects him), part of what bothers him is seeing a big family, relaxed, having a good time. Something he's never had or experienced for himself.

It's frustrating for me when he gets like this because it's like dealing with a small child. It's like he's looking for things to worry and get worked up about. Very defeatist attitude. This will never work. We don't have enough time. Very negative. I find myself playing the cheerleader (sort of), saying, Oh, sure it will work. We have plenty of time. All is well. I'm sympathetic and empathetic to his stress and worry but I just keep moving ahead -- kind of like I did when S was freaking out over having to take swim lessons. Positive. Calm. Confident. Steady. Constantly moving forward until he was in the pool.

[isilme]

It's frustrating for me when he gets like this because it's like dealing with a small child. It's like he's looking for things to worry and get worked up about. Very defeatist attitude. This will never work. We don't have enough time. Very negative. I find myself playing the cheerleader (sort of),

Same.  He says the EXACT same things.   Though I have to be careful in my cheerleading that I am not invalidating.  Whe possible and on my "A-game" I try to let him have time to vent, time to express his worries, concerns, fears... .and then I try to find a good time to stop the rumination train from gaining full speed.  I want the steam to safely vent out of the kettle, not scald me. 

It's hard, as I am often tired, on the verge of a cold, the extra darkness adds to my own depression, and since I am NC with my own family, and have had some pretty troubling Christmas-time experiences as a child of BPD parents, I have my own baggage I fight.  When I was 14 my mom OD'ed 1-2 weeks before Christmas, and I did rescue breathing for her until we could get her to the ER to pump her stomach.  We learned she did it because she had not paid rent so we were being evicted, and so had to bail with as much stuff as would fit in a van donated by the local Baptist church, to drive from Florida to Tennessee, only to have that last family member ask us to leave a week later, right before I was to start school.  This was the worst, but two BPD adults fighting each year at the holidays found me taking solace in front of the tree.  The lights made me happier somehow.  No matter what, I need that tree and those lights, somehow it makes it all well in the world?

I have a good memory.  Too good at times.  But I am finding I have repressed parts of my life and not even known it, and flashbacks of the memories or the emotions I've repressed take me down.  And I can't easily manage an adult sized toddler at these times.

I think H wants very badly the same things we all do - a happy holiday.  But he can't manage his emotions.  The ups and downs I feel are all flatlined to how he seems to feel.

He worries about getting/making gifts.  He resents what he thinks are bad gifts given to him.  He worries about the food, the drive, the parents, and when there's room in there, about me.  I know part of his anger at his parents is that he see me trying to keep 3 chronically ill, relatively immobile people fed, not just him, he sees me tired, but even if his body would let him, his emotions cause an inertia to him actually helping me.  Fear of failure, fear of not being appreciated enough, all make it make sense to him to be balky, difficult, and unhelpful. 

[Ozzie101]

That must be so difficult to deal with -- memories and current struggles, isilme.

I'm fortunate in that my Christmas memories are all happy. Yet, in some ways, that's painful too. I remember how Christmas was and how I used to feel. And I can compare that to now and how it's painful and stressful and frightening. That makes me feel even more sad and long for the time when this season made me so happy.

My H worries about everything. Every aspect of this family gathering worries him. And I know it could all go pear-shaped very easily. I'm going to be on edge myself. I also know I'll have to get all these things done (not too difficult -- they're fun errands and chores for me) while also having to deal with him and his moods. I feel better about my ability to do that after last night, when I was pretty successful in heading him off.

[once removed]

man, i always have some dread around the holidays... .they can be stressful and draining.

I sometimes wonder if in addition to the mass chaos (he's an introvert and I really do understand how that affects him), part of what bothers him is seeing a big family, relaxed, having a good time. Something he's never had or experienced for himself.

you might be right about this... .are there any ways to see if he has specific things he wants to do... .either with the family, just the two of you, or even by himself? if you dont know, it might not hurt to ask.

so what is his beef with your sister? whats the backstory there?

[Ozzie101]

We've already talked a lot about other holiday stuff. In fact, our going out of town is something he really wants to do. His part-time job is as musical director for a small church and he's done that since college so he hasn't had a non-working Christmas Eve in years. This year, we're going to be in another city, just the two of us, free to do what we want. This event tomorrow is a way to see family since we'll be gone the holiday week.

I'm hoping once it's over things will calm down, but he's been in an up-and-down cycle for months now so I'm not too optimistic.

Here's the story with my sister:
Sister and I are close in age. As teens, she was anorexic. It was awful. She lashed out, yelled, pushed buttons. As the oldest, it often fell to me to sort of protect the younger sisters from everything while my parents tried to deal with her. I (and my parents) also took the brunt of her fury. H knows all about this. (Truth is, though, he actually acts a lot like she used to.)

Anyway, as we've grown up, a lot of those old wounds have been healed and we get along fine for the most part. If we have to be together more than a few hours, we can fall back into some old patterns, but for the casual family gathering, no problem.

At first, H liked this sister the best of all of them. She's friendly and talkative and people usually do like her a lot.

Then there was the family beach trip in 2017.

He went into it with a negative attitude. He didn't want to be in a house with all those people for a week. I got that completely and we would go do our own thing as much as we wanted/needed to. He was resentful that our suggestions on which house to rent weren't picked up. He felt like the others made all the decisions and we were expected to follow along. Maybe that's true. I was newly married and new to having a real vote in these things so I didn't speak up enough. I saw that as a failing on my part more than theirs.

The problems really came with the kids. My stepson (then 6) was with us. For the most part, he got on well with the other kids. But, he has a tendency to get out of control and get too wild and obnoxious -- in some ways, typical boy behavior. Well, one night, the girls were watching a movie and he was bothering them. My nephew (then 12) got his mother (sister in question), who was the only adult nearby. Afterwards, H found S in his room upset, saying one of the girls had hurt his arm and made him leave the room and then my sister had gotten mad at him. This was towards the end of a stressful week. H nearly went through the roof.

I said I'd handle it. I went to my sister and asked what had happened. She said the situation with the kids was escalating so she -- kindly but firmly -- told him he needed to go find his dad. She wanted the kids to get some space.

Thing is, as H wanted, I'd asked her to let us know if there was a problem with S since we knew he could get out of control. We wanted her to tell us so we could step in and pull him back.

She felt like, in the moment and as the only adult anywhere near, she needed to just act and neutralize the situation.

I believed my sister. It sounded reasonable and I know kids. They don't always present the facts exactly as they happened. Anyway, having grown up with sisters and going on vacations with cousins, I know these little spats between kids happen. Not a big deal. And, for the kids, it wasn't. 10 minutes later, S was back playing with the girls having a dance party. H was still upset.

I understood why he was upset. He was extra-sensitive, being a first-timer and his child being a newcomer and "step." So, I understood both sides and ended up caught in the middle. Trying to appease H, I went back to sister, who got angry and defensive and we ended up having an argument that was not pleasant. Made up the next day. (That's part of why it bothers me when H accuses me of never taking his side or standing up for him.)

And S was going to be something of an outsider and oddball anyway. The only other boy was twice his age. My nephew is nice to him, but needs some space sometimes. The kids around his age were all girls. While he plays well with girls, he's automatically different. Not like he can be a part of girly sleepovers.

No problems with the kids since, though.

Now H sees sister as a snooty country club wife/mother who's completely obsessed with her kids, wrapped up in her own life. He thinks she tries to run everything and my parents, afraid of upsetting her or guilty for all that happened years ago, give in to her. I don't think that's true. I do think she's more outspoken and forceful than I am -- and as a mother of four, she's responsible for a bigger chunk of the family than anybody. He doesn't see these distinctions, though.

He frames it that he can't forgive her for how she treated me as a teen. Thing is, he treats me just as badly if not worse than she did. And while she may have been awful, she also has some very good qualities and I can mention several times when she has dropped everything and gone out of her way to support me.

It's complicated. But then, as he says, he "doesn't do 'complicated'" and as an only child, the complexity of the sibling relationship escapes him.

[once removed]

H knows all about this. (Truth is, though, he actually acts a lot like she used to.)

we often get irritated most with others about things that we see in ourselves, or see in our older selves.

my ex and my best friends ex saw a lot of themselves in each other... .it was a recurring problem.

do you think thats going on? do you think he sees it?

At first, H liked this sister the best of all of them. She's friendly and talkative and people usually do like her a lot.

that makes sense. people with BPD traits have a greater than average tendency to build others up, and then, at any "disappointment", tear them down.

maybe im stating the obvious here, but it sounds like he has a big issue with either feeling left out, not consulted, or both. and he kinda mindreads/projects their thought processes.

[Ozzie101]

Being left out of the loop is a HUGE trigger for him. And misreading my family is almost like an Olympic sport for him at this point.

And, yes, him being like this sister and that contributing to his irritation has definitely occurred to me. As far as I know, no, he doesn't see it himself.

[once removed]

As far as I know, no, he doesn't see it himself.

what about you, in terms of how you interacted with her back then, and how you interact with him today?

[Ozzie101]

Back then, from what I can remember, I avoided her and when I couldn't, just kind of took it and then vented to friends later. Not as easy to avoid now. In those days, I blamed her and felt angry with her. Now I'm more likely to blame myself. I don't necessarily fight back but I defend myself -- or used to, until I realized it made things worse and just invalidated.

[isilme]

Here's a question - does he do better with a scheduled group activity with clear goals, like the idea of bowling, or does he prefer/do better where you're all just sitting around a house, in groups, loosely chit chatting and visiting as people come and go freely as they will?

If it's the former, would a few things most people can do be a good way to keep him engaged and busy?  Or even possible?  Maybe plan some small games at home, some things to keep kids occupied while adults play games like Taboo, or ones that don't require a board. 

Holidays, back when we could do things like this (before the parents gave up and decided they were dead even though they are still alive), were more enjoyable with H's family, people had fun, any awkward conversation was forestalled by a board game or card game,

[Ozzie101]

I think he would do better that way. In a way, having it at our house may be better. He can stay busy and will be in his own environment. If he needs to escape, he can need to go get something at the store.