Mind BLown

[Jerome Finn]

All i can say is WOW!  My wife has told me about her emotional abuse when she was a child.  She saw a therapist for many years regarding this abuse and was told she has PTSD.  I figured all the crazy stuff she does was due to PTSD.  Boy was I wrong!  I finally went to a therapist on how to deal with all the crazy things she does and the therapist dropped a bombshell on me after only the 2nd visit.  She thinks my wife has BPD and suggested I read walking on eggshells.  HOLY  #&#!  I have only read half of it and IT... .IS... .ALL... .THERE!.  ALL OF IT.  Her picture might as well be on the front cover with under the title <Wife's Name> user manual.

  She always wants me home; always is agrivated if I want to see a friend (of which I have almost none) - she gives me grief if I am just a bit late home from work and doesn't even want me to do things like mow the lawn and asks me to sleep on the couch and give her company no matter where she is in the house.  She is capable of raging if you say the wrong thing and has super fast extreme mood swings sometime, especially if our kids show any preference to me over her.  She does this scratching until her hands are raw thing, sometimes says she feels empty.  She has very low self esteem and always wants me to validate anything she does.  She spends at restaurants like a drunken dwarf, gets depressed, very moody.  She makes me feel like I'm superman half the time and a jerk the other half.  Always asking if 'something is wrong' when I'm not doing anything out of the ordinary - maybe a wrong look on my face.  She often says she doesn't even know who she is and at times says she feels disconnected with reality.  She can't hold down a job and gets so stressed that we've had to cancel trips to see my family (which I almost never see - been 8 years since I have had Christmas with them), cancel theater tickets because she might have to go to the bathroom and can't handle the anxiety of that.

We've been together for 20 years and only now do I finally have any sort of an explanation for this insane life I've been living.  The thought that there are others out there going through the same thing makes me laugh and cry at the same time.  I finally don't feel so alone with this craziness.  And to think you have all been here all the time - I just had to find you.  I really thought it was just me.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Jerome Finn]

Um... .I think I should have posted this in the "Romantic Relationship | Bettering a Relationship or Reversing a Breakup" section - perhaps a moderator could move it for me?

[Bnonymous]

Hi

Welcome to the boards! 

I'm glad you found us. There are lots of members here that will be able to relate to what you're experiencing with your wife. You're certainly not alone.

Always asking if 'something is wrong' when I'm not doing anything out of the ordinary - maybe a wrong look on my face. 

Research has shown that people with BPD have difficulty with interpreting neutral expressions. Where most people would see a neutral face as neutral, pwBPD tend to see it as hostile, angry, or upset. If your wife has BPD this might explain why she does this.

Is your wife in therapy currently?

[Ozzie101]

Hi Jerome Finn! Welcome!

I'm relatively new here myself -- just joined a little over a month ago. I, too, read Stop Walking on Eggshells and had an epiphany. My marriage is only 2 years old so I haven't lived with it nearly as long as you have, but when the signs first started, I was completely bewildered -- convinced there was something wrong with me and I was just a horrible wife. Or that things were all in my head. Living with a pwBPD can make you feel like you don't know which was is up. This board has really helped me deal with my husband's dysregulations and members have given me a lot of encouragement and tools I can use and I'm sure they/we can help you, too.

She makes me feel like I'm superman half the time and a jerk the other half.  Always asking if 'something is wrong' when I'm not doing anything out of the ordinary - maybe a wrong look on my face.

My husband isn't the clingy type like your wife, but this part really struck a chord with me. My uBPDh will tell me how great I am for something I've done -- and then when he's in a mood, I can't do anything right. All I do, seemingly, is make him miserable. I've gotten an "I really hate you" a couple of times.

The "look" is also a big thing. He'll accuse me of giving him this real judgmental look. Maybe I am giving some sort of look but if I am, it's not at all connected to what I'm thinking/feeling. It usually has to do with food (a trigger point for him) or how he's handling his 8-year-old son (another trigger). Both are things that he's had problems with his mother about and I can't help but wonder when he does that if he's projecting her onto me. Your comment and Bnonymous's reply make me wonder if maybe I DON'T have a judgmental look on my face at all but he's reading into a neutral expression. Interesting.

[Zakade]

Welcome Jerome Finn!

You HAVE come to the right place.  This is  a great group that will help you as much as they can but it's up to you to do the work.  Since you are in the early stages of discovery about BPD, you still have a lot to sort out.  Post any questions or concerns and someone will be happy to lend a hand.

Always asking if 'something is wrong' when I'm not doing anything out of the ordinary - maybe a wrong look on my face.

We have to understand that for a good portion of  people with BPD, there was a high level of trauma in their childhood.  They are very acutely aware of any minor change in us.  It's like a defense mechanism from being a child and always having to be on guard when the next series of trauma to come.  You could be worried about a bill or something at work and not feel like you are showing your hand but you are to them.  The problem for the BPD is that they think that it must be about them.

[Jerome Finn]

Is your wife in therapy currently?

She was in therapy for 10 years or so but about 3 years ago she decided that at some point she needed to spread her wings and try to live her life without so much counselling.  Maybe once or twice a year she will call her counsellor but that is about it.  She still thinks she has PTSD (maybe she does?) but BPD isn't even on her radar as far as I know.  I have no idea whether I should tell her my suspicions (massive suspicions) as things are a bit 'better' lately and I don't want to rock the boat.  We used to live near her emotionally abusive parents and moved away about three years ago.  Before we moved things were really really bad - I would stay up until 2AM to 'help her get to sleep' and then up at 7AM to get the kids to school EVERY DAY.  Now I am usually in bed by midnight and she usually doens't wake me up (but sometimes will if she's having a 'difficult' night.).  She woke me up at 1:30 AM last night in fact because she couldn't sleep.  Sometimes life seems normal but then eventually I am knocked off my feet.  She's better than she used to be I think but still has her limit and my kids are very good at pushing her past her limits with just the normal crazy way kids act.

He'll accuse me of giving him this real judgmental look.

For me it's more like she's worried that I am going to leave or do something behind her back with someone else.  I agree that the info from Bnonymous is very interesting.  I feel sometimes like I need to try and keep my face neutral when she's asking but maybe that just makes it worse.

[ForeverDad]

She still thinks she has PTSD (maybe she does?) but BPD isn't even on her radar as far as I know.  I have no idea whether I should tell her my suspicions (massive suspicions) as things are a bit 'better' lately and I don't want to rock the boat.

The general advice is not to tell.  Maybe at some point of progress she could be informed but you shouldn't be the one to do it.  Overreaction would be likely, such as extreme Denial, Blaming and Blame Shifting.  Hopefully her therapist was not inept or clueless for all those years and knew to address the appropriate counseling behind the banner of PTSD.

I feel sometimes like I need to try and keep my face neutral when she's asking but maybe that just makes it worse.

To a certain extent there is little you can do prevent a misinterpretation or trigger.  Otherwise you'd be walking on eggshells again.  Informed and insightful, yes; walking on eggshells, no.

The key is how to reduce the risks and be educated on ways more likely to be successful.

Boundaries... .A person with BPD generally resists and fights boundaries.  Often they will exempt themselves from boundaries they demand of us.  So when we speak of boundaries here (read Boundaries by Henry Cloud) we mean boundaries for us.  How so?  "If you do or don't do ___ then I will do or not do ___."  Of course, not a threat, just a statement.  For example, "If you rant and rage then I will leave with the kids to the park or restaurant until you calm down."  So our response will demonstrate that we will be the Immovable Object to their Irresistible Force.  Sure, the immediate reaction (overreaction) is to oppose expecting us to retreat to the old patterns but in time as we hold to the firm boundaries they ought to come to (very grudgingly) accept our new stance.

Learn why HEAR (and there are other acronyms I can't recall at the moment) is better than JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, explain).

[ForeverDad]

Correction, I used wrong acronyms, in place of HEAR, instead research SET and DEARMAN.  Here is a link to an index page which includes links to all these things and more:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=36.0

[Jerome Finn]

The general advice is not to tell.

Ok - I can see why not to tell her, but what about other people in her life?  I DEFINITELY shouldn't tell her abusive family, but what about my family that is more supportive and already believes she has PTSD?  Part of me thinks maybe I should tell them for support for myself, but on the other hand they don't really know all the awful things that she can send my way and I don't really want them to hate her.

What about her counsellor?  Maybe she's treating BPD under the guise of PTSD or maybe not?  It seems crazy not to let her know so she can start working on the real problem (assuming I'm right) in the odd times my wife contacts her, but I'm not sure if it's ethical for me to be contacting her counsellor without her consent - plus her counsellor might out me for it.

[believer55]

Welcome to the rollercoaster ride   Learning about BPD was an eye opener for me and that feeling you get when you check of the boxes is one of relief and worry. Don't be afraid to let us know how you are feeling, coping and what's going on at home. We will fully understand

B.

[Zakade]

It is perfectly fine to contact her counselor.  They won't tell you any information about what they talk about but you can tell them your theories and concern.  And on top of that, if you ask them not to say that you talked to them, they should not say a word to your wife about it.  That doesn't mean the counselor will take action but it may help.  I would prepare a tactful presentation before calling.  Blurting out, "My wife has BPD.", will probably not go over well.  I think you understand what I mean.

As far as the family is concerned, if you think that they may hate her, probably not a good idea.  Remember that BPD is a "label" to describe a bunch of symptoms.  You can relay the different parts of it without giving it a name.  If you were sneezing and had a sore throat, wouldn't you assume you have a "cold" (a.k.a. the label)?

Zakade

[Jerome Finn]

Thanks.     Well to be honest, I am still reeling.  As you say there is definitely a feeling of relief that there is support out there and others going through the same thing.  For so long I soldiered on by myself.  Only about 3 years ago (out of ~20) I finally reached out to a couple of trusted friends about how insane my life was.   On the other hand it feels a lot more serious to me now that I believe it is BPD.  Acknowledging that I really know nothing about PTSD or BPD, when I thought it was PTSD it seemed more like something she would eventually heal from and now it feels a lot more like a life sentence (sounds bad, but being honest with my feelings).  I do find I am  more understanding of her now.  My anger has actually subsided somewhat (there was some infidelity on her part in the past) since finding out about BPD I guess because it feels less like she's doing things to drive me crazy and more like she's an unfortunate person who has these uncontrollable emotions - kind of like the lightning example in 'stop walking on eggshells'.  You aren't happy when the lightning strikes but you can't really blame lightning.  I'm definitely seeing her in a new light and I'm pretty sure she wouldn't like it if she knew.

[Bnonymous]

Hi Jerome Finn,

It's hard managing by yourself - a strong support network can really help anchor us and keep us grounded. I'm glad you were able to reach out to friends.

A lot of people here will be able to relate to your feelings of both relief and trepidation at discovering it's probably BPD. It's understandable that it now feels more serious and makes you worry for the future. One way to look at it though is that you have been living with your wife's BPD for 20 years before you had a name for it - now you have answers and support, and for that reason, it's likely that the years ahead will be easier than the ones behind you.

How are things going now?

[Jerome Finn]

Wow.  I can't believe it has been an entire year since I posted.  I was so excited that after 20 years I had finally found my 'people'  and a support network and then I didn't come back for a year.  It makes no sense.  There must be something there psychological that was stopping me as I would think about it from time to time but never ended up posting.  Alas I am now back and this time I intend on posting way more regularly.

The reason I am back is that my head is spinning a bit right now - not too much but enough that I wanted to reach out for support.

I mentioned in one of the posts above that there was some infidelity on my wife's part in the past.  When she originally told me about it she said it didn't feel safe to tell me who the guy was that she cheated with but did say that she would tell me one day.  Now I'm not some tough guy - I'm a wimpy computer nerd so I'm pretty sure she didn't think I was going to hunt the guy down or anything.  After a few days I prompted her again to tell me saying that it would help us put it behind us.  She shut that down very quickly.  It was almost a primal response of fear saying it 'didn't feel safe' and for me to stop asking. I clearly needed to drop it then and there or she would have a nervous break down or something (or at least I thought so at the time)

I was going crazy and had to figure out who it was.  I ended up figuring it out by means I won't divulge (99% certain) and since then I just stewed about the fact that she refuses to tell me.

Ok now fast forward four years to a few days ago.  I was caught lying to her for a noble reason - to protect her from stressful information that worked out in the end anyways.  I didn't tell her because she was melting down about something else and I couldn't bring myself to tell her this other stressful info until I had it checked out to see if it indeed was a problem.  When it turned out to be nothing I figured why tell her (yes probably was afraid of getting in 'trouble' for  not telling her in the first place) but alas she found out and we had this huge talk about how it is important in a marriage to be open and honest and how can she trust me if I keep things from her.  So I sent an e-mail later that day telling her all the things I was 'protecting' her from and was as open as I could in an effort to move forward and avoid having anything else bite me in the arse later.  I fumed all night about the hypocrisy so I sent her an e-mail the next day telling her that to be fully honest with her (like she wanted) I had to tell her that it bugged me that she never told me who she cheated on me with and that I wasn't pressuring her to now because I wasn't sure where she was on the 'not feeling safe to tell me' but simply wanted to be honest with my feelings like we agreed and that I hoped one day that that secret wouldn't be between us.  I thought that maybe since so much time had gone by and that she seemed to no longer be in contact with him that maybe she was ready to tell me.  She replied that she didn't see how it would help to say the 'who' now and she definitely didn't feel safe now that I brought it up again and that that was a painful time in her life and that she doesn't want it to be part of her life.  She called me on the phone and I told her that she said she would tell me some day which she didn't remember saying.  Now she says she will NEVER tell me and 'will I ever get past this?' like it's my fault for not getting past it when she refuses to give me the info I need to get past it.  Ok - not really true since I know who it was anyways but it's hit me hard to hear that she never intends to tell me.  There is no way in h*ll that would fly if it was the other way around.

I ended up telling her that hearing her say she would never tell me was the closure I needed to hear to get past it.  I said that partly to smooth things over quickly and partly because there is sort of a closure there but not the kind she thinks.  It's basically confirmation that when it comes down to it she wouldn't take a bullet for me.  Her needs trump mine and she really has no need to make sure I’m truly ok - she just wants it to go away and to h*ll with what I really need.

A huge part of me wants to leave now but I don't think I'd get full custody of the kids so I worry what would happen for the time they were with their mother without me (she loves them and is nice to them but when things get rocky I am the one that smooths things over or takes them out to the park until mommy gets calm again).  I also can't bring myself to destroy their world.  We don't fight in front of them and amazingly we actually are very loving and cuddly outwardly so they are not growing up in a horrible environment (but it's not lost on me that her BPD traits are certainly having an effect anyways) so it would definitely be a shock to them.  Plus I worry she would some how be able to move back to her home town where her mentally abusive parents live which is  why we moved away in the first place.

So now I'm thinking of leaving her in 10 years when my kids are grown up which makes me sound horrible for me to 'fake' it that long and waste both our time but I feel like I did my part in this last exchange by being as open with everything as I could in and promising to always tell her instead of 'protect' her and she has chosen to not meet me half way.  As far as I can see she is the one putting me in this position so it is her cross to bear even if she thinks everything is fine.

She of course is happy again because she thinks this episode is over and has full control again and that I'll never bring it up again.  She's wrong about having full control but of course I can't let her know that.

And the soap opera that is my life continues…
Jerome

[Nifty Unicorn]

I am thinking the same things about my kids, relationship, husband longevity, or he will just be the vegetable and I will find the strength and the skills to have the life that I want. I still think there is a possibility for that. So I keep asking myself...what do I need to do to stay? And what can I do in my life that makes it more livable today?

[ForeverDad]

A huge part of me wants to leave now but I don't think I'd get full custody of the kids so I worry what would happen for the time they were with their mother without me (she loves them and is nice to them but when things get rocky I am the one that smooths things over or takes them out to the park until mommy gets calm again).  I also can't bring myself to destroy their world.  We don't fight in front of them and amazingly we actually are very loving and cuddly outwardly so they are not growing up in a horrible environment (but it's not lost on me that her BPD traits are certainly having an effect anyways) so it would definitely be a shock to them.

So now I'm thinking of leaving her in 10 years when my kids are grown up which makes me sound horrible for me to 'fake' it that long...

We are on the outside, looking in.  While we can't know every detail of your situation, what we do have is collective experience and objective observations.

Maybe it is that the children are shielded from much of the poor behaviors.  There's a saying, though, the walls have ears.  The children surely know there are issues, to what extent is the question.  Do the children view you as the appeaser, the one acquiescing to get some peace?  Wouldn't that lead toward the kids concluding that's how normal family life is?  When they're grown, what impact will that history have on the persons they choose for their relationships?  Will they be inclined to be appeasers too, like you, or perhaps be more like their mother?

Just some questions to ponder.

[Jerome Finn]

Yup.  I have considered that.  I am afraid to stay and afraid to leave.