BPD-sis "only" thinks she's physical ill.

[Snoopy737]

Hi Everyone

Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays (if they are happy)

I've told my too long story about my BPD-trait sister, who would never seek help at therapists or doctors, so I won't echo it.

Christmas Eve in Europe, last night, my dads died a couple a years ago, and sis moved 1000 kilometers away and now she is sick from work with stress. She wouldn't seek pro help, but waited for months to get doctor appointments follow ups, always saing "I WON'T be that type of people, who always show up at the doctors and hospitals." Again and always black and white. Even when she needs help so bad, she drags the doctors appointments in front of her for months and months, and yeah, that's her choice, if it wasn't bc she texted me and my 80 year old mother about how sick she is, and that she can't do anything, can't feel her legs at night, have to rest on the toilet floors at the Mart, to get rest just to walk home. After half a year with me "understanding", I blew a fuse. Why should me and Mom listen to that daily, it was hard to be reminded daily, that someone you really care for and love, is doing so bad, but won't get help. So I wrote an e-mail urging her to do something about it, to take responsibility and to go to the emergency at night, if she couldn't feel her legs. And if she came home here why I live, I promised to support her at every hospital-appointement. Then she blew a fuse. She said, I tried to control her and she got no contact and telling me, that she could complete a bucketlist, several pages long, about how I had messed MY LIFE UP.

I get along relly good with friends and new people I meet, so this reaction is always weird to me. Last time she got nc, she waited 5 years, now this time it's aleady been 2½ years.

I just had to ask Mom, how sister was doing, last night, Christmas Eve, and my Mom told me, that sis, still got dizzy after being up from bed, just after a few hours. And that the progress at her work was so small. She's sick at work, but can come for a few hours. It's been like that for 2 years now.

I don't go into a discussion with my Mom anymore. It leads nowhere. No matter what I say, my Mom believes my sisters words, and that's really peculiar to me, too. But I guess the BPD-traits was running on my Mom's side of family, even though she can't see that at all.

I just wonder, has any of you siblings, who claim they are physical sick, and only physcial, when it's too obvious to you, that they run themselves down, because of their BPD-traits and behaviours?

I've had my share of anxiety and depression, the last only when I chose to please sister, which didn't do anything positive, though. And I've ask for help the last 20 years. Got maybe hundreds of hours with therapist, great ones, good courses about anxiety, and and group therapy. It has been really, really hard work, but it has been worthwhile.

Now, I'm so used to therapist and thinking cognitive, I really don't understand sister's thought patterns anymore. It's just too crazy. But right after the books, Walking on Eggshelves, Stop taking care of borderline ... .

I just wonder how long sister believes(?) she's only physical ill, and still refuses to get into therapy and want to stress herself outm just getting lower and lower. I can't see how she can get up from this, always ignoring her own unhealty patterns.

Have you seen this too? And what happens, when her body can't cope with the stress anymore. Will she then stay in bed all day, just saying that's something physical i wrong with her?

Doctors can't find anything on CAT scans etc.

I can only see decades with therapy as the only way foward to get better. But she would never do that, be she thinks she is strong, and I'm totally weak bc, I've got help to get on for so many years.

It worries me, but she don't want any contact, and I can't stand the contact she offers, just complaining. For the first time in a decade, I've almost written her out of my future, and my days now feels so much brighter. New friends, friends without problems, actually happy friends. Swim team friends, coaching sweet synchro swimmer, searching for a new job. After I finally stopped thinking I should care for my sis, my own life turned to the better.

But oc, she is my sister. I worries me what her rock bottom is. Bc I think she's in a tailspin. Oc I'm also worried that she one day will take her life, though she has never talked about thoughts like that, ever.

All best Snoopy

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Snoopy737,

My uBPDm definitely had the tendency to be always needing care for ailments she thought she had. Some were legitimate, others, well, not so sure. One thing I did notice though is that she liked the attention that she received from the medical care givers because she would speak about how much she felt cared for, how they would be very concerned about her well being. I'm sure that met a need she had.

Someone with BPD struggles with being able to self-soothe in healthy ways, so they often seek unhealthy ways of doing that.

I don't know if there truly is something wrong with your sis or not, but let's look at what an underlying feeling might be in this scenario. Do you think that fear may be driving her? Or is it a need for attention? Or could it be a belief that no one is concerned about her? What do you think might be driving this? Then we can work on healthy ways to respond to her and validate her feelings which is usually what someone with BPD needs the most.

I definitely understand the whole "this is driving me crazy" scenario! 

Wools

[Snoopy737]

Thx for the answer, Wools.

Wools said "What do you think might be driving this? Then we can work on healthy ways to respond to her and validate her feelings which is usually what someone with BPD needs the most."

Actually, I don't agree, bc I have worked 'on her' with up to two therapists and a doctor and a nurse, behind the scenes, getting support from them.

And sister just gets mad, Silent treatment and then demands No Contact. I really don't believe in the 'babysitter for the BPD-person' anymore. We have listened, we have praised her few good traits etc. etc. and when she feels bad, she always projects it on other persons.

And now after decades, I can see, that when she e.g. divorces her husband #2 and blames him everything, she then blaimes me and my parents again, even though my parents pick her up, every time she gets low. And when she then try to illminate us and moves 1000 km away, starting a new life, without 'Bullies like us' it takes ½ a year, and then it's someone at work totally destroying her life, she says, and again she focuses 100% on revenge on that colleague, and if the boss don't support her, she blaimes the boss 100%, too. "And if only they were gone, she would LOVE that job ... ." she says and yada, yada, yada.

I don't believe in helping her anymore, that's why I ask myself what will happen, if she hits rock bottom low, because she has pushed everyone away who offered to help her. And moved from her friends.

Yeah, I could guess, why she's behaving like that, but again I can't do anything about it. Helplines and therapists helping me with her, couldn't do anything for the 10 years we have worked on this, and my life became sh*t. So why would I analyse her anymore, like a therapist? Every person in the health care system now says I can do nothing until, she wants to do something herself. And she didn't want that for the last 10 years.

Snoppy

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi again Snoopy737,

Thank you for responding.

Yeah, I could guess, why she's behaving like that, but again I can't do anything about it.  

We cannot change someone else, no matter whether they have BPD or not, and I agree with you there. For myself, I've found it frustrating to watch someone I care about not having the desire to change, to improve, to get better. It is very painful to watch, and I often feel so helpless. When I read what you have written, I wonder if you might also feel hurt, angry and betrayed by your sister's unkindness?

Wools

[Turkish]

We cannot change someone else, no matter whether they have BPD or not, and I agree with you there

My mom was in therapy her whole life.  When I left the nest and she had a breakdown,  she told me later that she wnt through seven therapists before she found one she trusted. She was also on meds to stabilize her moods.  This all helped her survive,  but never thrive. 

My ex is much higher functioning,  but was terrified about taking meds at the suggestion of her therapist. 

[quietgirl]

my BPD sister does stuff like this too.  Always saying she has some sort of aliment.
Its intolerable to listen too and creates the "boy who cried wolf" syndrome,

I like the advice I learned in the "Walking on Eggshells" book, just ignore it.
It sounds horrible but encourage your mom to do the same.

Like a dog, ignore the behavior that is not desirable and only respond to the behavior that is appropriate.
She wants attention, its why she does it.  If she gets the attention she will continue.  If she doesn't she will try something else. Or at least go elsewhere for the attention.

[Snoopy737]

Thank you so much, Turkish

It's actually a relief hearing how hard it is to others, too. Therapy the whole life, yeah, that's something to take in. And it's exactly those thoughts I have about my sister. I know it took me 20 years in therapy on/off, to cope with anxiety, and I really worked hard and had to go through a lot. So, I think I'm just realistic, when I see my sister age 51 and refused to take a single therapy appointment in her life. I mean, even if she was motivated, it would take at least 10 years, just to get her a little better, even with the best therapy and the best DBT-group.

But when she's not even there, I'm just kind of wondering what life she will get now. I have finally let go of wanting to change her, and she refuses to communicate, so it's just as well the same to me.

Maybe, it's a good thing my sister thinks it's me who is wrong (like there were a list with right or wrong doings in life), and I guess it's better than her feeling  awkward and wrong and alone. But I really don't know. It's just that kind of thoughts I struggle with. I guess it's still a 'trying to understand', but her life and actions are so shifting all the time, so I guess there isn't anything to understand, really, but chaos.

Thanks again, all best Snoopy

[Snoopy737]

Hi quitegirl!

Thanks so much!

Your words helped so much. It was just spot on! Exactly 'the boy who cried wolf' is the feeling I have had about her, after she wrote us very important letters on e-mail, telling us she was seriously ill. I've just had two parents with cancer at the same time, so saying you are seriously ill, feels like fatally ill, to me. So Mom and I cared for her for ½ a year, answered all her worrying texts, comforting her. And suddenly I found out, that she really didn't want help, or maybe she didn't dare to go to the doctors or the hospital. That's when I blew a fuse, bc I felt so helpless. I mean, yes, I can listen and comfort, but when you've had a dad with cancer, and an aunt with cancer both waiting too long, until the cancer had spread, and they only had a couple of weeks left to live in, it's not funny to me, that she holds appointments with the doctors, kind of downplaying when the doctors ask, and giving it full throttle when she tells me and my Mom about her pain and health.  And she couldn't cope that I asked her to take responsibility and expedite those consultations and CAT scans at the hospital. So she demanded no contact.

I think she is pathetic, bc even the young swimmers  age 12-14 I work with, take a lot more responsibility about their health and bodies than sister does. And they behave more mature, than my sister does. And I really can't cope with her acting like a teen or younger, with the responsibility and power of an adult. Some days I compare it with a sis on meth, bc people on meth also treat their body and health poorly, my sis just do it with 'not going to the doctor or the hospital', but complaining to us.

And maybe you're right. It can be 'the boy who cried wolf'. Now after 1½ years, and the doctors found nothing so far, I'm finally sure, that she wans't fatally ill. So at that point it WAS 'the boy who cried wolf'. Still, it's really weird to me, that she can't see she should seek help for her moods and really difficult anger tantrums. How can someone be so mad at so many people including two men she's divorced from now, still thinking everybody else is bullying her and treating her bad. It never crossed her mind, that it could be something in her own behavioural patterns. That's really weird to me.

But yeah, I couldn't ignore it. Retrospective, I know you're right. I should have ignored it. She got all the attention, she wanted, and could still hold the healthcare appointments back. That's like saying 'Well done, you' to a kid not stopping a nose bleed.   Then I would have kept the contact with sis, but with three family members with cancer, where two died, I really thought she was seriously ill, when she wrote it.

She wasn't, but it not just attention she wants. Maybe she like that, too. I think she does. But it's also all the problems in her life she has ousted. No wonder her brain can't cope anymore and it's stressed out. I believe that. And I understand her brain ;)  And now I just wonder, what will happen, when she rests for her 'stress' but not actually seeks help at a therapist? I mean, you can't rest problems away, not working with them. That's so absurd to me, that she thinks that. And my Mom maybe thinks that, too. Now my 80 old mom want's to travel the 1000 kilometers to visit her daugther, and that's kind of sweet. I just don't see, where my sister will be, when she hasn't her mother anymore and has pushed everybody else away. That must be hell.

Thanks quitegirl, your answer meant a lot to me. All best Snoopy

[Panda39]

I have seen alot of this kind of thing with my SO's uBPDxw too.  Is it real health issues, is it attention seeking, is it a coping mechanism? Is it to create drama?  It's probably all of the above.   

In her case the health issues are often illnesses that are subjective, in nature often revolving around "pain" is this pain physical? Is it emotional?  Is it real?  I often feel in her case it's looking for what is wrong with her in the "physical" sense so she doesn't have to face that what is wrong with her is "mental/emotional".

We ignore the "kid who cried wolf" when we start hearing about something we just have a wait and see attitude.  If it is something real we begin to see professionals involved, or a hospitalization or surgery.  Most of the time we hear about something and then it gets dropped or forgotten or she moves on to the next illness.

Panda39

[quietgirl]

 I often feel in her case it's looking for what is wrong with her in the "physical" sense so she doesn't have to face that what is wrong with her is "mental/emotional"

This is a profound statement, and I very much agree.  The denial that they are mentally sick is powerful.  I dont know about your sister but mine is NEVER wrong.  never.  Even when I know she is flat out lying, and call her out on it. 
I think its common.  One of her therapists told me to continue calling her out on her BS statements, but really addressing it head on like that rarely helps me.  Just creates more issues. 

[Snoopy737]

Panda & quitegirl

Panda wrote: " I often feel in her case it's looking for what is wrong with her in the "physical" sense so she doesn't have to face that what is wrong with her is "mental/emotional"."

And quitegirl echoed it.

And: 'me too', EXACTLY what I'm feeling about her "coping". It's so precise. And that's why I'm often like 'duh!', when my mother tells me about sisters new physical problems. Sister won't speak to me, so I hear it through my mom. ;)

It's really hard to understand, that I know my sister a 1000 times better, than she knows herself. And I also can prove it, bc when my dad was terminally ill with cancer and I finally told sister to come by, she had to travel the 1000 kilometers down to the hospital (She was the one who moved away), and she was totally confused when she arrived. She told us, that she had had the worst trip ever, bc she had had some kind of stomach flu, and had to use the toilet in the train every ½ hour, and it was a 7 hour trip. For the next 2 weeks she was convinced that she had the stomach flu, and then a month after my dad died, she finally said "Oh, I think the problem with my stomach was bc of stress." And not to be rude, but I just think 'No sh*t, Sherlock'. I mean your dad lies at the hospital terminally ill with cancer, and you have to sit in the train for 7 hours thinking about it. How could anyone not be stressed out, and just relax and enjoy the ride. It's so absurd. But again, she doesn't get it.

And one other time, when she finally broke down with stress at work, she said she was absolutely sure that it was physical, that she had a very serious illness  (and mom and I got scared to death, we had just lost my aunt and my dad), and then later on sister said, I'm really positive it's physical, bc I you can be this dizzy and have the tingling in the legs and be so tired and exhausted and it's a mental thing, then my understanding has really gone up to another level about mental problems."

At that time, and still now 1½ years later, she still believes it's only physical (and maybe a bad boss),  but when she said it, I knew 100% that it was mental. All the fails in her life, two broken marriages, and she still insisted on NOT going to a therapist. Not before the divorce, not under, not after. And with every other problem she have had with people, she never wanted to go see a therapist afterwards.

quitegirl:  bc - like you wrote - my sister is NEVER WRONG. NEVER! And yeah, even when I catches her in flat out lying, too.  She's just like 'Yeah, yeah, maybe I'm not remembering that right date, but I know I'M RIGHT'. (She told my mother, that last time she saw me, and I didn't wanted to accept the way she treated me - suddenly she wouldn't accept birthday gifts from me, and I still don't know why - but after that day, she told my mom, that I had been SO CRUEL to her, that she was so depressed months after, that she couldn't even look for and apply for a new job. Actually, It was right, that she did not apply for other jobs right after that birthday. And why? Bc she forgot that the next day, she was to a job interview and actually got the job. That's when she moved 1000 km away. But in her brain, the reason why she didn't apply for more jobs, was because her brother was cruel to her (and bought her a present).

But there we go. She has a strong feeling or several strong and hard feelings inside, and to explain them to herself, she looks for someone who mistreated her, and then she blames that person or those persons for her feelings. That's the way it works.
So even though my mom was at that birthday where sister wouldn't accept my presents, sister managed to convince my mom that sister couldn't apply for more jobs, bc of me. (until I reminded my mom, that sister got the job she really wanted at the interview next day).

Yeah, I really feel the anger inside, when I write this to you guys. ;) And quitegirl, yeah I have almost also stopped confronting my sister, bc it gets worse then. If I catch her in something - alternative facts (thx Kellyanne) - then sister freaks out. She cries, maybe yells, we can she that she hardly can be in her own body, and often she packs her stuff and says 'I can hear you guys want me to leave, so I'll leave'. And then my mom retreats and says 'No, don't leave. No one want's you to leave ... ." And I'm like 'Well, I want you to leave' (just thinking), and then she stays, and we have to complete that birthday with a gigantic elephant in the room.

All best Snoopy