Hello, I’m new to this board and I’m seeking guidance

[JNChell]

Hello, everyone . I hope you all had a nice holiday and are looking forward to the new year. I’ve made the decision that I want to start a new relationship with my S4’s mother. The chances of that are slim to none, but I have to try. I’ve been a member here for a little over a year. I showed up on Detaching, spent some time on Learning and have really gravitated to PSI lately. I’ve found this community to be quite welcoming, valuable and understanding. I’m here on this board to ask for help.

I believe that S4’s has traits,  but is subclinical. Stepping aside to look at the situation, I believe that I’ve been responsible for triggering her a lot. I’m diagnosed with C-PTSD, so I have that to work through. I received my diagnosis after the final break up.

My initial goal here is to learn more about and focus on the tools. I’ve been advised and understand that I’ll be playing the “long game” in this. I don’t want to pick up where we left off, I’d like to start a new relationship with her if the opportunity presents itself. She is currently in a relationship that has been going on for roughly a year. From what I’ve gathered, they got together around a month and a half after our split. I don’t want to be part of breaking them up. I have expressed to S4’s mom that I want to raise our child besid her. That I want to be with her. I explained that I’ve been working hard on myself and that I’ve been making progress. I left it there and haven’t heard anything back. It’s only been a day. In all likelihood, she won’t respond.

Firstly, I guess, what will be the most important tools to focus on when it comes to hopefully bettering the situation? We had a habit of being very high conflict with each other in the past. Maybe that’s a good place to start. I want to improve things, not block her out. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[itsmeSnap]

I want to start a new relationship with my S4’s mother

She is currently in a relationship that has been going on for roughly a year

I don’t want to be part of breaking them up

The chances of that are slim to none

I’d like to start a new relationship with her if the opportunity presents itself.

From all this I gather that you understand that the relationship, as far as romance goes, might not be possible at all and that you are willing to wait possibly a long time for the opportunity to come about, if at all. is that right?

Firstly, I guess, what will be the most important tools to focus on when it comes to hopefully bettering the situation?

As I always hear around these boards, you are the most important part. You have to work on yourself first and foremost. As far as tools go, acceptance of the current situation is the first thing that comes to mind.

I’m diagnosed with C-PTSD, so I have that to work through

is the diagnosis related in any way to your relationship with her?

I have expressed to S4’s mom that I want to raise our child besid her. That I want to be with her

Besides the obvious emotional turmoil from the holidays and your common connection due to your children, is there any (romantic) reason why you would want to go back to her now? has she shown any interest in getting back together?

I know it sounds like I'm questioning your motives. you know the situation better, if something she did triggered your reattachment to her that might help assess the situation to give you more actionable advice.

My gf split up with me and went back to her (cheating) ex, I know how it feels to want back a relationship with someone who is currently "unavailable".

Someone recommended to me that I just stay friends with her, whatever I wanted to "help her with" I could do as friends. I know you have kids with her and its not the same, but I'm sure some similar arrangement but with shared child care responsibilities is possible, is that something you would be willing to consider?

I read a few of your posts lately and I know you've been having a hard time, this longing for a relationship could make things a lot more turbulent. You have support here, gather your strength and stay grounded, be ready for whatever comes.

Wishing you the best JNChell

[once removed]

how often do the two of you speak, and what is usually the medium? text? email? phone?

do you ever see each other?

[JNChell]

Hi again, Snap. I appreciate your inquiries. After sitting with my feelings about S4’s mom, I’ll answer your questions the best that I can. Thanks for bringing me to task. 

I think that a reconciliation is highly unlikely. I wouldn’t actually describe it as a willingness to wait. The truth is in how I feel about her now that the acute feelings of depression and sadness have passed and that my anger and resentment towards her has really started to disappear. I do love her and the idea of raising a family with her. I feel a strong bond in the fact that we share a wonderful son together. That means a lot to me and I take it very seriously. I understand that her feelings for me don’t match mine. Our feelings may never align again and I’m prepared for that.

I agree with you 100% that working on myself is top priority. I’ve got a solid T and try to do good work here. I do accept the current situation for what it is. We’re no longer together and she is with another. That’s a big part in the reality of the situation. It does hurt a lot, but I’m grounded in what it is.

You know, I’ve never asked my T if part of my diagnosis is actually related to our relationship, or if the relationship was simply a trigger for my condition. My T is very skilled at relating how my feelings and reactions, at times, are relatable to things that I experienced as a child. My ex and I went through some troubling times, so maybe there is some new trauma there. I don’t know at this point.

The holidays have  been emotional for me here and there. She has not shown any interest in starting a new relationship. She seemed to be a little flirty when I picked our son up from her. Nothing over the top as we barely spoke to each other. I know that her interests are elsewhere now. I recently found myself very attracted to another woman. I’ve not had these feelings since meeting S4’s mom. It felt nice to know it’s still there, but it made me miss my ex in a way.

I’m certainly willing to explore becoming friends with her. I understand that this needs to be viewed as a “long game.” My ambitions here are to start new with her. I’d like to get to know her from a different POV. I’d like the opportunity to get to know her from a place of friendliness, empathy and compassion. Not through the lens of an anxiety disorder and a wounded inner child. That’s what I’d like to see happen if we’re ever able to get to a healthy level of communication. She’s not currently open to that, and I fully understand why. I’d eventually like to show her the best version of myself. When I become a thriver I may not be attracted to her anymore, but this is where I’m currently at.

I appreciate being able to speak with you about this. Thank you.

[JNChell]

Hey, or. We currently use a co-parenting ap. Our communication has been very poor since the split. This is the most important reason on why I want to learn the tools better. She won’t be proactive about this so I feel that I should be. Even if a reconciliation isn’t possible, I want to communicate with her better and be able to respect her better, even if she has trouble doing the same, because for one she’s the mother of our child, and two because she’s a human being. She had a hard way to go growing up and doesn’t need friction from her child’s father.

Right now the communication is sporadic. I’d say that the current average is every few days. We had to see each other for Thanksgiving and Christmas exchanges. Before that it had been the better part of a year since we’d seen each other face to face. I felt a lot of emotion in having to see her. Old feelings and strong attraction. The pull is alive and well in me.

[crushedagain]

In my opinion, the person who did the breaking up has all of the power. Therefore, if there's ever going to be a reconciliation it needs to start from that end.

If you broke up with her when she didn't want to, I'd say you have a decent chance at things, especially since you share a child. If she broke up with you and is in another relationship right now, I don't see the odds being very good at all. Worse, I think any attempt to win her back could be a source of great annoyance and make her like you even less.

People want what they can't have. A person who dumped somebody knows they have that person in their pocket, they decided they didn't want them and kicked them to the curb in favor of perceived greener pastures. Only when those greener pastures turn out to be dry, dusty fields do they sometimes regret what they did and start sending some feelers out to past flames. Oftentimes, these aren't even legitimate attempts at reconciliation, they're ego-boosting, selfish acts.

In my humble opinion, the best thing a man can do to be more desirable is to get into shape, get his entire "house" in order, then go find another woman. When your ex sees you doing fantastically, with a new, beautiful woman by your side, she'll probably be regretful. By that time, you'll likely not want her back. Good luck.

[JNChell]

You’re most likely right, crushedagain. Like I’ve stated, though, I also want to improve communication between she and I. I want to improve our relationship regardless of the status. I do appreciate pragmatism, but this is running deep for me. I feel like I’m well aware of everything involved. Thank you for your insight.

[once removed]

I also want to improve communication between she and I.

i think this is where it really starts.

most communication taking place on a coparenting app is a pretty high wall thats been erected. its "just business". thats going to need to go without a hitch, for perhaps some time, before the wall will get a little lower, but it can happen.

how much have you dove in to the communication tools?

[JNChell]

Not nearly enough. I know about SET and BIFF, but I don’t think that templates will necessarily get me to where I’d like to take this.

[once removed]

I know about SET and BIFF, but I don’t think that templates will necessarily get me to where I’d like to take this.

theyre like learning a new essay style, JNChell. as a kid, i was great at essays, always aced em. when i got to high school, they made us use a new format. i hated it. it felt awkward and stilted and i just wanted to write how i knew, the way i was good at. i didnt just hate it, i did badly several times. eventually though, i mastered it, i learned to bend it to me, and i grew in my essay writing ability.

the point is to learn the "template", to practice it, until it becomes natural, and its ingrained, and it makes you a better communicator, better able to connect with people of all kinds. i use SET every day when im posting to other members, but i dont sit there and write in a stilted way; it comes naturally from practice. i use BIFF every time im dealing with a difficult person in writing, and i want to keep things "just business" and drama free.

good communication is a skill (not a script) that demands practice. the nature of the communication between the two of you demands a whole lot of BIFF.

[JNChell]

Ok. I can see what you’re saying. Thanks for getting your paint brush out for this. In your time here, have you seen BIFF calm situations and open doors, or simply manage a situation?

[once removed]

BIFF is a communication tool that avoids drama and doesnt escalate it. it doesnt build relationships. thats not where things are at the moment. first things first.

you need a, perhaps long, series of no drama communications, before you can get anywhere else like opening doors. BIFF will help you do that.

can you give an example of what the last communication was like?

[JNChell]

I asked her where I would be dropping S4 off after his New Years visit. I also thanked her and told her that she did a good job in prepping S4 for the Christmas exchange. (He had a bad meltdown at the Thanksgiving exchange. This one was much easier on him). She responded by saying that I would take him  to her mom’s.

[once removed]

was there a lot of praise in your thanks?

also, how long ago was the most recent bad episode communication wise?

[JNChell]

No. It was basically how I stated it to you. It was short. I did tell her that she’s a good mom. Two sentences.

Bad communication hasn’t happened since Thanksgiving.

[once removed]

okay. and she kept it short like that?

it sounds like the exchange went fine. its just going to take a whole lot of those, boring, relatively friendly, exchanges (in contact or in person) before any ice can be broken. shes going to have to sense that not only is it more practical and efficient to contact you directly and be on better terms... .shes going to have to have incentive to want to. there is not much you can do to give her that, right away. slow and steady can win the day though, and build trust, and get the two of you on the same team.

does that make sense?

[JNChell]

Yes it does.

[JNChell]

Thanks.

[JNChell]

Ok. I’m pressing the brakes here. I read a thread on another board a couple of days ago that really got me thinking about this. I hadn’t  been looking at this from a high enough altitude. The pros and cons of a relationship were discussed in the thread that I mentioned. This part got me thinking. I do still love my ex and probably always will to a certain extent. She’s the mother of our child. The thing is, is that there is so much risk there for all involved.

1. Risk for the kids. She and I share a S4. She also has a D9 from another man. This whole thing has been hard enough on S4 up to this point, but I think he’s gradually feeling better. He’s beginning to understand that his mom and dad aren’t together anymore. He no longer makes comments about wanting mom and dad to be together.  What if he had to go through it all over again? I’m actually able to parent him on my time. I wasn’t really allowed to be the parent that I want to be when were together.

How confusing could this potentially be for D9? The example that she’s getting, IMO, isn’t a good one. Her mom has a pattern of jumping from relationship to relationship. Usually about a month in between and introduces the kids fairly quick. Maybe the relationship that she’s in will stick and D9 will observe something different.

2. Risk for me. I became very emotionally unwell within the dynamics of our relationship. The lowest I’ve ever been. From what little I’ve been able to gather, she hasn’t really changed. My progress has been slow, but I’m moving forward. I have to be mindful that with each recycle, it got drastically worse. I know more now than I did then but I don’t know enough. I risk destroying myself by pursuing this. I can’t allow that.

3. Risk for her. We were toxic together. We were unhealthy in front of the kids. She seems to be happy currently. I’m not one to stand down when it comes to accountability and responsibility. She has neither and I know that I put a lot of pressure on her because of this. She doesn’t respond well to pressure and I didn’t respond well to her reactions. We’re polarized in very important aspects of what a healthy relationship looks like to me.

I’m also coming away from this with a bit of guilt. I’ve been coveting her. She’s with another and I’ve reached out to her in ways that I shouldn’t have. I put myself in her SO’s shoes. I wouldn’t appreciate it if I was with someone who’s ex reached out to them in that way. In fact, I experienced this with my ex. She and I share a child, but she is his partner now.

I do want to improve my relationship with her, but as parents. I don’t know that we’ll ever be genuine friends. That would take a lot of work and letting go of the past on my part, but I’d like to see things improve. There is so much tension. Underneath all of the negativity, I do care about her.

There’s been a lot of emotion that has surfaced with having to see her in person after so much time has passed. Nostalgia, sexual tension and rumination. I need to keep moving myself forward and remember she and I for what we were.

[Bnonymous]

That all sounds very wise, JNChell.

I think the holidays can magnify the wish that things could be different to a point where it starts to look as though they are different. It can be difficult to zoom back out to look at the bigger picture like you just have done - it's quite an achievement to have been able to do this and I hope you are able to recognise that and take pride in it.

[JNChell]

Thank you, Bnonymous. I think that you’re right and I appreciate the encouragement. It’s become obvious that I’m still moving back and forth through the stages of detachment. Hopefully I’ll be better prepared the next time that I have to see her in person.

[once removed]

I’m also coming away from this with a bit of guilt. I’ve been coveting her. She’s with another and I’ve reached out to her in ways that I shouldn’t have. I put myself in her SO’s shoes. I wouldn’t appreciate it if I was with someone who’s ex reached out to them in that way. In fact, I experienced this with my ex. She and I share a child, but she is his partner now.

i admire this attitude a lot JNChell. i think its noble that you would not want to interfere in, try to disrupt, or come between her current relationship. i think (expressly) pushing to get back together, right now, would not serve you or her, whether she is in a relationship or not.

1. Risk for the kids.
... .
What if he had to go through it all over again?

this too, should be a primary consideration. if you were ever to get back together, it could be very confusing to your child. there would likely be some fear of a breakup happening again, and a lot of pain if that happened.

2. Risk for me. I became very emotionally unwell within the dynamics of our relationship.

you would need to be in a much stronger, healthier position if the two of you were to get back together... .

3. Risk for her. We were toxic together. We were unhealthy in front of the kids. She seems to be happy currently. I’m not one to stand down when it comes to accountability and responsibility. She has neither and I know that I put a lot of pressure on her because of this. She doesn’t respond well to pressure and I didn’t respond well to her reactions. We’re polarized in very important aspects of what a healthy relationship looks like to me.

... .and in order for it to last, you would need a very different game plan.

I do want to improve my relationship with her, but as parents.

there are, i think, two considerations here:

1. your mind may or may not change about this. you have gone back and forth between being adamant about detaching, to, as you have written on this board, expressing strong beliefs and wishes about the idea that the two of you should be together.

2. as i said previously, if you were to get back together, it would require a "long game" approach. it would require communication that extends beyond a coparenting app. it would require that her current relationship ends, and she has time to grieve and heal from that. its a long way off.

so, lastly, i think it all starts with "improving your relationship, but as parents". should you ever be certain you want to rekindle the relationship, the two approaches are not at odds, but very much compatible, and none of it need to compete with her current relationship, or confuse the children. it boils down to the two of you, on a basic level, getting along, and that would be good for everyone involved. theres a lot of overlap between the Co-Parenting and Bettering tools... .theyre about working better together as a team.

[JNChell]

or, yeah. Regardless of any direction things could possibly go, the foundation that was never set, most definitely needs to be set, no matter which way it goes. I can’t be with her. Not with who I am and what I see.

I have been going back and forth between her. My legs have flipped the fence quite a bit. I need to let it go. It’s hard with a child, but I think that I’ve seen what I need to.

I don’t see any reason to rekindle. It would be a risk for all involved. It would also require me to wait around revolve my life around getting her back and strictly require me to learn things that don’t have a guarantee. That’s just a bad deal all around.

S4 and I are eating Cheeze It’s and drinking chocolate milk while watching “Hotel Transylvania 3”.

It can’t happen. This hasn’t been forward thinking.

[once removed]

strictly require me to learn things that don’t have a guarantee.

i would still encourage you to learn the tools here, and on the co-parenting board.

what i can guarantee is that theyll take you far in future relationships. they really built my confidence and ability to navigate all kinds of people.