A front seat premium ticket to a freak show

[Cromwell]

and at one of the points of the performance of ludicrousy, they get a member of the audience pulled up on stage.

I regret the choice I made years ago to stop watching tv, it could have prevented a lot, I call it junkfood for the mind, but I went on and did immeassurably worse.

before I met her, i had a happy enough life and found entertainment in watching Dave. "how things are made", "ice road truckers in Alaska"

I had a job, a family, enough friends and enough sex, what I didnt have was a freak to waltz in.

so for the guy who had everything, then nearly lost it all, im left today back where I started, minus the freak show. No more ludicrous performances and no more madness and insanity.

"Cromwell you are so insensitive - you cant call her that"

"Cromwell, we are all victims here including your BPDx"

sorry but ill go with the words my step son told me the day I told her she wont ever be back

"the freak is gone!"

the medical and psychiatric services have their own agenda and remit in society, basically keep a lid on it all. monitor, dispense treatments and write their own rule book how to label and categorise the dysfunction that lowers productivity in society.

thats their world, not mine. Recovery is being in my mid 30s and being my own man. I discarded a freak who didnt care how her behaviour would damage other peoples lives. Her therapist didnt have to endure more than 40mins here and there, I did, and I only have myself to blame for willingly putting up with it.

"how its made" how about "i dont care".

"the freak is gone"

thats all that matters

[JNChell]

Cromwell, how’ve you been holding up with things? I’ve purposely been taking a few days off from interacting here to process some confusing thoughts that I’ve been having. Upon stopping by here for a look, it sounds like you’re down. The last material that I read from you on here was you admittedly posting and trying to give advice while drunk to a newer member. What’s going on man? You weren’t here a few weeks ago.

I understand the hurt, but this isn’t healthy and it doesn’t help you or anyone here. To be honest, it’s dark.

"Cromwell you are so insensitive - you cant call her that"

I haven’t weeded through your posts, but I’m pretty certain that you’ve never been told that you can or can’t come to your own conclusions. You’re quoting something that hasn’t happened here. If you can source it, my apologies. You’ve called your ex plenty of things here. Freak being the latest. What happened? Did you see her? Did she reach out somehow? Did you? Is it the holidays? What is going on?

I suggest reading back through your own posts to see how far you’d come up until recently. Other members were looking up to you due to your progress.

"Cromwell, we are all victims here including your BPDx"

Again, I’d like to ask you to source this. I have had some great discussions with you here. What I’m reading here is a great amount of pain. How deep have you been going into the bottle since you’ve already stated it on another thread?

"how its made" how about "i dont care"

You yourself have said that you have a personality disorder. You’ve never said which one or which cluster. I’ve a formal diagnosis with an anxiety disorder. C-PTSD. It’s tough stuff to process and work through. There’s a lot of crossover, trait wise, with BPD. It was “made” by severe childhood abuse. By severe, I mean having a loaded firearm pointed at me at point blank range by my father who was screaming at me that he was going to kill me. That’s one instance of my abuse. Does this make me a freak? What abuses did your ex suffer in her childhood? You don’t have to list them, but does it make sense to you why she’s not well?

the medical and psychiatric services have their own agenda and remit in society, basically keep a lid on it all. monitor, dispense treatments and write their own rule book how to label and categorise the dysfunction that lowers productivity in society.

BPD is still not well understood by the medical community and clinicians. It was once determined to be untreatable. It’s now at a fledgling stage of being somewhat treatable. Some sufferers are in recovery.

How are posts like the one that you made here productive for society, since you brought it up? I understand that you’re angry and hurt, but your post is hurtful.

What is going on here?

[JNChell]

On a side note, we need to be careful about the advice we are taking on our healing path. Richard Grannon makes some interesting arguments in his approach, I’ve seen a lot of his material online, but he isn’t a clinician. He’s an intelligent and charismatic  person that has suffered similar abuses that many of the members here have suffered. Just be mindful of what you choose to absorb and work with.

[Cromwell]

Hi I posted a reply to both, (but it got lost somewhere) so this is a summary. thanks Red5 for the video I watched it all, some interesting stuff like "projective identification".

but to summarise, this is venting after 3rd night no sleep, no remission of flashbacks. I should be drinking but im not.

JNChell: it was PD not specified. Probably a bit of irony here that it helped protect me. sleeping with her friends, calling her 'nasty' names - i think if I would have done everything by the good book, id feel today like I was some walked over 'nothing', almost spineless. JNChell, there are people out there who have been abused and chosen NOT to ever do it - because they acknowledge the hurt - what is it that makes them different? or do we just find a label called BPD and infer that anything they choose to dish out is always just a manifestation of some deep rooted trauma - and nothing more?

that link is to tenuous, in some cases yes, in others - what is there to say she just wasnt an evil C that enjoyed it and hid behind a BPD label that is almost the equivalent of a licence to do whatever the hell she wants.

[JNChell]

but to summarise, this is venting after 3rd night no sleep

I’m sorry to hear about this. Insomnia is a terrible experience. Have you thought about a sleep aid or seeing a physician? Melatonin works well, but it can cause some pretty wild dreams.

JNChell, there are people out there who have been abused and chosen NOT to ever do it - because they acknowledge the hurt - what is it that makes them different?

I don’t really think that there’s a definite answer here, only ideas. Obviously everyone is very different. Maybe it’s as simple as influences outside the walls of the abuse as to why sufferers turn out in different ways. I’d never pondered that idea until reading it her. It makes sense to me. Personally, I have a great deal of empathy for anyone that has suffered abuse. I know how it feels. I understand your POV on how that doesn’t justify an abused person to abuse others. I agree with you on that. I’m learning that the cycle has to end somewhere, though. A conscious decision has to be made to do it. Fatherhood has reinforced this for me.

You know, I wonder if it is a choice or a lack of being able to choose sometimes. This is all spectrum stuff. I know how it feels to feel really bad and I’ve been very low at points in my life, but I don’t know how it feels to feel so bad to read about some of things that I’ve witnessed here.

Go easy on yourself, Cromwell. Get some sleep and ease up on the drinking. I guess that’s a silly thing to say with New Years coming up, but you know what I mean.

[Cromwell]

Thanks JNChell

I got a few hours and feel better for it.

I feel a bit better to have purged some of the flashbacks.

sorry i didnt in any way mean that anyone going to therapy is a freak. Ive been twice and to some extent it helped. the thing that I have to accept is regardless of the catastrophe she has made like a tornado has ripped through my life - this is not exaggeration I would have coped better, I probaby would have had more relaxation joining the marines as Red5 has been through. I have to accept that she has a disorder that has disproportionatly reacted to perceived 'faults' that I have in her mind allegedly commited against her.

id push her away and the recylce always within a few weeks - I saw the girl that presented herself in my mind as "oh, thank f, the real her that I fell in love with is back" maybe she was on a drug comedown or something, or maybe it is just one of those bumps in the relationship road that happen - in the long run things will iron out. (i tried to rationalise it, and who knows, these are valid factors that will no doubt have played a part in it too)

Its the same old boring narrative that plays out on this board timelessly, not discouraging anyone but its been a year and ive heard it ad nauseum, from myself too - and maybe thats actually a good thing.

all the best to you, thanks for being there for me - 2019 beckons, last year was huge progress even if there are days that feel like its back to square one. As Red5 said we will all make it.

I feel the bPD drone has been circling just too much this last week and I know why - its "holiday" time from work. I thought I was doing well, but its been this addiction to work that has just served an excellent distraction to be forced to compartmentalise it. A holiday isnt really a 'holiday', like it is supposed to be. Its vomit time, purge time, ive made new friends and could be/should be living a bit with the new year. but its too much to go through, so what, ill make the most of it - im unwell and ill make up for it somehow anyway.

[Al Kaseltzer]

I too have had off since Christmas and it has really done nothing but made me dwell on things. These weeks of holidays have been an absolute nightmare. As JNChell said, hope you're ok because I've appreciated your insights to some of my problems since I've joined. That goes for all of you. I spent the last hour going over how many times my ex didnt know what she wanted, or wanted to take a break and how quickly it would happen and just the amount of emotional stress that had put on me throughout. It was and is still maddening.

To a better 2019 for all of us hopefully!

[Cromwell]

Thanks Al Kaseltzer

I think what i wanted to get across is (and i think most people got it)

I was part of the freak show, and willingly participated in it.

Al, I have friends who would have had a girl like her, been cheated on - shrugged their shoulders, blocked her, wouldnt have went near a psychiatry book but just concluded "thats what you get for putting your D into crazy"

Its not that i want - to be like that, far from it, but I want to find more ground between how I acted and find a more emotionally concrete place where stuff like this (BPD extreme as it might have been) doesnt put me into that place again. It got to the stage near the end of the r/s where I heard stuff from her ("your crazy", as well as during the r/s "I dont know why im with you, it is madness".

I would have brushed off stuff like that  - at the start - of the r/s, rightfully as "silly talk"

but as time went on, the words started to get too close for comfort. Behind all the lies and deceit and cheating, stalking and what not - there were grains of truth in what she came out with. There are stories about people going into institutions and if they werent really that impaired when they went in, they were by the time they got stuck in that environment. Triggers, I never knew of them before but -eventually- ammased them and it is down to the simple logic of being influenced by the company we keep. I was more isolated from friends and family, more becoming used to bizarre and hurtful behaviour as "the norm". Its not healthy and it doesnt happen overnight, that is the insidious danger of it - if you are emotionally vulnerable and susceptible to be swayed into it - as I was.

But I escaped my cast in the freak show and who knows what mistakes 2019 will bring?

and it is only 21 hours to go here, I cant wait to be free from the emotional melee. Im not hoping anymore Al Kaseltzer, although hope is what I clung to when I never knew how to do anything else. Im making this happen. Its just history after all?

[Al Kaseltzer]

Cromwell, couldn't agree more. I invited myself to play a role too and there was certainly enough time apart and unhealthy behavior experienced for me to get out. And yet forget about staying put, I begged for more of it. I too have friends who would have just bolted after a few months, or after hearing some awful things said to them; would have just been like "eff this".  No questions asked,they'd just move on. So a lot of this becomes about introspection for me at least.

[JNChell]

Hey, Crom, I’m glad that you were able to catch some Z’s. Sorry it’s taken me a few to get back.

the thing that I have to accept is regardless of the catastrophe she has made like a tornado has ripped through my life

Right? If I can pile on that, it was more than once that the storm came and went. Metaphorically speaking, I did rain dances. Hmm. Here we are. We’re on different continents sharing very similar things. Thank you for opening up  about something very personal. Leaps and bounds, my friend. Sometimes little steps. It doesn’t matter as long as it’s moving forward.

I remember how good it felt to see S4’s mom coming back. I also remember how short lived and hostile it became each time.

Its the same old boring narrative that plays out on this board timelessly, not discouraging anyone but its been a year and ive heard it ad nauseum, from myself too - and maybe thats actually a good thing.

I think that you should recognize yourself here and the contributions that you’ve made to the board. Yes, it can get a bit repetitive, but that is part of understanding how familiar detachment is in these situations. I think that’s important.

The holidays are hard. I scratched through them myself. All in all, they were pretty good considering everything. They were better than they were last year.

im unwell and ill make up for it somehow anyway.

What’s up here?

[Cromwell]

The holidays are hard. I scratched through them myself. All in all, they were pretty good considering everything. They were better than they were last year.

im unwell and ill make up for it somehow anyway.

What’s up here?

Hi JNChell, thats a good way of putting it, the holidays have been a spawn of rumination but if I put that to one side, yep, better than last year and the ruminating has stopped now, but it made me unwell, sleep patterns out of sync. When I say about making up for it, I think holiday times, birthdays etc, its important to make them special. I feel that im going to do something else this year special to make up for it.

I think the hardest part of my recovery has been getting over the stalking aspect, as time goes on I can breathe a little to at least have the hope that she will stay away, its all that I want. With such an amount of time elapsed she will have had to cancel me out of the network. Ive reflected on some stuff that I never thought about before and I think its down to actually getting now to a clear head space, combined with knowledge here and putting it together. Its difficult stuff, emotionally and to figure out rationally, but I feel like im at the point where I can lay it to rest and move on. Hope you are keeping well and thanks for the upbeat support it helps 

[JNChell]

Cromwell, I’m forcing myself to stay awake. S4 is asleep within arms reach.

The holidays are hard man. I spent mine amongst good friends, but my belly took me back to her at times. I miss the mother of my child. It’s not acute anymore, but it’s there.

I’ve wondered about the stalking and how it made you feel. Sorry. Inquiring minds want to know. You’re not a fearful person. How did you feel when you were being stalked?

[Cromwell]

Cromwell, I’m forcing myself to stay awake. S4 is asleep within arms reach.

The holidays are hard man. I spent mine amongst good friends, but my belly took me back to her at times. I miss the mother of my child. It’s not acute anymore, but it’s there.

I’ve wondered about the stalking and how it made you feel. Sorry. Inquiring minds want to know. You’re not a fearful person. How did you feel when you were being stalked?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK6aqkBy7Uk

On the second part of the video that follows, go to 5min 13... .

"maybe you want to say something to your victims, do you feel any remorse?"

(no reply)

"your smiling! what is funny about any of this?" (incorrigible all their life, its not going to magically change by simply being arrested)

Then 5.40 - a scripted act that anyone can see is words that lack any empathy. More snake behaviour.

The difference in this and the UK, 9 years jail versus 9 months.

To answer the question, how did I feel - its like being a deer in a crosshair for 24/7. How does it feel now? Like having just dodged a bullet and the knowledge of having had just enough wit and strength to escape a psycho that I fell in love with. and I just had a taster of what this guy went through.

so when I read silly posts here that are egocentric "oh people with BPD arent evil, its a serious mental illness"

hold back with the generalisations and the apologistic tone. This might have been your specific case, at the end of the day as shown here, it means next to nothing when it comes to sentencing, for good reason, the courts are briefed on the condition and know that these behaviours are still carried out with mens-rea. (guilty intent).

sorry if i sound moody, but it helped to vent that. I shake my head in disbelief not anymore about being fearful as I once was, but how terribly sad she is and that I just cant figure out how polemic my feelings and judgement was at first and the horror that befall me from being able to unmask who she truly was. It is just such a contrast to be able to adjust anywhere near to that the shock of it is what ive needed therapy to start the process of comprehending. That such people exist was not part of my world paradigm.

But yea JNChell, im fine now buddy, no more having to go up and then down the escalators haha. (i didnt do this but I wasnt far off)  

just as a side note, the woman in this was not diagnosed with BPD, but something else not that it specially matters for the point im putting across.

[In a bad way]

Cromwell ,
I will have to get back to you on this one but I

[In a bad way]

Good god even the internet freaks out. I will reply tomorrow, it cut off and posted the first few words of my post.

[JNChell]

Cromwell, she isn’t a “psycho”. She’s unwell, man. I understand the way that she hurt you. She’s not well. She’s not healthy. I’m not sticking up for her. I have your back 100%, but you calling her these things presents you as still being somewhat attached. Stuck, bro.

I haven’t followed the link yet. I will.

I don’t think that the folks here are egocentric in recognizing BPD as a mental illness instead of evil. BPD is a personality disorder, Cromwell. Try to have some remorse for your ex. It will only help you.

She hurt you in big ways. I’m sorry about that. I truly am, but you’re not serving yourself in this. You’re not becoming a better version of yourself by calling her these things. Maybe you should process the relationship a little more here. I’m just being pragmatic here.

What do you want to do? Would you like to move forward and see what compassion and empathy feels like, or do you want to continue swimming in toxic soup that keeps you down? You visited PSI briefly. It appeared that it was a little overwhelming for you there. You have layers, Cromwell. Peel them.

[Cromwell]

I have gathered a lot of empathy for her condition, it has changed my thoughts as much as it also has dampened down a lot of the hurtful emotions. But stalking is often a precursor for worse things to follow, and when I realised I had been, it doesnt leave you in a state to have the luxury to think straight and figure out "why", it is menacing and the texts she sent some of them threatening and it felt like I was in the midst of a psycho movie. Whatever happened to the seemingly normal woman I had loved and done so much to help and protect? It felt just so bizarre to be seemingly hated for - loving someone and doing your best for them. But you are right about moving on from it, sometimes I feel the need to vent but these are becoming rarer moments and triggers im starting to identify and try to halt them better. Thanks for your support here JNChell it means alot and helps alot.

[JNChell]

Hey, Crom. I have C-PTSD. I suspect that my ex has traits of boderline and narcissism. My condition condtributed to the eventual downfall of my relationship with S4’s mom. It wasn’t only her. Do you see what I’m trying to say to you? My baggage collided with her baggage once I was hooked.

Man, it’s important to look at ourselves through this. Casting blame takes away from that. If we can’t look at and identify what we want to change in ourselves, we simply become actors to those that we wish to attract.

[Cromwell]

Thats a really good way to put it JNChell because I do think more now that the worse of the anxiety ebbs away and think more about my role, it was part baggage part very vulnerable circumstances I was in when I met her. Id briefly dated girls like her intermittently in the past but always was quick to discard - but I was in a stable place to think clearly.

I did tell my ex "look, youve probably met me in the worst time of my life" in a sort of apologetic way. She didnt seem to care in a good or bad way.

Meeting her was like having a lot of dormant issues suddenly catalysed, I have never in my life felt so disturbed - so "full on" in a r/s, and emotionally expired. I dated a girl for a year with ADHD, and there was not an sliver of the intensity of this.

Thanks for all the support on this, It doesnt help when I read NPD articles and make tenuous links to her, despite like you have said about your ex, there is a suspected blend of both, I feel the same and it sometimes triggers the anxiety back along with anger.

It does help to go through it though, I generally feel Ive hit calmer waters these days. Ive never been so happy to go back to work JNChell, 'holidays' are not my thing anymore .

[Red5]

Yeah,#Me2,

When I met uBPDw back in 2007, I’d been divorced a whole fifteen months, with semi-serious relationship “during”... .yeah I went and jumped right back into the deep end of the pool after a near death drowning life event.

... .not smart.  

I should have “layed out” and got my own brain housing group properaly “flushed out”.

... .talk about “unclaimed baggage” at the airport!

... .”and what’s behind door one hundred and one” (elude 1984),

Reminds me of that television show, “Storage Wars”... .or “Salvage Dogs”... .LoL, what the heck was I thinking.

The rest is history,

I’ve read a whole lot about “trauma bonding”... .

I still remember the very first time I laid eyes upon her... .first date, we met at the “Four Corners Diner” in Atlantic Beach... .

She looked sad and worried... .no $hit... .I am being completely honest... .she had this sad and forlorn look on her face... .

Wow ; (

Well, I’m in the “dry dock” now... .she’s been gone now 43+15 daze.

The ruminating continues... .

Pass the rum~

Red5

[JNChell]

Hey, Cromwell. I know what you mean about expressing your vulnerabilities and it feeling neither here nor there. The first time I opened up to S4’s mom about my childhood she cried. This was immediately after being intimate and looking back, I comforted her because of her emotions. I remember it vividly. I don’t know if her tears were sincere or not. That was the only time that I can recall her showing any real concern over how I was feeling. Eventually, I was basically told to man up and just get over my stuff.

Meeting her was like having a lot of dormant issues suddenly catalysed

Man, this speaks volumes to me. My crap came to the surface in a short amount of time. It’s all out now (I hope) and it doesn’t feel very good, but it’s necessary for it to be here. Looking back to when I first arrived here, I can see that I’ve made progress. It doesn’t always feel that way because the progress has been subtle. I can say the same for you. Your progress is obvious to see and I’m proud of you.

It does help to go through it though, I generally feel Ive hit calmer waters these days. Ive never been so happy to go back to work JNChell, 'holidays' are not my thing anymore Laugh out loud (click to insert in post).

The only way out is through, my friend. Sorry to get a little nerdy here, but I often equate the journey to Frodo from Lord of the Rings. I wonder sometimes if Tolkien was that brilliant of a writer, or if he was simply skilled in putting his life’s story into a way that people would really be able to see it and embrace it. Sorry for getting out there a bit. Just a thought.

You know, the holidays haven’t really been my thing for a while now. I’ve been guilty of basically pushing them aside and viewing them from a scope of consumerism. The thing that I’m starting to realize, thanks to a 4 year old boy, is that these holidays are traditions that long outdate any thoughts that I might have. Tradition is a good thing. It’s where memories are made and a place and season to lay down our burdens and celebrate life for a while. It’s a coming together with whoever that might be. The holidays felt warm for me for the first time in a long time. Thanks for talking and listening, Cromwell.

[Cromwell]

Sorry to get a little nerdy here, but I often equate the journey to Frodo from Lord of the Rings. I wonder sometimes if Tolkien was that brilliant of a writer, or if he was simply skilled in putting his life’s story into a way that people would really be able to see it and embrace it. Sorry for getting out there a bit. Just a thought.

Not at all JNChell,

if there is anything I can relate to here is, Bilbo Baggins, Harry Potter or any other equivalents ive came across so far, they all made infinitely more sense than she ever will to me!

I hope you keep chalking up some good memories and make the best of the time with your son I think stuff like that pays dividends in the situation we are at. Even in this year, it has helped a lot to conciously do new things that have brought joy, it has helped to think of them and recognise there is less need to dwell on the recent traumas. I never used to do this much and thought it would be something for the nursing home era of my life but it has in this situation been a big help to recall better times before I met her and since leaving her. I try to concentrate less on the good times with her as much as the traumatic because to have this happy nostalgia comes at the expense of asking "well, what happened" and then the upsetting ruminations kick in.

So for others reading, its worked for me to stop focusing on the r/s altogether. The memories are always there regardless, to retrieve whenever. but in this stage of trying to recover they are too emotively destructive. Same goes for external triggers, songs, places etc. Turn the off button on the radio, and avoid going there. It has helped to condition the mind that it has choice not to allow stimuli that has been known to cause distress, or to actively seek it out.

[Husband321]

so when I read silly posts here that are egocentric "oh people with BPD arent evil, its a serious mental illness"

Holidays are slow for me as well, and I did spend some time thinking of my BPD ex...   Her ex husband called to tell me what was going on with my ex wife. . She met a new guy, moved into his home, set a date to marry, but this time she was pregnant with his baby.  Within 2 weeks she left him, moved across the country, and is keeping the baby.

As for the "evil" comment, what else do you call someone who keeps destroying lives, knowingly, but does it through lies, misdirection, and presenting a false self?  How many men, and how many children does this woman need to hurt, before she stops?

And keep in mind the men she keeps meeting, most likely have no idea about BPD. They are not where we are at. She just appears to be an intelligent, articulate, sexy woman who is an "empath" who just wants nothing more to love and be loved deeply... Thats how she starts, until she destroys.

 And obviously the same for the children she love bombs as well, just to abandon. 

So both are true in my opinion... These people are sick, yet also evil.

[JNChell]

As for the "evil" comment, what else do you call someone who keeps destroying lives, knowingly, but does it through lies, misdirection, and presenting a false self?

Mentally ill. Unwell. What do you perceive people to be that stay in the dance with these “evil” people?

[Cromwell]

As for the "evil" comment, what else do you call someone who keeps destroying lives, knowingly, but does it through lies, misdirection, and presenting a false self?  How many men, and how many children does this woman need to hurt, before she stops?

I didnt ever label it as evil, which is why i stuck around, I found every other excuse for it.

[Husband321]

As for the "evil" comment, what else do you call someone who keeps destroying lives, knowingly, but does it through lies, misdirection, and presenting a false self?

Mentally ill. Unwell. What do you perceive people to be that stay in the dance with these “evil” people?

When someone meets her, she does not come off as "evil".  She comes off as loving, sincere, and describes herself as an "empath".

For us that been through it, we now have hindsight. We notice red flags. We are more cautious.  Most men who have not been through it do get sucked up in the dance, and feel they found the perfect woman.

Then as I think Cromwell describes, as things do start to go wrong, it is easy to blame yourself,(as the woman you love is also blaming you) or think it is just how women are, or believe that love conquers all, or believe that some of those issues are just normal, everyday relationship bumps in the road.

People are not used to being lied to in such a believable manner.

Now if a man dates and marries several BPD women in a row, then perhaps I could draw conclusions on him. If a man tries to work things out with his current BPD, and is relatively naive to it all, I would say that is normal.

As for my ex, she abandoned her 2 children from a previous marriage and cheated on that guy for 10 years. It was tough for him to figure out what to do as they have children.  My ex was trying to get pregnant with me until the day before she disappeared.  She then got pregnant with another man after me, and abandoned him. So that guy will also be on the hook in some way for the next 18 years.

She knows she has issues. Yet continues to hook unsuspecting men. Then she even abandons her children...

It is like asking "What would you say about all the children, and step children she abandons ?" Ok, she is mentally ill, but it is also evil to them.

[Husband321]

So sometimes, if someone comes here for advice they obviously want things to work.  And they are taught tools on how to deal better, how to communicate etc. and many times one even acquires more sympathy for they BPD mate.

Other, less scientific message boards are just like "wow.  BPD is pure evil.  It will destroy  your life.  Run"

If anyone ever asks me, even with all I learned, I would advise the second option.  The first option often times can put someone into a more dangerous situation with someone who is mentally ill as time goes by.

[Husband321]

As for the "evil" comment, what else do you call someone who keeps destroying lives, knowingly, but does it through lies, misdirection, and presenting a false self?

Mentally ill. Unwell. What do you perceive people to be that stay in the dance with these “evil” people?

You do realize that when people come to this site it normalizes mental illness.  Right on the front page is an article stating "23 percent of people have mental illness".

So I don't follow the logic.  Many who give advice here, and many of the articles help to convince a non to stay.  But Then  there are also comments and a theme of thought similar to yours. "Well you must also be messed up if you stayed with a BPD"

If the theme was "run, they are evil", and someone still stayed, then the latter logic would make more sense. "What is wrong with you.  We told you to run". 

 But it can't be both ways.  "Here are tips to stay with your BPD.  Mental illness is common.  You need to change how you talk".   But then also add "wow.  You are messed up for being with a BPD yourself"

[Cromwell]

It is just this using the term BPD and mental illness so interchangably that I find can hamper perspective.

You can have one and not necessarily the other.

[once removed]

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