PART 2: Holidays, vacation, surgery, BPD charades

[snowglobe]

Part 1 of this thread is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=332418.0

Snowglobe,
How are things going? It sounds like you need a vacation to recover from your vacation!

Cat

That would be pretty accurate statement given the circumstances. UBPDh is cycling between hypomanic and depressive, extremely irrational and irritated. Things such as “once we get rid of the car (which is “gifted” to me after tying my bday two years ago, it was leased. Now, that he lost a major source of income, we can no longer afford it. Frankly, I’m not sad to see it go. It was never my car, he would drill my brain, like a Woody Woodpecker, for the tiniest fraction of dirt. I wasn’t allowed to eat, drink, put my feet up on the seat, as it was his “baby” and a spare pair of his testicules. It brought nothing but a social status and a statement. It was never about me, it was his  dream, camouflaged as a present) you will return the car sticker and go to purchase me a separate sleeping arrangement. I find you repulsive, and I promise you to make your life miserable. I am moving, and your “comfortable” life will change forever. First, I will kick your parents out, then I will sell the house, and will be done with you forever”. I can’t describe the pain and anguish I’m feeling. Heartbroken is an understatement. I feel betrayed. I feel disappointed. I feel hurt. I feel disgusted. I feel sad. I feel angry. I feel like I want to lash out. I feel like I want to avoid him.
The next second, while I look at him quietly, he asks me “why do you look like that?. Stop looking at me like that, I hate it!”
I feel a great sense of despair and I feel that I can’t love a person who does this to me. I also realize that instead of being able to speak to me about the things he can, or can not afford, he goes along at the moment. Just like my plastic surgery, which he fully paid for, the accommodations, hotels, food, some semblance of an entertainment, trip related expenses. Now, he feels like the price for him was too high, especially, since he isn’t sleeping with me sexually. We only had it handful times in a span of two weeks at his request.
He wants to sever the ties. He is a magical thinker. According to his logic, because he decided that he is done with me, I’m supposed to evaporate, and crawl under some log and die from sadness. He is inflicting all kinds of wounds to what’s already been done. Maybe I should let him go?. Maybe, by being so persistent and trying to save our marriage at all costs I’m actually stopping both of us from being happy?.

[Notwendy]

We've discussed "word vomit" in some other threads- the hurtful things a pwBPD can say when they are dysregulating, but sometimes they are just words. I know they can be very hurtful, but your H has been saying these things for a while, and he's still with you.

One of the acronyms for FEAR is false evidence appearing real. Your H says ( and does) some scary things, but in the long run, he still comes through- he took the family on vacation, paid for the surgery. He may not have used the best judgement to pay for things he can't afford but he hasn't tossed his family out, even though he has threatened.

Part of this financial chaos is not discriminating between what is a want and what is a need. You have  a say in this too. If there are financial stresses in a family, then this distinction needs to be made when considering expenses. PwBPD also have co-dependent traits- and your H overextended himself perhaps because he doesn't want to say no to his family. Perhaps it means something to him to be the hero- the one who says yes to the European vacation- and then realizes when he gets there, he can't afford it. What kind of stress is he under to come up with the means for these "wants"? It's fine to do these things if they are affordable, but if he can't afford them, and he's feeling he can't say no to them, it makes sense for him to feel ambivalent and stressed.

[formflier]

and he's still with you.

This was really more my point about "calling his bluff". 

That you don't have to be a robot that does all his demands.  Because ultimately... what does your hubby want?  His Teddy... .(that's you)

FF

[snowglobe]

We've discussed "word vomit" in some other threads- the hurtful things a pwBPD can say when they are dysregulating, but sometimes they are just words. I know they can be very hurtful, but your H has been saying these things for a while, and he's still with you.

One of the acronyms for FEAR is false evidence appearing real. Your H says ( and does) some scary things, but in the long run, he still comes through- he took the family on vacation, paid for the surgery. He may not have used the best judgement to pay for things he can't afford but he hasn't tossed his family out, even though he has threatened.

Part of this financial chaos is not discriminating between what is a want and what is a need. You have  a say in this too. If there are financial stresses in a family, then this distinction needs to be made when considering expenses. PwBPD also have co-dependent traits- and your H overextended himself perhaps because he doesn't want to say no to his family. Perhaps it means something to him to be the hero- the one who says yes to the European vacation- and then realizes when he gets there, he can't afford it. What kind of stress is he under to come up with the means for these "wants"? It's fine to do these things if they are affordable, but if he can't afford them, and he's feeling he can't say no to them, it makes sense for him to feel ambivalent and stressed.

NotWendy,
I’m amazed at just how insightful you are, and here is why:
Word diarrhea- yes unpleasant, some things are just a talk, others are words that are followed by an action. I can never be sure which one that is, it’s 50/50 chance for both. Which triggers me, and builds on other fears and cptsd like symptoms.
This trip, in fact was something that was planned in early November, when all was still well, he was still running the public company. The shuttering news of the contract termination came in early December, we already had plane tickets, accommodations, and despiser for the surgery prepaid. I’m going to be honest with you, I would have never taken this trip, even upon his insistence, if I knew that things were going to work out the way they did. We didn’t have cancellation insurance on everything, there were potential losses if we had cancelled. Furthermore, I wanted to stay in one place, where the surgery was performed. He didn’t want that, insisted on the travel, as he grows bored and restless in one place.
I keep on asking myself the same question; was it narcissistic of me to still go through with the surgery, even when I knew that he was dysregulated and lost?.
The answer that I give myself if the same one my therapist gave me when I consulted her on the matter. I asked her:” should I go through with the trip and the surgery or cancel? I won’t get all of the money back, but vast majority will be reimbursed”. She replied: “ if he were to loose the money, what do you think his actions will be like?”
“ he is likely to make my life a living hell, to remind me on a minute basis that I’m a selfish cow, who didn’t earn a dollar for this trip to cancel. That he was going to leave me, that I’m the reason for his failures.”
“And if you went ahead with the plan?” She asked me.
“Likely the same thing” I replied.
“What does your wisemind tell you?” She asked me
After some contemplation I replied:
“I’m going through with the plan, uBPDh was supportive of the idea initially, when the plans were made. Neither of us had any way of knowing. I’m sorry this is happening now, but I feel that if I won’t take this opportunity, I might not have another chance.”
UBPDh loves being a hero, as you correctly identified. Surgery for me, obscene amount for kids gifts and clothes. He is used to buying love. It hasn’t originated with me, as he used this tactic prior to our relationships. I was resisting it initially. Until I realized a hard truth. I wasn’t walking out on him either way. On one hand I can reject his offerings and feel self righteous. Or I can accept them, and gain some much needed resources.
In conclusion, what you wrote about him feeling stressed and pressured is absolutely correct. That is exactly why he is doing and saying what he is doing and saying. What is also true, I only wanted the surgery and to stay in the same country to heal, the one that isn’t part of European Union. It’s cheaper for us to be there then even back home. Country hopping was all his idea, from distinctions to the duration. He bit off much more then he could swallow.

[formflier]

This trip, in fact was something that was planned in early November, when all was still well

Can you describe what life was like for you in November, "when all was still well"?

I certainly believe I have an insight into your life when BPD is causing chaos, I don't really understand the better side of your life.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Snowglobe, just wondering... .did you do the surgery because you wanted it, or did you do it to please him?

[snowglobe]

Can you describe what life was like for you in November, "when all was still well"?

I certainly believe I have an insight into your life when BPD is causing chaos, I don't really understand the better side of your life.

FF

Ff, you are a master of words. Yes, indeed, the pun is on me. “All was well, means that he still had a contract position, where he was “earning” a fair amount, which he, in fact, wasn’t receiving regularly. I was traveling with him, as you remember. If I were completely honest with you, I think I need to paint the full picture. Full disclosure. Here it comes. He is tight-fisted with money, usually. When he is abusing the substance and wants me to “play along” to his fantasies, he is using the very things I/kids/my parents need as a bargaining chips. If you do xyz, I just might be in a good mood and give you/kids/parents what you have always wanted. It’s hard to stay awake for over 24 hrs while providing a human entertainment. The one I grew to resent. When I keep my eyes on the prize, it makes me numb. I can tolerate it long enough until he passes out. I make arrangements/bug things/solidify the plans right there on the spot. A few times I delayed with the arrangement making. You can guess what happened. Once he sobered up, poof, so did the promises.
This time, early November he got “organized” on his own accord, I never facilitate or participate. I only ceased the opportunity. He was mentioning to our relatives about going away for the New Years, which he wanted to do himself. Then he started going back and fourth. I wanted the surgery. Then there was a catalyst for booking and arranging. He didn’t go back on the plan initially. Was it manipulating on my part? My therapist cautions me from using a judgemental language. She says that I’m doing my best to survive and get mine and the children’s needs met. In no way do I push him into harms way. He offers the deal, and I take it. I don’t try to force him into making this kind of arrangement. The times when he is abusing, are the only times for him to listen to me, feel and show empathy and compassions.
Things are never a calm sea for me for more then a week. You have raised a very important point for me, to work through with my therapist. How would my life look like if I gave myself the very things I wanted?.
For him, I know, it would feel dimaasculindimasculating, as he had stated that repeatedly. He needs his Teddy, not an independent woman, capable of making her own choices.

[snowglobe]

Snowglobe, just wondering... .did you do the surgery because you wanted it, or did you do it to please him?

Cat, thank you for asking.
Here is an honest look at my reasoning.
From the times that I can remember, my foo was saying how I’m a very pretty girl with an exception of a certain facial feature. If only I could fix it, I would be a looker. I grew up longing to change that very part.
When uBPDh started verbal abuse, he would say: “turn your ugly face away from me, your “part” is ugly. Those words just stirred the old wounds. When uBPDh offered to go to away to the “country”, I ceased it as a chance for a cheaper modification of the same part. I followed the surgeon on a social media for a while by then, so making that decision didn’t take any effort. I did not opt for a “drastic” change, only slight modification and fixing of the “functionality”, much to uBPDh’s regret. He thought that once I was done, it would be like “unwrapping a new toy”. That didn’t happen. Now is is even angrier for paying a pretty dollar, and I still look very similar to what I looked like before.
Deep inside I know I have done this for myself, to silent those voices that are telling me that I’m not enough.

[Notwendy]

Are you happy with the results? That's all that matters.

I have a childhood friend who did not have a pretty nose and it bothered her. After high school, her parents let her get it fixed. ( I think they had to wait until she was fully grown). It made a big difference to her, emotionally and I think they did the right thing for her confidence.

However, surgery does not repair a larger sense of unhappiness.

I think it's important to focus on the surgery being for you- to fix something you have been bothered with since childhood. However, had you been OK with your body and fixed it to try to please your H, you know that would not be a long lasting relationship repair. The issues in your marriage are emotional to both of you and you know that surgery won't fix that.

I think it is good that the surgeon was conservative in the repair. You should look like you. Some celebrities have gone too far (IMHO) with surgery and they don't look like themselves or even realistic. I also hope for you that you can gain some self love, independent of what your H thinks. Surgery won't fix projected unhappiness. He's not going to be happy with the results as he isn't happy himself.

[Notwendy]

For him, I know, it would feel dimaasculindimasculating, as he had stated that repeatedly. He needs his Teddy, not an independent woman, capable of making her own choices.


You are capable of making your own choices but there can be a cost  ( and benefit )to choices. Choosing to be a Teddy has certain perks. Your H is generous when he is also abusing you. Being a Teddy is a way to ensure your family's survival - and that's understandable but also he provides things like vacations, luxury cars, cosmetic surgery. He needs you to be his Teddy to make himself feel good and like a "man". Feeling needed feels secure.

I think all relationships have a cost/benefit to them and each one is individual in that each person can have different needs. You both meet each other's needs in ways and both benefit. To change this pattern, you would have to want the change enough to risk losing the benefits.

[snowglobe]

However, surgery does not repair a larger sense of unhappiness.

The issues in your marriage are emotional to both of you and you know that surgery won't fix that.

I also hope for you that you can gain some self love, independent of what your H thinks. Surgery won't fix projected unhappiness. He's not going to be happy with the results as he isn't happy himself.

Dear Wendy,
I went and got it purely for myself, there was a slight deviation, which would keep me congested at times. This seems the core of the problem, that it wasn’t because he wanted me to get it. It was done so I feel and look better.
His remarks “you don’t look like a model” were taken to the next level, to be exact, this is what happened last night. We had a 40 hrs connecting flights from Europe back home. Exhaustion is an understatement. Understandably, caretaking of him was the last thing on my mind. Making sure that kids are all right and I’m resting we’re my priorities. I even snapped back at him, when he began to lecture me at the airport. I just checked out and didn’t engage. When we got home, I ate, asked my dad to help me put the kids to sleep and went to bed. No asking uBPDh about his state of being, not inviting him to come with me. He has been telling me that he is moving out of our joint bedroom for three weeks now, and how he wants me to buy him a bedroom set of the basement. It appalled me, disgusted me and wanted to lash out. I didn’t. Instead, I said “I don’t want you to sleep separately/I don’t want to see you go”. His reply was “it isn’t an option”.
Well, to my surprise he came to bed shortly, crawled into bed with me, wanted immediate sexual intimacy?. What?. I could not square the things in my mind. While having sex (sorry tmi) he started saying “I want you to get a regular girlfriend/ I want you to be sexual with another woman/ don’t you want me to be sexually attracted to you?. I said “my marriage is between you, I and G-d, there will never be another person involved in it”. I’ve been saying this for the past 17 years, why does he still keep on pushing my boundary. I find it sad, that the only way he can get excited, is by seeing me with another woman. I’m not judging his sexuality, or preferences, but as my therapist said to me, most of her clients with BPD and in active quest of seeking this “full excitement, through sexuality”. When he was done, he started speaking of separate sleeping arrangements, and how he will “still come to have sex with me once in a while”. Wow, I can’t consolidate this is my brain, or emotionally. I feel stuck.
Do I move on from him, do I wait on him to snap back, will it ever happen? Today, the least of all days did I imagine him want to be intimate. Then poof. Then this weird request at threesome. Then this separation from me physically, through moving out of the bedroom.
Can someone help me make sense please?

[Cat Familiar]

How are you doing, Snowglobe, now that you’ve been back home for a few days?

That had to be painful to hear that he wants a threesome. It’s good that you have a therapist to confirm that this is about him, and BPD.

Still it leaves you wondering what’s going to happen next.

[Notwendy]

Do I move on from him, do I wait on him to snap back, will it ever happen?

This is a big question and one only you can answer, from the depth of yourself. You have just returned from a long trip and are exhausted. It would be good to spend some time alone with your thoughts and think about this when you are rested.

I think one next good step is to get to a CODA meeting, work with a sponsor and address your fears.

[formflier]

What if you "moved on" from him and his behaviors now, yet left the door open that he could be around you when behavior "more properly".  When he does otherwise... .you move on.

After a while... he might figure out that "his behavior" affects how much of you he gets. 

Either way... .you "win"... .right?

FF

[Notwendy]

He says a lot of things- and they trigger your fears, but does he act on them?

For one, he is still married to you despite threatening that he doesn't want to be.

Perhaps one step is to let him be responsible for carrying out his statements:

he wants me to buy him a bedroom set of the basement.  He can buy his own bedroom set. You can say " honey this is not what I would choose but I know you are able to get your own bedroom set".

When he says " get a girlfriend" you have to fall back on your own wishes. You can not control him, but you can control you. You don't have to buy a bedroom set, you don't have to find a girlfriend if you don't want one.

I understand the importance of taking care of ourselves, staying healthy, but we can't control someone's attraction to us. That's on them. Twisting yourself into something you think he'd like is a moving target if he gets bored easily. No problem with game playing or spicing things up if both people consent, but you can't control his feeling of attraction. If you don't want a third person in your bedroom, then don't bring one in.

We also can't control getting older. It happens. There is more to a relationship than what is on the outside. I can do all I can to stay in shape and be groomed, dressed neatly,  but I don't look like a teen ager. If someone wants a teen ager ,they will not be attracted to me. This is not my fault- I can only be who I am. You are who you are, and your husband's threats don't change that. I know you are scared when he says these things, but I hope you can realize that this is his issue, not yours, if he says he doesn't feel attracted to you.

It's fearful to hand some of his choices over to him to solve. He might want a third person- then he's responsible to find agreeable people and for his choice to do so. I'd bet that's a lot more difficult for him than to have you do it for him. Scary, but you don't have to fulfill his every craving if it violates your personal boundaries.

[snowglobe]

Hello all,
This will be a quick reply, as he is all over me and my time, now that we are back, the strangest thing happened, and it’s important that I adress it. Not Wendy, Ff,  Cat- the folllowibg day after the incident with the threesome, I woke up in a hot embrace, something he hasn’t done in months. He didn’t move out, buy himself a bedroom set, or find a girlfriend. Just to clearing- a third person is  a hard limit for me, enough to walk, so any suggestions, requests or demands are falling on deaf ear. If he chooses to do this on his own, I can’t change it. Fidelity is a part of my spiritual values, one I won’t sacrifice for anyone

[snowglobe]

Continuation of the previous reply:
For the following few days he was on his good behaviour (to add, so you can get my “normal days” better). He was calling me from work with nominal requests, when I forgot something, he was replying “isn’t a big deal”, which is completely out of character for uBPDh, every minor thing is a cause for a meltdown and drama, we were intimate three days in a row (also new normal), he was semi sober (adderral), he started working out, which is huge, as he last worked out two years ago when he started his last business. We went out to see friends, he went grocery shopping and dropped off and picked up kids, walked youngest s to school in the morning, woke up very early (also unheard of), I was falling into a rabbit hole from happiness. I want yelled at,, ridiculed, humiliated or belittled for the whole 2 days. It all came crushing and burning this morning when the crypto currency took a nose dive. He started with cussing under his breath, escalated to insults and yelling at a minor thing in a car, said that “I can’t do this anymore, I want to live alone, I’m a loner (far from truth), refused to eat (probably stimulants) and then said “I want to sleep alone tonight, can you make it happen?” I didn’t acknowledge or reply to this nonsense, as there isn’t any “winning answer”. He still went to pick up d15 from extracurricular, I guess, when he comes back, he will continue his prosecution quest

[snowglobe]

How are you doing, Snowglobe, now that you’ve been back home for a few days?

That had to be painful to hear that he wants a threesome. It’s good that you have a therapist to confirm that this is about him, and BPD.

Still it leaves you wondering what’s going to happen next.

Cat, this isn’t something I have not heard before. He usually opens the subject when he is under influence, I guess he is too depressed and needs a mental picture in his head. In any regard, I don’t entertain the idea. I’m certain of my sexual orientation, and won’t sleep with women, or other men for that matter to help him with his experiments.

[snowglobe]

Do I move on from him, do I wait on him to snap back, will it ever happen?

This is a big question and one only you can answer, from the depth of yourself. You have just returned from a long trip and are exhausted. It would be good to spend some time alone with your thoughts and think about this when you are rested.

I think one next good step is to get to a CODA meeting, work with a sponsor and address your fears.

Wendy,
ThAnk you for the sound advice. I’m fresh out of surgery, tired, exhausted emotionally and jet lagged. This isn’t a good time to consider anything. Instead I started the self care routine and will return to school tomorrow toward my degree. Furthermore, next Wednesday, I pledge to you all to go to the meeting. I’m fearful of my own discoveries, and think it will help if I were held accountable on this forum platform.

[snowglobe]

What if you "moved on" from him and his behaviors now, yet left the door open that he could be around you when behavior "more properly".  When he does otherwise... .you move on.

After a while... he might figure out that "his behavior" affects how much of you he gets. 

Either way... .you "win"... .right?

FF

That is the theoretical plan for now, as you can probably tell, with ptsd, I sometimes get high jacked into acting impulsively, when the situation presented teleports me into my earlier traumas.
Side note (believe me you, I do lack this rather simple skills and general emotional intelligence knowledge) how do I move on while he is misbehaving? Do I ignore him all together, or simply disengage? Should I keep a room away from him until he settles down?
He is starting with this whole “ I want to sleep alone thing” again. I am thinking of this reply:
“I feel sad that you want to sleep separate from me. It’s evident that you feel out of control and out of your depth with the fluctuations of the crypto market. But the truth is, the I can’t make you do anything you don’t want to, do what you think will make you feel better” (is it good)?

[snowglobe]

Finally;
I just received a grade for my fall course that you remember I took while uBPDh was severely disregulated snd I was commuting. It was a stats course, and my third attempt, as I dropped it two times before, because of uBPDh severe splitting.
I not only passed, I got an “A”. To say that I’m gleaming with pride, surprise and satisfaction is an understatement.
I want to take a moment to thank you guys for being here. From the depth of my emotional despair I was able to reach you, and have you hold me emotionally at the times when I was at my lowest point. The only thing that kept me going, were my children and the fact that this small group would understand my struggles, and give me an opinion, advice, or just mirror my pain. This small step forward gives me hope. If I was able to do this while he was threatening the entire genoside of the group I belong to, to leave me broken and penniless, to threaten to take away everything I hold dear, I persevered. I could not do this alone. When I didn’t have this safe heaven, I stopped and dropped the subject absolutely mandatory for my degree. To all of you, huge gratitude and humble thank you

[Cat Familiar]

Snowglobe, that is awesome that you got an A while in the midst of all that difficulty. And not an easy course either!   

That should boost your self confidence in a very powerful way!

To answer your previous question about when your husband is misbehaving, why not say something like, “I’m uncomfortable with what you are saying/doing and I’m going to spend some time alone. I’ll see you tomorrow and we can talk then.”

If this doesn’t feel comfortable to you, why don’t you practice a way with us to disengage?

I think your reply about him wanting to sleep alone might be good, but you also might be making an assumption that it’s related to his investments and his anxieties about them. You certainly may be correct, but he might not want to acknowledge that.

Perhaps if you said, “I’m sad that you want to sleep apart from me. But I understand that’s what you want to do.”

That way you are not making assumptions even if you are quite sure that it’s some way related to his investments.

[formflier]

Solid work on your grade!

He is starting with this whole “ I want to sleep alone thing” again. I am thinking of this reply:
“I feel sad that you want to sleep separate from me. It’s evident that you feel out of control and out of your depth with the fluctuations of the crypto market. But the truth is, the I can’t make you do anything you don’t want to, do what you think will make you feel better” (is it good)?

Way too many words.  There is a "speech" or lesson in there that you are trying to teach him.  Trust me, it's not going to be heard when he is making vague threats.

Much better to be succinct. 

I support you caring for yourself...   is a good message.  No details... .just support.

or... leave door open.

"I'm ready to listen more whenever you want to talk more...


FF

[snowglobe]

I’m not proud to say I could’ve handled last night better. Jet lag, exhaustion and burn out of empathy made me short tempered and invalidating. I snapped. We were sitting on a couch together, he started asking if he could sleep alone, how he wants his own bedroom, I was quiet, then he started asking “so, can I?”. As he always talks after the fact this was some kind of test, I’m so sick of his tests. So I just snapped: “ Do you know what I do with nonsense?. I just ignore it. I’m going to sleep in s11’s bedroom”. In reality, his disregulation caused him to wake up at 5 am daily, leaving me with the list of chores, I wanted solid uninterrupted sleep. So I took his offer of sleeping alone, and left to sleep. In that moment, leaving our bedroom seemed like a good idea. After all, if I leave because he asked me to, this should not feel like abandonment for him, right? I need him to understand that his words, threats and ultimatums have consequences.

[Notwendy]

I actually think that was a brave move on your part. Before, you would react through your triggered fears and beg him to sleep with you. While you recognize his fear of abandonment, you also react through your own fears of him being angry and leaving you. It makes sense- you were abandoned by your father as a young girl and that is scary and it hurts. It's scary and hurtful when your H threatens abandonment too, but you aren't a little girl, you are an adult. It would be a difficult thing if he did carry out his threats, but you are capable of dealing with it. What has held you back from not begging when he threatens to sleep alone was your fear. This time, you didn't give in to it.

This is a victory on your part. Not a victory of you vs your H, but you managing your fears and you did something different this time. It didn't have to be a perfect way of handling things. When we learn a new skill, we don't always do it perfectly the first time. Do you play a concerto the first time you learn piano? No, but after practicing and learning- yes.

Congratulations on the "A". If I could make a suggestion, I would not share this with your H and if you already did, I would down play it. This is your achievement. IMHO, with his sense of insecurity, and his need to put you down, and his financial investments not doing well- and his way of making things about him- he will perceive your accomplishment as a threat. From what I have read - he doesn't like for you to feel good about yourself- he puts you down- in order to boost his own self confidence. This isn't about you. People with poor self esteem do this. You can enjoy your "A". Do something special for yourself- doesn't have to be costly. Go for a nice walk in the park, get your favorite special coffee drink, buy a book- reward your inner child for that "A".

I am glad you are going to go to the group. Working with a sponsor will help you deal with your fears. It's a part of the 12 steps and it is helpful to have a one on one person to help you work on this, and also to call and talk you through them when they come up or are triggered. You recognized when you are prone to fall into "automatic" the hijack you wrote. I sometimes get high jacked into acting impulsively, when the situation presented teleports me into my earlier trauma

This is not external to you. Written this way: I sometimes react automatically when my fears are triggered.   shows what is causing this. Recognizing this is a great first step. I did this too- seemed to go into caretaking mode without even realizing it- it felt like I was in a trance doing it. It wasn't my H doing this to me, it was my own issues from my FOO being triggered- fear of my mother's rages influenced my fear of my H's. Getting to that fear with a counselor and sponsor and being aware of when I was on "automatic" was helpful.

Your H's threats work because they trigger your fears, but he doesn't seem to follow through on many of them. Also, you see the cycle- when he's feeling better he is nicer to you and to himself when he is feeling poorly about himself he acts punitive to you and to himself. This is about him. Dealing with your fears will help you keep your own self image stable while his wavers.

I also commend you for holding on to your values. The suggestion of a threesome reached you at your core- you do not want to sleep with someone else and you did not deny this to please him.

Sleeping in another room for a night or two is not the end of the world or your relationship. It's not that big a deal in the long run. If your H wants to sleep alone- well he can, and so can you.

[Enabler]

Would you be able to zone out a little when he makes his requests and think "what do I want to do re sleep tonight?", "do I fancy sex tonight?"... .then act on that basis rather than give him the control he hasn't earnt. Sounds like you did this last night.

What happens if he decree's "I would like you back in bed tonight", what will you say? (assuming nothing else has changed and he hasn't respected you up to that point). Taking back control of the things that are not reasonable for him to have control of is a great step. Maybe one day you decamp... .maybe one day you don't. What has he done to deserve you being a planet orbiting around him?

[snowglobe]

I actually think that was a brave move on your part. Before, you would react through your triggered fears and beg him to sleep with you. While you recognize his fear of abandonment, you also react through your own fears of him being angry and leaving you. It makes sense- you were abandoned by your father as a young girl and that is scary and it hurts. It's scary and hurtful when your H threatens abandonment too, but you aren't a little girl, you are an adult. It would be a difficult thing if he did carry out his threats, but you are capable of dealing with it. What has held you back from not begging when he threatens to sleep alone was your fear. This time, you didn't give in to it.

This is a victory on your part. Not a victory of you vs your H, but you managing your fears and you did something different this time. It didn't have to be a perfect way of handling things. When we learn a new skill, we don't always do it perfectly the first time. Do you play a concerto the first time you learn piano? No, but after practicing and learning- yes.

Congratulations on the "A". If I could make a suggestion, I would not share this with your H and if you already did, I would down play it. This is your achievement. IMHO, with his sense of insecurity, and his need to put you down, and his financial investments not doing well- and his way of making things about him- he will perceive your accomplishment as a threat. From what I have read - he doesn't like for you to feel good about yourself- he puts you down- in order to boost his own self confidence. This isn't about you. People with poor self esteem do this. You can enjoy your "A". Do something special for yourself- doesn't have to be costly. Go for a nice walk in the park, get your favorite special coffee drink, buy a book- reward your inner child for that "A".

I am glad you are going to go to the group. Working with a sponsor will help you deal with your fears. It's a part of the 12 steps and it is helpful to have a one on one person to help you work on this, and also to call and talk you through them when they come up or are triggered. You recognized when you are prone to fall into "automatic" the hijack you wrote. I sometimes get high jacked into acting impulsively, when the situation presented teleports me into my earlier trauma

This is not external to you. Written this way: I sometimes react automatically when my fears are triggered.   shows what is causing this. Recognizing this is a great first step. I did this too- seemed to go into caretaking mode without even realizing it- it felt like I was in a trance doing it. It wasn't my H doing this to me, it was my own issues from my FOO being triggered- fear of my mother's rages influenced my fear of my H's. Getting to that fear with a counselor and sponsor and being aware of when I was on "automatic" was helpful.

Your H's threats work because they trigger your fears, but he doesn't seem to follow through on many of them. Also, you see the cycle- when he's feeling better he is nicer to you and to himself when he is feeling poorly about himself he acts punitive to you and to himself. This is about him. Dealing with your fears will help you keep your own self image stable while his wavers.

I also commend you for holding on to your values. The suggestion of a threesome reached you at your core- you do not want to sleep with someone else and you did not deny this to please him.

Sleeping in another room for a night or two is not the end of the world or your relationship. It's not that big a deal in the long run. If your H wants to sleep alone- well he can, and so can you.

NotWendy,
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
I was just so fed up with this sea saw, that sleeping alone was a more attractive idea. I was pleasant when he came down, even in a more foul mood then last night. I asked him if he slept well, and if he woke up. He was  Snappy “why do you care?”, also when asked what time he was leaving for work, because of the logistics now, that we only have one car, he replied “I don’t give a bleep”. Clearly, whatever he was trying to achieve last night (separate sleeping arrangements) didn’t bring him any solace or a peace of mind. I did share a mark with him, as we laid in the bed and I was checking for grades. I didn’t make a big deal out of it, and as you correctly pointed out, he doesn’t like me feeling accomplished, proud or confident. So I just let it go. I do too think that sleeping apart, and letting him sleep in our bedroom is a better solution for everyone. I’m not participating in setting him with a separate sleeping quitters, it will cost time, money, and trigger my fears and traumas. If he chooses to do it, it’s on him. I also won’t bend my values in terms of my personal life to please him. He had pushed me to the limit, and now I’m fully realizing what I have been missing and sacrificing to stay with him. I’ve been too scared to grow, as I know well. My personal growth won’t be welcomed, encouraged or fostered. On a contrary, I would be put down, ridiculed and criticized. So I remained in this static state. Trying to do everything possible for him to love me. And then boom, I recognize the feeling. It’s familiar, and familiar can be comforting. I tried to make my dad to love me, and see me for “him”, as I thought I was very much like him. Yet, all he could see, was my uBPD mother he resented so much. I tend to do the same. I try to mild myself to resemble my uBPDh, for him to accept me. But I’m not him, I’m me, and frankly, this being home is giving me courage and strength to just be me. Regardless of what uBPDh will choose to do.

[snowglobe]

Would you be able to zone out a little when he makes his requests and think "what do I want to do re sleep tonight?", "do I fancy sex tonight?"... .then act on that basis rather than give him the control he hasn't earnt. Sounds like you did this last night.
What happens if he decree's "I would like you back in bed tonight", what will you say? (assuming nothing else has changed and he hasn't respected you up to that point). Taking back control of the things that are not reasonable for him to have control of is a great step. Maybe one day you decamp... .maybe one day you don't. What has he done to deserve you being a planet orbiting around him?

I would consider what I want, if he were to ask. In fairness, he had never asked me to come back, or apologized for the wrong doing. I’m not even letting my mind run in that direction. I do feel that me leaving him was the best decision for me, last night. It eliminated further conversation of him wanting his own bedroom, he is now in a possession of it.
He was just “kind” and “there”, when I was 17 years old. He was a surrogate parent I so much needed. My whole life revolves around him, as you correctly pointed out. When he is “fine”, I don’t mind it at all, as caregiving is in my nature. When he is nasty, dismissive and dysregulated i find it burdensome. I need to think on this some more, ideally, I would like to be that planet only when he is giving back, not when he is dysregulayed

[Notwendy]

I tried to make my dad to love me, and see me for “him”, as I thought I was very much like him. Yet, all he could see, was my uBPD mother he resented so much. I tend to do the same. I try to mild myself to resemble my uBPDh, for him to accept me. But I’m not him, I’m me, and frankly, this being home is giving me courage and strength to just be me. Regardless of what uBPDh will choose to do.


This is a profound statement.

My father didn't leave the family and he was at times, a loving father. I know he was doing the best he could with a difficult situation. I am my BPD mother's "black child" and as I got older, this set me up on the drama triangle with them. If I upset her in any way, his expected role was to rescue her ( victim) from me ( prosecutor). I wanted his approval so I learned to people please, walk on eggshells, and not stand up for myself to her in order to gain approval and attention from my father. I wanted him to love me for me - to see me for who I was, but I had to not be myself in order to be loved.

Doing this since I was a child made this behavior automatic for me and taking it into my marriage created issues, but awareness of this allowed me to make changes for myself. I hope you can believe that your father's actions had nothing to do with you. You were a lovable child just the way you are. You were created to be who you are - not what you think others want you to be.

It's your fears and trauma that are triggered by your H's behavior. That's good news because you can change what belongs to you. Yes he has difficult behaviors but when you perceive this as him doing this to you, you perceive yourself as powerless. When you perceive this as him triggering your fears- you now have power to examine those fears so that feeling triggered has less effect on you. Yes, it would be triggering if he buys a bedroom set and moves in the basement, but still, you could learn to manage your fears and not react automatically when he threatens to do it.

[Enabler]

Choosing to care-giving or support someone is nothing to be sniffed at. It's probably more valuable when your husband is capable of earning such vast amounts of money. I earn good money (not in his league) but it requires long hours and a decent amount of stress. My W's efforts at home are imperative to me being able to sustain this for the family. I did not ask her to do it, nor assume that she should adopt this role... .she chose to do it. Which is why it is so frustrating when she doesn't see it as anything necessary to maintain... .she sold me the concept of being my support then changed the spec when it came to completing the tasks. Choosing to be his support is an honorable choice... .but this is your choice.

"I would consider what I want, if he were to ask" (Snowglobe)

Why not consider what you want when he doesn't ask. Treat what he demands as just one of the inputs into your decision making process. If you're on business with him supporting him as his PA... .fine, you do as he asks (from a business perspective). Where you sleep and how you sleep and whether you open your legs for him isn't for him to decide. I feel it would be wise for you to sit down and determine a list of my stuff... .his stuff... .our stuff. Work out where your proverbial garden fence is, it sounds like you have no idea where you end and he begins, and you know he has no clue where he ends and where you begin. Last night sleeping out of your own bed worked for you... .tonight it may not and it's totally fine for you to say "That doesn't work for me, if you need to be on your own, that's totally cool with me, I respect your need for space"... .

It doesn't need to be mean, it doesn't need to be aggressive, it certainly doesn't need to be passive aggressive... .it just is.

Enabler