Wants sex but no relationship

[Zemmma]

Well he came back into contact after 6 months of silence and it was a bit confusing at first. Mostly because I usually only hear the parts I want to hear. And he is usually all over the place.

But after some time I realize his message has been consistent this time. He does not want a relationship with me. But he wouldn't mind an exclusive sexual relationship with me. But only on his terms. When he wants it. So if we have had an intimate time, he will try to distance himself for a while, because it feels too much like a relationship.

He wants sex but no talking. Pretty much. Because every conversation we have seems to make him disagree with me and then ultimately feel anger. Things that shouldn't even concern him.

And not is he not wanting a relationship with me, but he said he doesn't want one with anyone, and maybe never again. He has been through hell in relationship and doesn't "have that need anymore."

Then he painted himself like the victim and said our relationship never worked for him. Relationships are too much bull$%^ and not worth the trade for being alone and free. He is happier on his own. Doesn't need a confidante, etc.

He is no longer sending mixed messages, and it is all starting to sink in. This feels new and different. It's like he can take me or leave me. If I want I can have sex with him from time to time, but he is so closed off emotionally. He acts sort of normal, but avoids any personal or intimate talk, which is so weird since we have been in an intense relationship for years.

He doesn't want anyone to know we are seeing each other. He says it is just sex and he will always love our sex, and our space together and while he is in that space he will always give me all the love he has and all of him. But outside of that... nothing. He "can't" do us together anymore.

This understanding has taken all of the magic out of it for me. I always thought he loved me on some level and that he just couldn't be with me for whatever reason related to his inner turmoil, etc. But this whole idea of "don't talk, just have sex with me," is off-putting. And can't he just get that anywhere? Why do that with someone who is in love with you? I guess I am easily available. And of course, our sexual connection was always our best.

Has anyone ever had someone that is able to completely turn off their feelings following a relationship? And what about this idea that he never wants to be in a relationship again? Seems so odd considering he was always pushing me for more commitment (yet also always running away). Any insights into how this fits into BPD knowledge would be helpful. This is a man in his mid-40's with a child and a marriage previous to our 6 year on and off relationship.

I haven't seen him now for 2 weeks and stopped responding to his texts which he stopped on Saturday. I told him I want love and he said he can't give that to me in a "together" way. I don't think continuing anything with him at this point will help me feel better. It sucks to be rejected and alone, but I don't want to just be the booty call. How can he even do that when he was once so invested?

[crushedagain]

Has anyone ever had someone that is able to completely turn off their feelings following a relationship?

I'm sure my ex did. Otherwise, how could you just up and leave and throw two years away? These peoples' emotions can turn on a dime - like a lightswitch.

Reading through your post, it's completely selfish behavior where the BPD person's needs are all that matter. They don't care about the other party. Notice how he hasn't asked how you're feeling, if the arrangement would work for you, your thoughts, etc.? That's because it's his way or the highway, much in the same way my ex left. I had no input. It's not a partnership with these people, it's a toxic brew and dictatorship.

[Cat Familiar]

He’s looking for a sexual relationship with no strings while you want a real relationship.

It sounds like you have very incompatible wants and needs.

[Luan]

I'm sure my ex did. Otherwise, how could you just up and leave and throw two years away? These peoples' emotions can turn on a dime - like a lightswitch.

Reading through your post, it's completely selfish behavior where the BPD person's needs are all that matter. They don't care about the other party. Notice how he hasn't asked how you're feeling, if the arrangement would work for you, your thoughts, etc.? That's because it's his way or the highway, much in the same way my ex left. I had no input. It's not a partnership with these people, it's a toxic brew and dictatorship.

I'm sure my ex did too. This is their genuine experience, to switch off when things get too real. And that is a good point crushed again, I do not recall my ex asking me once how I felt, what my needs were, during or after the relationship. I remember early on getting questions about what my ideal relationship would be, but that was all about her vetting me.

Zemmma, do you think there is sincerity in what is being offered? I hear that you are not interested, but I'm curious to know if a person with BPD could even maintain such a situation given their proclivity to change their mind.

[Zemmma]

Thanks for responding everyone,

Luan: I think there is "sincerity" in whatever comes out of his mouth, in that particular moment. But as many of you have suggested, he can change on a dime, in how he is feeling. Right now he is not sincerely offering anything but this need and want for sex (no talking and nothing more). But that is because I was claiming my undying love. If I pull away, he might get a little more romantic. It's a dance and its a sick game. I've noticed that he is doing something online to try to get my attention now that I have gone silent. He wants me to reach out right now because he has painted himself into a corner.

I decided that him telling me that he is not looking for a relationship right now, and maybe never, is just a further manipulation to serve his want for sex. He probably thinks this will make me think he is having sex exclusively with me, which will be more likely to keep me agreeable to this situation, and also give him an excuse to continue to request sex without protection.

Right now I am out but here I am on this board talking about him. So getting to my goal of "meh" when it comes to him is still something I need to work on.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Zemma,

To continue would be to erode your self-esteem, so I say it's time to move on. 

LuckyJim

[chronsweet]

It sounds like he is telling you what he wants.  It doesn't really matter as to his 'why'.  What matters is what you want and need.

Many people are able to do this to people because they don't have any empathy for others feelings.  I would call that a narcissist to the nth degree.

[Fian]

He has stated what he wants.  Now it is time to state what you want, which is "I am not interested in a relationship that is only about sex."

In a primitive level, this is how women elevate men.  Men can easily focus on just the sex, while women show them that they actually need a lot more.  They may not even realize they need a relationship, but in truth they do.

[zachira]

It is not uncommon for a narcissistic man to be in a relationship, then break it off, and then want to return under the condition that it is only a sexual relationship. You can do better. There are plenty of kind caring men out there. Look for someone who cares about you and your feelings.

[AskingWhy]

He’s looking for a sexual relationship with no strings while you want a real relationship.

It sounds like you have very incompatible wants and needs.

Zemmma, you don't want to put yourself into a place where you are a man's free sexual outlet or inflatable rubber doll.  In other words, don't allow yourself to be used.

Many BPDs also have elements of NPD (one of the strange thing is that they can, at different time, exhibit aspects of the other PDs, including APD and NPD.)

To ask a woman to be a sex partner with no strings attached is narcissistic.

As you have let him in after no contact, you have opened the door for your partner to attempt to renegotiate the R/S. You are in a position to stand your ground on wanting a R/S and insist on what is not negotiable.

[Vincenta]

Hi Zemmma,

I have followed your story for a while here and am so sorry that you are experiencing this.
 

I think Askingwhy has raised some very good points.

How are you doing? Have you been in contact with him since Sat?

[Vincenta]

Re-read the previous comments and just wanted to add this as a side note (and nothing to do with your situation, Zemmma):

Some women are also narcissistic or BPD  and use sex for 'power' etc purposes;  this is not at all gender related.

And some (non-PD) women just might enjoy sex without any need of deeper attachment, just like some men might do - and this should be totally ok, too , if two adults have a mutual agreement.

 We are all firstly humans (and naturally also an outcome of our upbringing, society, culture and beliefs).   



 

[Zemmma]

I totally agree that a sex only relationship is fine if both people are consensual. I considered this.

I actually don't want marriage or cohabitation- so I am also looking for something non-traditional. And the sex between us is divine, good exercise in all the right places, etc.

So I don't fault him for wanting that or asking. (I do fault him for so many things, and the ways he has treated me, and his carelessness, etc... .)

But I do recognize that because I was in a relationship with him, and a VERY  intense love and emotional r/s... I can't just do the sex with him. It's not enough. The way he is acting with me is more harmful than healing. After being in a love r/s with him, this feels like a loss. He feels absent, and withholding and hidden, and that hurts.

So, for now I won't.

I know he has great power with me, but at this point he would have to actually give something to make me want to engage. I need some of the emotional support. And definitely sharing and talking...

He has not been a smart business man here. If he wanted sex, he should have thought about what was in the transaction for me. He's given me nothing to hang my fantasy on... This feels empty. The way he is acting now makes it easier to turn away.

[Zemmma]

And Vincenta: I haven't seen him for two weeks. And I haven't spoken to him at all since he was clear about what he wants (sex) and what he "can't" do (the rest).

He has minimally reached out (Sunday) but no great effort and nothing remotely requiring a response, so I ignored it.

I'm okay for now. Would be nice to find someone who I felt this attracted to that wasn't so difficult to deal with. It's been 9 months since the actual break up (the latest). I should probably find a way to date again.

[zachira]

Sounds like you are doing better and accepting that the relationship is over though it is painful because you were really attracted to him. You do not want to attract another boyfriend like this one, and want someone that is going to treat you right this time. Unfortunately what happens quite frequently when we start to date too soon after a painful break-up is we end up with a boyfriend who  may appear to be different than the last one, yet ends up being similar to the last one in the worst of ways. Many men say they want a long term relationship to get the sex they want. I started reading all kinds of books on relationships after I was so tired of always attracting the wrong kind of people into my life. I realized there were some things about me that made me a target for the wrong kind of men, and that the really nice men were not interested in me. The best book of the many I read was: "Attached" by Heller and Levine. There are some reviews of this book on this site in the book section and many reviews on Amazon.com.

[Zemmma]

Thanks zachira,
To be honest, I have never attracted or known anyone like him. My ex-h was nothing like this. A bf I had for 9 months during a break up with this man was nothing like either of them. I don't have a habit of attracting a "type" of man. I'd just be happy to find anyone that I am this interested in again. Emotionally and physically. I would take a chance on anyone I could feel this intensity for. And there is no way anyone could put me through the ringer as this one did! This was insane. And it was still worth it. But now he is gone in the ways that I wanted, so I have to accept it is over.

I am not in need of a father for my children, a breadwinner, a husband, or a housemate. I just want a lover who will be there for me (emotionally) and communicate with me, and have fun with me or be there to console me (and visa versa) when life is tough. A person I can count on and anticipate when we are apart. I want to be in love again.

I don't have to be super careful in my choice, because I am not going to move in with a man. I have good boundaries. He won't have any power to destroy my life, my home or my family because my home is for me and my teenage children. Our safe space. He can visit, but he's not moving in. I don't believe cohabitation can stay sexy forever and I'm not doing all of that again. That's where I am at. I want a lover and confidante. And in the end we both have our own places so we never have to become a domestic unit. I lived with my ex for decades and don't choice to do that again.That is my preference.

But I have plenty of time and love to give. I am generous and optimistic and my default is contentment.

I am not so much worried about falling in love with the wrong man. I just want to fall in love again with any man. My fear is that I won't.

[Sandb2015]

 I hear you and it’s good your leaving little to chance regarding how you want to live.

You’ll love again and be loved.

[Lucky Jim]

That's where I am at. I want a lover and confidante.

Hey Zemma, That sounds "do-able" to me, so keep going on your new path.

LJ

[formflier]

  I want to be in love again.

  I have good boundaries.

  My fear is that I won't.

I'm with Lucky Jim.  Your desires sound doable.  That's a path worthy of walking.

I would encourage you to reflect a bit about the three things I've highlighted here.

Which of those seems to be most powerful in your life?

FF

[Zemmma]

The most powerful is the love., Formflier.

I don't want to be alone. I like having someone special in my life. When I have love, it is what I value most in my days.

Yes, it trumps my fear and doubt.

I just need to be a little more proactive, I guess. And stop letting this man tinker with me. I really don't think I'll be able to resist his advances until I find another place to put this interest/ desire/ passion, etc.

[formflier]

I just need to be a little more proactive

That sounds like a plan... .want to tell us more about it?

FF

[Zemmma]

ugh... .online dating I guess...

how else do people meet anymore?

I have to go outside of my circle. If there is a man for me out there, I don't know him yet.

[Vincenta]

Hi dear Zemmma,

I can relate to you very well, and probably we all would like to have someone special in our lives, and also to be loved in return, don't you think... .?

You seem to be still attached to your ex, and perhaps it will be then very difficult not to compare between a new potential candidate to your (still probably 'exiting', although disordered) ex.
Dating might make you even sadder (and you already have been through a lot, Zemmma) and in addition, would not be very fair to the new potential bf, either.

Besides a romantic love affair, is there anything else that could bring you  true joy and happiness, for the next coming months? E.g. a trip with your kids and/or a friend - or alone?  New hobby perhaps?  Based on your posts here, you seem to be a creative person, and a good writer, too.

Do you have dreams, just for you and yourself? 

You mentioned that you should go outside of your circles... .How about attending e.g. charity societies, cultural societies... .of your choice?
Might give you also joy and satisfaction - and also a good way to meet new & interesting people.     
 
Am not saying that you should not be dating, but perhaps the expectations should be kept very low, both because of you and the dating buddy/buddies.
     

[AskingWhy]

ugh... .online dating I guess...

how else do people meet anymore?

I have to go outside of my circle. If there is a man for me out there, I don't know him yet.

My experience is that when one works on oneself, one's confidence and happiness in oneself is a magnet for the other sex.  If I were to divorce my uBPD H, and that is always a possibility, I would not go hunting for the next husband. 

Instead, I would pursue activities and hobbies I enjoy most, or maybe volunteer for a cause.  It appears you "need" to be in a R/S with a man in order to feel whole. 

I know this from all my years of dating and current marriage.  When I married H more than 20 years ago, I "wanted and needed a H" to feel complete.  I overlooked a lot of red flags while we were dating, and it was the typical quick courtship of a borderline.  I was love bombed and married before I really knew what was going on. There were the periods of rages that were out of proportion to the issue at hand.  Then I really saw how he was with all of his young children, all under 10 at the time.  H's X W had custody (uNPD) and when it was visitation time, I ceased to exist for him.  I could be in the same room with the the children, and I did not exist to my own H.   My H split me and his children that much.  It was like, "Um, hello?  Remember me?  The white dress?  The rings?  The church and the priest?  Hello?"

You will attract the right partner when the time is right.  What kind of sports or hobbies do you enjoy?  It seems like dating sites and bars smack of desperation of people looking for love/sex/companionship specifically.

That is just my opinion.


I have now healed myself to where I don't need a R/S.  There is a difference.   

[truthbeknown]

I know a man (business contact) that shared with me that he was in a relationship with a woman for 5 years until he left her for his current wife.  I believe they call it "place holding" nowadays.  He told her that he didn't want a relationship and she stayed with him for 5 years for sex and hoping (I guess) that if she gave him sex that he would learn to love her.  It didn't happen- he used her and then when he found someone in church that he thought was better he dumped her and married the new gal (so much for not wanting a relationship?).    I thought I would share this because some people can have emotionless sex and there's a great site called "E &P in relationships" where they have a test one can take to see what type they are.  There are videos as well that explain.

I met my current gf in a relationship group.   The upside is that she is lovely when she is balanced, and desires to have a relationship.  The downside is she seems to have some BPD traits or high functioning but sometimes it kicks in.  I had a relationship with an "e" before like your ex or guy and now i'm with a "p".  Still some challenges.  I'll see where things go.  Just wanted to share.  Good luck.

[Zemmma]

Thanks for responding, and sorry , I disappeared from here for a while.

I don't NEED a relationship. But it is my greatest desire. I value a loving relationship over all other things. And I have been waiting to have this for 7 years. Being alone is not exciting. It is lonely and boring. I miss my social life with this man and our friends that I no longer see because they were his first. I lost so many when my marriage failed and then I built a life around him. I became apart of his community and it became mine. Then he took that from me because that's how breakups work.

I am tired of being single on holidays and vacation, and basically everywhere I go. Time apart and working on myself does not help. I couldn't possibly do anything more. I work several different jobs, helping people, I own a company, go to grad school.

Men are attracted to me. I just can't seem to fall for them. I have only fell in love 2x in my life. I like people I meet, find them fun and interesting. I just don't feel that chemistry the way I do for this BPD x. I do not want to be intimate with them or start a relationship. I have been apart from him for a year (again), but yes he keeps dipping in. And place holding is probably exactly what it is. He finally told me he "doesn't have that feeling anymore," and told me to stop "imagining that he feels things that he does not." That is finally hitting home. He would never say that before. I always thought he loved me underneath it all, but actions speak loudly. When he is with me he appears to be utterly gushing with love. But it doesn't last and then he tries to limit it and disappear until the next time. He is unkind when he breaks from me. Careless.

I have been alone a lot since my divorce seven years ago and trust me being alone does not fix this. Time does not fix this. Hobbies do not fix this. I am completely self-confident, successful, physically fit and stable. But my heart is broken and I feel I am missing out on life when I am nobody's number one.

[Cat Familiar]

Of course you want to be someone’s number one. And it’s really difficult to lose your connections to a social group when a relationship ends.

What about him is so attractive to you that makes other men seem so uninteresting?

[Harri]

This thread reached the post limit and has been locked and split.  Part 2 is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=335806.0