Even from RTC she's able to break my heart

[Parents! Get help here!]

DD17 called from RTC. First she told me that she'd had a phone call with her dad that had gone well (this is not the norm, but I was happy to hear this). Then she told me about her friend she'd met there with the same issues who told her that she was starting to get negative again because "she's just done and wants to go home". So she told her therapist this and her therapist asked her to write down some things she wanted to accomplish before she left. She listed a few like becoming more independent. I said what about relationships with friends. Don't you want to figure out what happens that you have really close friends and then you don't? She said I guess, but I'd like to just not rely on anyone. I didn't push this issue.

Next, she asks if I'll help her get up to speed with her online courses she's doing there for school. What she's actually asking is if I'll DO her online work for her to get her caught up. I told her no and the conversation took at quick turn downhill. She said then it's ok that I fail all my classes because I'm a bad test taker? I reminded her that with online classes you're able to use notes AND she's planning on going to college next year.  This was part of becoming independent.  She asked me to stop talking to her like that. I wasn't raising my voice just speaking in a normal tone saying things she didn't want to hear. She then said, "maybe we'll just never have a good relationship".  With that I told her I was done with the conversation. I said you can call me later if you want. She asked if I wanted to call her back and I reiterated that it was really up to her. I said I love you and I'll talk to you whenever you call. Her response was What the heck but the whole thing said. At that point I said goodbye and hung up.

I realize that this is nothing compared to some of the abuse I've gotten from her in the past 2 years. I want to send a clear message that she won't be coming home to the same situation she left. I have been the sole person in her life that has stood by her through multiple attempts and the unnecessary drama she creates daily. Her father does love her but lives in another country and hasn't had the first hand accounts. It sort of felt like because her conversation went well with him that I was then the demonized parent. Somehow it's impossible for both of us to have a healthy relationship with her when that's all either of us wants for her.

I am back to hardly being able to catch my breath from anxiety. I'm so scared that she's just treating this opportunity to get well like she has every other inpatient... .tell them what they want to hear and get out without doing any reflection about her behavior and how it affects others. Her expectation is that I visit every weekend (11 hours roundtrip). Weather permitting I'm willing to do this, but I'm not willing to go just to be given the silent treatment or treated like I'm her only problem. I worry about her nonstop. She consumes me with worry. I know she's safe, I just don't know what it will take for her to look at her behavior as unacceptable. As a side note, she'd been searching ways to move across the country with no money.  She'd taken her birth certificate, soc sec card and passport and hid them in her car. She literally has no money. All I can imagine is her getting assaulted or trafficked even.

Just so sad. She never wants to hang up the phone because she's bored so she'll carry on an argument for as long as she can. Thanks for letting me vent.

[Mjobpd]

DD17 called from RTC. First she told me that she'd had a phone call with her dad that had gone well (this is not the norm, but I was happy to hear this). Then she told me about her friend she'd met there with the same issues who told her that she was starting to get negative again because "she's just done and wants to go home". So she told her therapist this and her therapist asked her to write down some things she wanted to accomplish before she left. She listed a few like becoming more independent. I said what about relationships with friends. Don't you want to figure out what happens that you have really close friends and then you don't? She said I guess, but I'd like to just not rely on anyone. I didn't push this issue.

Next, she asks if I'll help her get up to speed with her online courses she's doing there for school. What she's actually asking is if I'll DO her online work for her to get her caught up. I told her no and the conversation took at quick turn downhill. She said then it's ok that I fail all my classes because I'm a bad test taker? I reminded her that with online classes you're able to use notes AND she's planning on going to college next year.  This was part of becoming independent.  She asked me to stop talking to her like that. I wasn't raising my voice just speaking in a normal tone saying things she didn't want to hear. She then said, "maybe we'll just never have a good relationship".  With that I told her I was done with the conversation. I said you can call me later if you want. She asked if I wanted to call her back and I reiterated that it was really up to her. I said I love you and I'll talk to you whenever you call. Her response was What the heck but the whole thing said. At that point I said goodbye and hung up.

I realize that this is nothing compared to some of the abuse I've gotten from her in the past 2 years. I want to send a clear message that she won't be coming home to the same situation she left. I have been the sole person in her life that has stood by her through multiple attempts and the unnecessary drama she creates daily. Her father does love her but lives in another country and hasn't had the first hand accounts. It sort of felt like because her conversation went well with him that I was then the demonized parent. Somehow it's impossible for both of us to have a healthy relationship with her when that's all either of us wants for her.

I am back to hardly being able to catch my breath from anxiety. I'm so scared that she's just treating this opportunity to get well like she has every other inpatient... .tell them what they want to hear and get out without doing any reflection about her behavior and how it affects others. Her expectation is that I visit every weekend (11 hours roundtrip). Weather permitting I'm willing to do this, but I'm not willing to go just to be given the silent treatment or treated like I'm her only problem. I worry about her nonstop. She consumes me with worry. I know she's safe, I just don't know what it will take for her to look at her behavior as unacceptable. As a side note, she'd been searching ways to move across the country with no money.  She'd taken her birth certificate, soc sec card and passport and hid them in her car. She literally has no money. All I can imagine is her getting assaulted or trafficked even.

Just so sad. She never wants to hang up the phone because she's bored so she'll carry on an argument for as long as she can. Thanks for letting me vent.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Mjobpd]

Any suggestions on what to do next... .help me handle this in a way that helps her without hurting me by going right to my vulnerabilities?

[DharmaGate]

That is so sad, i know the extents you went to get her into treatment.  Have you looked at the post at top of this board how to get started?  I just did the other day for the first time, really good stuff i would start there. Let us know what you think and i am sure others will be along too.  This is really heartbreaking stuff and there are many tools we can begin to learn to not make it worse and hopefully start to help.  they are not simple or easy, but neither is living this way.  i wish i had the fairy wand to wave over us all.  are you able to rest at all?  what do you do for the anxiety? many of us understandably deal with it.  so sorry you are going through this.   

[Only Human]

Hi MjoBPD 

I'm so glad to hear that she was admitted, I know how stressful that was for you! How long will insurance cover her stay?

She asked me to stop talking to her like that. I wasn't raising my voice just speaking in a normal tone saying things she didn't want to hear.

It's so frustrating, isn't it? I do understand. I think with our BPD children, we must learn a new way to communicate with them and, for me, listening with empathy and validating her feelings has been my first step into this new territory. It's helped her to open up to me and it's helped me to step back, put the responsibility where it belongs - at her feet 

Any suggestions on what to do next... .help me handle this in a way that helps her without hurting me by going right to my vulnerabilities?

Can you share a little more about your vulnerabilities? Are you saying your DD knows how to push your buttons? Or is it something else?

You've got some time with her being away to really dig into the tools we are all learning, to take some time for a respite from the day-to-day, to practice self-care.

I've brought some links here that may be useful in understanding how a small change in the way we communicate can bring great rewards.

1.11 Validation Skill | Stop Invalidating Others

1.12 | Validation Examples

Empathetic Listening and Active Listening

Hang in there, MjoBPD - We've got you!

~ OH

[Mjobpd]

Thanks for the replies!  By vulnerabilities I mean that she knows that I've worked so hard to maintain a relationship with her so that when she says, "I guess we'll never have a good relationship" it hits hard.

[Mjobpd]

I’m really struggling. I feel broken and desperately sad. I know dd17 needs validation and support and between the two of us all that spews out is anger. I called her back after an argument today to tell her that I loved her and wanted to support her only for her to launch into all the things I haven’t done for her. She told me she’s over it and just going to work on herself and I can do whatever I want she doesn’t care. I asked if she still wanted me to visit this weekend and her reply was a cold,”I really don’t care”. I responded angrily with if you don’t care I’m not making the 11 hour round trip to get there for us to just argue. Then she hung up.

I’m so sick to my stomach. I’ve been nothing but supportive over the last year while stuffing down my anger and disappointment. Now when I feel she’s got the opportunity to work on herself but calls to let me know what a failure I am I can’t muster the strength to push my anger aside. At the same time all I want is for her to be healthy and happy. While all she’s hearing is anger all I can do when we hang up is cry and worry about what our future and her own future holds. She’s my baby and I’m falling apart

[Only Human]

Hello MjoBPD,

I'm slowly catching up after being sick, sorry for not responding right away. I can hear your heartache, I'm so sorry the conversation with your DD went so poorly. It's clear you care about her very deeply, have been by her side through thick and thin. She's lucky to have you in her corner.

It's understandable that you'd have trouble pushing your anger aside while being told what a failure you are. You're not a failure, MjoBPD, you're not.

Thanks for sharing your vulnerability, that she knows what hurts the most and says things that hit you right in the heart. Here's a hug for you 

As for validation, it's about validating the feeling - not agreeing to what's being said. If there's nothing to validate, silence is sometimes best.

I have a feeling that your DD does care whether you visit this weekend or not. It may be that she's feeling vulnerable, not willing to say she needs you. once removed posted this in one of my threads recently and it made sense to me:

people with BPD traits struggle to identify their needs. so in turn, they struggle to communicate them. having needs feels "needy", so they struggle with even having needs, and can feel self loathing over having them, which is often then projected on others.

it looks a lot like expecting other people to read their mind. its important to be realistic about the limits here, especially in times of stress.

Something we say here a lot is, "before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse." It seems like you and your DD are stuck in a cycle of conflict and neither of you knows how to make it better. I've been there, MjoBPD, it's awful and seems so hopeless.

Here's a quick read, and an even quicker video, that talk about ending conflict. Have a look at let us know what you think. 

A 3-minute Lesson on Ending Conflict

I know this stuff is hard, my heart goes out to you. I hope you are able to get some rest before your next phone call.

~ OH

[incadove]

MjoBPD, I just wanted to drop a quick note of welcome, and a thought - when my dd's were 17, I remember feeling so intensely hurt, regretful, not at all hopeful.  A friend reminded me that not only are our dd's dealing with BPD, they are also teens about to emerge into adulthood, when the normal behavior is to push away.  The fear of becoming an adult and having to be on ones own can trigger rejection sensitivity and make our loved dd's want to push us away first. 

Fast forward several years, dd's on their own and had their own ups and downs with life and friends, and its a completely different picture. 

Hang in there.

[Mjobpd]

Thank you all. Today is the day that insurance has covered her until, yet no one seems to know if there’s been an extension. Because she’s over the age of 14 insurance can’t tell me anything without a consent from her... .in any circumstance who thinks leaving something like that a mentally ill 14 year old is the right thing to do?

I haven’t drank in quite a few years because I tend to black out after 3 glasses of wine and I never drank anything else. This week dd17 has called at 9:30 our time. I’d already taken a NyQuil for a sinus infection and had been dead asleep when she called. Last night when she woke me up I was clearly still half asleep because I first asked her if she were downstairs (obviously not) and then as I got more frustrated I told her I’d let her talk to her stepfather so she could be sure... .as I walk downstairs calling for him I remember that he’s left town for a conference the next morning. At that point I was AWAKE. I pointed out that my speech was not slurred and I didn’t know what else she wanted me to do to prove to her that I hadn’t been drinking. I was now quite frustrated as this was the second time this week this accusation/distraction from herself has occurred. In looking back this morning I could have and will say when I talk to her that I understand why it would be upsetting if I had been drinking. Outside of that I’m not really sure how else to validate her when it’s really just another attack on my character. An obvious solution would to not answer the phone after I’ve gone to sleep. I fear that as every crisis has occurred long after my tired old self has gone to bed. I also truly wanted to talk to her last night as when she called during the day I was at lunch with a friend and couldn’t talk for as long as she’d like which angered her.

It’s the constant conflict and unnecessary drama that really does make me throw my hands up in defeat. She called my husband after hanging up with me. He told her he agreed no one wanted me to be drinking again and he understood why that would be upsetting. That was not enough for her. She wanted him to declare that yes, I must’ve been drunk because she deemed it so. When I told him the things I said at the beginning of the conversation he laughed and said yep, definitely asleep.

I have the family meeting via Skype today with her team at rtc. She’s requested that bio dad not be included. He and I see eye to eye on very little but we have come together the past 2 weeks to do what’s best for dd17. We are very different in our parenting styles. I read everything I can get my hands on about BPD, my part in it, how to validate, etc. I’m a typical midwestern liberal teacher and he’s got a criminal justice background that has always believed in tough love. My point in all of this is that I’m frustrated he’s not able to be involved in the family meeting because I know he’ll say the hard stuff about her assaulting myself and her sister if the need arises and I feel like this is just another important time when she’s able to divide and conquer her bio parents. Inevitably I’ll forget something or basically just handle the meeting as I do all things which is frustrating for his way of thinking. I get that and it doesn’t upset me until he’s cut out and not able to get his point of view across hoping that I’ll be able to do that for him, as I’d hope he’d do for me, and inevitably coming up short.

Please continue specific prayers that she gets the insurance extensions she needs to begin the work on herself. Thank you for reading this novel!

[Only Human]

Hi MjoBPD,

I'm sure it was very frustrating to have your DD accuse you of being drunk, ugh. As you say, there's not much more you could have done to convince her - her mind was made up.

How'd the Skype meeting go?

Also, was an extension granted?

~ OH