distortions and devaluing have increased and looking for feedback from you.

[truthbeknown]

I had posted several months ago that I was in a new relationship (we're at the 7 month mark now) and I'm concerned that i'm going down a path with someone with BPD traits.  

In the beginning, she told me she had issues with insecurity and that she was an insecure attachment style.  We met in a relationship group online and liked her enthusiasm to break the code in why her relationships weren't successful.   I bought into the idea that she was not attracting the "right" guys into her life.  She had told me that she was attracting "avoidant attachment styles".   I took this for face value but wanted to believe her.  

We are in a long distance relationship which complicates everything for us.  I told her in the beginning that i didn't want to be intimate with her because of the distance and that perhaps it was better to be friends until some things with my career and her schooling settled.  That seemed to turn her on and the last day we were together (the first weekend that we met), i fell into her irresistable clutches (which i don't regret and take responsibility for) but the other day everything came full circle.  

She was really disregulated the other night (friday) and picked up on something i said about a woman that i work with and turned it into something very big.  She's from the phillipines and has very good english but there are times when translation is lost. Mostly in slang or common terms.  In the midwest i grew up with people referring to guys as "dudes" and girls as "chicks" interchangably.  So in other words i didn't look at the word as derogatory but perhaps some people would.  There's a woman in my work that refers to men who work there as "boys" so I referred to her as the "chic that works in the other office came over to our office and just wanted to boss people around and take over or dominate us."  I was talking about my frustrations and sharing that with my gf.  She immediately jumped on this and took offense to it.  She told me that she wanted me to restate my description using different words.  Now I would like to say that I'm a pretty open guy but I have talked to her about timing issues and i grew up with a very critical Mom and so did she.  I try really hard to help her feel secure with me and not to criticize her in ways that might trigger her.  But the reason i state this is because lately (in the last week) she has been finding fault in many things that i say and is using it (in my opinion) to build a case that I have problems too.  

Some background: is that at least once a month she goes into a different personality and rages or gets very angry at me for things which i consider petty.  I know people who are sensitive need validation but normally/typically the rest of the month she seems to be totally okay with me and my feedback. For instance, she has called people names like "dumn bitch" while driving and talking to me or when she is at work.  I have given her feedback that rather then be mad at them why not just ask a question like "what are they doing?" etc.   She has improved in this area.  However, i think that in my case she was equating "chic" with "dumn bitch" and wanting to me to say i would be open to not saying that.  I was resistant.  I think mainly because just recently someone at work had treated me in a very similar manner and she called that woman a "dumn bitch" for treating me that way.  I said, "i don't think she is a bitch, i just think she has poor timing."  

So when i didn't agree to admit that i had done something wrong we went from that topic to her talking about how i "always" need to be right and then when i tried to ask for examples she said, "see now your are just psychologizing it."   I am not on top of my game with validation but she brought up how invalidating i was to her and that shows that i don't care about her.  BTW, i have watched the video on validation today and the psychologist said that sometimes a person wants someone to validate invalid behavior.  So there is positive validation and negative validation.  I felt that validating her for her framing me in this way was invalidating to me.  

The conversation escalated because i didn't say she was right.  Which then went into a character assault on me which then went into another path.  I asked her what is stressing her.  She said, "do you know me? do you know what stresses me?  I said, "yes i do know what your stress is."  She is an exchange student and she needs to be married in order to gain citizenship here.  The clock is ticking (2-3 more years). So i told her that this is what is stressing her out plus some financial stuff (I listen to her even though she projects out that i don't).   I was expecting my gf that i normally deal with say, "yes honey, you do know me; i love you" (typically she's like this) but on Friday night this woman was no where to be found.  I felt like I was talking to a different person.  This makes it hard and it's like the movie "the prestige".  In that movie the wife goes crazy because twin brothers are taking turns having a relationship with her and one loves her and the other is abusive.  On this night (and at least once a month) the abusive partner showed up for me.  And she continued with an angry lecture about how I am making no attempt to help her feel secure in the relationship.  Despite me video chatting hours upon hours per morning and day, despite talking to her every break that i get, despite flying out to see her the last weekend of last year.   I have devoted so much energy to her and to hear this other personality in her insinuate that i don't care or that i don't have her best interest at heart really hurt.

So i reminded her (and we've had many conversations about this) that i am not marrying anyone until we live together for awhile and see how that goes.  I have stated this from the beginning and told her "pretend you have citizenship, i would still want to live with you first before we entered into marriage."    She got upset at me for reminding her of this.  So i gave her some choices because i sensed she was stressed by this.  I said, "you have choices you know- you can either be honest with yourself and me and tell me that you can't do this relationship because you can't do the long distance or have needs that i can't meet or committ to this relationship and me and see where the path goes or takes us."  She flipped out at this statement.   Now, first i want to say, normally in her regular state she would have been okay with this because we typically talk about everything under the sun and go deep about things.  So because of that i was lulled into a false sense of security to talk with her that way.  I know now that she felt invalidated but I according to the video people with BPD are very sensitive to being invalidated when they are triggered.  I was slow in comprehending that my love was not with me and this was someone else- a part of her that might have this BPD or traits of it at times.  


So my logical brain says "if this is too much just move on and tell her you can't meet her needs and try to stay friends"  but my emotions for her and memories of her when she is regulated are really rooting for that side of her to win.  She has admitted to having issues and has tried to work on correction- i give her that and proud of her for that.  I put a boundary up and said that i would have to exit the conversation and that i would like to re-engage on saturday night.   She agreed and I ended the conversation.  On saturday we touched based and her text seemed to indicate a friendly tone.  She said that she loved me "love you".   I felt encourage and couldn't wait to talk to her.
 When we finally spoke she went right into anger with me and telling me how what i said was unexceptible and that i she needed to lay down some ground rules for me.   She had been with a friend all day and the only thing i could gather was that she may have painted me black with the friend and then gotten advise based on that?    It was a very uncomfortable convesation and many times i tried to stay calm and listen but she would not let me talk.  I finally said that i she wasn't going to give me an opportunity to talk then i would have to exit the convesation.  I then went on to try to explain what i really meant again by my words the previous night.  This was still invalidating to her.  I believe that she thinks that validation is admitting that we are wrong.  I could not do this.  It got ugly after that.  Lots of acussations and distorting things that i have said in the past.  Character attacks.  I finally put up another boundary and said, "since you keep throwing anger my way I am going to remove myself from the convesation and I will need a few days to collect myself."
 This might go against dealing with BPD but I also thought if you tell somebody when you are coming back it is acceptable.  So we are supposed to talk on Thursday.  I also told her that my door is open for communication if she chooses to reach out to me sooner.


In conclusion, i don't know what i'm going to say.  I feel like it's based on which gf shows up.  I love her and really thought that i would and could marry her but now i'm scared that this might be a mistake.  I am frustrated because i feel like i keep attracting women who can't emotionally regulate.  They see me as stable but in the end try to make me - them (unstable).  I go from being valued to devalued and it hurts!  I know alot of regulars on here have similar stories but i'm on this board because i'm conflicted about going forward with her.  If i let her go she will probably find someone else who she will do the same thing with.    I had hoped that we could break both of patterns together because she was /has been one of the only partners I've had that was willing to investigate relationship patterns.  This was the first time she came back to me after a heavy conversation in anger.  I'm still in shock but also not really.  I hear a voice that says, "you really know how to pick em".

Sad and conflicted.   Wondering whether i should end this because long distance is hard enough but this has all kinds of conflict written all over it.  

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Ozzie101]

That sounds like a lot, truthbeknown. I'm sorry!

I know what you mean about it seeming like you have two girlfriends. I've felt the same about my uBPDh. But not long ago, I had a realization. It seems like he's two different people, but he isn't. He's one person. Those two sides may seem very different but they're always there, completely entwined together.

I realized I have to accept that this is him, the good and the bad. The bad may get better. It may get worse. Am I willing to accept that? I don't really have a definitive answer to that yet for myself, but it's something to think about.

[truthbeknown]

Thanks for that perspective.  I wonder if some of us suffer from over-empathy?  in other words, in my case logically I should probably run because we aren't even married.  But the good is so good when it's there- I don't know maybe it's just a way they have of covering up the dark side.  It reminds me of star wars and Anakin Skywalker's character.  His paranoia is so easy to manipulate that he goes to the dark side for what he perceives is the "right" reasons.   My gf is so paranoid at times and I do wonder what the difference is between BPD and Schitzoid personalities?   Not that it makes a difference but just curious.  Anyway, I'll see how I feel by Thursday.  We have a "cooling off" period right now.  I had request just a couple days and she extended it to Thursday.  She said she had quizzes for school.  It was the first time since we have dated that she didn't tell me about something like that until after she picked a fight with me.

On a side note, I think maybe I triggered some of this because last weekend I had gone back to see my mom and I didn't tell my mom about her.   She asked and I told her that it was the right time.  Honestly my mom is more on the NPD spectrum and is a little prejudice.  I am concerned that she will judge my relationship with my gf because she is Asian.  My gf's mom is the same way but I asked to meet her when I went to visit her during the New Years break.   We have had plenty of conversations about that but this time it apparently wasn't safe to tell my gf things I could have told her in the past.  Now I know why they say it's like "walking on eggshells".  I was just walking like normal and didn't know the eggs were even thrown down there.   I'm afraid if I stay I will have to tip toe and not be able to know when she is my real gf or the imposter shows up.  It's like being a spy and dating a double agent.   Maybe a bad metaphor but it's just what i'm thinking. 

I read the success stories thread on here and maybe if we lived near each other I could insist that she go for therapy before engaging in marriage?  it seemed like some couples have done well with the partner agreeing to DBT sessions/program.   I don't feel I have that leverage in a long distance relationship and of course there is the cost.  Just really sad right now!

[Ozzie101]

I can certainly understand! It's easy to say "go" or "run" but when you're in the relationship and you know the good times and still feel the emotions, it's not so simple. Honestly, sometimes I think there's a bit of Stockholm Syndrome and traumatic bonding going on as well, though that's probably more common in longer-term, living together situations.

If you do want to try to make it work, you might try reading and posting in the Bettering thread here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=6.0

People there can help you brainstorm and come up with tools and advice to help you.

Yes, the "meet Mom" thing could have had something to do with it. People with BPD tend to be VERY sensitive to any rejection, real or perceived.

[Cat Familiar]

You are very logical and while your girlfriend is not dysregulated, she may be logical too, but once she's upset, she's in her emotional mind, not her logical mind and as you've noticed, communication doesn't go well.

What I noticed in your thread, particularly because I tend to do the same, is that you tried to explain yourself repeatedly and it ultimately undermined your desire for understanding. You've probably read about JADEing. Here is a link you might not have seen. Don't JADE

[truthbeknown]

CAT:

Read your link about Jading:

I have tried with highly emotional people to not react and sometimes just to listen.  I have gotten yelled at for not engaging.  This happened with my udBPD boss.  He yelled at me because I did not make eye contact with him in a meeting even though he had treated me very poorly days prior to this meeting.  I have experienced people with BPD will be perceptive to any change you make in your behavior. So if you're a talker and then you don't talk they pick up on that.  So i'm not really sure how to apply the non Jading without being attacked for changing my behavior?

Also she went on for 30 minutes or longer without letting me talk. I took notes because it went on so long which she criticized later too. She had so much pent up anger and I don't think it was all about me but I was the safe one for her to explode onto.  I have experienced this with my children after divorce.  They felt safe showing me anger because they couldn't show it to their primary abuser (their mom).   With my daughter I finally found that she needed to be hugged to get past the words.   It was counter intuitive because I had always been taught not to reward bad behavior but when someone doesn't know how to regulate emotions on their own they need a proxy person.  It does turn out (I believe) that many of us non's are the parts of themselves that they are missing until they learn to sooth on their own.  It is just hard when they bite the hand that feeds them so to speak.