Adoption word has been brought up again

[Cipher13]

I've been married now for over 17 years. We do not have any children. Originally early on in our relationship we decided that children were not in out plans. For various reasons and not the topic of this post.  At 1 point the conversation changed slightly about 7 year ago or so maybe. We thought adoption was something we wanted. We did research and started to plan. Our relationship was not the strongest. Hasn't really ever been. The conversation faded out. Once in a while she brings it up.

My problem with adopting or having any child live in our house is based mainly on the fact our relationship is not one I'd want a child to be brought up on. I know there are far worse situations than mine that kids are in and they turn out fine. Or mostly fine. Many do not. I don't really know the best way to begin the conversation with my wife that I don't want to have any kids because of her. She doesn't have a good attitude towards people much less her own family. She won't have any relationship with my family nor allow me to. It just isn't an environment anyone should be brought into if you can help it.  I would have like to have kids. But not like this and not in this environment.

[Turkish]

I'm an adopted kid 

What are your specific concerns?

[Cipher13]

my concerns are not about adoptions  or having kids but the environment I would be bringing them into. I want them to know both sets of grandparents. My wife will not allow for that. I would want them to see a loving father and mother that know how to work through tough times and cherish the good times. Not complain and berate and nitpick every thing that is wrong with nearly every person on earth.  Short version I wouldn't wan tot bring a child into a BPD environment where they are exposed to all the negative attributes to an udpw/BPD and have the potential to get the blame for things that are not fair or there doing.  If you know your relationship is not strong and could implode at any moment then bring a child in to that will not make that magically better or easier to handle.

[GaGrl]

On a practical level, what would your day-to-day life look like if you had a baby/child in the house? This is related to the BPD also.

As I recall, your relationship with your wife was very much the caregiver model -- cooking for her, doing housework/chores, even ironing her work clothes.

What added level of responsibility would you take on with a child? And is that feasible?

And would the demands and requests to move be as frequent?

[Cat Familiar]

If you know your relationship is not strong and could implode at any moment then bring a child in to that will not make that magically better or easier to handle.

Exactly. It's good that you realize a child wouldn't be a band-aid for an unhealthy relationship.

[Turkish]

Exactly. It's good that you realize a child wouldn't be a band-aid for an unhealthy relationship.

I agree.

[loyalwife]

Hi Cipher13,
     From having gone through the adoption process myself, I know that both people must pass the home study. It is possible that your wife will not pass if she is asked explicit questions about parenting. You might check into this with the agency you are thinking about in your state. I found out after my divorce that they seriously thought about saying no because of my ex husbands answers.
     You are absolutely right to be hesitant to want to bring a baby into your current situation. My ex was a distant dad, but not a BPD. My current husband is BPD and he is anti family. He is alienated from his FOO, his only daughter and has no interest (only contempt) for my kids (and dog).  Go with your gut on this.
     I hope this helps you, and that you get more information from an agency. As I mentioned they are very particular and can spot problems a mile away.
         

[stolencrumbs]

This really resonates with me, Cipher. I actually did have that conversation with my wife almost five years ago. As you can imagine, it did not go well, and I still hear about it. I felt, and feel, much like you do. There were other reasons at the time that I didn't want to have a child, but the fact that our relationship was already rocky, and that I saw a lot of red flags, was a main reason. I have a Dr. Phil-ism in my head--children shouldn't be born with a job. I think that's right, and my wife definitely had the attitude that having a baby would fix things. It was a long conversation, but I remember it pretty clearly. I expressed that there were a lot of things I thought we needed to work on to be in a place where we were ready to bring a child into the world. There were health issues, financial issues, and relationship issues. I was willing to sacrifice a lot of my own happiness, but I wasn't going to bring a child into that. I suck at boundaries, but that is something I was clear about. To this day, she characterizes the conversation as me telling her she wasn't fit to be a mother, and that I "took" that from her. It's weird--she simultaneously accuses me of lying to her about wanting to have children while being mad that I was honest about my reasons for not wanting to have children. We also talked about adoption at some point later, and I was open to exploring that. Then she wanted to be sure that I would lie on the application about her health and mental health history. Yeah, that conversation didn't go well either. It does really hurt me, because I know how much she does want to be a mom. It all makes me really sad, for both of us.

[GaGrl]

BTW, my DH and his uNPD/BPD ex adopted a niece from the ex's native country. I love this step-daughter -- she is a treasure. But the adoption and family integration was difficult on DH's then- family.

[Cipher13]

I do think she is capable of being a good mother. However when she becomes "tired" or overwhelmed I will need to be there to pick up the slack. As Gagrl correctly recalls my role is very much the caregiver. I to some degree already take care of a child at times.   To give a little more respective to my hesitation and why I believe the relationship would need to vastly improve before going to the adoption route. I have not had any physical intimate relations with my wife in 2 years. I have been sleeping on the couch for nearly a full year now.  We have moved so many times in out relationship that I can't even count. Over 18 in the last 18 to 19 years.  I have learned never to get too comfortable in any place we live.

[flourdust]

Hey, everyone, let's back up here. This isn't about whether or not to adopt.

Here's the issue.

I don't really know the best way to begin the conversation with my wife that I don't want to have any kids because of her.

Cipher, have you ever been able to have any difficult conversation with your wife where you assert your desires and needs?

[Cipher13]

Thanks flourdust.

I think your point of asking if I have ever been able to have any difficult conversation with my wife where I assert my desires and needs?  Answer no not really. I think this is the real question not just an adoption topic but these kinds of conversations in general.  The last attempt at one was a few weeks ago. I found out about the passing of my grandfather and was talking with her about going to the funeral. She was standing her ground and not wanting to go and making sure I understood that meant me also. I tried to talk about it. She tried to argue about it. I can keep my calm with her and not argue back but make my intention clear.  She yells, I speak. It drives her crazy I think that I don't react to her the same way. It was a difficult conversation that held a lot of emotion for me on many levels.  The threat was levied at my feet. If I go I am not to come home and it is over. Until the night before the funeral I was planning to go. Then she said well then I am going and we are not talking to anyone. We go and sitting the back of the church and leave without anyone seeing us or talking to us.  I knew people would come up to us and I wanted to avoid that scenario for my families sake. So I decided not to go.

[Cat Familiar]

So sorry about your grandfather's passing.  

You've been with your wife for a long time and these patterns have deep roots. Do you have a desire to change the structure of your relationship so that you can get more of your needs met?

[Wrongturn1]

Ouch, Cipher, it pains me to learn that you skipped your grandfather's funeral due to your wife's antics.  At the same time, I can sympathize, having skipped a lot of events due to my uBPDw's condition.

On adoption, my vote is "no".  Your wife is not equipped to be a mother - she apparently is not even taking care of herself, much less an infant.  And you are right to question whether it would be the right thing to bring another human into the kind of environment that exists at your place.

[Cat Familiar]

To get an idea of the impact a parent with BPD can have upon their child, please do some reading on the Parents, Siblings or In-Law suffering from BPD board. https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=7.0