Ex keeps requesting face to face talks.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi all,

I've been single for over a year now and for the most part getting on with it and doing well. I still have some bad days and some internal things processing but otherwise onward and upward. I'm pretty much no to low contact with my ex who I share 2 kids with. This works well for me but is more like parallel parenting not co parenting. For the last 3 months or so everytime something comes up that apparently needs to be discussed no matter how irrelevant or how important it might seem she has been demanding to talk about it face to face. So far I have been able to avoid it every time saying I'd rather have a record of the discussion etc but it seems to be never ending. Just wondering if anyone has dealt with this before? She knows I don't want anything to do with her or the decisions she's made so my guess is it's just a way to try take down my boundaries.

[sladezy]

Hi all,

I've been single for over a year now and for the most part getting on with it and doing well. I still have some bad days and some internal things processing but otherwise onward and upward. I'm pretty much no to low contact with my ex who I share 2 kids with. This works well for me but is more like parallel parenting not co parenting. For the last 3 months or so everytime something comes up that apparently needs to be discussed no matter how irrelevant or how important it might seem she has been demanding to talk about it face to face. So far I have been able to avoid it every time saying I'd rather have a record of the discussion etc but it seems to be never ending. Just wondering if anyone has dealt with this before? She knows I don't want anything to do with her or the decisions she's made so my guess is it's just a way to try take down my boundaries.

[kells76]

Hi sladezy,

Yup, I remember the kids' mom really pushing the "face to face" stuff for the first couple of years. She liked to "discuss" the schedule and child support with DH in front of the kids. I think it was a power or leverage thing -- prep the kids with her, then bring them along to support her position, so DH looked like the bad guy. Not cool.

It really helped that the kids' counselor would model EXCLUDING the kids from adult discussions. The C told DH & I that one time SD13 (back when she was SD10 or 11) tried to insert herself into the session C was having with Mom & Stepdad. C basically shut the door in SD's face and said "This is not your time". Strong boundaries! Adult stuff was not for kids.

So it sounds like your kids' mom keeps trying to get you to do F2F, but you're doing something that works... .for now... .to avoid it. What have you been doing that works?

One tactic I can think of off the top of my head is the "sad casual" approach: Mom is picking up the kids and says "The kids don't want to come over next time" or whatever. You: "oh my, that's a big deal! Let me think about it and I'll get back to you tomorrow". Where you're commiserating with the emotion of her suggestion, but you're not going to flip your life upside down to resolve it instantly for her.

Keep us posted with what has worked for you, what hasn't, and if you want some more brainstorming about alternatives. It can get better the longer you're out of the relationship, and having the kids in counseling is a big help, too.

All the best,

kells76

[livednlearned]

It doesn't really matter what it's about 

You aren't interested in discussing things F2F so you don't have to do it.

There may come a time when you feel different but for now it's not up for discussion and that's ok.

I sometimes just pasted the exact same response in email replies to my ex. Then I realized one reply is sufficient.

There are some people who know what boundaries are and roll through them anyway. Then there are people who don't really seem to understand what they are. My ex just didn't have a real conception that there was a separation between himself and other people. So I figured as annoying as it was, that meant I had to keep pointing to the boundary since he seemed puzzled that such a thing would even exist.

And by puzzled I mean enraged 

[Turkish]

Yes, sometimes, but it's mostly phone calls now.  Originally it wasn't for the same reason kells76 states in their case.

In my case,  I think a little might have been she being aware of things being documented,  but I think it was more so that she had moved on but still wanted her cake to eat, a normal r/s with me as if nothing happened.  Some of it might also be her communication style,  and despite my feelings,  I didn't assign anything nefarious with this.  I'm kind of taciturn anyway, somethimg which she didn't like in our r/s. I just like to decide and do,  and I feel overanalyzing and equivocating about what I saw were simple decisions is a waste of time.  

What do you think?

[Mutt]

Hi sladezy,

For the last 3 months or so everytime something comes up that apparently needs to be discussed no matter how irrelevant or how important it might seem she has been demanding to talk about it face to face.

Im in a similar situation as you , parallel parenting and low contact. For example she wanted me to be with her at demo of learning sessions at school or when I took S11, S7 then to his appointments to see a T to teach him coping skills - he’s autistic and he would have meltdowns for things that at that time I didn’t understand because he is autistic.

My point is that she wanted me to be right there with her - no thanks. Being married to her and her blaming me for everything was one thing but after being separated?  It just causes distractions they could talk to us separately so that we can stay on point with what issue is at hand. Which is what matters the most not someone that has to project their feelings because they can’t cope with it - that takes up a lot of room.

Like livednlearned said a pwBPD have difficulties understanding boundaries and when you change your behaviour and set boundaries there will be some lashing out. I think that she’s testing your boundaries - not everything needs immediate attention if it’s an emergency well you can see each other face to face it doesn’t have to be a hard and fast rule but if she’s just going to cause distractions or give you a hard time you don’t have to subject yourself to that. Keep defending your boundaries it can be frustrating that you have to keep defending the same things but those tests should eventually space out. She’ll test it again but it could be some time until the next time that it happens.

[sladezy]

Thanks so much for all the words guys, I've been meaning to get around to a response to everyone but I have been busy with work. I can't really respond to everyone right now as I'm in Shock and I hope that sharing this will help me come down. Just before I do though i don't know or think that what I've just found out was the reason she wanted to talk face to face as it was always an issue related to the kids but I'd be damn sure if it come up she would say she tried to talk to me face to face but I wouldn't.

My kids just told me when they got dropped off that "mummy has a baby in her tummy" which was confirmed to my dad from my ex when she dropped the kids off today. Now for those who are not up to speed with my entire back story, which I would assume most aren't as it's been over a year long journey. My oldest daughter isn't biologically mine. She was 6months old when I met my ex and she has no bio father in the picture and I still father her as my own after she got rid of me.

So that's 3 kids to 3 father's. I don't think she has a new partner but I'm not 100% sure. The kids have never mentioned anything and I don't go looking. I just spoke to her uncle that had heard nothing about pregnancy or a partner. I don't know how far along she is but long enough to tell a 2 and 4 year old.

I wish I could get more custody of my daughter's but I don't think I'd have a chance in hell.

[ForeverDad]

I wish I could get more custody of my daughter's but I don't think I'd have a chance in hell.

I have a niece, I'll tell you what I told her.  When I asked her why she hadn't asked me to help out on something, she replied, "I thought you'd say No."  My admonition?  "If you don't ask, then for sure it is No.  But... if you had asked, I might have said Yes."

You can guess why I shared that story, right?  If you don't try (and try hard and try smart) then of course you won't "have a chance in hell".  So... what will it be?  Can you try?  Or at least do some contemplating, research, get legal consultations, formulating some strategies likely to work, etc?

Admittedly, there may be limits.  If you didn't legally adopt the oldest child, then maybe your state won't view you as having basis to make a legal claim to continue parenting the oldest child.  However, maybe your state will rule that since you've been parenting that child, though not yours biologically, you are in effect the father of that child by every other measure.  Get some legal consultations.  They're confidential.  (Beware that you don't share with Ex what you learn from those consults and strategies you develop, at least not prematurely.)

I started out with alternate weekends and an evening in between in my first temp order (separation).  After it lapsed I filed for divorce and again got the same parenting order in its temp order.  In the final decree 2 years later I moved up to equal time.  About 3 years later I was able to become Legal Guardian.  Another 3 years and I got majority time during the school year.  At last we had a schedule that deflated mother's entitlement and sense of control.

Not everyone is able to get legal custody or majority time or even equal time.  Despite the years of distress and frustration I was quite fortunate, over time.  My point is that if you don't try, and try smart with practical strategies, then you'll never know how much parenting you can secure.  Even if you're in the bottom of the 9th inning, have 2 outs and 2 strikes, the game still isn't over.  The rewards are worth it.

[sladezy]

Foreverdad thankyou, 

Our arrangement is 50/50 at the moment. I have 4 nights a week she has 4 days one change over is night and one is in the morning. I'd like to have it as full time with her having every second week and or one night a week or something of that effect. I believe I can provide a more stable less chaotic environment for my kids. In the long run I feel like that is what's best for the kids well being however taking them from their mother at the young age they are could have equal or worse results.

What country are you in? I'm in Australia. Court costs a life savings that I don't have. I will look into some advice though definitely when I can. The next couple of weeks are busy as hell including working, kids, moving, doctors visits hair cuts but I'll make time to try to get an appointment.

Today mentally I've been mostly ok but I've felt physically sick from the shock. Even if I didn't think there was ever a hope in hell that she would get help and our family might somehow recover all possiblity of that is gone now. Which is almost like some kind of secondary grief.

[ForeverDad]

I too felt that alternate weeks would reduce the number of exchanges and hence confrontations.  But my Custody evaluator, a child psychologist, said children under ten years of age do better with more frequent exchanges.  He recommended equal time in a 2-2-3 schedule (also known as 2-2-5-5) where one parent gets Mon-Tue overnights, the other gets Wed-Thu overnights and they alternate the 3 overnight weekends.  I picked mid-week so I would be sure his week's homework was done by Friday.

I again contemplated alternate weeks when my son was nearly 12.  My lawyer chimed in, "Are you saying you want your Ex to have an entire week with your child, that it's okay for her to have longer periods with him?"

[worriedStepmom]

It is a secondary grief, and you should allow yourself to process those feelings.  My ex remarried about 6 months after our divorce was final, and even though I didn't want him anymore, it still felt like a punch in the gut.   

It's okay to be shocked and maybe a little hurt or sad. 

[ForeverDad]

Recovery — whether it is from a disorder or a failed relationship — is a process and not an event.  Give it time... to heal... to let go... to move on...

[sladezy]

Hi people,

Well it's been a week since I found out my ex is pregnant to another man. I can confirm that she has told the kids she will be the mum and the dad of this baby. That she doesn't have a "serious" partner or anyone that she has introduced to our kids. My anxiety has relaxed abit more and I've been to see the my GP.

I'd listened to everyone's stories regarding the initial point of this thread regarding the face to face discussion requests from her and stood my ground on communication via text or email as she again this week requested a face to face discussion about our eldest changing to pre-school. Saying if I didn't the kids would not go to the school that we had agreed upon. The conversation ended with her requesting my email address even though she already has it, I provided it again without a fuss. That was serveral days ago now and I am still yet to receive an email about her apparent concerns that required a face to face conversation.

Part of what I've been dealing with after hearing the news of her pregnancy is the opening of old wounds and feeling like I love her again and want to make it work again although I really don't like the idea of going through with the pregnancy. I reached out to her today just saying that I missed the time when things were good between us. Hoping it would be some kind of olive branch. However she jumped down my throat (or at least that's how I read the message). Blaming me for every bad thing I've done since we broke up and how easy she has tried to make it for me telling me that I would need to change to make things good between us. I don't think she made reference to me talking about us being in a relationship. I replied very passively and explained I was talking about when we were together. That I wasn't interested in arguing and who did what and when in the last X amount of time because we were both guilty of things from time to time. I explained that I'm not coming from a hurtful place with some things I say that may be taken that way and that I wished we could both spend more time trying to understand each other. I didn't expect a positive response to this however I haven't had any response next. The next time I hear from her she will likely be pretending nothing has happened and try to be the happy as Larry co parenting she wants to be.