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Skills we were never taught
98
A 3 Minute Lesson
on Ending Conflict
Communication Skills-
Don't Be Invalidating
Listen with Empathy -
A Powerful Life Skill
Setting Boundaries
and Setting Limits
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Author Topic: I learned I have ADHD. Working on treatment but start seeing wife is BPD  (Read 451 times)
GingerJariHubs

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« on: February 27, 2019, 02:18:12 PM »

Yikes. My marriage sucks right now and I am trying so hard to fix it. I have my own issues, and I certainly add to the challenges of our relationship. I formally got diagnosed with Adult ADHD about 2 years ago. I think I have been a pretty high functioning ADHD - but certainly have my struggles - being forgetful, following through on commitments, easily spacing out.

As I have worked to address these, I wonder, though, if there isn't another side to this equation. A therapist I met with briefly once recommended I read the "stop walking on eggshells" book after hearing a little of what is going on in my life. As I am reading it (about half way through), I realize that there is so much in here that describes my situation. My wife is fantastic and wonderful... until she isn't. It seems that no matter how hard I try, the success I see, the changes I make... when I do make a mistake, it all goes back to square 0, and I am the worst. She responds either by collapsing with no energy and appears beyond sad - sometimes sharing how hopeless and lost and tired she feels and how she has no hope of any change, or she responds with sarcasm, yelling, name-calling, and pushing me away.

I am trying to learn how to respond in these situations (which is why it feels like walking on eggshells), as nothing I say makes a difference. The best apologies I can make are either interrupted before I say two words (she seems to know what I will say, doesn't like my tone, doesn't like "how" I say it), or flat out refused with responses such as "that means nothing to me", or she hates how I say "sorry" or that I sound like a robot. While I can agree that I can often not be the most thoughtful of people, her response to me seems way overblown on a usual basis. When we do have a blow up like this, the only thing I find that works is to completely let go of any desire to defend myself, to ignore all the insults she hurls at me, to not have an attitude, or sigh, or be frustrated, or to seem cold, but to be sweet and kind and understanding of how hard she has it and how challenging I am for her.

I do feel like I am taking seriously the desire to improve and change for the better. I am seeing a counselor for my ADHD (my wife insists I only should talk to him about my problems and tools to address my ADHD, but my counselor also thinks most of these issues are happening in her heart), I am taking medication for my ADHD, I have set up so many reminder and calendar systems that really do help me stay on track. I am not shirking responsibility in my household, and I don't think a single person in the world could call me lazy. Yet despite all of this, my wife consistently tells me that she has to do all the work at home. She can't rely on me for anything. She doesn't trust me. Everything falls on her, etc. I try to step in and take things off her plate, but it seems the more I do that... the harder it becomes for me to juggle it all, and the less she remembers just how much I do. I would say I do far more than half of all the workload at home, and yet I am the one with a high-pressure full-time job, and she is a stay-at-home mom (not saying that is not challenging - I know that is a real burden). However, I am the one who wakes up at 5:30 most morning to go to the gym so I can get back before 7 so I can be the ones to get kids out of bed and let my wife stay in bed a little longer (because she is not a morning person and morning routine is stressful). I get the kids dressed, fed, pack lunches and my eldest off to school. I also usually cook breakfast for my wife (she doesn't like cereal - so it usually eggs and turkey sausage or oatmeal that I need to make). I also then try to clean the kitchen, take out the trash, and wipe up the counters tables, etc, all while trying to find a way to finish getting myself ready and not putting too much of a burden on my wife. I then head to work, and will regularly find ways to leave work early (I work through lunch so I can get home earlier). By the time I get home, my wife is "exhausted" from her day, so I take over with kids/making dinner. We eat dinner together and then I am in charge of most of our kids bath times as well as cleaning all the dishes. I help get our kids to bed, finish cleaning kitchen, and then I try to "connect" with my wife and end up talking about most of the stuff that happened/what we need to do/clarify finances/etc. I don't have a moment to myself all day long, and the weekends are very similar where I pretty much either try to take care of the kids to give her a break or I work on projects we need done around the house, as well as do the meal planning and shopping for the week. I really am not sure what more I can do. When I look at what I can count on her to do, really the only thing she seems to take responsibility for is the laundry (except mine often doesn't get washed so I do it half the time), updating our finances (which I used to do but not very regularly - so she took it over and it is now even less up to date most of the time), and watching our girls when they are home.

Even when I am juggling all these things, there will ALWAYS be SOMETHING that happens that I am doing wrong, that has annoyed or stressed or offended my wife, or that I am forgetting, which then goes into either a fight or a long talk where she tries to "help" me grow and change so I can learn how to not do "whatever" in the future.

As I am trying to change for the better, I am seeing her only change for the worst. She has progressively over the years began to have shorter and shorter patience with me, to the point where even the slightest indication that I am not listening or staying on track with something she has said makes her curse me out. She blames me for everything it seems (particularly the ADHD), and will never take responsibility for her part. She will occassionally apologize for hurting me and for yelling at me. She does it sincerely, but there is always an underlying statement she makes about how she wouldn't do those things if I would just listen to her, learn her and not push her buttons - so again, I feel blamed by her.

I am in one of those very isolated places that non-BPDs can get to. She criticizes me for not having close male friendships, yet anytime I try to hang out with other guys, she either criticizes who I choose to hang out with, or talks about how "hard" it is is to be the one in charge at home when I am gone, when she is already doing "So much".

I don't feel like I can ever mention to her that I think she has BPD. We tried going to counseling once, but I feel like the counselor just took my wife's word on how selfish, uncompassionate, and bad listener I was and that was all we focused on. If anything it just solidified her feelings of being the poor victim of the thoughtless, selfish ADHD husband. We finally are going back to counseling this coming week, but I have little hope that it can get better, and think it will take a long time before this person will hopefully address some issues in her heart.

I do really love her and care for her (though she regularly expresses doubt about it). I know I need to figure out how to make healthy boundaries in our marriage, but I feel trapped in our current reality. I think she is an amazing and bright woman, and want the best for her, but I am so worried that she is being overtaken by BPD, anxiety, stress, resentment and anger that I might never be able to come near her again or trust my heart to her.

Sometimes I feel like I am going crazy and I don't know if I really am causing all this with my thoughtless and by not always being the most responsible person, or if there really is something going wrong with her. Maybe she is normal, but just so so hurt by me that she is just responding to me out of that, and I need to learn how to make it up to her...

I do know that something needs to change. This is ruining my life (and hers.. and probably our kids).

Any ideas? Encouragement? Good steps to take?
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Ozzie101
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« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2019, 08:15:01 AM »

Hi GingerJariHubs!  Welcome new member (click to insert in post) Welcome to the BPD family!

I'm very sorry for the circumstances that brought you here but I'm glad you did find us. This is a compassionate group and you'll find many fellow members here can understand what you're dealing with -- and many have good tips and tools to share.

It sounds like you have a lot on your plate. The "you don't do anything around here, I do it all" speech is one I heard frequently from my uBPDh when he was going through a dysregulation phase. All the evidence to the contrary couldn't convince him. And, like you, I scrambled to take on more and more of the chores but that didn't work either. From the sounds of it, it's not working for you. You've been bending over backwards and twisting yourself in knots, pushing yourself to the limit to accommodate her. And yet she's been getting worse. So, yes, you may want to look at changing your approach.

We do have some tools here that might have some good advice. Boundaries are something I've struggled with. There's an article about it here that is a good primer:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries
Does anything there sound like it might help in your situation?

Keep posting! And feel free to look through and post in other's threads as well. That's how we help each other learn.
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Red5
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« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2019, 09:44:47 AM »

Welcome GingerJariHubs !

This is a great place to come and to learn, and as well interact with others here whom are on the same path as you, this can be very healing,

So wow!

How long have you been married?, and when did you come to suspect that your wife may have BPD?

Your forth (4th) paragraph, wow, I could have written that myself!

Excerpt
I would say I do far more than half of all the workload at home,

Me2…

You seem to be running on fumes, and "burning" the candle at "both ends"… you need to find time to recharge, so its good you have the gym, yes, what you describe, I've been there myself… seems the more we do (non's)… the worse we get/got criticized… I think this may be "projection" onto us by the person with BPD (pw/BPD)...

Keep posting, and again, welcome!

Red5
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“We are so used to our own history, we do not see it as remarkable or out of the ordinary, whereas others might see it as horrendous. Further, we tend to minimize that which we feel shameful about.” {Quote} Patrick J. Carnes / author,
Radcliff
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2019, 12:39:02 AM »

Welcome

Let me join Ozzie101 and Red5 in welcoming you.  Wow, you have an astonishing load on your shoulders.  Hang in there.  You probably understand that your wife's reality is distorted, and you really are more than pulling your weight.  Even so, it's hard to be hearing your wife's impressions of you day in and day out.

The symptoms you describe -- forgetting things and spacing out -- could easily be attributable to the stress of the life you are living.  Do you find that the ADHD medication is helping you?

You need regular support.  Don't allow yourself to remain isolated.  Start by becoming a regular participant here.

RC
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GingerJariHubs

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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2019, 01:32:20 PM »

Thanks for your encouragement. I do need support in this as I feel very alone. I am not one who is very good to begin with at building and maintaining friendships well (and this was before I felt so overwhelmed by the constant demands of my uBPDw).

Things continue to be about the same. I keep working on trying my hardest to change the areas in my life that need development, but keep never being enough, or she doesn't see it or as she says to me all the time: "That's not good enough".

I think the most frustrating part of this is that she is convinced that I don't take her seriously and that I am unwilling to be humble, push through, or consistent. While I struggle with consistency, in general, my marriage is something that I have put at super high priority and so I am daily working on my actions, words, responses, etc...

What happens, though, is there is always a perceived slight on my part (I forgot to do something, or didn't do it HOW she wanted, or WHEN she wanted, or even if I did do it - it should have been done so long ago in the first place that it doesn't mean anything now). She has an incredibly short fuse, and so will very quickly snap at me, silence me, insult me, and/or stonewall me. If I show even the slightest frustration at her response, or even show that I am hurt and deflated, she then attacks again. She says it never changes, and it proves I don't care about her, that I can't "push through" and love her, that I need to be more understanding of her and how hard it is for her to live with someone like me. Nothing short of baring my soul and saying "oh my gosh, I've been awful, how could I do that, I was rude, I confess, I am sorry, I see what you mean, that makes sense, etc..." will allow her to even consider not pushing me away anymore... and even then it seems like it takes hours or days for me to "earn" my way back into her good graces. Then she will say she forgives me, yet also resents me for ruining her day, or whatever it was that we are doing (every vacation we have tried to have is like this, and I "owe" her a good one because I keep not learning and ruin them all and waster her time).

Ugh... anyway, thanks for listening. I am just venting and frustrated. I am learning to speak truth to myself outside of my wife and find my validation not from what she says or thinks about me, so I feel more emotionally healthy now than how I did for quite some time, but still just wish I had a marriage that had any form of connection, safety and intimacy.
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Radcliff
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2019, 03:23:45 AM »

Thanks for sharing with us how you're doing.  Our BPD relationships can be exhausting and discouraging for sure.  Are there any bright spots?  Times or circumstances where things are positive for a while?  If so, can you tell us about them?

RC
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GingerJariHubs

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« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2019, 10:11:13 AM »

  Are there any bright spots?  Times or circumstances where things are positive for a while?  If so, can you tell us about them?

Thanks for asking. Yes, there are bright spots. For some time I have felt like the bright spots have outweighed the hard spots, but it is getting fewer and farther between, and now they feel like oases in the desert.

My wife can be a very caring person. She is INCREDIBLY thoughtful (which is why it is so hard for her when others are unthoughtful). So there are times when she is encouraging. She affirms what I do, and says I am a great husband and a caring father. She sees how hard I am trying, and says how she doesn't know what she would do without me. She thinks I am so much more emotionally aware than most men and other husbands she hears about. She says I am such a hard worker. I make her laugh sometimes, which is the best, and she sometimes makes me laugh.

But then it is the smallest thing that happens that seems to erase all of that and suddenly all I hear is things like "I can't stand you", "I regret marrying you", "I don't want to live with you", "you disgust me", "what is wrong with you? No... really, what is wrong with you? How can you care so little", etc...

So.. is this bipolar, BPD, or am just that dense and horrible of a husband that her screaming, crying and yelling at me for putting a box away this morning in the wrong spot is totally normal?

Oi vay... I'm off topic. Yes, there can be some really sweet times. We can be in love and laughing and dreaming, etc... it just never last very long anymore.

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Red5
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« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2019, 10:13:57 AM »

Good Morning GingerJariHubs!

Thank you for sharing more of your day to day life with us… many of us here, me included have lived this exact same life as you are describing, and to echo Radcliff, it is invariably exhausting, both physically, and emotionally… I used to call it "getting an "F" on my report card"… seemed no matter what I did, tried to improve, or rectify with my own uBPDw, it didn't ever matter, still got that "F"…

You need to find a place, within yourself, of peace and tranquility… this is NOT easy, while the storm billows and blows right there in front of you… its been said here on these boards so many times… "don't take it personal"… but this is so hard to do, not to do… it goes against everything we know as "constant"… but I'm sure you've heard about JADE'ing… "justify-argue-defend-explain… trying to reason your way along, which never really works, and will quickly escalate the fight/disagreement/dysregulation…

You have to find a way to "keep your batteries charged"… somewhere some way… I think I remember you saying that you go to the gym .. that's good!… things like that, to get your head space cleared out, and get yourself back down to "base-line"… before you have to go back into the "fray"…

Have you tried to use any of the tools that are discussed here, across these boards… this website is loaded with information, tips, and recommendations on how we as "nons" (not pw/BPD) can survive, and try to keep things from getting out of control with our loved ones whom are BPD .. either diagnosed or not.

It is very important as others have said, that you take time for yourself, if at all possible, and I know that this is near impossible, with your wife, and the kids, and the extreme load that you are carrying… I've been there myself… I know how hard and draining it can become.

Take care of yourself, and read up on these tools we are talking about (top banner)… knowledge is deliverance (power)… keep posting GingerJariHubs !

Kind regards Red5
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“We are so used to our own history, we do not see it as remarkable or out of the ordinary, whereas others might see it as horrendous. Further, we tend to minimize that which we feel shameful about.” {Quote} Patrick J. Carnes / author,
Red5
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« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2019, 10:32:46 AM »

So.. is this bipolar, BPD, or am just that dense and horrible of a husband that her screaming, crying and yelling at me for putting a box away this morning in the wrong spot is totally normal?

From what I've read… bi-polar is different from borderline in that a person whom is bi-polar will have "mania/manic" episodes… lasting days, weeks… as an example, take all the money out of the account… fly to Las Vegas, spend it all on fast woman, gambling, and booze… wont sleep, binges .. on whatever… and then they crash… and its "what have I done"…

Borderlines don't do the "mania/manic" thing… yes they will come unglued, and seem to not make sense in their behaviors, but it is not as long in duration or intensity as bi-polar… ie' the box in the cupboard… certainly not the end of the world… but it would seem as though it is by the reaction of our loved one... this is an anger issue, a maladaptive way they handle their emotions… feelings equal facts… read the nine-ten criterion of BPD…

I've also read that it is possible for a pw/BPD to have multiple diagnoses, perhaps narcissistic (npd)… or traits of histrionic… also mixed in ptsd/cptsd… borderline actually means "bordering on" all the "cluster "B's"… this is a tricky synopsis… there is much disagreement on this as I've come to learn, so don't "bank that"… but its what I've read… "borderline means bordering on, as in including parts of all"… best to read what is presented here, to start with.

Its all very interesting, but having to live in it, with a loved one, and to boot, if they are not diagnosed… and we the "non" are trying to figure it out on our own, shooting in the dark so to speak… that is the tuff part.

Just keep reading and learning… this is the best thing you can do… there is so much there to learn…

I'm not a "clinician"… all I can do is share what I've learned, and I may be way off base as well… here is a link(s) for you from this website.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-borderline-personality-disorder

https://bpdfamily.com/content/borderline-personality-disorder

One more thing… I don't remember if you said that your wife was diagnosed or not… if not, don't ever say to her, "dear, I think your a borderline"… no, don't ever do that… it wont go over good… I know it is very tempting… as in "hey, I've got it figured out, so now I can "fix" her"… no, it doesn't work that way… others here can expound further on this point…

… hang in there!

Red5

« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 10:49:05 AM by Red5 » Logged

“We are so used to our own history, we do not see it as remarkable or out of the ordinary, whereas others might see it as horrendous. Further, we tend to minimize that which we feel shameful about.” {Quote} Patrick J. Carnes / author,
Radcliff
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2019, 01:09:47 AM »

Thanks for sharing the positive aspects of your relationship.  Sometimes it helps everyone here to put those positive things out in the open to remind ourselves of why we're working to make our relationships better.

It is really tough when we hear or experience nice things, then when the tide turns, it all evaporates and we're told that they regret marrying us.  I'm sorry you're coping with that.  Many members have similar experiences.

No, you're not a bad husband, or as dense as she says.  You're doing a remarkable amount.  It can be easy to resent it, but I wanted to highlight something that you probably already know.  By regularly launching your kids to school and preparing dinner for them, you are connecting with them more often than many dads can, and are both nurturing them and setting a good example.

You mentioned needing better boundaries.  I'm thinking similarly that one of the keys here is making sure your lifestyle is sustainable, that you're recharging your batteries and taking care of yourself.  What are a couple of things that you want to be doing to help yourself be healthy and happy that you're not currently doing?

RC
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GingerJariHubs

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« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2019, 02:53:16 PM »

It's been a while since I posted, but it seems we are still in the same old, same old rut. Though I am worried that my uBPDw and I are both pulling away more and more from each other and she is getting colder and trusting me less and less (not deserved at all imho) and getting angry even quicker (if that is possible). I have done a good bit of reading on the site, and I am encouraged in some ways by the tools, resources and stories on the site.

I realize that I have allowed myself to be put into a role of codependency (I think - still learning more about that). I am afraid of my wife and/or have been so eager to please her and gain her approval that I have allowed her to walk all over me and given into her demands way too easily. I see that I have allowed resentment to build in my heart as the things she demands I do (which aren't bad things usually) are done not out of my own self-determination, but as a response to her extreme rage and desire for control. In essence, because of a good desire to show humility and teachability (and I have certainly had some immaturity that I have needed to address), I went too far and stopped standing up for myself and releasing my opinions/desires/feelings not willfully but out of resignation.

As I have done a lot of reading, I have seen some growth in myself that I am pulling away from her opinion of me and not judging myself based on how she sees me, but on what I know to be true. This means I have walled my heart off to her, which may have caused more issues for the time being as I do feel more cold to her and care less about what she has to say. I refuse to accept her version of who I am anymore (idiot, moron, worthless, disgusting, hopeless, etc..), though I struggle still since those words still bounce around in my head and it hurts to hear them still.

So... I want this to stop. It obviously won't happen immediately, but I want to put my foot down. I want to do this the right way. Obviously I need to keep learning, but I also need help. From you, from others (I have very few friends nowadays as my uBPDw's constant demands have made me feel like I couldn't take the time I needed to develop them well), from a counselor (trying to find a consistent one - man they are expensive!)

I think that a good start would be to validate my wife, of course, but mostly I need to set some boundaries and address some issues. I was reading about the DEARMAN tool, and ended up making a version of it for myself as if I was having a conversation with her. I would love your thoughts on it, and what I should/shouldn't say, and if it might be better to give it to her in written format, read it, or paraphrase it.

Please help. I've always been the optimist who thinks everything will work out okay, but I am really beginning to lose hope that this will ever get better outside the relationship ending, which I truly don't want.


DEARMAN


D (describe the situation) – This morning when we were getting in the car, you yelled at me. You blamed me for the position of the car being too close to the van, and so you took out your frustration on being hurt by getting into the car on me and you were rude and disrespectful. You also did this in front of our daughter. You accused me of not listening and not caring. You said I was hopeless. You demanded rather than asked for an apology. You interrupted me even as I was apologizing and assumed you knew what I was going to say. You accused me of not listening to you in regards to where you wanted me to put the stuff in the van. While I could have benefited from asking where you wanted it to begin with, I did actually listen and change where I put things based exactly on what you said (didn’t want them in the trunk, and the gifts specifically between the seats – requests which I did, just not the front seats like you meant – which is fine to want, but was not actually said).

E (explain your feelings) – I feel really hurt and disrespected by your yelling. I feel like you violated my boundaries and were attempting to control me. I felt like I was put in a lose-lose scenario with no opportunity to show care. I feel very misunderstood as my actions that morning were all motivated out of love, care, and a desire to get out of the door in a timely manner. I took the initiative to help rather than stand around like I have been accused of before. I helped gather items, I brought stuff out to the car, and I got a water for you (which I told you about while we were inside, and you acknowledged with an “okay”). When you asked me to not put the stuff in the trunk, I moved it and when you asked for the gifts to be between the seats, I also put them between the girls’ seats. I feel angry that you accused me of not caring and not listening. I feel violated that you insist on me agreeing that I don’t care about you, when the opposite is true. While I certainly could grow in learning you and what/how you want things done, and asking you rather than just doing “whatever I want”, I do not appreciate you telling what my motivations were or were not.
 
A (assert your needs or say no) – I don’t want you to yell at me ever again or accuse me of not caring or not listening to you. I find it disrespectful, rude, and damaging. In the future, if you approach me by lashing out at me, accusing me, calling me names, swearing at me, I will remove myself from the situation until such a time as you are willing to speak to me in a manner that shows common human dignity and respect.
 
R (remind of reward)– I really care about you, and I care about knowing if there are things I have done to offend you. While I am still learning (and have a long way to go) to always respond quickly with empathy and to be careful of my defensiveness due to my own struggles with self worth, I find it a million times MORE challenging to show you the care and empathy you want when I am the recipient of your uncontrolled anger and rage. While it is hard for me to see you angry at me, I want you to know that it is okay and that you are allowed to feel angry, hurt, frustrated, disappointed, etc in me. I actually do WANT to know if I have hurt you and what you would request for me to do in the future to avoid such situations. It doesn’t have to always be like this, and we both play a part in it. If I don’t play my part and I fail to be approachable, then we lose, but if you fail to do your part and approach me in a healthy way, we are doomed to repeat the same cycle. You can’t control me and demand that I care, but you can respectfully ask, and I promise you that I will care (it may take me a bit to figure out how to communicate that well – and for that I am truly sorry I am not better at it).

M (mindfully stay in focus) – I want to affirm to you that I love you and I care about your desires and your heart. I see it hurting, lonely, anxious, weary, frustrated, etc., and all I want to do is scoop it up, give it a hug and tell it that it will all be okay. I see how my own sin, personality, immaturity, fear, and ADHD all make for a very challenging living environment for you as I regularly add to the chaos of life. I care so much about you that I do work very hard to avoid adding to chaos, and I do so out of love and care for you and a desire to bless you. I obviously still remain thoughtless, forgetful, and emotionally distant in the midst of that… and for that I am sorry… but it is not because I don’t care. That’s not the heart of it, but I am willing to continue to pursue the heart of my struggles and own them and put them before the Lord and set reasonable goals to overcome them.

A (Appear confident) – I have to confess and repent of a heart issue that I have realized about myself - and that is that I am/was afraid of you and have allowed my actions to be dictated by how you respond or how I am afraid you will respond. Ever since we first started a relationship, I have been enamored with you and have unhealthily placed too much of my self-worth upon your opinion of me. I knew I was a mess and had a lot to learn, and so eagerly (as eager as one can be when eating humble pie) allowed myself to try to please you, to accept criticism and be controlled by your desires and efforts to change me and help me grow. While there are certainly many things I have needed to grow in, I have been motivated by fear of how you will respond to me, and so I have tried to bend over backwards to accommodate you and made promises I could never keep and never had internal motivations to persevere in. I felt I had no choice or I would be accused of not loving you. I felt forced to apologize many times when I truly felt like I had done nothing wrong – and that I had to abandon my own thoughts, perspective, feelings and self-respect in order to placate you and show I was humble. I don’t think this has been a healthy dynamic and I believe it needs to end. I will NOT be afraid of you anymore. I will make my decisions based on free-will and not because I allow myself to be controlled by you. I will set boundaries of what I am and am not okay with in my life, and I will stick with them. When I agree to do something, it will be because I want to do it (which may mean doing something I wouldn't enjoy, but will do it because I care about you and how much it might mean to you – I just don’t want to do it because you demand that we HAVE to or am afraid of disappointing you). I will pursue you in our marriage because I WANT to, and I will start sharing my life with you openly because I will in faith trust that you actually want to know who I really am, and will accept me (warts and all) for who I am and that any changes you want to see in me that you will bring those requests first to the Lord and then appropriately to me.

N (Negotiate to give so you can get) – I want to know in the midst of all that I have said here, how I can continue to show you love? If there are boundaries that you feel I am violating, I would love for you to possibly write some or all of them down (what it is that you value, and as a result what it is that you won’t be okay with, and what your response will be), so that I can be more conscientious about them, and also be aware of what kind of response I can expect from you. It would help me understand more clearly how I have offended you, and hopefully as a result help us as I can quicker and more competently show empathy and care for time I cross your boundaries. If it would help, I would also love to talk with you about the practical areas of household management and what they entail to clarify what we are responsible for as well and so I can tell you what I truly am willing to commit to. I am willing to do my absolute best when I see you upset to try and validate you and show you care, even if you are yelling at me, and to remind myself of there is a reason behind your actions. If I can’t seem to find the right words or am not in a place to weather the outpouring of your anger and/or accusations, I will excuses myself (not because I don’t care about you, but because I also care about protecting my heart so that I can also ultimately be the best husband I can be to you – even if that does take me time to process).




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GingerJariHubs

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 5


« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2019, 02:34:55 PM »

bump.

Any thoughts or feedback on the DEARMAN?

Thanks
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Ozzie101
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1915



« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2019, 02:57:56 PM »

Hey Ginger,

You've poured a lot into that and I'm sure it feels good to get it out there -- even if you haven't shared it with your wife yet. I know journaling usually helps me.

That said, I'm not sure I would share that with her as it is. For one thing, it's a LOT and may be overwhelming to her. Also, a lot of what is there, while it may be true, could also feel very much like an attack to her and is unlikely to bring positive results. She's more likely to get defensive and not hear what you have to say.

You don't even have to lay it out for her in order to put your foot down. Sometimes little things like, when she starts ranting, saying something like "I can see this is very important to you but I can't address it fully when I'm being put down. I'm going to go out for a drive for 30 minutes. I hope we can discuss it calmly when I get back and come up with a solution." Then leave. Standing your ground in small ways while still remaining calm, empathetic and validating isn't easy, but it can make a difference.

Excerpt
As I have done a lot of reading, I have seen some growth in myself that I am pulling away from her opinion of me and not judging myself based on how she sees me, but on what I know to be true. This means I have walled my heart off to her, which may have caused more issues for the time being as I do feel more cold to her and care less about what she has to say.

I applaud you for reaffirming a more positive vision of yourself. But be wary of walling off your heart. I started to do that with my H and it did make our situation worse. He could pick up on the distance, which made him even more insecure and increased his lashing out. It was pointed out to me by friends here that closing off, while natural, is one step towards ending the relationship. Do you want to continue the relationship? If so, we might want to address the increasing coldness.
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Greenbrier

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 13


« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2019, 11:52:35 AM »

Excerpt
I am not shirking responsibility in my household, and I don't think a single person in the world could call me lazy. Yet despite all of this, my wife consistently tells me that she has to do all the work at home

This could be me.  I feel your pain here.  My wife is always saying this, despite facts to the contrary.  I clean up after every meal.  You can walk through any room in the house and I can point out where I installed a light or door or blinds, or caulked, or painted, or patched drywall, or fixed a faucet.  In addition I work long hours, and carry all the bills.  I pay for laundry service and lawn maintenance to be done (so that we have an immaculate lawn and she doesn’t have to touch clothes except to put them away).  She takes full credit for her gardening, yet I’ve planted nearly every rose or shrub you can see.  I’ve repaired pavement, cut down trees, built the mailbox, and on and on.  For most of the last 15 years I’ve taken the kids to school.  I walk her dog every morning, rain or shine.

If she feels something needs to be done, however minor, then to her it is a “drop everything now!” emergency.  I generally have learned to just do it, and quickly; but sometimes I’m busy, or I say I’ll do it later and then forget (I may also have a touch of ADHD—I have learned too late the wonders of utilizing to-do lists and calendars).  This incurs much wrath.  If I (heaven forbid) argue that it doesn’t need to be done, then the full torrent is unleashed: “Try complaining to anyone that your wife wouldn’t do your man job for you, you big lazy baby.”

Even when I do the thing, I still get grief:
"So what? What is your immediate reaction when I ask you to do something? Is it joy?”  [I’ll be honest, here—uh, no] “You *always* sigh, or tell me that the thing doesn't need to be done, or else it takes you forever to do it."  (I’d say it’s *rarely* the case but these are the occasions she remembers—all else is discounted).

She will subsequently say that this once again opens a window to my rotten, selfish interior.  She says I don’t love her.  She accuses me of loyalty to my mom, and that I’m hostile to any suggestion of work from her because “my reasonable demand reminds you of her unreasonable demands, so your knee jerk reaction is to reject it.  You can’t say no to her but you sure can say no to me.”

But I will say from personal experience that arguing, out of my (not unreasonable) emotional irritation at being falsely accused,  got me nowhere.  I once even made a list of all the DIY projects I have done.  The list didn’t “win” the argument, only triggered more anger.  But it helped me.  Having that list reassured me of my own reality. 

At the end, I don’t know what to tell you here.  I will probably go to my grave as the “lazy guy who didn’t do anything around the house.”  But I know better, and winning the battle inside my own head—not getting bowled over by distortion of reality—is important.

I found these comment by another poster, Gemsforeyes, to be enlightening:
Excerpt
Still, it’s exhausing to twist yourself inside out trying to make, or keep a BPD loved one “happy”, when they themself have no clue where that happiness lies.  It’s somewhere in that black hole of emptiness.  There is a saying... “don’t set yourself on fire to keep another person warm”.  I try to keep this in mind when dealing with my uBPDbf. 
... Please also do some reading on (and active practice of) Self-Care.  Keep in mind that you are not your W’s employee regardless of the list of chores she had made for you.
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