Quiet BPD wife recently diagnosed.

[mikeswifebpd]

I married a girl 10 years ago that I thought was my soulmate.  I had never met a girl I had so much in common with, or at least thought we had in common.  Over the years of being married she has done some very bizarre things; draining my bank account on several occasions (she always promised to help with my business, but has never worked at all), going on dating sites, habitually lying over little things, and many other unconscionable things.  I have put up with these things because I care for very much, and she has always promised to never do it again.  Christmas Eve we went to a get together at her mom's house and I left first and came home.  After about 3 hours I texted her to find out where she was, she texted back and said she was at a bar with her son and was on her way home.  This made no sense since she never goes to bars.  On Christmas morning I looked at her phone records and she had been texting her son which she said she was at the bar with the whole time she had been missing.  I confronted her about this and she told me she wasn't at a bar, she went and met with a guy she dated in high school who was having problems.  After she told me this she just walked off like no big deal.  I went and told her we need to talk.  She told me in an excited tone of voice she went to visit with a boyfriend from high school (25 years ago), she could fall in love with him, they had not had sex but would if they continued seeing each other and she had no plans of stop seeing him.  They had been messaging each other on Facebook for the last 2 weeks and she went and met with  him.  She also told me she had been planning on leaving me for 3 months, which I had no clue.  The previous 3 months nothing had changed, she still told me she loved me, our sex life was still good, I literally had no clue she was even unhappy.  I was devastated and she just went back upstairs to continue cooking Christmas dinner.  She was happy about her new love, I was devastated and she had no empathy.  She went to her family's house for Christmas dinner and I stayed home devastated.  When she got home we talked some more and she told me it didn't make sense the guy from high school "John" had been telling her he loved her his whole life, but never mentioned it before.  Actually they hadn't seen each other in 25 years.  My wife told me John had removed his Facebook page because his ex girlfriend was causing a lot of problems for him.  My wife showed me a picture of John on his ex girlfriends Facebook page.  So I messaged his John's ex girlfriend on Facebook and told her what happened and asked if John would pursue a married woman.  The ex girlfriend messaged me back and said through counseling she found out John is a text book narcissist, he is married and his wife lives with him only part of the time.  She said he is a very toxic person and had pursued her while she was married, and does this with many girls he went to high school with to boost his ego.  When I showed my wife his ex girlfriends message she said she felt like a fool, and no longer cared for John.  I asked how she could just stop caring for someone and she said she can do that.  My wife also told me she realized how much I cared for her by how much it hurt me.  We agreed to go to counseling, and got separate counselors and would later get together as a couple with both counselors.  I had written a detailed list of everything my wife had done which I gave to my counselor.  My counselor read the list and handed me her DSM for BPD and I said everything fits except difficulty controlling anger.  My wife was diagnosed with Quiet BPD, and the psychiatrist prescribed Lamictal.  My wife feels like she found the problem and is working on it with her counselor, but unlike her I can't just bury the devastation she cause me.  I have been a basket case since Christmas and am not sure what to do.  On one hand I love my wife very much, but don't see how I will ever be able to trust her again.  I have read "Stop Walking on Eggshells", "I Hate You don't Leave Me", and "Psychotherapy Of The Quiet Borderline Patient".  I now realize the reason I felt like I found my soulmate is because my wife, read me and played the perfect part when we first met.  I also realize she can turn her love on and off, and I am just an interchangeable object which she needs to fill the void from not having a sense of self.  I can be replaced with another guy or girl, with little to no emotional pain for her.  And all the pain she has caused me are just tests to make sure I will not leave her.  From talking to her (she has talked to me more since this happened) she has been like this for as long as she can remember.  I am stuck in confusion as to whether I should just leave or try to work this out which seems impossible, and I continually wonder how bad the next test will be.           

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Ozzie101]

Welcome, mikeswifeBPD! 

It sounds like you're dealing with a lot of emotional turmoil, which is understandable given the circumstances. Relationships with pwBPD can be bewildering whirlwinds. And it's so painful to be betrayed and to feel like a replaceable object to people we love.

It's good that you're both seeing counselors -- many pwBPD never get to that point.

You've found a strong support group here that can help with tips, advice, or just listening while you try to sort things out.

Do you have any idea of what steps you want to take? An area of your relationship that stands out as something you want to improve?

[mikeswifebpd]

Thanks for the reply, Ozzie.
Currently I am still in the confusion phase.  My main fear is she will do it again, but worse.  My counselor is advising me not to make any long term decisions at this time.  I would like to have a loving, trusting relationship with my wife, but at this point I don't know that is possible.

[Ozzie101]

I would agree with your therapist at this point. That's a big decision and it's usually not a good idea to make those when your emotions are bouncing around.

Establishing a loving, trusting relationship can definitely take time. I haven't had to deal with that sort of situation as far as trust but I have recently been in a very difficult place with my H. Making an effort to communicate and to keep up the physical affection ended up helping a LOT.

What are some ways you and your wife connect?

[mikeswifebpd]

Since this has happened it has been easier to talk to my wife.  I have always tried my best to communicate with her, although she has not been very good at communication.  I have always given her a hug or let her know I am there for her.  She has taken normal conversations as me attacking her, but is doing better now from counseling.  I also try to get her to do things with me.  I have found that people with BPD need a lot of reassurance that you are there for them. 

[A Scot abroad]

Hey I have been through the love bombing, cheating and discard without a care.  I couldnt walk away and now after 20 years of marriage realise without acceptance my spouse will not change.  What has changed is my acceptance of this, its crushing at first to realise however there is a need to take care of ourselves first.  Sounds selfish, and difficult.  The only person we can change is ourselves.

Good luck

[mikeswifebpd]

Thanks for your response, A Scot abroad

I think my major problem is the fact I do realize she will not change, and I am not sure I can accept that.  From her gas-lighting and stonewalling I have felt very confused for a long time.  I understand she has BPD and it is very hard on her, but I can't continue to be a replaceable object to her.  The black and white thinking, the mood swings because she is not sure if she is going to be abandoned, and the unconscionable things she does to me to test my love.  I agree we need to take care of ourselves first and I have been trying to remember that.

Good luck to you also!

[Radcliff]

I agree with your therapist and Ozzie101 that there's a lot going on, and this is a good time to take things slowly.  Part of figuring out whether we can live long term in a relationship with a pwBPD is developing good boundaries.  What kinds of unconscionable things does she do?  What are some of the more painful day-to-day things you're coping with?

RC

[mikeswifebpd]

Hi RC,
Some of the unconscionable things she has done; I caught her sending naked pictures of herself to guys she met on dating sites, there were times she would spend $5,000 in a week and not know what she did with it, my dad had a stroke and I moved him in with us - she forged a check out of his checking account, she promised if I bought a house she would help me with my business, she said "so we would make twice as much" that was 2010 and she has done noting to help and blamed it on me, when my dad passed away he left me a $25,000 life insurance policy which I deposited in my personal account - she spent it in two and a half months (most of her overspending is buying her kids anything they want), she came to me and said she found a girl on Craigslist to have a threesome with us (I am not into that and she knows it), she has went through periods where she refuses to talk to me, stonewalls me and uses gas-lighting she, in conversations about anything she says she always feels like I am attacking her, after we got married her drivers license expired and she wouldn't get it renewed which we had several arguments about after 6 years I called the DMV and they told me she had fines that would need to be paid before she could get her drivers license - she finally admitted she had fines for embezzlement, & DUI and needed to take the DUI class to get her license back.  I totaled up her spending once and she averaged wasting between $45,000 and $50,000 a year without having a job.  Christmas Day she excitedly told me she had found someone else and I was devastated.  She had an emotional affair on Facebook with someone from high school 25 years ago, and met with him on Christmas Eve, later telling me he manipulated her by telling her he had always been in love with her and she felt like a fool.  This is by far the worst thing she could have done to me.   

[Radcliff]

Wow, that's a long list.  I'm sorry to hear about all of that damage.  Folks like us who are involved with pwBPD often have terrible boundaries.  Or no boundaries!  Take a look at this page on setting boundaries.  Boundaries describe what we do to protect ourselves.  We can't try to control the other person and can't count on their behaviors to change.  In order to get good at them, we have to turn our attention to our own behaviors.  This may not sound attractive, but the awesome thing is that we can be successful at strategies that only require us to change ourselves.  It doesn't make things "all better," but it really works to make things better.

The infidelity and dating site behavior is tough.  How did you respond?

Have you made any financial changes to help protect the money you're earning for your family from being misused?

RC

[A Scot abroad]

Mike, it sounds like we are not far off in relation to our spouses, I am less puzzled these days and learning to accept, stand on my own two feet after learning about codependancy, denial being a big challenge, that longing for love that I never got as a child. 

RC and Ozzie 101 have great advice and are further down the road than me for sure, seeming to rise above with an emotional detachment that gives protection against the buffeting winds of the disorder.  Boundaries are important, Im wide open and put everyone elses needs first, I'm learning to change that though change does not come easy.

Gaining skills like in the books you mention, opening up and reaching out (this is new for me) help me greatly.

Hang in there, this too shall pass

[mikeswifebpd]

RC,
Thanks for the link to setting boundaries.

Catching her on dating sites was very upsetting, but her telling me on Christmas Day she had found someone else was devastating.  The day after Christmas she tells me she knew she loved me from me being so hurt on Christmas.  We started counseling right after Christmas and this is when my wife was diagnosed with BPD.  My therapist told me BPD's do this type of thing as a test; they push you away and do very hurtful things to see if you will stay with them, because in their mind you will leave them.

I have put a $300.00 a day limit on the debit card I let her use, and check my bank account everyday.

Currently it is a double edge sword; my heart is telling me to stay and my brain is telling me to run.


 

[Ozzie101]

Mike, it's good that you're putting some safeguards in place regarding your finances. I know one thing some people do is create a separate, private account for "emergency funds." Something to think about.

And I know exactly what you mean about the head and the heart saying different things. I went through a similar confusion about a month ago. It really is hard to know what to do. That's why, in situations like that, it's best to sort of step back (not easy) and not make any big decisions. Think things through. You don't want to do a big thing badly.

Boundaries are key and are something I struggle with, to be sure. As Scot said, I, too, tend to put everyone else's needs first to the point that I'm not really sure what my needs are. My therapist and my husband's therapist have both pointed this out to me, that I need to work on that. I think it's something many of us have in common!

[mikeswifebpd]

A Scot abroad,
Sorry you are going through this, from experiencing it first hand I know it is hard.  And I am glad to hear you are making progress.  Do you think it is possible to have a somewhat normal marriage with a pwBPD?  My wife is in counseling and she is starting to understand why she has problems in relationships, but my fear is she will do it again and it will be worse.  From the research I have done:
I am married to an actor who knows the part well of being my perfect soulmate.  She can keep secrets for years without me knowing.  She is incapable of love or being loved but needs me near to provide a role for her.  At anytime I could be replaced by another person, and she would not feel pain.  She lacks identity, true empathy, and has a poorly developed superego; which explains her lack of morals, values and good judgement.  She can make impulse decisions that are detrimental to me and show no remorse, unless she acts the part.  She needs me to avoid aloneness but avoids intimacy because it confuses her.  She is incapable of having a conversation about herself, because she doesn’t know who she is.  Her thinking is black and white only.  

[A Scot abroad]

Hey Mike,

I read in an article that if your spouse is willing to accept and work on it, there is a chance for improved relations. At least your wife is in counseling, thats a start.

In my experience my wife goes through the motions of counseling on and off, however its usually with an agenda to manipulate some outcome not the real work of change.  The one seemingly authentic moment we had with a therapist, when put on the spot was "but its hard".  The first step to change is coming out of denial, and that goes both ways.

Yeah thats a fair description of my experience over 20 years.  I'll add to that projection, gaslighting, triangulation.  The sense that Im interchangeable, after getting past the initial sadness gave me some solace in the event I leave.

Us "nice guys" have our work cut out, to take care of our own needs, express our feelings, connect with our emotions.  It does not come natural for me.

Hope you have a great weekend

[mikeswifebpd]

A Scot abroad,

My wife has been in and out of counseling for several years, before she was diagnosed with BPD.  After her affair I wrote a list of things my wife had done to me, and she agreed with all the things.  At our initial intake the counselor went over the list, later my counselor told me my wife had been diagnosed with quite BPD.  I had no clue what BPD was, but after my counselor explained it to me my wife fit perfectly.

My wife has used  projection, gaslighting, triangulation, and stonewalling.  At times after a conversation with her I would be confused and feel like I was going insane.

Setting borders and putting myself first does not come easy to me either.

Hope you have a great weekend also!   

[Radcliff]

Your description of your situation is detailed, insightful, and familiar.  Every pwBPD and every relationship is different.  Time will tell whether things can improve.  I agree with Ozzie101 to take your time.  You can only control your half of the relationship.  Learn the tools that are taught here so you can be sure that you're bringing your best game.

Reading about the tools is one thing, but putting them into practice is another thing entirely.  It's messy and involves a lot of trial and error.  That's where this community can help.  Do you have any thoughts on a situation or two where you'd want to develop better boundaries?

RC

[mikeswifebpd]

Hi Radcliff,

I don't lie, cheat or steal and would like my wife to treat me with the same values.  From the beginning of our relationship, I have told my wife how important it is not to have infidelity in our relationship.  I explained to her that my last marriage ended because my ex wife had an affair, and I couldn't get passed it.

From past experience with my wife when she does something to hurt me the intensity just gets worse with the next time she does it.  Example: The first time she went on a spending spree she only spent around $500.00, the last spending spree she went on she spent around $6,000.00.  When she first started the spending sprees (with my money) I would talk to her and try to explain we can't afford to do this.  After a while we had big arguments over her spending sprees.  I finally put a limit on the debit card she uses, and check the bank account everyday.  If I am honest I feel like me putting a limit on the debit card was part of the reason she had the affair.  So with example currently she has had an emotional affair and says she doesn't know why.  What do I have to look forward to next?  If it is like the past things she has done repeatedly and got worse; I fear the next time it will be a lot worse and she will continue having affairs.  Currently I have zero trust in her.

[Codepanda19]

mikeswifeBPD, sounds rough. As someone in the throes of things myself, I feel your pain and the mistrust you have and the feeling of "was it ever real?". I can feel the conflict of staying when all your impulses are telling you it's no use.

I don't think she's an actor. I think she has real feelings for you. I think pwBPD mirror the personalities of their SO because of a lack of identity of their own which makes that initial connection so profound. And I think when they are thinking about other things (like John), they don't have the object constancy to take a wholistic view of you at the same time.

You have a few things going for you. You're both in therapy and you have the diagnosis. This is a big step. From what I've read, the success rates for pwBPD who stick with therapy are really good and the symptoms tend to get less severe with time.

When we get upset, I sometimes wonder if we fall prey to the same "black and white" thinking regarding our SO's.

[mikeswifebpd]

Codepanda19,

I am sorry to hear you are going through this also.

Her lack of Object Constancy is what worries me.  Since the affair and realizing she has BPD, I fear she will meet someone else, idolize that person, have an affair and forget I exist while doing so. 

You bring up a good point "When we get upset, I sometimes wonder if we fall prey to the same "black and white" thinking regarding our SO's".  I know I have done this before, being very upset and saying there is no way this will work and meaning it.  Subsequently, after calming down feeling completely different.

[Sandb2015]

mikeswifeBPD,

I feel the same thing when I get on edge, ruminate, stress the F out!  I keep trying to wait to come to conclusions after I calm down or self soothe, that is the my best emotional course of action.

Try Ted Talk, Emotional mastery, Dr. Joan Rosenberg---------amazing and extremely helpful.

It's when the water starts to boil and burn, I want it to stop, the pain, hurt, anxiety etc., perhaps the pwBPD does the same but we, the non can see other side, perspectives which prevents us from "jumping".  I'm understanding we have the choice of gray as the non and I think with the grey comes our base...I want that base, there is comfort there.

[Radcliff]

You're getting some great support here from Sandb2015 and Codepanda19.

I don't lie, cheat or steal and would like my wife to treat me with the same values.  

Not only are truthfulness and honesty your values, they're crucial to a healthy relationship.  It's certainly understandable that you want this, and its absence is so painful.  Hit that link on setting boundaries.  The thing about boundaries is that they're not about controlling someone else's actions.  This may seem disappointing, but think about how spectacularly unsuccessful trying to control our pwBPD's actions usually is.  After reading that page on boundaries, are there any new areas where you think you could get a bit of relief by instituting boundaries?

From the beginning of our relationship, I have told my wife how important it is not to have infidelity in our relationship.  I explained to her that my last marriage ended because my ex wife had an affair, and I couldn't get passed it.

Her inability to manage and satisfy her own needs may make it difficult for her to understand and be mindful of yours.  This can be awfully hard on you, and is one of the toughest aspects of BPD relationships.  I'm sorry; it can be pretty awful.

RC

[A Scot abroad]

Thanks for the article on setting boundaries Radcliff.  Likewise to Sandb2015 on the ted talk.  Good stuff.

Mike, I recall the 'At times after a conversation with her I would be confused and feel like I was going insane.' stage.  I was isolated then, socializing broke that spell for me, opening up to friends and family.  This too shall pass.

All the best

[mikeswifebpd]

Radcliff,

I appreciate the link!  My wife has known my values since we first met.  She was a master during the idealization phase of having the same values and morals, or at least I thought.  Little did I know she was just acting a part of my soulmate.  My counselor feels my wife steps over the boundaries, as a test to make sure I will not leave her.  For years my wife has consistently lied and stole from me, each time getting a little worse, and each time her promising to never do it again.  With that said, I feel if she gets away with the first affair there will be more to come.  My counselor has advised me not to make a decision on leaving while I am this confused so I won't.  But, to me an affair is the worst thing a spouse can do, and the worst boundary she could have crossed. 

[mikeswifebpd]

A Scot abroad,

Thanks for your post.  I do think socializing with other people would help.  For some time I have isolated from people due to my state of mind.

[Radcliff]

A Scot abroad makes a great point about socializing.  I let myself get isolated as well.  Can you think of any opportunities to make improvements in that area?

RC

[mikeswifebpd]

RC,
In the past I was into mountain biking.  I have recently contacted some of my friends who mountain bike, and we have plans to go hit the trails today.

[Radcliff]

That sounds great!  How was the mountain biking?

The one time I went mountain biking, I went with two very experienced friends.  I borrowed a friend's bike.  It was the first time I'd ever used clip-in pedals.  They went into a place called "the bowl," where there's a short steep downhill, a flat part, and then a super steep short uphill.  I learned later that you need to not brake on the downhill and pedal like a banshee to make it up the other side.  Lacking this knowledge, I ended up stalling halfway up the uphill part, not being able to unclip one of my feet, then sliding downhill on my back, holding my friend's bike in the air to protect it from damage.  That left a mark!  I hope your biking day was better than that! 

RC

[mikeswifebpd]

RC,
Sorry for the late response.  Mountain biking was fun, I have went a few times now with my old friends.   I have fell over more than once because of clip-in-pedals.  But, after you get used to them they really are a benefit.

[Radcliff]

Thanks for the update!  I'm glad to hear that you're connecting with buddies.  That's huge.  How are things going with your wife?

RC