Requesting help, and advice, trying to reconcille.

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello, so its time I guess, it’s going to be long haul from here… I won’t go into the whole long drawn out story… but a brief status report of what I'm dealing with.

My wife and I separated towards the end of November this year, resultant from herself, and my S33 autistic son being in a confrontation, he was taking too long in the bathroom that morning… it turned physical, and the last straw was when she punched him in his head three times… big fight, big blowout extinction burst and dysregulation between me and her resultant… and she moved out, after I told her me and the boy would if she didn't.

Long history fraught with much fighting, verbal, emotional, and mental abusive behaviors over the past eleven years, eight married… and yes, there were several incidents between me and her of physical incidents… all bad, all dysfunctional… terrible.

So she has been gone now for over three months, she has rented her own place about fifteen minutes away… I've not seen her since, only a few phone calls, and texts messages, and a few emails.

She is very angry, and blames me for all of it… so to get to the BLUF here, I don't want a divorce, been there done that, both of us (we are both early fifties in age)… long long stories... no, I want to try and rebuild 'us'… to somehow reconcile all this mess…

So yesterday, I called her, and told her our dog, who will be fifteen this year, had a stroke, or something, and was not doing well, "just wanted you to know"… she cried a little, and told me she wanted to see him before I 'put him down"… which I'm not… as he's slowly recovering to some degree... he’s our beloved “old man” of the house.

So before I hung up, as I did not want to trigger her… I let her ask me about taxes… and then a short conversation in regards to that… then she ask me how the kids were doing, she is 'step mom' they are all grown and gone, as hers are as well… just my autistic Son lives with me (us)… then she made some remark about S33(a), and then another about "what have I been doing to fix up the house"… and I stopped her, and I said "I want to say something"… "you may not like it"… "but here goes"…

I said… "I love you “Q”, what happened was total and complete bull$hit… I should have never let you move out… we should have taken this straight to the Pastor… you are my wife, we are married, your 'butt' belongs with me, you need to stop this, we need to stop this, and you need to get your @ss back home now where you belong (I've now lost my mindfulness, and I'm starting to get a little too tough with her)… I continued as I drove to work… "when people have problems, they fix them, they work them out… we don't quit… I love you, and I failed you, and I am I'm sorry, now can we please take the first steps down the road to fixing this marriage"… "ok”,”that's all I got”, "I mean it, it's been three months now, and I've not even seen you… you belong with me “Q”, we need to see a therapist, a counselor, perhaps via Pastor "P"… I'm not going to ever divorce you, you are my wife, in the eyes of God",

She started to yell at me, I stopped her again, "listen, stop it”… “you told me before we got married that you have a temper, now that has split us apart, and I'll accept my 50% of that… but I'm your husband, and I'm telling you right now, we need to get some help, and get this right once and for all"… "I love you "Q",now,good bye"…

And that was it, until late last night, she called me back… and let me have it… I won’t spill all that out now… but her last text she sent this morning, after we went from the phone to mssg… was this:

...""Love no longer matters. We are at polar opposites on how to handle "J" (S33 autistic) and
constantly fight about it. You win. I refuse to fight anymore. Do what you want.
I'm staying out of it. You can decide what is best with your buddy Mrs. "G" (S33's mentor after school).""…

You know, she's mad, angry, and totally piss'ed off at me, at the world, at everything… BPD.

So I figured, it’s been three bloody months now, and nothing but vinegar from her, so what's it going to hurt… so I put my cards on the table… yes, she reacted badly, defensively, as I knew she would, but this is her 'language'... she communicates with anger, in anger… so at least she knows what I 'feel' now… I did get her to admit that she misses me… but, she said she doesn't know if she loves me… which I don't believe, and I told her that was total bravo sierra… for her to even say that… BPD,

She went high and right on me last night, but I didn't fight back, I just told her I loved her, and that certainly I have participated in the damage, .. and that no, hitting is not ok, no matter who's doing it, or why… she continued to scream at me .. until it went to texts… this is the last thing I texted back to her last night…

•   If perhaps one day I do by some miracle... lure you back here as my wife,
I’ll have to practice what is called radical acceptance... and as well learn and employ daily... even perhaps hourly... many new relationship tools in order to validate your anger towards me... what is
called cognitive and dialectical thinking... you will need to feel safe, connected, secure, and you will need to feel unwavering trust in me... I must never invoke or else trigger any fear of abandonment or
uncontrolled engulfment towards you... much still to learn... I’ve done so much damage... not being mindful...  or thinking clearly… but acting out in anger, reacting to you... which has been vividly reinforced as your truth in tonights texts... know that I love you... it is my hope and prayer that one day I may win your love back once more. I have to give it to God now, there is nothing more I could effect, or do, I’ve hurt you too deeply for too long... I let empathy fade away into apathy... I gave up... I don’t deserve anything from you... I need to stop making it worse...

She replied simply “Yup”…

So what have I done, have I started a small fire in her heart, she is soo angry, so filled with tempest spirit…

Tough… hurtful… I thought I couldn’t be hurt so deeply again, by a woman, but she has succeeded in doing so…

Why can’t she just live here with me and my autistic son in peace, and leave him to me… I don’t understand, why does she go after him, this has been the main source of conflict between us for years now…

I have all her history, and firsthand accounts from her own two adult children as well, and both foo BIL's… there is no doubt, she has been like this her whole adult life… it’s like she has a ‘hole in her soul’… as I heard on a radio show the other day.

I have started to learn the tools here, and guidelines to a much more concentrated degree (thanks Skip), in hopes that, if she does, one day try to resume this marriage with me, in this home, in this life… with me… and as well my life long responsibility of that of my special needs son, then I’ll be ready… and maybe things will be quite different… this is my hope, my prayer.

*Now add, she was dx with stage iv rcc (cancer) in two thousand sixteen…

Thoughts, advice welcome… this is day #1 of “trying again”, so far it’s just me here in the wheelhouse as far as I know…

Thanks for listening, Red5

[Red5]

Hello, so its time I guess, it’s going to be long haul from here… I won’t go into the whole long drawn out story… but a brief status report of what I'm dealing with.

My wife and I separated towards the end of November this year, resultant from herself, and my S33 autistic son being in a confrontation, he was taking too long in the bathroom that morning… it turned physical, and the last straw was when she punched him in his head three times… big fight, big blowout extinction burst and dysregulation between me and her resultant… and she moved out, after I told her me and the boy would if she didn't.

Long history fraught with much fighting, verbal, emotional, and mental abusive behaviors over the past eleven years, eight married… and yes, there were several incidents between me and her of physical incidents… all bad, all dysfunctional… terrible.

So she has been gone now for over three months, she has rented her own place about fifteen minutes away… I've not seen her since, only a few phone calls, and texts messages, and a few emails.

She is very angry, and blames me for all of it… so to get to the BLUF here, I don't want a divorce, been there done that, both of us (we are both early fifties in age)… long long stories... no, I want to try and rebuild 'us'… to somehow reconcile all this mess…

So yesterday, I called her, and told her our dog, who will be fifteen this year, had a stroke, or something, and was not doing well, "just wanted you to know"… she cried a little, and told me she wanted to see him before I 'put him down"… which I'm not… as he's slowly recovering to some degree... he’s our beloved “old man” of the house.

So before I hung up, as I did not want to trigger her… I let her ask me about taxes… and then a short conversation in regards to that… then she ask me how the kids were doing, she is 'step mom' they are all grown and gone, as hers are as well… just my autistic Son lives with me (us)… then she made some remark about S33(a), and then another about "what have I been doing to fix up the house"… and I stopped her, and I said "I want to say something"… "you may not like it"… "but here goes"…

I said… "I love you “Q”, what happened was total and complete bull$hit… I should have never let you move out… we should have taken this straight to the Pastor… you are my wife, we are married, your 'butt' belongs with me, you need to stop this, we need to stop this, and you need to get your @ss back home now where you belong (I've now lost my mindfulness, and I'm starting to get a little too tough with her)… I continued as I drove to work… "when people have problems, they fix them, they work them out… we don't quit… I love you, and I failed you, and I am I'm sorry, now can we please take the first steps down the road to fixing this marriage"… "ok”,”that's all I got”, "I mean it, it's been three months now, and I've not even seen you… you belong with me “Q”, we need to see a therapist, a counselor, perhaps via Pastor "P"… I'm not going to ever divorce you, you are my wife, in the eyes of God",

She started to yell at me, I stopped her again, "listen, stop it”… “you told me before we got married that you have a temper, now that has split us apart, and I'll accept my 50% of that… but I'm your husband, and I'm telling you right now, we need to get some help, and get this right once and for all"… "I love you "Q",now,good bye"…

And that was it, until late last night, she called me back… and let me have it… I won’t spill all that out now… but her last text she sent this morning, after we went from the phone to mssg… was this:

...""Love no longer matters. We are at polar opposites on how to handle "J" (S33 autistic) and
constantly fight about it. You win. I refuse to fight anymore. Do what you want.
I'm staying out of it. You can decide what is best with your buddy Mrs. "G" (S33's mentor after school).""…

You know, she's mad, angry, and totally piss'ed off at me, at the world, at everything… BPD.

So I figured, it’s been three bloody months now, and nothing but vinegar from her, so what's it going to hurt… so I put my cards on the table… yes, she reacted badly, defensively, as I knew she would, but this is her 'language'... she communicates with anger, in anger… so at least she knows what I 'feel' now… I did get her to admit that she misses me… but, she said she doesn't know if she loves me… which I don't believe, and I told her that was total bravo sierra… for her to even say that… BPD,

She went high and right on me last night, but I didn't fight back, I just told her I loved her, and that certainly I have participated in the damage, .. and that no, hitting is not ok, no matter who's doing it, or why… she continued to scream at me .. until it went to texts… this is the last thing I texted back to her last night…

•   If perhaps one day I do by some miracle... lure you back here as my wife,
I’ll have to practice what is called radical acceptance... and as well learn and employ daily... even perhaps hourly... many new relationship tools in order to validate your anger towards me... what is
called cognitive and dialectical thinking... you will need to feel safe, connected, secure, and you will need to feel unwavering trust in me... I must never invoke or else trigger any fear of abandonment or
uncontrolled engulfment towards you... much still to learn... I’ve done so much damage... not being mindful...  or thinking clearly… but acting out in anger, reacting to you... which has been vividly reinforced as your truth in tonights texts... know that I love you... it is my hope and prayer that one day I may win your love back once more. I have to give it to God now, there is nothing more I could effect, or do, I’ve hurt you too deeply for too long... I let empathy fade away into apathy... I gave up... I don’t deserve anything from you... I need to stop making it worse...

She replied simply “Yup”…

So what have I done, have I started a small fire in her heart, she is soo angry, so filled with tempest spirit…

Tough… hurtful… I thought I couldn’t be hurt so deeply again, by a woman, but she has succeeded in doing so…

Why can’t she just live here with me and my autistic son in peace, and leave him to me… I don’t understand, why does she go after him, this has been the main source of conflict between us for years now…

I have all her history, and firsthand accounts from her own two adult children as well, and both foo BIL's… there is no doubt, she has been like this her whole adult life… it’s like she has a ‘hole in her soul’… as I heard on a radio show the other day.

I have started to learn the tools here, and guidelines to a much more concentrated degree (thanks Skip), in hopes that, if she does, one day try to resume this marriage with me, in this home, in this life… with me… and as well my life long responsibility of that of my special needs son, then I’ll be ready… and maybe things will be quite different… this is my hope, my prayer.

*Now add, she was dx with stage iv rcc (cancer) in two thousand sixteen…

Thoughts, advice welcome… this is day #1 of “trying again”, so far it’s just me here in the wheelhouse as far as I know…

Thanks for listening, Red5

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[GaGrl]

Red,

You paid the cards on the table.

She has several options in replying.

What have you considered might be the most likely replies, and have you thought through how you will react to those possibilities?

[Red5]

What have you considered might be the most likely replies, and have you thought through how you will react to those possibilities?

Hey Gagrl!

You know, she seems so twisted up in her mind… she says several different versions of one 'line item'… eg'… "I signed a year lease, I'm staying here till that's up (1December)… then she says she is going to buy her own home again… then last night, she says she "put in an offer"… well if her lease is unbreakable, which she told me, then that doesn't sound right… but does it really matter…

She says,"I'll never live in that house again with you and your son, I don't want him to touch me, I cant stand 2 be around him"… six months ago, she told me that she is "in it for the long haul, and that we should let his mentor go"... which we did (bad)… then she says, "I not coming back there unless you fix all the things you promised to (trim, paint), and you get "J" (S33a) on a schedule, and get rid of Mrs. "G" (mentor again)… then its, "I'm never coming back, I can't live with you and "J"… all inside of a week - three weeks time, see, not "sensical".

But this is BPD as I've come to know it.

About a month after she left, no contact, I texted her, simply, " I love you I miss you"… she responded almost immediately, "I love and miss you too"… "but_____"…

She is "all over the map"… she told our Pastor that "she doesn't want to lose the marriage"… over the phone when he called her to check on her the end of March.

What if she never returns… well, I don't have any 'control' over that, save my heartfelt promises to 'change' to suit her... and my emotional recommendations and ruminations to her that we should try at all costs to reconcile… and to not divorce.

Meantime, she continues her cancer treatments, in order to sustain her health prognosis…

I remember many times, over the past three - four years, we would fight down to the "D"… and when I would be nonsensical, and apathetic… she would always come around, and make me tell her that we were going to stay together .. I would say, you need to do what you feel you must, but we need to stop these behaviors, your anger, and my anger combined is getting toxic… thus the cycle kept repeating…

I need to plan and as well rehearse any and all possibilities… and yet she is so unpredictable in her demeanor… mostly anger (victim mode)… there are a whole host of tools to deal with these possibilities I've found in the links and groupings here…

The biggest thing… is to show unwavering empathy, and support, and truth to her… and not to invalidate her... even when she is cutting me to ribbons… as this is her defensive behavior… she has to protect her 'inner self'… at all costs… and that 'inner' person is very fragile… as I've come to understand.

Red5

[Sandb2015]

Red5,

Knowing what I know now, you let it build up to that because this waiting/limbo is enough to make one lose their already bruised and less than powerful heart and mind.

You let it out, you thought because you forgot that the words we use are translated through some very "mysterious code" unknown to mankind.

I am right beside you. I feel you and am teetering on doing the same ---hope for the best, prepare for the worst...

I know my heart and I know my love's heart work so differently, I am in a holding pattern and don't want to push something I can't--the honest truth is I've thought about it so many times as an ultimatum to excuse myself for giving up which I will not out of frustration and forgetting my long term goal.

I hear you...I understand...it is what it is for now and hope for the best-prepare for the worst.

Balance on that razors edge without getting cut too much.

What you're feeling, you've felt before, revisit it and get back to a calmer base.

[empath]

My h tells me that he doesn't have good "boundaries" and finds it difficult to not become over involved. For a while, he was reading about being codependent. The problem is that he doesn't really understand the whole concept of having boundaries. I remember several years ago, he told me that he didn't think that we as a married couple should have any boundaries (or more precisely that I shouldn't have any boundaries), and it shouldn't matter which one of us did something. The crazy thing is that he also bought Boundaries in Marriage one year as a marriage gift. He didn't understand the whole concept and thinks of boundaries as punishment -- from someone who is pretty intelligent about most things. The past couple of years, he has complained about the boundaries that I have to his pastor, clergy friends, and his dad without mentioning the reasons behind the boundaries which he also knows.

When my h moved out, he felt a lot of guilt and shame - which clouded his understanding of some discussions that we had. He wasn't able to see clearly. The guilt and shame were reasonable, but his reactions were extreme.

My take is that he doesn't know what to do with the guilt and shame other than try to blameshift or run and withdraw. It's hard for him to maintain his idea of himself as a fundamentally good person when he has been physically violent.

FWIW, my h is still in his apartment and hasn't filed anything legally; his anger is more directed at God and the church for not rescuing him or healing him...  I mainly just listen to him; he gets more defensive if I ask questions about his interactions with others.

Sometimes, we get to a point where we are triggering other's bad feelings. I've found that the less emotional reactions that I have, the more productive our interactions are. Reflecting back emotions and details has been helpful, too.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Red-

I’m sorry you’re suffering so deeply.  This is a very difficult situation and although you seem clear on your desire to reunite with Q, I can’t help but wonder if you’re really that clear.  I’m not trying to stir the pot, just wondering if you’ve really recovered from what took place between BPDw and S33.

You’ve asked some rhetorical questions ...”why can’t she just live here with me and my autistic son in peace... why does she go after him...”. The answer to the first question is that she’s never lived anywhere in peace.  She doesn’t have it in her - Not if anyone else is present.  My BPDbf (ex) is the same way.  He has to be at war.  The second question about why she goes after S33a, well any honest answer would shame the heck out of her.  I don’t think she can reconcile why on earth he “acts” like such a “baby”.  She’s looking at a grown man and his behavior doesn’t match what she sees;  she doesn’t get it.  So she gets mad and doesn’t know what to do with that.

The reason I say this is due to my ex-h, who I recently learned has lots of BPD traits (from a very reliable source, his exW before me, PHD in psych)... at any rate, years ago I had a bad injury that required a complicated surgery (nearly 3 months off work) which I postponed as long as possible to match my work schedule.  This man went off on me to an unbelievable extent because I wore a prescribed brace and continued working, going to the gym, etc until my surgery five months later.  One day I asked for help unloading groceries.  He screamed at me “if you’re so injured then ACT LIKE IT!”  And he refused to help me with that or anything else.  What he thought and what he saw didn’t match up, so he decided to hate me for it.

But then again, I could be wrong... but Red, how do you insure she doesn’t punch or hit S33 again?  And even with your best communication tools, how do you address this very important topic with her?  And...is there any chance that S33 would physically defend himself or strike back and inadvertently hurt her?

I understand that you feel you haven’t properly used the communication tools with your BPDw and are trying to learn those now, which is great.  But please know, I mean REALLY know, that you do not shoulder all of the blame here.  She has been like this her entire adult life and you did NOT cause her illness or these behaviors.  And I think when she left, there was no choice, you have to protect your son.  That’s your position.  He is your child.  Full stop.

I have worked so hard, we all have.  Loved so deeply, we all have.  We are here because of the love and compassion we hold for our BPD partners.  But this type of relationship cannot be unconditional- to my way of thinking that just becomes too dangerous...married in the eyes of GOD or not.  He is forgiving, yet also answers prayers.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Skip]

I said … "I love you “Q”, what happened was total and complete bull$hit … I should have never let you move out … we should have taken this straight to the Pastor … you are my wife, we are married, your 'butt' belongs with me, you need to stop this, we need to stop this, and you need to get your @ss back home now where you belong (I've now lost my mindfulness, and I'm starting to get a little too tough with her) … I continued as I drove to work … "when people have problems, they fix them, they work them out … we don't quit … I love you, and I failed you, and I am I'm sorry, now can we please take the first steps down the road to fixing this marriage" … "ok”, …”that's all I got”, … "I mean it, it's been three months now, and I've not even seen you … you belong with me “Q”, we need to see a therapist, a counselor, perhaps via Pastor "P" … I'm not going to ever divorce you, you are my wife, in the eyes of God", …

She started to yell at me, I stopped her again...

As we often relive these same situations again and again... how would you handle this different going forward?

[Red5]

As we often relive these same situations again and again... how would you handle this different going forward?

As far as situation, you mean the marriage, daily interaction, if reconciliation, reconnection may take place at some point in the near distant future.

If so, how would I handle it differently…

First off, I would dismount from my 'high-horse'… I would lose the feelings of contempt I've harbored for years now.

… feelings of hopelessness… any apathetic attitude would have to go forthwith.

I would be quick to listen, and slow to respond, and when I did respond, I would not JADE, I would be empathetic and supportive to her… I would edit each and everything I said to her in my mind before I said it… "stop making things worse".

What does it say all throughout… in the tools, guides, and lessons here… what does a pw/BPD _need_ in a relationship… roughly off my cuff’

*pw/BPD needs to feel safe, secure, and connected (NOT abandoned, ever).
*pw/BPD needs to feel loved, and appreciated.
*pw/BPD needs routine, structure, and dependability.
*pw/BPD needs empathy, unwavering trust, {even in difficult times, NO invalidation}.

I, as her caretaker… her companion, her husband, maybe even her best friend (one day)… I must always be on duty, I must be there for her (ever stalwart), through both the good times, and the tough times… and the very bad times… even when she has pushed me away (split me black, devalued me), I must not ever “lose it” with her… I need to always be extremely mindful, never in the ‘comfort zone’… and I must practice proper and effective (positive) cognitive awareness (radical acceptance)… and as well; well-practiced dialectical thinking processes…

This is a start (?),

Skip, thank you!

Red5

[Skip]

I am asking about the specific phone call I quoted. 

[Skip]

One of the reasons that she was angry is because your conversation focused on what you wanted/needed.  Not on her needs. That doesn't work with women in general, and certainly not in a situation like the one are in.

One of the most fundamental tools. Listen with empathy.
https://bpdfamily.com/content/listen-with-empathy

From her perspective, if you don't care or know how to learn what upsets her, there is little likelihood you will ever fix things.

Also, I wouldn't tell her you are going to "handle her" by learning tools. That's like a Admiral addressing the crew by saying "hey I'm going to gain your respect by giving you an inspiration speech a speech writer wrote to make me sound good. I practiced it for hours and will give it now".  You don't want her think these are "tricks you are learning to con her or to be highly invalidated by the fact that you think she needs to be handled as something less than an adult.

[Red5]

I am asking about the specific phone call I quoted. 

It was a ‘emotional day’... what I did may be liken to an ‘extinction burst’ of sorts... brought on by prolonged frustration of the situation... I certainly could have just listened as you say above... I will say this, she is a very stubborn person... she has often done the same type of communication to me...

Certainly not excusable on my part... her main method of communication is ‘anger’.

Yes... I could have done better, your advice and writings are much appreciated... thank you Skip!

Red5

[Skip]

I will say this, she is a very stubborn person ... she has often done the same type of communication to me ...

Red,

Nothing is going to be different if you don't make some significant changes on your side. You really don't have much of a sense of the tools - and you will need t hose in life.

Have you bought "Loving a Person with BPD"?  If you haven't, ask yourself why. Serious question.  There is an SOP here. You don't know it.

Skip   

[Red5]

Nothing is going to be different if you don't make some significant changes on your side.

You really don't have much of a sense of the tools - and you will need those in life.

Have you bought "Loving a Person with BPD"?  If you haven't, ask yourself why. Serious question. 

There is an SOP here. You don't know it.

Yes I bought it Skip, ur right, I’ve still got lots of rusty mannerisms I need to jettison...

I’m listening...

Red5

[Red5]

One of the reasons that she was angry is because your conversation focused on what you wanted/needed.  Not on her needs. That doesn't work with women in general, and certainly not in a situation like the one are in.

Thanks Skip,

I just got off the phone with her, she called me, we talked for over forty five minutes... no fighting, I just let her be her... she did send me through the sawmill... but I didn’t “react”... I just listened and validated her...

One small step in the right direction...

Wow...

Red5

[Skip]

Good.

What was the conversation about?

[Red5]

Good.

What was the conversation about?

Random things... I asked if I could see her, you see... “old man”’ dog has taken a turn... and I wanted her to know... that initiated the call, she said... I’m afraid we will fight... I told her, “your feelings are important to me, I’m listening”... that’s when the “sawmill” routine started... I know it well, I was dressed down, blamed... cut here and there... more dressing down... and more blame...

I just listened... and said an occasional... “yes I agree, you are right, I’m listening”... this went on for about twenty minutes... my son this that and the other... I don’t dicipline... I am too lax... I don’t finish things (paint and trim work)... etc etc etc’

So when she was done with me, I said to her... “I know it will take me a long time to prove your trust again”...

Then she started talking about her foo... and her kids... and she asked about mine... pretty “general purpose stuff”...

Then we talked about old Sunny dog, and she said to keep her informed about him... so she could come and say goodbye ; (

Then onto her...’her health and treatments”... then her rental... and her wish to move out into a newer place... to buy... them she says... “if we do get back together it can be a rental property for us”...

Then back to how she can’t live with me and S33 autistic again right now...

I used SET, and lots of validation... and I did not JADE, I just listened... wow : )

She led most of the conversation... she was her old self... on her ‘soap box’...  I just absorbed it all and agreed with her...

I finally said... “I am doing what I said I’d do, I’m making changes with and to me”... “I’m here, one day at a time”... “I love and miss you”...

She said she misses me too,  but can’t say she loves me, and she said good night...

And that was it...

So there it is... she sure pushed a lot of buttons... and even said I was the one rewriting history...  but I stayed my course and just continued to validate her words, and sentences from her thoughts...

I thanked her for calling me and talking to me, I promised I’d keep her informed about “old mans” ongoing journey...

We all love that old stray dog...

And I bid farewell... goodnight... and pledged my love to her.

Now I’m sitting here trying to remember everything she said...

Red5

[Skip]

It sounds like progress.

It will take a little time.

[Red5]

It sounds like progress...It will take a little time.

I think we have two, maybe a few more years... she is not responding to her treatments... and she is very sick due to the strength of the meds... she said she is stable...  but it’s not remitting...

Lord... she is scared... I can tell... and so am I...

Her two kids and their spouses are coming here for her birthday in May... traveling from many states away.

It was good to hear her voice and to hear her say... “if”

Red5

[empath]

Red5, can you identify her feeling more specifically?

Listening is good...  

[Red5]

Red5, can you identify her feeling more specifically?...Listening is good...  

What I picked up on most was;

*She continually justified what happened, and placed the blame squarely on me, as though I enabled the physical altercation between herself and my autistic son that morning.

*She drilled down into me for not following through and finishing many home improvements, as though I was ‘uncaring’ at her directions when in fact she destroyed any and all motivations due to constant belittling and quarrelsome attitudes.   

*She came after me and rewrote large portions of history going back years.

*She seemed to go in circles... placing blame, assigning guilt and as well telling me I was completely wrong in my perceived and previous recollections of events.

*I noted projection... and what seemed like a degree of dissociation type descriptions of historical events... long ago fights and extreme disagreements.

For about twenty minutes... she was her old self again from perhaps five -six years ago... she was really letting me have the “what for”... seemed almost therapeutic to her... and then she seemed to “shift”...’and it was over...

I just listened... just words... she is who she is : )

There was a time though... I would have engaged her... best described by the term “conflagration”... ever escalating to complete chaos...

But no more...’not tonight’... I just listened...

Seems she is filled with guilt... and anger... which is who she really is... she is her own victim... I want so bad to just hold her... and calm her.

When we were dating she used to say... “you have such a calming effect on me”... wow (now),

Can I identify her feeling... I think she is feeling guilt, which must be projected away... she is angry at herself and at me...

I thnk she wants to come home... put she is afraid I’m not genuine and that I will return to “fight” and not stay in “fawn/freeze”...

Does any of this make sence ?... am I off the reservation ?

She said tonight... “you know the history of my first marriage... I have trust issues”’... so there you have it !

She is a very complicated person... there is a sweet spot in there somewhere... a “neutral plain”...’the trick is to find it, and keep it center’...

It was good to just hear her voice, and be able to talk to her... regardless... I feel a lot stronger tonight... like this was a successful ‘check ride’... next maybe in person... face to face, this will be a true test for me... to be in her presence and have her come at me... and be able to work the tools successfully ...

Red5

[Skip]

Let her get it all out. There will be time to balance things. Play the long game.

Be sure to acknowledged that she is sick and you want to do what she needs - you want to understand what that is.

[Red5]

Let her get it all out.

There will be time to balance things.

Play the long game.

Be sure to acknowledged that she is sick and you want to do what she needs - you want to understand what that is.

Got to be “Teflon”... this is a whole shift in my mindset,

She’s going to beat me up pretty good I know,  but that’s ok,

It’s just words... this is how she self soothe’s,

She’s done this for years... I just never understood what was happening... and I ‘took it personally’.

Hopefully...’no more physical stuff’...

She is not the same woman she was three-six years ago now, physically.

This is tough... my gut, is telling me...’she’ll be back here by May’...we shall see.

Red5

[stolencrumbs]

Hey Red, happy for you that there are some positive changes. I'd suggest being a cast iron skillet instead of teflon--the grimy bits come off, but unlike teflon, some of the good stuff stays on the pan. Listening is good. Not fighting back is good. Not taking some of the stuff personally is good. I think it's also good to absorb some of what's behind those words so you can empathize with her. The below sticks out to me because my wife says the same things.

She drilled down into me for not following through and finishing many home improvements, as though I was ‘uncaring’ at her directions when in fact she destroyed any and all motivations due to constant belittling and quarrelsome attitudes.

We have many unfinished projects at our house. And I can give a list of good reasons for why I didn't finish them, and ways that my wife seemed to sabotage efforts to finish them. But she doesn't agree with or see that. What she sees is me not doing something I said I would do. She sees me not doing something that is important to her. She sees me doing other things instead of finishing these projects that matter to her. And that hurts her. It hurts her to see these unfinished things all around that remind her that the person she loved and trusted didn't do these things that were important to her. It looks to her like I don't care. It breaks my heart when I see it from her perspective. I can validate that.

That doesn't mean I don't have good reasons for not doing it. It doesn't mean she's right. It just means I can understand how she feels, and I can reflect that back to her.

Anyway, maybe something to think about. They're just words, but there might be something behind those words that can help season the skillet. 

[Red5]

...my wife seemed to sabotage efforts to finish them...but she doesn't agree with or see that. What she sees is me not doing something I said I would do.

She sees me not doing something that is important to her. She sees me doing other things instead of finishing these projects that matter to her. And that hurts her.

It hurts her to see these unfinished things all around that remind her that the person she loved and trusted didn't do these things that were important to her. It looks to her like I don't care.

It breaks my heart when I see it from her perspective. I can validate that.

My wife as much said the same to me last night, but I only agreed with her and validated her view, and I kept my own ‘views’ silent... I let her go on and on, which after a while seemed to actually calm her a bit.

I remember... when we were in the middle of a project, just name one... and she would ‘start in on me’... after a while I’d just shut down, which only made the situation worse... this home is like a museum of our quarrels... every unfinished piece of trim work...’tile work’ both unfinished and finished, and paint work...all has a negative memory attached to it...

So many similarities in all our stories...

Hope you are well this morning Stolencrumbs,

Red5

 

[JNChell]

Hey, Red5. I was wondering where you went. I just wanted to stop by and offer support in your decision. I respect what you’re doing. How are things going? I’ve been away for a bit and I’m trying to catch up.

[empath]

Red5, it sounds like you both are pretty scared about what the future holds, especially as it seems that Q's treatments aren't effective. Then, the dogs' health bring that to the forefront, too. I imagine there are a lot of emotions that are running high for both of you. Some people shut down their emotions;  other people express them in well, unhelpful ways.

[Red5]

Another phone call tonight from her... this one was over two hours long... trying to remember everything she said.

I "absorbed"... no JADE... lots of "V" for validation... some SET here and there...

I think she wants to come home, and she is "checking me"... "testing me".

... wow...

Work is out of control, Glenn's funeral is Friday, looks like I'm traveling for work next week, KC-130T ten bucket R&C at the Four Five Two squadron ... in "Newburgh"... The "Big AV8" man from PAX River came by the office today too... got to figure out S32 (autistic)... for "TAD",

I'm having a full blown "helmet fire"...

My head is spinning, will come back an post a proper "post" after I get the boy off to bed...

Lots to unpack again.

She let a "I know I love you" go... its a marathon, not a race... yeah, over two hours of "projection" on the phone... and I absorbed it all.

Red5

[Red5]

Ok, I've had a bit too much to think this evening, after the almost two hour phone conversation with my uBPDw (separated)... so, living in a BPD marriage, could it be worse than... say, living on a submarine?, on patrol, in the frozen North Atlantic... a U Boat?... sometimes that is what it felt like, feels like... I often "escape" in old movies, and also "soundtracks" to old movies... this one is a classic... could you imagine living in such an environment?

Red5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rln5FWAFFoo

[Cat Familiar]

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