Moved out after an argument, but I want to go home after reading Eggshells

[Lost in LA]

After a massive argument, I actually moved out of the residence. I spoke with her ex who opened my eyes, I thought I was going crazy. I read eggshells and I want to go home with my new found knowledge. Not sure how to accomplish this.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Radcliff]

Can you tell us more about your situation?  How long have you been together?  Do you have children with your partner?  What tipped you over the edge to prompt you to leave?

RC

[Lost in LA]

Thank you for the reply. In a few short hours my life changed again today. I'm 53, and my wife is 46. We have been married over a year, and together this May for two years. I have 3 adult children and she has a 12 YO Boy and 15 YO girl. Her son lives with us every other week. I'm from the North east, widowed. shes from NYC/ Florida and lives in Louisiana. I've known her family for over 12 years, and finally we met. Retired from state job, sold house and moved to Louisiana (LA) I've been an investigator (not Police) for over 20 years. I observe everything just out of habit. things were great. Like all newly married couples we had adjustments. She has a tough job which required high intelligence. She does it well. She can be type A at times. I took a position with a cable company. Started to see some changes over the last couple months. We have had a couple arguments, that were about buying expensive purses when we didn't have the money when asked she would change the story sometimes. I also noticed that when we would talk about the buying event she presented a story that never happened as in we sat on the couch and you told me I could when I showed the sale flyer. I was kind of stunned. In the past  I took it as miscommunication. The event happened two weeks ago. Income tax was in, paychecks were in, life was good. We had spoken about how we would use the money and one purchase was we were buying a plane ticket so I could see my daughter graduate from college. Nothing major $250. By Thursday the story changed and she reported a different plan she believed we had talked about. Friday changed again, and now an argument occurred. When I presented my case about  not getting the ticket, I was met with almost a rage type response. The name calling and level of yelling had actually floored me. She had resorted to name calling before, when I would challenge some things we were doing in the past. At this point on Friday we both were very upset. Her son was due home from school, and she started the yelling again. She had taken her son back to his fathers in a split moment it was like a switch was flipped. Fast forwarding on the couch Friday and Saturday with no sleep. Argument is still in full swing. Sunday the purse makes it way into the conversation with another changed story, and she denied the last three stories. I took it very personal, and felt she lied and major trusts were broken. At no point anyone was physically touched. She had an abusive childhood and a horrible child custody battle that lasted two years. Prior to me. She had married a monster after her children father and was abused in that relationship. I knew and was okay with everything because We had shared every secret we could. I did something so out of character I resigned from my job and flew to my sons in DC. I had a great relationship with her son. Very loving. even her ex the children's dad really liked me. I finally went to him asking for help. I love my wife and I was so very overwhelmed. When he told me about BPD he begged me to get the book. Stop walking on eggshells. I thought it was an odd request I had never even heard the term before. After reading it in one sitting I was in shock. It was my wife in those pages, not one or two things but like 8 out of ten kind of things. Everything fell into place in my mind. Thoughts of divorce are gone. Wanting to go home and start rebuilding. She is now thinking about if I can come back. The crazy part is her aunt in Florida, had described things so very much that I believe she is the keeper of the family secret. I'm talking with her aunt whom she is very close with. I have made it clear that I don't want a divorce and want to go home and that I love my wife very much. the argument lasted for a week and a half and my wife is calming. When I looked at the examples of statements BP often make she makes most of them almost exact. I need help...I'm not running away..

[Radcliff]

Got it.  That's a lot of detail, and it helps.  You are great at observing and reporting!  When I found out that my wife might have BPD, I read a couple of books but tried to manage in isolation for years.  You've taken a big and important step by finding this community.  You can learn to change your own behaviors to be more effective, and it can have a big impact.  Use this time away from her to work on learning the tools.

The first lesson for many is to learn not to “justify, argue, defend, or explain” (JADE).  It just fans the flames of conflict.  Take a look at that link.  Can you see that dynamic playing out in your relationship? 

RC

[Lost in LA]

I hit every JADE that I could and then some just by not knowing. I just kept telling everyone that something was wrong and they were looking at me like I had lost my mind. The most ironic thing was that I spoke to her ex husband. He begged me to read Stop walking on egg shells. He told me that he couldn't save their marriage as he didn't hear about this till years later. He told me I was a good man and he knows she loves me. He wanted me to have the chance he never got.  As for an update. He aunt in Florida called me today and told me that I need to return to LA. That her front that she has put up is falling apart. It was not to guilt me, but to tell me. As her ex husband told me, what she is saying is the opposite of what she is meaning. As I look back at what issues we had they were minor until I confronted her with truths that she could not dispute. This sent her into a spiral. In talking with my wife via texts which I hate, shes focused on the purse as being a betrayal, that throwing my cloths away was an issue, and being unselfish. Its my guess she is struggling with these issues and probably doesn't know why. She told me her aunt had to tell her I have been gone for two weeks. She had told me she thought it was one. So i'm returning on the 23rd...and have been reading as much as I can.I have talked with her ex a lot and he is willing to give me insight as to what cycles she goes through.

[Red5]

Hello Lost in LA,

…The crazy part is her aunt in Florida, had described things so very much that I believe she is the keeper of the family secret.

You are a career investigator, that said, as you learn more about your wife, and her family of origin (foo), you may observe, uncover, that this BPD phenomena; is in nearly all cases, "generational" in its construct, and 'behavioral relationship presentation'

They say "nature - nurture"…  

I was married before also, for over twenty years… and my ex wife was no doubt a borderline, who also suffered from cptsd, due to childhood trauma (extreme abuse), as was her sister, her mother, her aunt(s)… female cousins... even her grandmother, it took me twenty years to understand… but too late to "save", even if at all possible, I was unable to save the marriage.

But I didn't learn about borderline, until I met another woman eleven years ago, after being divorced for five years… and I married this woman eight years ago, after I dated her for four years… so reaching back to what I had experienced and learned before, I observed her own mother, at the same time; my current undiagnosed BPD wife… several of her aunts, both her sisters… etc'

When they talked about the 'family', I listened, at gettogethers, and visits… it was all right there, if you knew what to listen for… I connected a lot of dots… trying to understand, what was happening in my new marriage.

I heard foo MIL (mother in law) say, to my wife, many times over the years… "you were such a drama queen as teenager - you are too sensitive - you have a hot temper"…

And so it can see it again in my current marriage, not as severe as was in the first marriage (foo), but its there… yes; its generational, and its a hard nut to crack, you see, the element of denial is extreme, the 'foo' will protect the 'family secret'… at all costs sometimes…

You should hear by two fellow "brother-in-laws"… talk about their wives, my wife's two older sisters… wow.

I am 53 as well, well almost… my birthday is a week from Monday… my current wife is 51, she was also married before and also for twenty-years  …

I came to understand that she is a borderline back in mid 2016,

I went down a trail, of possible "explications"… 'histrionic', 'bi-polar'… extreme 'depression/anger'… looking for the "reasons why"… BPD fit, so far.

But my wife, she is not diagnosed… there is a bit more, foo MIL told me, as well my wife (uBPDw), that her younger brother, of the four kids in this foo; now deceased, had a "chemical imbalance" as a young lad… he apparently grew up to be a violent and controlling husband and father, he had a heart attack at age 40.

Same cycle... she was awesome, perfect at first, we NEVER fought, argued, or had a disagreement… yeah?

Then after a year, small flare ups, which I wrote off as "one offs"… being stubborn (previously married to dysfunctional people)  …

Then we married, and the preverbal shoe(s) dropped, and Mrs. Hyde showed up… I was blindsided…

… and so, at years six-eight... I'd fallen into extreme despair, anger, and resentment at the way I was being treated (perceived) in the marriage, BPD or no BPD, I just wanted it to stop… the "forth horseman" had run me down (contempt/sustained stonewalling)…

Then she went after my autistic son that lives with us (me) permanently… my wife and I separated in December… resultant, long story.

So… you should read here on BPDfam about "Dr. John Gottman’s ~ “The Four Horsemen of the (marriage) Apocalypse”, I don't have that link handy… but its in the "groups" somewhere here.
 
Another book(s) you should read… "I Hate You Don't Leave Me"… and another is "Loving Someone With Borderline Personality Disorder"…

Welcome LA, you are in a good place to learn, and to interact, and gain perspective.

Kind Regards, Red5

[Lost in LA]

Today was the really first day we had chatted with out any issues. I see the glimpses of my wife I fell in love with, but now I'm so much more aware that I will be the one, trying to work through each thing I cherished to wonder what was real and what wasn't. Just saying that it sounds like I'm hurting myself as well. To me the closeness that I crave was also the pathway to seeing into her. What I took as other issues makes me wonder if you can get truly close to someone with BP. Reading emotions and body gestures was my strong suit and  also my weakness when I was not able too it was truly throwing me off. She can be loving and caring and loyal, but when her mind shifts that is gone. So the learning on how I can speak and not take it personal has been on my mind a lot. I'm flying back on the 23rd. so this is my personal time to work in my minds what to even say. Not sure if I will be welcomed with open arms or a cold stare.Like everyone in here, each person is so different. each one of us writing on these pages I feel are looking for the same answers. The only thing I do know is that I love my wife. Warts and all as she says. I just cant leave...

[Red5]

...So the learning on how I can speak and not take it personal has been on my mind a lot.

*I'm flying back on the 23rd.

...so this is my personal time to work in my minds what to even say.

LA, be advised, you're going back in... before you do, I've got a link for you, read up on the tools here... be prepared, spend some time reading up, and fortifying yourself, before you go back in... "Fortitudine"!

Link ~> https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56206.0

The only thing I do know is that I love my wife. Warts and all as she says.

... wow!, my wife used to say the exact same thing !

Red5

[Radcliff]

Thanks for the update.  You've got some time to get ready for the return.  Remember, this situation is years in the making, so don't burden yourself with expectations that you'll make things all better in a few days after returning.  Just survive and try to move things in the right direction over time.  There will be setbacks.  Keep trying.

OK, so you're now aware of JADE.  If you can avoid it, you'll raise your game immensely.  I think it's the single most impactful newbie skill.  The next two things to read up on are
boundaries and validation.  Boundaries are crucial in the long term, but I'm not suggesting you put them into play right away.  I just want to mention them because long term, if you pile on validation and empathy without boundaries, you'll get consumed and the situation will be unsustainable.  Near term, focus on piling on validation for her feelings.  Which leads me to an important point...

If you're anything like me, someone messing with the facts drives you nuts.  How do you validate when someone says something crazy and untrue?  The key is partial validation.  Find something you can agree with in what they said, even if it's a small part.  Factual agreement is fine if there's any room for it, but the most powerful technique is to validate their feelings, because a person's feelings are always valid -- they feel them, and we can't tell them they don't.  Acknowledging the validity of someone's feelings is very powerful.  Imagine being stranded at an airport on Christmas.  Think of the difference if the ticket agent says, "Sir, don't be upset," and if she looks at you with empathy, says how sorry she is that this is so upsetting, etc.  Another example:

pwBPD:  "You never loved me!"
non:  "I'm so sorry you feel unloved.  Perhaps if I can listen more, you can help me understand your feelings and I can help you feel the love I have for you."

Do you think there may be opportunities for this approach in your relationship?

RC

[Lost in LA]

Thank you both, I have been absorbing this like a sponge. A welcomed sense of finding help to deal with a very tough subject. Yesterday was a day my wife had to deal with, several small problems (as I saw them) and one big one. Our step son (12) and school but the stress was immense for her. A big thank you to her ex husband, he had told me cutting the grass was on her mind. It had been 2 weeks + now that it was not cut. She does like the house looking very nice so image is on her top 5 on things she likes.  Through divine intervention the night before the idea that  I need to find out how I can help relieve some of the issues shes facing.  Her ex told me she was very upset about the grass so I found someone in our neighborhood to cut the grass. I messaged her yesterday morning wishing her a good morning and to let her know someone will be by to mow the grass today. The end result was it helped make her entire day better. Her replies were soft, and I could see she the stress relief was gone and allowed her to function. She wanted to know how I even knew these people. I could see in her text the loving wife I am married too. What it shows me is how much she did depend on me, and I took those thing for granted. She needed me to fill those roles and handle things. Its my thought that she is able to stay better in control of her emotions. She does fantastic at work, so additional tasks at home may be too much. So i have been trying to find the balance  to help let her breath. This morning I messaged her good morning I wished she have a good day. a You too reply followed. Minutes went by and " The grass looks very nice" and a update about her meeting with the school yesterday. She followed it with " I just need to decompress for a few days So if you don't hear from me that's why" My wife self heals (I see that's what she does) She tells me she needs time. Her Aunt has always told me this is a important time for her. The key word is "so" in her statement that I need to give her space. my "fear" much like her was thinking the worst.  Now I'm seeing it differently. Respecting and not pushing is the key. Thank you for the links...I have started the learning process.

[Lost in LA]

I'm finding I'm here more and more . My thoughts are pouring in and I'm trying to refrain from, reaching out and talking with my wife about any feelings I'm having. She seems to be responding better with me keeping my distance and giving her time to think. She actually told me that she is just decompressing and may be quiet for a few days. Yes fr me I always want to talk but now I just want to listen and let her come to me.  After the decompress message she called me a few hours later telling me about what we are going to tell her son, and she sounded good. I continued to give her space and she messaged a few more times today. During the call today she explained her actions towards her son. When she yells at him she tries to get him to listen. I don't agree with the yelling for one, but I can see her processing that it was an issue for me. After interviewing people for years, I could hear remorse in the call. I can see that one by one she is addressing the issues we argued about. I still say she has to have some idea, just by what she has been talking about. A very common phrase she used is I can not validate your emotions. Shes not a criminal, shes my wife who I love. I know I cant fix her, I just want to understand how I can help us as a couple.

[Lost in LA]

Hello all:. Just stopping to drop off some thoughts. I woke this morning to find a text from my wife advising that the president had the FAA ground certain types of planes. I responded with I will look into it. I had just woke so I was not processing much at that point. After I replied that I will have to see,  I then saw her sense of urgency increase. I can see glimpses of the woman I love. What I have learned so far is I cant cure her but I can understand her a little better, and learn how to speak and Listen. It was another good day with our communication  . I spoke with her ex again briefly today. I can remember my wife talking about how she went into a group family counseling with her ex husband and she said it was an ambush. Asking her ex, he had tried to bring her BPD to light. Her reaction was complete anger and she withdrew and left. I'm not sure how anyone else has tried to tackle with bringing the issue to light. To me I'm thinking that I need to settle back in and walk slowly allowing communication to start again. Any ideas?

[Radcliff]

Congratulations on your progress.  "Bringing things to light" is a very dangerous game.  Almost universally it does not work out well, and you have heard that it didn't work well with her.  You are starting to learn how to handle your own unproductive behaviors (like panicking and not giving her space) and to interact more effectively with her.  Keep up the progress.  It doesn't matter whether you've got something labeled, if they are getting better, they are getting better.  With respect to giving her space, do you think once you return that you could find ways to give her some space in smaller ways, without moving out?

RC

[Lost in LA]

I'm actually thinking I may have caused more damage by moving out than I would I have if respected her need for space. She may not have even seen my point but the deescalation of the argument would have helped.I just felt attacked, and I lost control of my emotions. .   What I'm seeing is that my need to fix everything may cause issues. So I'm back to listening again. I've done it for twenty years and I forgot to do it at home. Yes, the rules are a bit different in my house, but the most basic respect still needs to be given, and patience and understanding is needed, or in this case even more patience is needed. I read somewhere that her BPD does not define the woman I fell in love with. I need to separate them both.I may be wrong, but in my mind I'm seeing that working on how I handle things will be tough, but will help us both.

[Red5]

Good morning LA,

...I just felt attacked, and I lost control of my emotions. .   What I'm seeing is that my need to fix everything may cause issues.

This is almost a “constant” algorithm amoung us “non’s”.

I did the exact same thing... and unfortunately I let myself slip into the third and forth realms of Mr. Gottmams ‘relationship failure’ model... the constant “attacks” as I thought they were... drove me to contempt for my undiagnosed wife... I lost my empathy for her... I wasn’t far enough around the learning curve to understand her... or else my true misunderstood feelings for my wife...

What you now are beginning to understand...about trying to get your wife to understand...about her own suspected borderline... ie’ don’t ever “try this at home”... are wise words, don’t do it...

She has to want to seek therapy... on her own, any other path leads to, may lead to the ultimate destruction of the relationship... many of us “try”’it, and fail miserably... as I did.

Hang in there LA, you are doing well so far as I can tell in my own still very limited scope of things... I’m still learning too.

Kind regards Red5

[Lost in LA]

Thank you. This is my marriage, the only one I have. I love my wife and will do what it takes to make it work. Is what I tell myself each morning I wake up. I'm far past if I'm going to go or stay. I'm learning more about myself and my wife each day. A new beginning...thank you everyone for listening to what my thoughts are.

[Radcliff]

You're off to a good start.  You are being introspective and working on your self awareness.  I'm glad to hear that by committing to listening you feel you're going back to a skill you're already good at.  That's great -- you know how to do it. 

What's driving your return date?  It's fairly far away.

RC

[Lost in LA]

I'm finding even with my experience in talking and listening, I fell short. Not blaming myself, it's more like how can I do better. I have always had rules about my work and my life. I would never investigate a friend, or ask questions to things that were not my business. It's hard to keep your work life and personal life separate.

When I decided to go back I saw a change in my wife as to how she was talking to me. Still a hard exterior, her NYC life coming out  no offence intended towards anyone from NYC. I was told in her past it was how her parents would treat her, so she reverts to something she always knew. She has let her guard down a few times.

We spoke about my coming back and she wanted me to return when her son was there. I'm guessing a safety measure for her, not that we would have fought or argued. More like giving her an out to not having to have deep conversations.

The return date had to be when her son was there, so I had every other week to look at. Now for the cost of the flight was another factor. Pretty expensive. After I booked the flight my wife asked if I could have returned earlier. I wanted to say yes,  but I knew I needed time as well as she did to gather our thoughts and learn. The day after I bought the ticket the president grounded all aircraft of a certain type. As a person who believes  in fate, I started thinking oh boy here we go. My wife knew and had already found me another flight, as all flights out of DC for the 23rd were cancelled. I look for those little things  that people do. It makes me feel good when she does things like that. I guess we all measure love in different levels.

The difficult thing was I'm have the "miss you waves" as I call them today. I told her I loved her last night in a text. This morning I receive that she was not ready for that and asked me why I said it. In trying to keep it Lite I just said its part of me.

[Radcliff]

Got it, sounds like it was a mix of logistics and you both needing some time.  Nice that she made the new reservations for you, I imagine that felt good.  I'm sorry to hear that she wasn't ready to receive your "I love you."  It isn't surprising; many members mention that closeness can feel uncomfortable at times for their partners, though it can still be hard on us "nons."  It's good that you're able to observe the ways that she tells you she cares, like making the plane reservations, even if her ways are different than yours.

You've mentioned keeping it light, and also that she isn't ready for too much closeness too fast.  There's going to be a lot going on for you and for her when you return.  What are your thoughts on how you'll play it for the first couple of days?

RC

[Lost in LA]

Each day is so different. Today her son returned to the house after being gone for 3 weeks. She allowed him to go on a cruise with her ex husband and his family. I haven't spoke to her since 3 P.M.  on Friday. I had texted her a question and she just decided to call me instead. She had told me that she needed time to recoup after a long week and that I may not hear from her in a few days..Trying not to let my mind to start running I decided to just let her be.    At around 8 P.M. I sent a text wishing her a good night.  At around 11 A.M. yesterday she sent a text message that her son my step son was at the house. I had been speaking to her ex husband who decided to be nice and let him go to the house early. He knows the last few weeks have been rough on her. In talking with him, I found that much of her anger was deflected to him. We had made an agreement that we will continue to talk as it will help both families. If my wife would find out it would be devastating to her. When my wife and I were in sync life was good with everyone. He said he could see it building and he wanted to contact me but didn't really know me. When I reached out to him, it opened dialogue, and we started talking in hope to help both of our families. He loves his wife and children. Just as I love my wife I am close to the kids.
In checking my flight today, I have a notice from Southwest as they are having so many problems with a certain type of plane. I had always shared everything with my wife, and this time without thinking, I told her I might not be able to make it back on the 23rd. Wow did that send a panic into her. My first test in listening and deciding when to speak. I just let her text through some anger and some things. She was in true panic. I could see that her emotions took over and I saw fear. I felt like crap and I messaged I was sorry that I had upset her. After spending an hour on hold, the rep at the airlines had advised me that my flight was just fine and there were no problems. With a few more colorful texts, from my wife I didn't reply. After about 45 minutes pass and I get a photo image from her. It was of her at her college graduation. Her uncle had shared it with her and she wanted me to see. So with Eggshells around me, I thanked her and asked if she had more I would love to see them. I have always  loved seeing photos of her. It allows me to be a part of her past when she shared. A few more texts and then a phone call from her and my step son. It was so nice hearing their voices. I had sent a text after the call thanking her, telling her that I so needed to hear their voices. At the very same time I get a text asking me what I was doing this weekend. A good day today. Feeling warm, with memories, hearing both of them laugh.

I keep running thoughts through my mind as to what the first day will be like. My flight doesn't get into Louisiana until 6 P.M. and I would be home until 7 or 8, I'm thinking no matter what I come up in my mind, I have no clue what will happen when the door opens. I know her son and our dog will be thrilled. In this case I think letting her take the lead may be better. This reminds me from when I was 18, joined the Army, it's 3 A.M. not knowing what to expect when those doors open and we get off the bus. I couldn't control what was going to happen then and this time its the same.

It doesn't change how I feel about my wife. Shes still the same woman, I'm just seeing something that she probably doesn't even know its there.

[Radcliff]

You just reminded me of the day I showed up for Air Force training 

That's just about the size of it -- it could go several ways, and it's hard to predict. 

Hmm... you have a lot of time.  She seems to be able to tell you about her feelings and needs when things are calm.  What about asking her?  You could say you're super excited to see her, and want to show her how much you love her but not crowd her, and ask how she might like to play the first day.  Do you think that could be helpful?

RC

[Lost in LA]

When I try to talk with her she diverts and pulls the victim out and sends the conversation to an area that flairs up her anger. I went and re read text messages from when we were first dating. I had taken screen shots of certain texts as they were things I never wanted to forget. She talked about having very high emotions, and certain things she said I can see that she had actually told me a lot. My wife has always written in journals, about events that have happened. Not just bad, but good memories as well. I can see that was her way to remember things when they may get confusing.

So I have tried to sample with her on how she wants my arrival to go. Her son will be there so she wants a very upbeat coming home..When I talk with emotion she seems to shut down. So to talk with out saying how I feel about her, to keep it lite, and avoid trigger subjects has been rough to say the least.

[Radcliff]

When I talk with emotion she seems to shut down. So to talk with out saying how I feel about her, to keep it lite, and avoid trigger subjects has been rough to say the least.

It sure can be tough.  What does your support system look like?  Do you have a therapist, or friends/family members who you can talk to?  It's good to have a diverse support system.  Some folks you might not tell anything sensitive to, you may just share activities, and others you can tell more, or nearly everything to.  Since you're a plane flight away from home, are you separated from your support system?

RC

[Lost in LA]

I used that support system today, I have a life long friend who is in Colorado who has a daughter with BPD, A close friend in the Ohio PA area, and a newly founded friend in Louisiana (her Ex). I learned quickly that you can not have too many as your thoughts will get clouded.

Today my wife has totally focused on my obtaining work, quickly. (a task I have been working on since my plan to return home) I do understand that is a major priority, but the expectation is for me to have one when I land. (No pressure there). Not much of a surprise, I hear from her aunt today in Florida. Yet another variable, to deal with her opinions which seem to influence my wife greatly.
Then I have this site that has been the most help. I know I have to be strong, and try to wade through what ever is going to fly at me. On a great note my step son was calling me today, so we have talked off and on all day. Believe it or not that 12 YO offers support. He's not even aware that when he offers me encouragement, It shows that I have made a positive impact on him.

I'm learning how to breath and think, and each day is a victory.

[Radcliff]

It's great to hear that you have multiple sources of support.  That's key.  I, too, reconnected with some friends from decades ago.  A great exercise in these situations is to go through your mental catalog of old friends and think about ones that have weathered hardship or are otherwise "rated" for the heavy stuff.  Re-activating these friendships can be huge.

Good luck with the job search.  It can be tough to search remotely, but luckily you'll be back in town soon.  My job searches have been stressful, and have been some of those times when I realized that exercising to reduce the stress was a must-do.

Be careful with the 12 y.o.  He sounds like a good kid, and likely feels a burden to try to help his mom and you.  Try to relieve him of this burden, let him be a kid, and don't look at him as a source of support.  I remember thinking about this with my girls, and remembering to still allow myself the joy of interactions with them.  It's a subtle but important difference.  Sorry if I'm preaching to the choir on this one!

RC

[Lost in LA]

Yesterday was marked as a good day. One by one my wife was talking about things, and It was almost as if I  could see her mind placing them on the shelf as I provided an answer that fit. In my mind I was giving the same answer each time, but this time she was agreeing. I do accept full responsibility for things that I did say when I was very upset. For those things (way out of character for me) I'm truly sorry. I have learned to show your're truly sorry you don't repeat them.  Since my wife had to sign a new lease, she called the landlord and asked if I could come back. Her impulse during our three day argument was to message him and tell him I moved to another state. In talking with her ex husband, and from what I have seen, my wife is a very knee jerk type person. When you say something like "I don't care what you do", is a dangerous open ended term. Or when she asked about my clothing, and my response was you can throw them away as far as I care, was exactly what happened. If you were truly wanting the person to come home, throwing tall of their clothes away just does not make sense. It took me a little pit to not take it personal. In that situation she was struggling and overwhelmed.

I'm starting to see that her greatest fear, was being abandoned. Almost every statement or thought has that concept attached to it.  Time to my thoughts have allowed me to see what matters most to me, and now I'm seeing what truly matters most to her. With a side order of I have no flipping clue what I'm doing and each day is a new day.

Yes her son, is a strong support but talking to him can never happen. He has no clue what has happened and it's best to leave it like that. Letting him be a kid will keep us all happy. Two more days and I will be back in LA.

[Radcliff]

Yes, fear of abandonment is a hallmark of the disease.  In fact, it's #1 on the list of BPD diagnostic criteria.

Good luck with the trip back!  Keep us posted!

RC

[Harri]

This thread has reached the post limit and has been split.  Part 2 is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=335210.0