Ex partner continues to blow up life. How to escape?

[taxitoheaven55]

HI everyone ,

I need some support , I have a close friend who has recently had to fly from sydney to vietnam because her partner has BPD, and was very manipulative in terms of guilt tripping and gas lighting her,  since arriving in vietnam she had to endure a 5 hour conversation to change a facebook status to single , and even though this man is on the other side of the world has also had to continue to say " I love you " because her ex partner continues to blow up make her life very diffulcult and near impossible for her to move on.

I need some advice to give my friend in terms of setting bounderies ? how can she escape this cyle that she is in , which comes back to her constantly coming back due to the guilt trips and emotional abuse she receives.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[itsmeSnap]

Hey taxi

her ex partner continues to blow up make her life very diffulcult and near impossible for her to move on.

What does a "blow up" look like? are you concerned about her safety?

Staying or leaving is a decision she has to make on her own.

As a friend you can support her, keep in contact (a support system helps tremendously on such situations), provide options without really pushing for change (can backfire).

I know, it sounds like there's nothing to do. There is, but it requires a very gentle touch.

What is your relationship with her like? how long have you been friends?

[taxitoheaven55]

To be honest, im confused as to how long we have been friends is relevant, but I will say that im like a brother so we are close in this regards,

I totally agree with you , that no one can force anyone to do anything - and that all I can be is a good friend in this process.

I will say this though , my sister , has made the choice to leave this relationship to start a new life,  yet due to the severity of her ex partners condition , even though they have broken up she is not being allowed to move on with her life- and in fact still has to tell this man she loves him she misses him to keep the peace so she can function so she can work,  even though they live in seperate countries , so what im asking for here because I dont have all that much knowledge admittedly with BPD is some guidence to help her set boundaries and keep them , which is what she wants to do at the end of the day,

There is a large degree of control exerted by this ex partner over my sister for example just changing a facebook status to single took a 5 hour argument in which she was told that she was " advertising herself to men".

They have been broken up now for 5 months nearly , yet this continues

I know I might come across as not being objective here ,and rather emotive - I do understand her ex is unwell and I myself though not having BPD have suffered from depression anxiety and been in an out of hospital - rehab when I was younger , so I dont attach any stigma to mental illness nore do I judge another human being, I constantly try to take myself to more understanding educated supportive position , hence me being here to get some support from the incredible online community here.

But in saying this I think whethere it be myself or you or anyone in this world if we have mental illness or not we all have to be accountable and controling and abusive behavior is not cool , and speaking for myself I have a big big thing about respecting women and respecting children ,

Another example of control here - she had a friend who had simply liked a few instgram posts as we all do - he was male , she was forced through jealousy and control to cut him off as a friend.

During this relationship my sister was not even able to spend time with friends , simply because they were male?

I got admitted to hospital and was unable to call her because she was staying at his house and was afraid of repurcussions if she picked up the phone in the middle of the night?

She has offered to be the friend to help this guy out , with finding a career , but he simply will not let her move on with her life- the problem is my sister is to kind , and look im not being an asshole here, id never tell anyone to cut anyone out of there life if they are a positive influence , but no one is god , and we cant fix everyone , when the person we are trying to help is only trying to help themselves for other motives


getting help- but also thrown into this situation is the fact he injects testosterone and smokes large amounts of weed every day.

I really need some guidence here -  because to me this situation seems like it could spiral out of control.

[itsmeSnap]

To be honest, im confused as to how long we have been friends is relevant

It's relevant as far as how she would react to your advice. A close friend, a "brother from another mother" has more weight in affecting what she'd consider than say a coworker or a friend of a friend.

Keep in mind that there are so many stories, abusive or not, of couples staying together despite what friends and family say. We don't have all the facts most of the time, and even then there are inner feelings of obligation or even compassion in an otherwise unhealthy relationship.

Even here in the boards when people come in very distressed situations (and I do encourage you to read other's posts to see what she could be seeing, through the eyes of other BPD relationship partners), there is a general notion that we want to improve the relationship, though its often done in dysfunctional, self defeating ways.

They have been broken up now for 5 months nearly , yet this continues
[...]
Another example of control here - she had a friend who had simply liked a few instgram posts as we all do - he was male , she was forced through jealousy and control to cut him off as a friend.

So its not just about her ex you're concerned, its her overall reaction to concede under pressure?

I really need some guidence here -  because to me this situation seems like it could spiral out of control.

I know you mentioned boundaries but that's for her to implement, you can support and advice on how to proceed and keeping things safe, kind of like I'm doing here: do you think I could get you to do anything over these posts that you're not convinced or compelled to do yourself? again, trying to see it from her perspective.

What would you consider as progress?

[taxitoheaven55]

Well im sorry I appreciate the advice I do , but no person deserves to be nor should feel compelled or pressured to stay in a " abusive"  relationship which should never be tolerated under any means.

Yes of course its for her to implement bounderies , but thats a very black and white statement mate , please do tell , how does a women implement bounderies when she is in a abusive relationship

and to be honest id reflect upton the tone and direction of some of the advice you are giving , because you are not condemning abusive behavior here ? If anything you are talking about it in a somewhat acceptable manner.

I suggest you re read what my friend is being tortured with , she wants to leave and she cant its not about being compelled mate its about being manipulated having kindness used against one self and being entrapped in a manner in which to be honest -  she could go to the poice if need be , your point of view is more on the fence than really being supportive of someone who has helped remove someone from a potentially unsafe enviorment of constant abuse

[itsmeSnap]

I suggest you re read what my friend is being tortured with , she wants to leave and she cant its not about being compelled mate its about being manipulated having kindness used against one self and being entrapped in a manner in which to be honest

You cannot just "yoink" a person out of it taxi, things can get ugly real fast, especially in abusive situations.

we recently had a topic on this, it was a father who killed his wife and daughters over an affair he had. The wife "confronted him" about it (just told him she knew about it) and that set him off enough to kill.

Chris Watts killed his family - what can we learn from this?

My being "on the fence" is me trying to be very cautious about it so as to not precipitate a potentially threatening situation from escalating further. Now, being in another country is definitely much safer than living together, but with readily accessible travel things are better handled as low impact as can be.

Even though you mention she realizes its a difficult situation, implementing change on her end is difficult, much more so for you as a friend as you are not directly in control of the situation.

please do tell , how does a women implement bounderies when she is in a abusive relationship

Precisely, this is a difficult problem with no easy outs taxi, and I'm trying to navigate how actionable you and I can be in this situation.

From our Domestic Violence Safety Plan:

If you’ve left the relationship, emotional safety planning may look different than what it would be if you were still in an abusive situation. Leaving a relationship is one of the most dangerous times for victims emotionally as well — it’s normal and expected that you’ll be encountering new feelings (ex: loneliness, struggling with being uprooted, difficulty adjusting to a new life).
[...]
STEP 2: Safety when preparing to leave.
Leaving must be done with a careful plan in order to increase safety. Batterers often strike back when they believe the other person is leaving a relationship.

I see you understand that what your friend is trying to do by telling him he loves her despite the abuse is trying to keep the peace for her safety. Hopefully you understand that she can't just "fight back" and leave without risking her physical and emotional well being.

There's a process, and if she panics (from not knowing the tools, or feeling pressured) she will slip and potentially get in a dangerous situation. Again, this is a difficult problem with no easy outs.

Things being stable-ish for her despite the situation gives you time to talk with her on preparing an action plan, there are resources here on the site and we usually coach through them so that we can advice on particular circumstances as they arise.

Sometimes the person is reluctant to change, or they go about it in less than ideal ways, so its always helpful to have people to rely on, if only to just tell them "I understand, I'm listening, I'll be here for you".

As a starting point for something actionable you can do for her is to comment on slowly reducing contact. Similar to what you mention she's doing with keep saying she loves him etc.., except deliberately slow her responses. Chat less often, "I was a bit busy", waiting a day, then a week, slowly getting him used to less frequent contact. He will probably try to push it and text/contact her a million times a day if he notices her pulling away, but if its slow and almost imperceptible, it can become a new norm.

Does that make sense? What other strategies has she tried to "get rid of him"? Is there a particular action plan in that you'd like to or have previously discussed with her?

[taxitoheaven55]

Look mate Im sorry if I came across as rude , this was not my intent at all,  to be honest ive tried my best at educating myself on this, I do appreciate the honest advice you have given me,  and apoligize again if I came across as rude,

This is scary for myself, ive had a sister go through a domestic violence situation myself,  I understand totally where you are coming from.

I just feel powerless , I know that my friend needs to make her own moves in her own time, she has tried to cut down contact and follow some steps, but a cycle continues

If you could give me some strategies to pass on to her, give guidance id really appreciate it. sorry again , please understand this is a hard situation to watch knowing really I have no power , and  knowing  I do know what my friend desires but doesnt know how to obtain it given the circumstances -  having not dealt with a person with this condition

[Purplex]

Hi taxitoheaven55,

I think Snap already made some good points about the difficulties of leaving an abusive relationship and how this has to be approached with caution to prevent things from escalating further.
I'd like to ask some questions for clarification so that we can get a better picture of the situation your friend is in right now.
They split up 5 months ago but stayed in contact over social media. Is this correct? Did they live together before the break up? Where did she stay after?
Did she fly to Vietnam to get away from him?

She has offered to be the friend to help this guy out , with finding a career , but he simply will not let her move on with her life- the problem is my sister is to kind , and look im not being an asshole here, id never tell anyone to cut anyone out of there life if they are a positive influence , but no one is god , and we cant fix everyone , when the person we are trying to help is only trying to help themselves for other motives

I agree that it's sometimes necessary to cut abusive people out of your life, but accepting that somebody you care about is beyond help or unable to take the help is a hard pill to swallow, especially if you already invested a lot into the relationship. It seems like your friend still feels obligated to cater to his needs and thereby leaves an opening for him to manipulate and guilt trip her.
If you want to help her, I think it's important to understand where this feeling of obligation comes from. Maybe she feels like she failed him and want's to make up for it, maybe she is afraid of his reaction should she decide to cut contact with him, maybe a part of her still hopes for things to work out in the future, maybe it's something else entirely.
What is your take on it?

[once removed]

hi taxitoheaven55,

have you encouraged your friend to join us, and get support?

[taxitoheaven55]

Hi taxitoheaven55,

I think Snap already made some good points about the difficulties of leaving an abusive relationship and how this has to be approached with caution to prevent things from escalating further.
I'd like to ask some questions for clarification so that we can get a better picture of the situation your friend is in right now.
They split up 5 months ago but stayed in contact over social media. Is this correct? Did they live together before the break up? Where did she stay after?
Did she fly to Vietnam to get away from him?

I agree that it's sometimes necessary to cut abusive people out of your life, but accepting that somebody you care about is beyond help or unable to take the help is a hard pill to swallow, especially if you already invested a lot into the relationship. It seems like your friend still feels obligated to cater to his needs and thereby leaves an opening for him to manipulate and guilt trip her.
If you want to help her, I think it's important to understand where this feeling of obligation comes from. Maybe she feels like she failed him and want's to make up for it, maybe she is afraid of his reaction should she decide to cut contact with him, maybe a part of her still hopes for things to work out in the future, maybe it's something else entirely.
What is your take on it?

Hi im messaging now

[taxitoheaven55]

Hey look I just want to thank everyone again for all the support thus far,

This situation is a very complex one, and I appreciate snap and yourself for being so objective in the advice given thus far,

My friend should I say "sister"  had tried to break up with her partner as far back as early november, but was unable to do so though she did try, such was the pressure and control put upon herself that she wasnt able to do so.

As mentioned before I dont attach stigma to anyone with any type of mental illness having been through life experiances - be it not BPD, before leaving vietnam my sister had actually almost given up on being able to seperate from him, because of how depleted she felt, and the feeling of entrapment and his refusal to just let her go.

Back in december, early,  her  mum had a visit paid to her from  the guys mum, - basically to tell her that she was concerned for her welfare and that the son had a more violent side that my friend had not yet witnessed.

It was at this point, that my friend told me she needed help to make this seperation happen , and that the only way this would be possible would be in vietnam, she had no money- so as a brother , I flew her there gave the shirt off my back so as she could deal with this very complex situation.

Since then , my friend had to endure a 6 hour phone conversation just to tell him that she didnt want to be with him anymore , that yes she cared about him and would be there as a friend but that they were not compatable in the relationship sense. This wasnt taken well obviosly and issues which from what I gather stem from the abandonment component followed - abuse , guilt tripping so forth

My friend took this on the chin and reiterated she would be there as a friend to help - but she was made to promise to leave a facebook status - " in relationship" 

Obviosly , this didnt sit well with my friend I will use the name " Erin"  because the fact is they were not in a relationship anymore and she was single. And so she made the choice to change that status after one month being overseas , what transpired was more abuse , allegations constantly that she was seeking to advertise herself for other "men " by doing this. and another 6 hour conversation " argument" she tried to be firm in doing this

That is again she reiterated support , that she would be there as a friend , but that he needed to make choices and seek help for himself not on the basis of her- this situation as I've mentioned is made even more harder because this man uses copios amounts of weed, and also injects testosterone , which in terms of any mental health is a no no  ,

The thing is erin wants to and tries to be firm, but the abuse levelled at her and the guilt tripping , just enabled a constant cycle.

It was only the other night she told me she needed help to un tangle herself from this web but didnt know how, every morning she has to say good morning , say i love you babe , even when he says I miss holding you , she is forced to say " me to"

And come night time , has to repeat this saying goodnight.
Because if she doesnt ? lets call this guy "ben" , ben blows up and accusations follow again.

In erins mind the way forward is to empower ben , get him to get work this that, which you know I think is amazing of her , and in any other situation or if this support was perceived as a "friend" to a "friend" id be so supportive,

However ben is using her kind caring side , as a form of entrapping her, and he recognises be it due to symptoms of BPD " sorry if im wrong to say that. again I have no knowledge of this condition"   that if he blows up erin will react in a certain manner.

This concerns me even more so because he is an extremly jealous possesive guy , even outside of the condition he suffers, I will give you an example to convey my concern- when back in sydney they went to subway , subway had a promotion she was given a free 6 inch sub by a guy that worked there , " ben told her he would track down and kill any guy that checked her out"

When I myself just liked a instagram post , and commented he screenshot it sent it to her asked who the #### I was , and then harrassed her for two days , tracked down every other comment and like I had made, and due to this I had to disable my own social media just to give her that breathing space without conflict

He asks for photos saying I miss you this that and when she has said this is innapropriate as friends , he again blows up levels abuse and is forced to send photos.


They are in contact over the phone, and via social media and she doesnt know how to remove herself from this or set the boundaries necessary to get on with her life and live her life.

Erin is extremly distressed by the need for her to ,keep telling him these things, and from my opinion if she is forced to say I miss holding you as well that I love you as well , yes it keeps the peace for her to get on with her life , but it also sending the wrong message , and reinforcing perceived feelings and hope for ben

Thus making it even more harder to start to even fix this.

This situation is made even more tricky because when my friend was younger 19 she lost her dad , and through the circumstances of "grooming" became intertwined with the father of ben for 7 years

This older man who is 55 now made her promise to take care of his own kids

its a very multi layered situation in which its getting worse , and I really need some direction from this community to help gain some traction to help erin start the process and understand the process of how she can un tangle herself from this web she so so wants to be out of.

Its hard , and its hard knowing that she even told me , she feels like she is being sucked down a whirlpool

please help

[taxitoheaven55]

This situation has another element to it as well, 
Im not judging the wealthy , we have both good and bad people who are poor and loaded
but only 7 months ago , he poured his first bowl of cereal this is no exagerration he comes from a very wealthy family
he is 26 himself has never paid for anything in his life, and had no accountability or life skills at all
he gets everything he wants - thats how he sees it

he is reliant on erin to almost pave the path for his life,  and thats another lay which makes this so hard

Which makes this all the worse, because im of the belief even outside his condition
there is a fudemental well part of himself , thats entitilted and thinks that he owns my friend

[taxitoheaven55]

Im sorry if I offended some people by the nature of panic inclusive in my message and by perhaps sharing to much , it wasnt my intention this is just a very tricky period of time for me , with a ton of heightened emotions I myself am strugggling to process to get clarity in terms of how to help my friend move forward.

I would like some feedback though on something my friend is considering doing which im not sure though create bounderies would work to the process that has been alluded to within these forums to remove herself from this toxic abusive relationship - in the safest way possible

My friend still as mentioned before has been telling her ex , that she loves him calling him babe talking to him like he is a still a partner though broken up , so as not to trigger him, however yesterday she told me , that she thought the best way going forward was just to tell him out of the blue she is now in a relationship with someone.

Though of course I want to see her be able to regain control of her life as she desires , I have a big fear within myself that merely going from 0-100 in terms of the words she has been using to now telling him out the blue she is seeing someone could cause a dangerous set of circumstances for herself due to the nature of his obessesion jealousy and fixation.

I have told my friend that I think it would benefit her to have a third party that is a councilor or doctor speak to her about this condition to gain knowledge and coping stategies on how to move forward infact thats the reason I even become a memeber here , was not to so much be the emotive friend I have been , but to get more understanding of her ex partners condition and a guide on how to help navigate with her out of this rough sea she is in ,

Could someone please reply to this message and give me some ideas feedback as to if she gos ahead with what she is planning having not even stopped communication in a certain fashion

will this have undesirable consequencs in terms of triggers

[Purplex]

No offense taken, taxitoheaven55, at least from my side. It's just a bit difficult to offer adequate advice, since you don't have any direct influence on the situation and we can only guess what Erin's perspective and motivations would be. Don't get me wrong, it's great that you are reaching out to help your friend, but yours and our possibilities are limited as long as she doesn't participate in looking for a solution. 
Did you encourage her to join us herself, as once removed suggested?

I have told my friend that I think it would benefit her to have a third party that is a councilor or doctor speak to her about this condition to gain knowledge and coping stategies on how to move forward

How did she respond to that?

Though of course I want to see her be able to regain control of her life as she desires , I have a big fear within myself that merely going from 0-100 in terms of the words she has been using to now telling him out the blue she is seeing someone could cause a dangerous set of circumstances for herself due to the nature of his obessesion jealousy and fixation.

I agree that such a sudden change wouldn't be wise and might put her into danger. Why not gradually ease out of the relationship? E.g. refuse to say things she doesn't want to say and hanging up on him/ending the conversation when he gets abusive? I think the issue is that she is sending very mixed signals to him. On the one hand, she split up and moved away, on the other hand she still talks to him for hours, expresses her feelings for him and basically acts like they were still a couple. If she wants to get rid of him, she needs to assert herself in a calm and unagitated way and stop to cater to his needs. And she needs to drop the 'l want to stay friends' narrative. It doesn't seem like he is interested in that kind of arrangement.