I do not understand why i am at fault when he hurts me?

[Copycat2018]

Hello,
Ithas just happened. After a longer period of relative "peace" my H who is not diagnosed but is a BPD person called me all sorts of names for no particular reason.

This is what went down: i had an issue with our health insurer who has not responded to a problem with billing and thus put me in jeopardy to my bill forwarded to collections and my credit ruined. I tried to resolve this on my own but today i turned to my H for ideas as to what to do. We share the same insurer. It is a somewhat stressful situation but i really tried to handle it lightly and just ask how he sees what else i could do.

The communication between me and the healthinsurer was documented in a series of e mails and he recommended that i print them out right now so that i can have them. I agreed.

Since we have a printer attached to his computer i had to do it on his computer. He started to be nasty towards me for no particular reason and asked if i had printed every e mail. I said yes i think so but i was not sure. He sensed this and he said: do you not know what an e mail is?
I said i do.He said " an e mail is a letter and the response to that dont you know? It is not just what you wrote or they wrote.
This is where the conflict started to escalate: i refused to say that i did not know what an e mail was. I thought the whole spat was stupid. He started to yell how stupid i was, that i did not acknowledge it ever, and called me a lot of ugly names. At that point i refused to respond.
As he was yelling i was scared of him, did not really know what i can say, also, tried not to get angry because if i go there and start throwing things and yelling who knows what can happen... ( getting tired of being the grown up and held in place by his tantrums and threats as well as understanding that if i escalate that only makes things worse)

He does this time to time. He calls me names and puts me down then accuses me of ruining the relationship.
There is no relationship with someone like this because any goodwill built up, he will ruin.
There is no way to build intimacy and trust. Or is there?

I wonder if this is about: him feeling that i am under his thumb, he can abuse me and hurt me to take out his anger of his life on me, him knowing that i am weak, and abuseable?

I know that without outside help, which he completely refuses nothing has changed in the past 15 years.

He lost his job and is living in LaLa Land, his own world, not having to answer to anyone ( he keeps me fearful and avoid conflict since i work 6 days and need to sleep and rest so i avoid fighting)

My question is: is this him seeking power, that he at least if nobody else but he can hurt me?
Is this his power?
Is this what is happening?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Steps31]

Sounds like he is feeling crappy and spewing venom.
I doubt it has anything to do with you...

[Copycat2018]

Hi,
So do i just ignore this behavior? Is it ok then?
He keeps acting like i did something wrong,
What do i do with that?

[Ozzie101]

Hi Copycat!

It does sound like projection. Maybe he was hurt that you didn't tell him about the insurance problem before. Maybe he's ashamed he's not working (meaning you bear the load) and is taking that shame out on you. There are any number of possibilities at play.

I, too, got accused of things that weren't my fault. My H would lash out at the silliest things. In every case, there was something else going on underneath.

You're right to stay calm. You fighting back would probably cause the situation to escalate and you don't want that. Have you ever tried talking him about his behavior during a calm time when he might be more receptive? Or do you think that might trigger another rage?

[Copycat2018]

Hi Ozzie101,

I am quite sure there is a lot going on behind this and just wondering how can we build any relations, closeness with this destroying habit of his.( i believe that he does the destroying for a reason : whenever things get " better" . Maybe he does not want to get close since he lost his mother in his early teens)

I did talk to him in the past about the issues and every time he fought back with a great force, not accepting any responsibility.

He seems to regard himself as a victim, in general.
I am very worried about him, he spends a lot of time alone, and i believe he would benefit from the company of other people a lot.

[Steps31]

I just watched this video on BPD isolating themselves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcRBsLyQXiw&t=443s

[Ozzie101]

I am quite sure there is a lot going on behind this and just wondering how can we build any relations, closeness with this destroying habit of his.( i believe that he does the destroying for a reason : whenever things get " better" . Maybe he does not want to get close since he lost his mother in his early teens)

I did talk to him in the past about the issues and every time he fought back with a great force, not accepting any responsibility.

He seems to regard himself as a victim, in general.
I am very worried about him, he spends a lot of time alone, and i believe he would benefit from the company of other people a lot.

Fear of abandonment (which can be VERY strong in pwBPD -- like my H) causes some people to cling. It causes other to fear commitment and push people away. Sort of an "I'll push you away before you even get a chance to leave me." It makes them feel in control. And it sounds like there's a lot of power and control at play here. If he sees himself as a victim, then that probably makes him feel more powerless, which leads him to exert more control over you -- and so on.

I'm sorry he wasn't receptive but I'm not surprised. Sometimes people are but many times, they're not. In my case, my H did eventually come around and accept responsibility but for a long time, everything was my fault.

When you say "destroy," do you mean literal, physical destruction of property? Or destroying the relationship?

When you don't lose your temper and lash out in response, how DO you respond when he's flying off the handle?

[Leah66]

Hi,
I can relate to your situation entirely. My spouse says mean things and accuses me of not understanding things that I clearly do. I try not to take it personally as I think the angry words come from something unrelated, and perhaps a deep seated insecurity which he projects on to me.
This may or may not be the case with you, but I understand how you feel. Please write to me any time. I get it. Take care

[once removed]

ive known some people that get like this. my ex got like that sometimes.

its kind of a "bullying" mode. it may be the stress that got to him; we are all at our worst in times of stress. some people are also really impatient and judgmental when helping others.

dont get defensive when it happens. dont be indignant. pivot with a mature response.

for starters, i wouldnt respond directly to a question like "do you know what an email is". a direct answer is walking right into being on the defensive, and validating the invalid. treat it as any rhetorical question.

if it escalates, i might do one of two things:

1. thank him for his help, tell him youve got it from here
2. thank him for his help, tell him youre not prepared to discuss this further right now, go back to what you were doing.

but id address it in a time of calm. i might ask, without judgment or emotion, something like "do you really think that im stupid?" (try to deliver this in a neutral tone, or even find a substitute, something else that he said, because it could sound accusatory and like youre looking for a fight) at that point, id do nothing but listen. dont JADE, just listen. maybe he wont recall ever saying it. maybe he will make it clear that it was really about something else and express that frustration. just listen, take it in, reflect, summarize his position, and at the conclusion change the subject.

then after id reflected on it, a few days later, id bring it up again more directly. i might say something like "it hurts my feelings when you insult me/insult my intelligence/call me names/get frustrated with me/whatever (say how you feel)". if we have an issue with things like a bill from a health insurer, i think thats the kind of thing we should approach as a team. can we help each other on this?

what do you think?

[isilme]

When possible, I try to ignore comments or not respond when I can tell it's baiting me into a fight or that he's in a red-alert mood and any response is going to be "wrong".

My H was out of work in the past, and yes, he resented me working, how he felt it made him look, how he felt about himself, how he believed I was talking badly about him to everyone we know (I was not).  I sense that, here.

Choosing to not respond is not saying it's okay.  It's saying it's not worth your time to engage in a fight.  It's saying you refuse to let his emotional dysregulation control your emotions, you are allowed to have your own emotions, and he can have his and they don't need to be enmeshed. 

My question is: is this him seeking power, that he at least if nobody else but he can hurt me?
Is this his power?
Is this what is happening?

Power?  No.  Not the way I interpret you asking.  He is afraid you will find him less desirable if you are the breadwinner.  He thinks you will abandon him first.  Soo, the BPD playbook is to make you feel like leaving or to leave you first, so they can "win".  Either you leave and he can be a victim and point out how it's your fault... or he leaves and points out he chose to leave and it's your fault.  BPD means it cannot be his fault - that's the biggest thing to remember, here.  He is avoiding shame and blame.   Once you can see where the shame or blame is coming from, you can see how it's NOT ABOUT YOU, you are just a convenient target for the rage, anger, and projection of his feelings about himself. 

He feels poorly.  He likely is missing some structure to his day if is his unemployed at the moment, and BPD does better when you have some sort of regular schedule to follow.

Also, I have a theory that if they feel bad, they want us to feel bad, because that is somehow validating to them - misery loves company.  So he will insult you and poke at you to elicit the emotions he needs from you to validate his.  This cycle will continue until you can stop reacting.  I know we all want them to go "get help" but the nature of BPD makes this somewhat of a pipedream and we can't wait for them to go "get help".  The biggest factor is changing our own reactions to them, starve their emotion fires by not feeding them as best as we can.  Once you can look at it as an emotional disability you can take a little less of a sting when he tries to start a fight.  The less you give them to use, the less they finally can start drama.

[Steps31]

isilme, that was very enlightening.

thank you

[Copycat2018]

Hi Ozzie 101,
Thanks so much for your input.
I used to argue with him in the past when these conflicts occured. It was no use. He still insisted i was only at fault and he did everything correctly.

He has never touched me but i find it scary when he breaks things in the house.
Whenever i raised issues no acknowledgement of any personal issues from him.
 I am very reluctant during times when there is relative peace to get into a discussion about the issues we have. I was always, even before i met him, a person who avoided conflict if possible, and as i am getting older i find that i do that avoidance even more then before.

I feel like it is wrong on my part, i am an enabler and that i should take up these fights, and conflicts if anything is ever going to get better.

I feel that if i know any better then him it is my responsibility to do something.

[Copycat2018]

Hello Leah66,

It helps when someone has gone through a similar experience.
Thank you for sharing.

After the conflict in non-verbal ways i was firmly expressing to him that i did not appreciate the experience. He on the other hand non verbally expressed: what is the big deal?
It almost felt like after lashing out at me and calling me names he felt relief.

Usually after these conflicts i can not eat, or sleep well, i am upset for days and he eats away, feels better perhaps then before.
Does that make sense?

[Copycat2018]

Hi Once Removed,

( your name is intriguiging by the way, i like it!)
I very much appreciate your suggestion and i will try it next time, which no doubt, will come.

It did not occur to me to say what you suggested, and i will try it next time.

He appared rather to use this as an opportunity to go off, to let some much accumulated steam off i think.

I did not respond when he asked," do you know what an e mail is? "and he was upset by that, because he was so much in the belief that he caught me in his trap and can squeeze me about my defensiveness and low self esteem, which are his favourite subjects. He says he cannot stand those qualities in me ( and i say, how else do you think i would be here for you to be treated like you treat me?)

I think what you suggest as to discuss this in calm, is great.
If i do not chicken out i will try it.
Thank you!

[Copycat2018]

Hello Isilme,

Thank you for your insight. It seems you have the control to handle your H and challenges  quite well.

It never occured to me to think that he might think i complain about him to anyone because i do not, except on this forum.
But he might think that i think lowly of him and he might feel that as unfair to him.

Ithink i might be confused about the power aspect here.
I personally appreciate the power of self control, inner power that allows one to choose the " right" behavior and build in oneself and others respect and "personal inner power" . His behavior towards me feels like intimidation. Like he wants me to fear him.
As if he said:  if you challenge me this is what you get ( breaking things that ultimately says to me: this could be you ,for example) so, do not challenge me!

While i know that intimidation of another  comes from a feeling of powerlessness, because of my personality i feel i project my fear on him.

In destroying, he does both: property and what goodwill had been built in the relationship before.

My response lately has been not responding. He even asked me, what do you have to say? Several times. I said :" nothing.
I do not want to discuss this further "or something like that.

I get kind of frozen and suprised ( because i always want to think and believe he will change and get better)  and fearful, and i know from past experience that whatever i do, it will not help me.

[Ozzie101]

It actually makes a lot of sense that he would seem to feel better and even relieved after lashing out at you. He needs a valve to release the built-up emotional pressure and, for him, that's you. He's gotten into the habit of using you to dump out all the negative feelings and emotions. My H was the same way.

He also broke things a couple of times and, you're right, it is scary. It's also a form of domestic abuse, which I didn't realize until some fellow members pointed it out here.

And, like you, I was afraid to mention things in calm times for fear of triggering an episode. I've also always been conflict-avoidant. I suspect many others here are too.

Just out of curiosity, do you have (or have you had in the past) a therapist? Sometimes therapists can really help us sort through our own issues and come up with a good, workable plan for handling things. You can't control your partner and how he behaves, but by adjusting your own outlook and reactions, you can achieve change.

[once removed]

He says he cannot stand those qualities in me
...
If i do not chicken out i will try it.

this tells you everything that you need to know.

youll get run over if you see your husband as someone to fear, or respond with fear.

stand on your values. stand on your authenticity. these are where confidence comes from.

[Copycat2018]

Hi Ozzie 101,

I do have a therapist however since i do not have health insurance ( i teach 25 hours on average a week but my employer considers that part time and provides no insurance)since i can not afford paying cash $150 or more for a 50 minute session or $ 50 for a group therapy session that might have 5 or 10 other people,
I have a trainee therapist from a local university and she is very young and very busy so we have not prepared any plan although i made it clear from the beginning that i want to learn to deal with H. Or get out.
She did not help much with either. The so called supervision that she is supposedly getting from her teachers does not show in her actions, she takes no notes during sessions and just goes on what she remembers i guess.

[Copycat2018]

Hi Once Removed,

That is right! I have to gather the courage and step up!
Not as easy to do though!
And, as i had said, it is a deeply ingrained quality of mine, regardless of H.

I know in my head but can not seem to be able to do it.

[Leah66]

Thx copycat 2018. I feel less alone with the issues. Stay in touch.

[Radcliff]

It's great that you're looking for ways to decrease conflict.  Check out this short lesson on ending conflict.  The book,
The High Conflict Couple, is an excellent resource as well.  It's written by a BPD expert and is well worth the read.

RC