Self care is starting now

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

It's tough to reconcile these kinds of discrepancies. For me, it's time. My H didn't "have time" for me and the kids when they were younger. He seemed to make time for his hobbies and family, and things he wanted to do, but was "too busy at work" for me. I spent most time alone with the kids for many years.

I got used to being on my own. Now that the kids are older, I tend to do things on my own. I don't even think of asking my H to join me as I adjusted to him "not making time" for me .

He spends some time with me because he realizes he would look like a jerk if he didn't but any time he has some spare time to himself, the first thing he does is spend time on his hobbies.

I'd like to believe he enjoys my company but it's hard to believe that he does considering his actions. If I really admit it, I'm resentful of his not choosing to spend time with me when he has it. But I can't make someone choose to do something if they really don't want to. I've gone on with my own interests and activities.

Even though I don't crave a fancy ring, if I saw my H constantly spending lavishly on other people and not me, I'd resent it. It's not the cost or quantity, it's the proportion of resources and the discrepancy. It is hurtful to not feel like your spouse values you.

[Notwendy]

It's tough to reconcile these kinds of discrepancies. For me, it's time. My H didn't "have time" for me and the kids when they were younger. He seemed to make time for his hobbies and family, and things he wanted to do, but was "too busy at work" for me. I spent most time alone with the kids for many years.

I got used to being on my own. Now that the kids are older, I tend to do things on my own. I don't even think of asking my H to join me as I adjusted to him "not making time" for me .

He spends some time with me because he realizes he would look like a jerk if he didn't but any time he has some spare time to himself, the first thing he does is spend time on his hobbies.

I'd like to believe he enjoys my company but it's hard to believe that he does considering his actions. If I really admit it, I'm resentful of his not choosing to spend time with me when he has it. But I can't make someone choose to do something if they really don't want to. I've gone on with my own interests and activities.

Even though I don't crave a fancy ring, if I saw my H constantly spending lavishly on other people and not me, I'd resent it. It's not the cost or quantity, it's the proportion of resources and the discrepancy. It is hurtful to not feel like your spouse values you.

[formflier]

  It was my turn to be in a rage.
 
H and I ended the evening in an argument over his cheapness, and H told me my dislike of his "well considered" jewellery gifts was a slap in his face.  I replied, "No, get it straight!  Your gift to me was a slap in MY face!"

Couldn't both of your points of view be correct?

Is it ever a helpful thing to rage?

FF

[Red5]

Over the years… I've tried "gifting" my uBPDw into "loving neutrality"… in order to try to 'quell' the BPD'ism's… most times, to no avail.

Don't get me wrong, I love her, and I like buying her nice things… when I'm in her good graces, and even when I'm not… she on the other hand, can wield quite hurtful responses back my way… like the time she placed the dozen roses into the toilet bowl… that hurt : (

Gifting... as in, if I 'shower' her with nice things, expensive gifts, then maybe she wont "whack" me so hard, and with such frequency… sadly, over the long term, it didn't work…

I've heard this type of behavior (me) as being a 'hostage situation'… or an element of "fog"… (uBPDw) "its my birthday, its "my" anniversary, it's Christmas… it's _____ .  So you better 'deliver' the goods Red5, (mind meld/reading) or you're going to get it (WHACK)… she starts Christmas shopping in July!… I've heard her say many times… "its so and so's birthday, I'd BETTER get them a card, or I wont hear the end of it"…

This is 'programing' from 'Foo'… ie' mum and dad, I could write volumes in regard to subject.

And I've done my part in the 'invalidation' arena as well, case in point those damn blue diamond earrings I mentioned earlier, I should have never 'brought' them into that "all nightery" argument we were having, but that was eleven years ago now?… and she still hauls that one out when she is "wound up"… ; (

Its funny now, but I used to think, if I drop the "big one"… ie' a brand spanking new 2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee (loaded)… in her favorite color (burgundy), and throw in a "Native American" custom made license plate… then she wont "whack" me over the head with her "shalaylee" anytime gain soon… cakes and pies, happy happy joy joy… WRONG !

I've thought about this a lot, basically, we as the "Non" in the relationship, thinking that the pw/BPD is ever going to "come over to the portside" with us, ie' the way we think, the way we want things to go, the way we perceive the relationship (healthy) should be… well, that probably ain't never going to happen… they are who they are, can a person "change" sure they can, but they have to want too, that's the Rubicon here, that's the code book that HAS to go along with Enablers enigma machine, he found in the alleyway behind "Bletchley Park"…

My uBPDw really likes her Cherokee, as far as I know, she is still driving it, I've only seen her in it… about three times over the last four months, as we are separated now… I'm still making the payments on it, and the insurance… and its a good safe, and dependable vehicle or her, kinda like "Red5"…

I'm sorry your in the "midst" of all this AskingWhy… we all know how difficult, and heartbreaking it is when our pw/BPD lets us down, over and over… and our own feelings, needs, and "wants" are never validated… its a tough spot, and it weighs heavy on our minds… and our hearts : (

This is why, we as the Non, must have our own self sustained support system, we cannot, I'm afraid, depend on our pw/BPD to sustain us, its always in "jeopardy" it seems… as in, we have got to be "happy in our own skin"… as in we have to be independent within the marriage/relationship… and we have to wear "chainmail" most of the time, so as to not absorb the many "invalidations" from our significant others... and we have to understand, that what we experience from day to day, week to week, on out to decades… is "part and parcel" of a life, we live with a pw/BPD…

Hang in there AW, and take care of yourself, self sooth, you may very well have to "build your own happiness", you and your husband seem to me… using a silly metaphor here... are like two protected battle cruisers sitting in their berths, at anchor in Montevideo Harbor… both very beautiful, sleek, fast and powerful… and both very adept at taking care of yourselves… but also very capable of inflicting damage upon each other in a moment… on one cruiser the language is German, and on the other, the "Kings English"… and when you do trade signals… very often; much is lost in the translations… and sometimes, the complete wrong message is sent… and then its "battle stations"… and out swing the big guns… not good : (

I can completely understand how you want your husband to relate to you, your needs, and wants in the marriage, you are his wife, and you want him to love and respect you, and treat you as the number one person in his life… we all do this in our own relationships… but it just doesn't happen the way we want it too… my own uBPDw tells me I don't value her, and that I don't respect her… (whack)… I've tried, but there have been too many "whacks" over my grape with that shalaylee she keeps at the ready ALL the time (pbd anger & rage)… over the years I've become worn down, and exasperated… empathy turned to apathy… eg' this is the ways its always going to be"… "she's never going to change, she will only get worse"… so forth and so on… its very hard to keep our heads, and our hearts in these relationships… we all know this.

Seems there should be an element of "mutual respect, and companionship", between these two "battle cruisers" sitting at anchor in this beautiful South American Harbor... er' marriage… …

Hang in there AskingWhy!

Red5
 

[Cat Familiar]

Hi AskingWhy,
What I’m hearing from you is the pain of feeling like you’re always a second-class citizen in your husband’s mind.

Your love language is Gifts and it’s been obvious that your husband puts more thought and generosity into gifts for his children than he does in his gifts to you.

For once, you’d like to feel that you’re number one in his mind, but you feel like an afterthought.

It sounds lik you’ve run out of hope for any improvement in your relationship. How are you managing on a day to day basis?

Cat

[AskingWhy]

Thank you all for the very long, thoughtful replies.

@Enabler, if H resents the gifts he gets me, then that's my boundary and his hard cheese.  My constantly having to do without while he showers his adult children has been insulting over the years.  Your conscious choice to continue giving is your response; mine is to draw that all-important boundary for a pwBPD.  If your SO kept raging and hitting you, would you continue to make excuses for her/his behaviour? Certainly not.  You would make a boundary.

@Notwendy, thank you for your comments of support.  It is indeed painful to see your H gift his children (and himself) that is so out of proportion to what he gives his own W.  You are correct in that it's the proportion and not the gifts themselves.  

@FF, this is indeed the time for me to rage and speak my discontent.  Someone who takes abuse over and over without protest is a masochist who chooses to accept being hurt, insulted or ignored for some perverse reason.  Some of us are masochists.  They take insults and pain without protest.

@Red5, you are on target about BPDs "not getting it."  My H would never "get it" that his going over board with his adult children if I said nothing.  It's like the time H was at a restaurant with me, one of his Ds and her boyfriend, and H was all eyes for his D, ignoring me and the BF and then tickling and pinching his D playfully to the point of discomfort for me and the boyfriend.  The D is almost 30 as is her BF, and I wonder what was going through his head to witness this display.  I know it's part of splitting and part of BPD, but that does not make it appropriate.  Raging, breaking things and DV are part of BPD, and that is not healthy either.  I later mentioned it to H and he said he was unaware that it must have looked bad to the BF.  The lack of self-awareness is a part of BPD.  And, yes, I was let down time and time again.  I am getting tired of it.

@Cat, yes, I am hurt to the point of anger now. H's love language is gifts--but not for me.  He is generous to his children and himself, and I must "work" to receive anything of value.  My "usefulness" in his life is the gauge as to whether or not I "deserve" something.  A case in point of this is the "just because" skis he bought one of his Ds because "she's a good" young woman.  No reason at all, and out of the blue.  He knew she wanted them, so he gave her the money for them just to see the light and joy in her eyes.  I clearly don't merit "just because" gifts.

In conclusion, I have to "win" H's favour in order to get a gift.  I have to demonstrate that I am "worthy" of anything.  H complains about the housekeeping and I am often not up to do this.  I have medical issues and, honestly, am so depressed that I came barely motivate myself to get our of bed in the morning.  The pets force me up as they need to be fed, litter boxes cleaned, and they keep me going.  My H is showing his NPD side just as his father did to his mother:  a W is only of use to a H for what she can provide for him in her labor.  That's not love; that's BPD and wanting an NPD feed.  

Every R/S with a BPD and a non has a breaking point or turning point.  For some, it's abuse of the pets or children, or DV.  Those are non negotiable.  For me, this might seem petty, but it may well be the turning point.My T and I have discussed the jewellery as a symbol of what is going on in the marriage. I think it is a turning point. My heart is now totally hardened to H and his children, who are all selfish and in the BPD/BPD spectrum.  (I have seen them dysregulate, get fired from jobs, use and abuse people, act out sexually, become addicted to substances, and do unethical things, including verbally abusing me.)  This is new to me.  I am an open and very generous person.  I like to help others.  I like being nice and delighting others.  My family has said this of me many times.  As Notwendy pointed out, its is not the gifts alone, but the proportion of them that is unequal.  It is not in my nature to harden my heart to others, but the time has come for me to do this to H and his children.   I am not a masochist and tired of standing by watching others banquet while I starve.  

[Enabler]

@Enabler, if H resents the gifts he gets me, then that's my boundary and his hard cheese.  My constantly having to do without while he showers his adult children has been insulting over the years.  Your conscious choice to continue giving is your response; mine is to draw that all-important boundary for a pwBPD.  If your SO kept raging and hitting you, would you continue to make excuses for her/his behaviour? Certainly not.  You would make a boundary.

Morning Askingwhy,

I see boundaries a bit differently you. You are correct, if my W was screaming and hitting me I would take action, likely I would remove myself from the situation or if it persisted I would ensure my safety (emotional and physical) was forcibly protected either by distance or by authority (police maybe). In this situation my W would be doing something TO ME. I would be identifying some action that my W was carrying out and I would take appropriate action.

What is the action that your H is doing? What is the boundary you have? What is the action YOU will be taking?

You answer could look something like this:

- The behaviour I will not tolerate is that my husband does not buy me expensive diamond rings. If he doesn't buy me an expensive diamond ring for my next birthday, I will divorce him.

How does that look?

Or..

The behaviour I will not tolerate is that my husband does not buy me expensive diamond rings. If he doesn't buy me an expensive diamond ring for my next birthday, I will buy one for myself out of communal funds.

Any better?

See I have a problem with this in as far as it's not what your husband is doing to you, it's what he is not doing to you, and the thing that he is not giving you is special treatment. What's the boundary? You must not give special treatment to other people unless you have given me special treatment first? What if he thinks you don't deserve special treatment? What if he thinks he's already given you special treatment by providing you with a nice home and nice car (just an example, I don't know). Your current boundary attempts to determine how someone else illustrates their respect/love for you... 

Do you buy your H special things? Do you give him special treatment? I just wonder if in his mind he thinks, "AskingWhy is an adult, she can sort herself out, she has money she could spend". I don't know.

My personal choice is to focus on how I treat other people and how I treat myself. What other people DON'T do for me is up to them. I can always choose to stop doing the kind things to them whenever I choose to. I've ditched the slate, it killed me as I was keeping score. I buy my W (who is divorcing me) thoughtful but not over the top gifts for birthdays and Christmas, because I choose to continue to be kind in the face of her contempt... and frankly I think she hates it, but simultaneously see's something in me she can't quite figure out and make sense of... It's that old Christian teaching shining through. I'm the one with integrity and I intend on keeping an iron fist grip on it. It's a choice, not codependancy.

Enabler

[formflier]

Probably a good place to make sure we have our words right.

When you are talking about "rage" and "raging" would a fly on the wall wonder if you are the pwBPD?

or...

Did you mean that you were "assertive" and "stood up for yourself"?

Best,

FF

[AskingWhy]

Wow! There seems to be a lot of gender disparity in this thread on supporting me while I suffer the actions of my uBPD H!  The women overwhelmingly understand and commiserate (thank you for your support, Red!   ) while Enabler and FF seem to want to point out the role I play in mismanaging the situation with my uBPD H.

@FF  Yes, by "rage," I mean exasperation. Yes, I lost it.  Maybe I should have said "livid and indignant."  And anyone seeing the situation for what it was would never mistake that I was BPD.  I am insulted this was inferred. I was very, very hurt and upset over my H's actions and attention he pays to me, and the disproportionate attention and money spent on his adult children.  You cannot begin to understand the hurt I feel.  This is what happens when a woman reaches the end of her empathy rope and can't take the abuse any longer.

Enabler   We all have our own ways of coping with a BPD partner, and each of us has a different threshhold and limit on what is tolerable.  One woman will respond to a fist raised at her in anger with a divorce; another woman will have black eyes, choking and broken limbs and still stay with her BPD or NPD H.  You, due to your own marriage, seem fixated on the issue of the jewellery and accuse me of money grubbing.  This has already been settled at the beginning of the thread.  The jewellery must be seen in the context of the way my H treats me in comparison with his adult children, and a symbol of what I am not getting in the marriage.  And, yes, I do spend a disproportionate amount of money on my H when he makes three times what I do.  Maybe you did not see this, but I spent $300 on valentines Day gifts on him (electronics and a designer jacket), while he just bought me flowers and two cheap boxes of chocolates--and not the luxury brand.

It's interesting to see earlier in this thread how the women were supportive of me, one even relating her own experience with a miserly husband and wedding ring, and the more recent men's comments as inferring that I am not giving enough empathy, and the other has a semantics question on the definition of "rage."

And simply putting a roof over a woman's head is not enough. Here is a great site on why marriages fail and how couples misread each other with divorce as the unhappy result:

I cannot link this because of the vulgar word in the URL, but the site is, "Must Be This Tall To Ride," or "An Open Letter to Sh*tty Husbands."  Even a man who thinks he is doing a great job might be, in fact, regarded as a sh*tty husband by his own wife.  Please read it.




 

[Harri]

This thread has been locked at the OP's request.