My mother does not have BPD. However…

[Beneck]

Hey guys! 

I came to this community almost 6 months ago due to a breakup with a person with BPD. Early on, after sharing some stuff, I was encouraged to post in this board in order to explore my childhood and past.

So.

My mother…

My mother has had it rough, in her life.

Her mother (my grandmother) suffered from an autoimmune kidney disease.

My mother's father died when she was 3 years old, and by the time she was 17, both her mother and brother had died.

My father was the doctor responsible for her mother’s case. That’s how my mother met my father, when she was just 14, though they wouldn’t get together until she was 18.

My mother had described to me how my father was, at that point in time, the only one to care about her. Co-dependency on my father’s part? Probably.

Their marriage wasn’t a happy one. My mother had told me, numerous times, how my father would dictate what she would wear or what music she should listen to.

Then I was conceived and later, born. My mother has said she would spend a lot of time with me, though my father not so much (though I have pictures of me and my father playing when I was very little).

Eventually, my father cheated on her, and they broke up.

My father moved to another city eventually, so I spent time with my mother, until I had to move with my father due to financial difficulties.

Living with my father was alright. I had some great times, though he got married again and my stepmother and I didn’t have the best relationship. During this time, I’d miss my mother a lot, until I moved in with her at about 10/11 years old.

Sadly, living with my mother wasn’t as harmonious as I hoped it would have been. My father had pampered me and I didn’t know how to do any chores, so me and my mother would fight often.

I also was extremely absent-minded and I’d forget stuff all the time.

My mother would tell me to pay more attention, to help more around the house etc. I did my best to do so but for some reason I just couldn’t change. I’d do my best for 1-2 days and then revert to the previous pattern.

Then my mother made a good friend, and she’d have him help me out with my studies (my grades were really good in primary school, but had dropped in middle school).

I dreaded my lessons with this person, and both him and my mother would become increasingly frustrated at me not being able to learn. He was my mother’s friend, so I wanted to be his friend, but I ended up hating him.

I remember at one point, I figured that if I’m making my mother unhappy, I don’t love her. I wanted to kill myself… thankfully, I never did!

Nevertheless, my relationship with my mother’s friend kept worsening, until my mother decided enough was enough and stopped our lessons.

Not far later, my mother learned that her friend had gone back to taking drugs. She tried to help him as she could, but ended up being abused and being recipient of horrible behaviors. Eventually, she had him out of her life, forever.

Later, when I was 15-16, my mother met another man. By that point, my mother was 36 and the man in his early 20’s. 

Our relationship was good at first. I wanted my mother to have another chance at love, anyway. They got married.

Then my mother got pregnant with twins. She decided to keep the babies.

Slowly but surely however, the husband’s behavior started worsening. I figured that, since no matter how good I was to him, he’d treat me badly whenever he felt or things weren’t going his way, I stopped trying. This was a period of important exams for me, and eventually, I ended up isolating myself from the rest of the family.

When at home, I’d leave my room as rarely as possible, though I would also find excuses to leave the house in general. I grew extremely apathetic and learned to cause my emotional responses to be extremely shallow in order to deal with the situation. It worked, but it did have its negative points :p

Oftentimes, my mother’s husband would go out for business or just leisure, and I’d have to help my mother with my twin brothers.

My mother’s husband was quite abusive towards her, mostly verbally. She ended up developing arteriosclerosis and had to have surgery for it, though her husband always claimed there was nothing wrong with her.

Eventually my mother got pregnant again, and had another child. I remember talking to her in the hospital, telling her she shouldn’t have had the 3rd child.

My mother later admitted she had 4 children as a way to “replace” the family she had lost when she was young.

At about this time (I think), I managed, with the help of my father and by finding a roommate, to leave my mother’s house.

During this time, my relationship with my mother was extremely distant. I remember growing extremely resentful of how my mother would need something, no matter how small, when she called me. She demanded help on grounds that she was my mother. It took me a while to outgrow that line of thought. By respecting my time and my life, I got my mother to do the same.

I wasn’t all innocent either, and there were situations I could have handled a lot better. I wasn’t all that enthusiastic or eager to talk to my mother, and we eventually had a fight. She had said that If I didn’t want to talk to her, I was free not to. We didn’t talk for a month, when she got into contact with me again. Childish, really, on behalf of both of us.

Then, her husband threatened my mother with a knife. My mother called the police, and that’s what started their divorce. In the days that followed, it felt like I got my mother back. Our relationship has been improving ever since.

That’s not to say that it’s not without its hiccups. She still drives me nuts sometimes. And yet she has improved and matured tremendously these last years. She’s being responsible for her children and handling her ex-husband and his antics as best as she could. She’s very recently signed up for therapy and counseling and I’m feeling very optimistic about the potential changes.

As for me, I’ve started to identify what behaviors drive ME nuts and are making an effort to NOT make things worse under pressure or in the heat of the moment. My mother can be quite emotionally reactive, and so can I :p

Another thing that I’ve noticed that could be making things worse is my ambivalent motivation. Sometimes I want to grow closer to her, other times I want to grow further apart. I think that sticking to the first and making a consistent effort is my best bet.
The thing is, I’ve noticed that in some ways, my relationship with my BPD ex mirrored my relationship with my mother, and I really want to explore that. So, my question is 3-fold:

1)   What can I do to learn things about myself from my mother and my relationship with her?

2)   My mother can be emotionally reactive, and I have the tendency to have limited patience with her sometimes. Any tips to improve the relationship, just in general?

3)   Do you think that experiences described above could have helped mold me into a co-dependent individual?

Thank you for your time!

[Harri]

Hi Beneck and welcome to the PSI board!  Thanks for sharing your story and reaching out to us.  We may not have all the answers but we can help you as you figure things out.

The thing is, I’ve noticed that in some ways, my relationship with my BPD ex mirrored my relationship with my mother, and I really want to explore that.

Sometimes listing out the behaviors can help, either here or on paper. 

1)   What can I do to learn things about myself from my mother and my relationship with her?

I would start with reading about emotional abuse.   It sounds like some of that may have been going on at least in terms of her expectations and demands on you.  We talk about something here called emotional or covert incest where a parent will lean on their child emotionally the way they would a spouse.  Was Part of Your Childhood Deprived by Emotional Incest? Read through it and see if anything resonates and then we will have a place to start looking at things.  Even if it does not resonate, it might help give a clearer picture.

2)   My mother can be emotionally reactive, and I have the tendency to have limited patience with her sometimes. Any tips to improve the relationship, just in general?

This is a tough one.    The same tools you have learned in your relationship skills work will apply here.  That included boundary work and self care when you just aren't in the right frame of mind to deal with things.  SET works, as does validation when applicable. 

Can you give some examples though so we can help you?

3)   Do you think that experiences described above could have helped mold me into a co-dependent individual?

I think it is possible for sure, certainly in terms of being a caretaker, allowing boundaries to be violated (or perhaps more accurately having blurred boundaries).  Think of this line that you wrote here: 

I remember at one point, I figured that if I’m making my mother unhappy, I don’t love her. I wanted to kill myself… thankfully, I never did!

First, I too am thankful you did not kill yourself     What you learned here is a good description of what causes many people to be rescuers.  Even if logically you know this is not true, you learned this as a kid and that belief may be buried deep and affect you on an emotional level that can be tied to behaviors.  Ever have the experience of doing something you know is not good and you know better but it is like you are on auto pilot? 

Thoughts?   

[Turkish]

Compelling and well told story!

Welcome to PSI.

My mother was orphaned at 12 by her mother,  then at 14 by her father. Her siblings had been living their adult lives. She emancipated herself at 16 when living with her sister and her husband wasn't going well.  It's a story of loss,  like your mother's.  My mother was a hoarder too.

It horrified me when I realized that my ex in many ways was emotionally so similar to my mother, though my mother lacks my ex's Narc traits.

I wouldn't go so far as to pathologize my dynamic as trying to rescue an avatar of my mother; rather,  that I did what was familiar to me.  You know what you know and don't know what toy don't know.  I realized a pattern. 

I'm glad that you are seeking to improve your relationship with her.  From what you describe, she doesn't sound BPD. The tools,  however,  work with anybody and any relationship.  You might want to digest the lessons in the "Tools' pull-down at the top of the site.

What are your thoughts?

[Beneck]

Hey Harri!

Read through it and see if anything resonates and then we will have a place to start looking at things.  Even if it does not resonate, it might help give a clearer picture.

So, I read the article.

Some of the things listed in it do resonate with me and my experiences, living with my mother.

I do clearly remember for instance, my mother crying and me comforting her (I was 12 or so). I don’t think we assumed these roles on purpose, but it was something that happened gradually; I wanted to help my mother since I loved her.

This is a tough one.    The same tools you have learned in your relationship skills work will apply here.

Got it! Sort of assumed so anyway, and I’ve noticed that the tools are helping anyway, but I thought that maybe there could have been something specific I didn’t know about!

Can you give some examples though so we can help you?

Sure!

So, at one point, my mother was short on money (mostly because of her ex-husband, who sometimes pays child support late or not all of it)

My mother told me that she needed some specific goods, such as bread and coffee. I let her know I didn’t have any money, but that I was getting paid soon.

So a couple of days later, I reminded my mother I was getting paid and that I’d help her out. I checked during the first day, but the money hadn’t been added to the bank account.

So, during the second day, I let my mother know I’d check just before going to work, I’d go to work (5pm to 9pm) and afterwards, we’d meet and I’d give her the money.

So my mother asked why couldn’t we meet before me going to work. Truth is, I didn’t want my schedule to be disrupted. I figured that if my mother had waited so long, she could wait just a little bit longer. I also thought that me going to work on time was important.

So my mother pushed. She complained and said she hadn’t coffee for X amount of days, etc. I told her that I’m sorry about that, but there was nothing I could do about that and that we’d meet immediately after work for that.

She grew mad. She said “Forget it, I don’t want anything from you.” And she hanged up. During all of that, I didn’t do/say anything. Absolutely nothing. I thought it was very important to not make matters worse and not to escalate the situation.

Half an hour later, she called me to apologize, telling me that me saying it wasn’t my problem really hurt her (I never said that, BUT I did say there was nothing I could do about that, which is kinda similar. I think her high emotional intensity at that moment distorted her perception of reality, slightly).

So we made amends, I got to work, we met afterwards, she apologized and laughed about how she had considered blocking me on Facebook at the time. I think she sort of realized how immature she had being :p

So, did I handle that well? Anything I could have done better?

What you learned here is a good description of what causes many people to be rescuers.  Even if logically you know this is not true, you learned this as a kid and that belief may be buried deep and affect you on an emotional level that can be tied to behaviors.  Ever have the experience of doing something you know is not good and you know better but it is like you are on auto pilot?

I know what you mean. I read somewhere on the boards here that the brain of the child assumes behaviors that ensure the attention of the primary caregiver. So I suppose that, in that sense, me blaming myself made a lot more sense that blaming my mother for our fights. What good is it to think like that, if my survival depends on her?

In regards to autopilot… yes! But mostly in regards to procrastinating or being unproductive. In a way, it’s like watching yourself as an external observer, being unable to stop yourself from wasting time. Interestingly, it’s gotten A LOT better as I’ve grown up.

In regards to being “plagued by difficulties”, I do seem to experience “Love/hate relationship with offending parent”, “Difficulty in maintaining relationships due to abused individual’s idealization and devaluation of others and an inappropriate expectations placed on partners”, “Patterns of excessive triangulation (indirect communication) in work, family or romantic relationships” to a small, manageable extent.

…

Hey Turkish!

My mother was orphaned at 12 by her mother,  then at 14 by her father. Her siblings had been living their adult lives. She emancipated herself at 16 when living with her sister and her husband wasn't going well.  It's a story of loss,  like your mother's.  My mother was a hoarder too.

Alright, that’s very interesting! I think our mothers have gone through experiences which are somewhat similar. I’m starting to think that such experiences, early on in a person’s life, can result to emotional immaturity and reactivity. I don’t know if your mother did anything specific about her feelings, but mine decided to have a family of her own. In a way, now that I think of it, it’s almost as if she had children in order to have them help her regulate her emotions. Do you know if your mother did something similar, do you think it’s possible?

In regards to hoarding, I wouldn’t say my mother is a hoarder, but I’ve definitely had trouble getting rid of objects in the past, and so does my ex (currently). Thankfully, it’s gotten way better.

It horrified me when I realized that my ex in many ways was emotionally so similar to my mother, though my mother lacks my ex's Narc traits. I wouldn't go so far as to pathologize my dynamic as trying to rescue an avatar of my mother; rather,  that I did what was familiar to me.  You know what you know and don't know what toy don't know.  I realized a pattern. 

I think my mother really used to resemble my ex, in terms of emotional maturity, in the past. But there was a lot of familiarity I think in the role I would assume with each one of them, the support I provided, its form, etc. The 2 of them still are extremely different in some aspects, but it seems what was familiar was how I’d behave to each one of them, as well as the role I’d assume in my relationship with each one of them.

I'm glad that you are seeking to improve your relationship with her.  From what you describe, she doesn't sound BPD. The tools, however,  work with anybody and any relationship.  You might want to digest the lessons in the "Tools' pull-down at the top of the site.

Yup, the tools definitely work, and I’ve seen it first-hand! Now, I’ve already read them, but I will do it again, as re-checking them periodically yields greater insight.

…

Thoughts?

What are your thoughts?

Ok, so…

My relationship with my BPD ex has really helped me grow, I think. And in some cases, it’s helped me see things for what they are and to start having realistic expectations about others (and myself).

I think something quite similar happened to my mother with her narcissistic traits ex-husband. She grew through all of it, though she did pay a price (having that man as the father of your children is no easy task).

I think both of my parents have been growing up alongside me, all this time. I never truly realized, until recently. Me, my mother and my father all have matured and grown all these years, and that is very fortunate, despite any sort of harm or abuse I may have sustained.

Recently, I told a friend of mine about my mother, who is 44 years old, maturing and growing. He laughed, as he found it very bizarre. For me, it is neither funny, nor bizarre, nor awkward. It just is. My mother is 44 years old and she is still growing up. I think that’s great.

Sometimes, I find myself being careful in regards to my boundaries with my mother. I try to be there for her, always, but not to solve her problems for her. So, sometimes I find myself feeling like her parent, in that regard. I feel a little bit resentful about that, sometimes, but a lot less than I used to.

My ex may have brought me here, but it all goes way deeper, I think. Going back to it all and establishing a healthier relationship with my mother has the potential to really help both of us increase our self-differentiation ;) Who knows? But something tells me I can truly heal from this, and in a way, even regain a piece of me I never knew I had lost in the first place.

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi Beneck,

FWIW, I'm 41 and still growing up and maturing. I don't think it's bizarre or funny or awkward, either. I think it's awesome that you recognize progress in your mom, and that you acknowledge the positive in that.

Some of us didn't have parents that taught us the necessary tools and skills to handle life as an adult. Finding your own way through that is hard, but it seems that you and your mom (who is still young, BTW!) are both making an effort to do that, and I commend you both for it.

[Beneck]

Hey I Am Redeemed!

Hi Beneck,

FWIW, I'm 41 and still growing up and maturing. I don't think it's bizarre or funny or awkward, either. I think it's awesome that you recognize progress in your mom, and that you acknowledge the positive in that.

Some of us didn't have parents that taught us the necessary tools and skills to handle life as an adult. Finding your own way through that is hard, but it seems that you and your mom (who is still young, BTW!) are both making an effort to do that, and I commend you both for it.

Thank you for your kind words!

I now realize that my comment may have been a bit insensitive, to be honest with you. Thank you for chiming in and sharing your thoughts.

In the past, I think I would have totally thought of it as bizarre. But recent experiences have opened my mind, to say the least.

My mother has been through a lot and it's obvious that she's figuring some things out for herself just now. I don't think her father's premature death or her mother's severe illness gave her the room she required to experience a normal childhood and grow naturally.

But it's beyond commendable to see that she's doing her best to not only assume responsibilty for herself, but also be a responsible mother for my 3 younger siblings as well, despite her ex-husband doing his best to mess with that.

She's handled things really well and I'm immensely proud of her. Sure, she drives me crazy sometimes, but I think it's bound to happen when the going gets tough; it's all about (I think) the high neuroticism and emotional sensitivity but learning to handle these intense instinctual responses, she can go a long way! She's already miles ahead of what she used to be, say, 5 years ago! If that's not great, I don't know what is!

As someone who shares (to an extent) the high neuroticism, it can be quite difficult not to make things worse when dealing with a very emotionally charged event.

All in all, it would be hypocritical of me not to recognize my mother's progress.

[I Am Redeemed]

No, not insensitive. I can understand why some people might think a person in their forties should be stable and mature by now. But some people don't face the opposition or obstacles that others do.

I can relate to your mom, from what you told us here. Bad marriages, having kids to replace the family she didn't have (I have six!), neuroticism, emotional reactivity. I get it. And I also realize that her being unequipped to handle a lot of things had an impact on you. It's understandable that your relationship is hard sometimes, but you seem to be a very strong, conscientious and caring young man, with a high degree of self awareness and insight.

I hope you and your mom continue to grow and progress, and your relationship blossoms. Life really is about growth. We will always have something to learn.

All the best,

Redeemed

[Turkish]

Honest story, Beneck, and well written.

I always felt ambivalent, as you say, about my mother.  Do you love her?  

Personally, I do, yet struggle with it given how society thinks a child should love a mother.