Spouse unable/unwilling to forgive BPD daughter again

[Tazzer4000]

My husband claims to be done with our BPD16 daughter. He wants as little to do with her as possible and claims he can't wait till she is old enough to permanently move out. She has put all of us through the ringer but him most of all. He has tried to trust her again but she repeatedly breaks that trust. I understand where he's coming from but I don't understand how he can just want to cut her out of our lives.

Has anyone else felt this way or had their spouse tell them they feel this way? He says he doesn't want a relationship with her at all, that she has blown up that bridge, so to speak. I personally don't understand how you give up on your child. The need to let go in live, yes and that may come for me. But to give up and shut them out I don't understand. Any advice is appeciated.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[once removed]

what happened? how did she break his trust?

[Tazzer4000]

She has been physically aggressive and verbally viscious towards him. We believe she has been intentionally trying to get him to hurt her to break up our marriage and or get him out in jail. She has told me she believes I should love her more than him and resents that I don't. She sees him as an obstacle to her getting what she wants because she has been able to manipulate me in the past but not him. She's in detention for now, but at some point she will come home and I really want them to at least get along. Not sure how that can happen when neither of them wants to let go of the past and move forward.

[once removed]

She has told me she believes I should love her more than him and resents that I don't.

thats quite a statement. how did you respond to that?

[Swimmy55]

Would he be willing to go to therapy?   And /or he may have a different attitude once she has insight ( which may or may not happen).  It sounds like he is shutting down.  Like not knowing how to deal so won't.  I have that in my family with my son ( although he is 25, not a child).  His Grandfather and Uncle are done after this latest episode.  Both are authoritarian ( my way or the high way ) types.  My son's Dad was the same for the longest but now is sort of helping him out since he can't stay with me.

[FaithHopeLove]

I agree with Swimmy. Your husband does seem to be shutting down. It seems like this is just too much for him. I suspect he really does love your daughter but is at the end of his rope right now, which is understandable given the nature of this illness and how it causes our loved ones to act. Is couple's therapy an option?

[snowglobe]

Hello Tazer,
I’m sorry you are going through a turmoil with your daughter and her father. Like other members here I can relate. My undiagnosed borderline husband is frequently telling me that he is done with our daughter 15. They mimic each other in many aspects and he can’t stand her. He tells me that he can’t wait for her to move out one day, and then telling me that he leant want her to go away to university. Do you see any similarities in their behaviour. More often then not, borderlines mimic each other, not to suggest or assume and dysfunction coming from your husband. I just leave the room and don’t engage in this conversation. By law, your husband is obligated to support her until she becomes an adult 18/19 years of age. He can be sued for alimonies and or child support. Living with a child with BPD is a constant struggle, a mantra “I’m an adult, she is a child” helped me in the past. If you take the fact that BPD is 50% nature and 50% nurture, there has to be a part of your husband being partially responsible for the way she turned out. As an adult he has to accept and deal with the consequences

[Tazzer4000]

thats quite a statement. how did you respond to that?

I said, I'm not sure from who or where you got that idea, but it isn't true. We are raising you to grow up, leave, and have your own life. When your gone we have each other. In a healthy relationship, the couples love is foremost and the foundation of the family.

[Tazzer4000]

I agree with Swimmy. Your husband does seem to be shutting down. It seems like this is just too much for him. I suspect he really does love your daughter but is at the end of his rope right now, which is understandable given the nature of this illness and how it causes our loved ones to act. Is couple's therapy an option?

He is starting therapy on Monday. I'm not sure we need couples counseling.  For the most part our relationship is good. It's this one issue that could pose a problem when she finally comes home. I think I'll take a wait and see approach since he's starting therapy.  Maybe it will help him be able to cope better and he won't feel this way and shut down.

Thanks to all of you. I just needed to know this is a normal response that can be worked through. It's scary to hear your spouse talk that way about one of your kids.

[Tazzer4000]

Hello Tazer,
I’m sorry you are going through a turmoil with your daughter and her father. Like other members here I can relate. My undiagnosed borderline husband is frequently telling me that he is done with our daughter 15. They mimic each other in many aspects and he can’t stand her. He tells me that he can’t wait for her to move out one day, and then telling me that he leant want her to go away to university. Do you see any similarities in their behaviour. More often then not, borderlines mimic each other, not to suggest or assume and dysfunction coming from your husband. I just leave the room and don’t engage in this conversation. By law, your husband is obligated to support her until she becomes an adult 18/19 years of age. He can be sued for alimonies and or child support. Living with a child with BPD is a constant struggle, a mantra “I’m an adult, she is a child” helped me in the past. If you take the fact that BPD is 50% nature and 50% nurture, there has to be a part of your husband being partially responsible for the way she turned out. As an adult he has to accept and deal with the consequences

No, he generally is a very calm reasonable person but somewhat strict with rules. That I've come to understand was a big contributor to this in that I'm a very laid back disciplinarian. Some of the time we would be on the same page. Enough of the time for the older 2 to be fine. But the inconsistency I think helped lead to this. For the last 9 months we were being extremely consistent,  no wiggle room, but she just kept escalating. I know behavior gets worse before it gets better. But she got so extreme it is now out of our hands. He knows he is responsible for her till 18, it just bothered me that he's counting the days.

[once removed]

I said, I'm not sure from who or where you got that idea, but it isn't true.

im sure that it isnt true. im sure that you love your daughter with all of your heart.

people with BPD traits have inherent trust issues and fears, and shame...beliefs that they are unloveable, and bad. beliefs that they are wrong. likely you have heard how great the fear abandonment can be with someone for BPD, so the perception that your love for your husband is a threat to your love for her may be very strong. it may also be irrational or untrue, but people with BPD traits dont have the skills to manage and work through those cognitive distortions.

this is where validation can really help, and invalidation can make things worse. validation is not about agreeing with your daughters fears or beliefs. its about understanding them, listening to them, and empathizing with them. it can be very challenging to do so. but with practice, it can become very natural.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation
https://bpdfamily.com/content/listen-with-empathy

beyond that, there may be a bigger picture going on that happens in all families called a Relationship Triangle. your daughter may be competing with your husband for your love and affection. your husband may be resentful. and you may be caught in the middle. long term, you want to learn to move to the center of the triangle, and let the tension die or be redirected.

these can help you get a sense of the bigger picture, and of how to shift to the Winner's Triangle:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle
https://thebowencenter.org/theory/eight-concepts/

bottom line though, you will need your husbands help in this. the two of you will need to be on the same page. the two of you will need to support each other, and you will need support of your own. something like couples counseling wouldnt necessarily need to be about fixing a bad relationship, but about working together as a team and from the same page, how you can best support each other, and how you can best support your daughter.

what do you think?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Tazzer4000]

I had not considered that she felt like she was competing for my love with my husband  but you could be right. I agree we need to be on the same page. I will talk with him about couples counseling after has been in counseling on his own for a bit. Give him a chance to work out some of his own pain. Thanks for the advice!

[SkellyII]

Thanks to all of you. I just needed to know this is a normal response that can be worked through. It's scary to hear your spouse talk that way about one of your kids.

If you've spent much time on this site reading the posts, that kind of response is pretty common. I've sure that I've probably said that myself a least a couple of times. And then when I come to my senses, I realize that I'm all she has, her mother is also BPD and a (sometimes) recovering alcoholic.

BPD kid/adults can be very difficult to deal with, especially for those close to them, and when you're the parent that's constantly the target, that can be overwhelming.

He is starting therapy on Monday. I'm not sure we need couples counseling.  For the most part our relationship is good. It's this one issue that could pose a problem when she finally comes home. I think I'll take a wait and see approach since he's starting therapy.  Maybe it will help him be able to cope better and he won't feel this way and shut down.

Pardon me for interjecting here, but YOU NEED COUPLES COUNSELING!

Couples counseling isn't just about your relationship. You and your husband have different parenting styles, which can be a problem with typical kids, but it can be a BIG problem with dealing with BPD kids. The two of you need to figure out a way to present a more consistent parenting style  so that one parent isn't always getting the brunt of her anger. I read your previous posts, and your husband seems to be really catching hell.

Maybe he's not the one with the problem?

My daughter once told her grandmother how frustrating it was when my ex and I were both on the same page. I guess she couldn't figure out who to target, eh?

[StressedOutDaily]

Hope you don't mind if I add my own 2 cents...

Do you have a DBT therapy practice near you?  My husband and I have been meeting with a DBT therapist for "skills" counseling.  It is helping a lot.  We are (mostly) on the same page,  learning how to deal with her behaviors and how to respond rather than react. 

Our situation isn't quite the same...Im the one who gets the brunt of our D (16yo) anger, but my husband is getting close to just throwing up his hands at the whole situation.  The counseling is helping both of us.

SOD

[Tazzer4000]

Thanks everyone.  We have been working with a therapist to get our parenting on the same page. And while she is more physical with him I'm the one she attacks the most verbally. However, that angers my husband as well and frustrated him greatly. We had been on the same page for at least the last 6 months and very consistent. She just continued to escalate in response to a United front. Normal I know, but she got herself put in juvenile due to her out of control behavior. We'll see if she learns anything. 

[FaithHopeLove]

Yes, we will see. Please keep us posted.