Part 2: My experience here and the broadening picture of my RS.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Part 1 of this thread is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=335971.0

formflier and babyducks,

Thank you both.

There must be a strategy to my peace and soothing, I have read up on distress tolerance, thank you.

I’m clearly unbalanced with the idea that I can do something to change the circumstances of our connection.

My incorrect thinking...if you don’t touch base, I’m gone from her heart and mind.

I know I need to just let things happen, I am the “running man” in terms of reaching out and staying relevant.

Healthy detachment comes in waves, in between, I am running to fix, change and make things right somehow.

[Sandb2015]

Part 1 of this thread is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=335971.0

formflier and babyducks,

Thank you both.

There must be a strategy to my peace and soothing, I have read up on distress tolerance, thank you.

I’m clearly unbalanced with the idea that I can do something to change the circumstances of our connection.

My incorrect thinking...if you don’t touch base, I’m gone from her heart and mind.

I know I need to just let things happen, I am the “running man” in terms of reaching out and staying relevant.

Healthy detachment comes in waves, in between, I am running to fix, change and make things right somehow.

[babyducks]

I’m clearly unbalanced with the idea that I can do something to change the circumstances of our connection.

most us of here are ~fixers~, care takers.    people who tend to over function in a care giving role.

when paired with some one who has significant and hard to meet needs things become unbalanced.

we tend to keep returning to our ~baseline~.   Fix.   Care take.   Repair.    but doing that feeds the dynamic.    and makes things worse in the long run.

these are challenging relationships.     they tug at our core values.   they poke at our own core wounds.

what can you do to support yourself?    what does self care look like for you?

[Sandb2015]

babyducks,

Emotionally I trick myself into thinking that supporting myself and self care is doing what I can to keep this rs going.

I know I’m wrong.

Logically, I need to step back and maybe lose this. I know also that stepping back into calmer waters doesn’t mean I’m losing her either... I just can’t bridge that emotional and logical gap.

[babyducks]

Sandb2015,

Wanna try and break this down into smaller pieces?

Are you eating?    Real food?    not potato chips?    something nutritionally dense?

Are you drinking?   Water?    Sleeping?    I wouldn't think that futon's are very comfortable.   

How about some fresh air and exercise?

Stepping back into calmer waters doesn't mean forever this, always that, never again or permanently something.    That's our own form of black and white thinking and not helpful.

Stepping back into calmer waters means for the next 12 hours,... just the next 12 hours, accepting there are things to be worked through.   Working through these things will be a process.    the process will take time.    right now being gentle with the process and allowing it to unfold naturally is okay.

[Sandb2015]

babyducks,

Just finished being distracted by going to mall to have my computer updated. It was nice. Just people watching and some simple social interaction. Those things I took for granted before and now the “break” from my mind was a treat.

I’m eating, going back to my normal weight, lost 30 lbs. I am sleeping decently on a futon. Only once or twice a week do I have these thoughts of her words and actions that get in the way of sleeping. I do look for healthy things to eat, sometimes just forcing myself.

I do feel like I have nothing right now and try to break it down and getting a better job will make a major change, being at work (off today)and my rs issues is a double whammy. Being at work is depressing and I am slowly going down with the ship there. I will have lunch with her Martial arts master tomorrow and that always helps for a day.

I constantly try to separate them as to not have such doom and gloom, my connection with her and work.

I need to stop reaching out and deal with the feelings that texting without any reply brings. What do you think?

I have used black and white thinking my whole life as a survival method. It’s a hard nut to crack and I struggle with it and did during our better times...required work on myself I know.

Between remembering “specific words” she used ( which I don’t need to)and my own, if I do this, she’ll do or think this.

Stepping into calmer waters means a lot of just letting crap go, ideas of control, blame like juggling a perpetually hot potato.

I need a mental and emotional break, my heart hurts and my mind is like a tv without a remote.

One one hand I’ve been relying on advice here of stepping back and she might step up, I have to let that idea go also.

Of course I’m looking for some predictor which doesn’t exist.

Wanting to know is mixed with all the other stuff.

I need to stop the questions asked by the unwelcomed committee in my head. They have been comfortable for 51 years. I never dwelled on anything for even 20% of this.

Stopping the reaching out is a painful and necessary start. I’m not helping, I’m torturing myself and I’m probably stressing her out.

Your comment on the futon hits hard, made me sob. I need to stop the pity thing and that gave me some perspectives I’m hiding from.

Her indifference is almost impossible for me to digest.

Thank you from my heart babyducks.

[formflier]

Her (apparent) indifference is almost impossible for me to digest.

 

   

Whatever you can do to bring wisemind into your "analysis".  You suspect she is indifferent, yet there is no way to really know how she views things.

Newsflash...it's likely she doesn't either. 

All of this points back to you working on you..

FF

[babyducks]

I need a mental and emotional break, my heart hurts and my mind is like a tv without a remote.

What you are describing is ruminations.   It's being mentally fused with a train of thought.   I'm not making light of it.   I know it's emotionally painful.

Everyone here has spent time stuck in ruminating.   All of us.

You've identified that it's not helping.     You've identified that taking a break from being fused into this thinking was "nice".     

Go with the nice.    Take breaks.   Distract yourself.     Binge watch mindless TV.    Play with the dog.      Borrow a dog to play with.     

That doesn't mean you are giving up or making a decision.    what it means is you are giving yourself space for other thoughts, feelings, ideas and emotions to surface.

[formflier]

Especially if you can be deliberate about distracting yourself and deliberate about getting a bunch of really good sleep, good exercise and good healthy food...then make a decision about your next step from a place of strength, vice a place of distress.

FF

[Sandb2015]

babyducks and formflier,

Thank you.

Ruminations are slowing down but still there sometimes.

I feel like I know her mind which is ridiculous and I play ad lib/fill in the blanks depending on my mood, projection both awesome and terrible.  I sway between she loves me and never will, constant movement of the goalposts.

I want her to love me, think about me, want me back, to miss me.  When I think those things won't happen, I want to run to her physically and emotionally, text, connect.

Right now, I am trying to want what I want or control her acting in a way to produce the perfect result for both of us (doesn't make sense when I write it), that's something to tackle.

I don't shake when I text her anticipating the response, seems any response would be good including no response.  Texting, not texting, I give it too much thought as though either way makes a difference.  It makes me feel good to do it and it's simple stuff.  I need to stop overthinking.

There is an end somewhere to at least my unhealthy thinking, my pain, my situation.

I miss her, I long for her and this s*cks right now, better times are ahead.  With her would be better.

I find myself devaluing her, blaming her, putting every bad feeling I have on her and all of that is on me in order to hide and protect myself, my ego, lacking wholeheartedness, my feeling of superiority in the face of weakness, my own.  I don't have the feeling that I'm not enough or inadequate anymore, I did.  Other clarity is coming and it's just the fear of loss that I deal with as well as severe self esteem issue regarding work and feeling self worth...

I send out resumes with the same positive thinking I send her a simple text...

I will try less details and wisemind.

I can't stop missing her or loving her even during this time.

Life is short and long, I have a philosophic taste of both.  Short, take a chance it's worth it/don't take a chance, best to move on to a seemingly better chance.  The long...what chances should we have taken that we didn't?

[Sandb2015]

Last night no sleep...when it starts before bed, it's the most difficult.  i must have said stop ten times to myself.

I'm ok, ate, getting my head right, drove the commute in for 1.5 hours with the radio off.

Thinking too much and the quiet commute is soothing, getting to work is not.  I take walks when I can and smoke a whole lot more than I should.

I think about what I do know and try to concentrate on what I don't and how I am manufacturing a picture of her thoughts...I keep needing to bring myself back to me.

My false visions of her smiling, enjoying her day, possible with someone, ruminating about the physical intimacy between her and the guy she meet right after me (true).

I know she's not smiling, or enjoying, she's a mess.  It feels a little better to know that truth than the stuff I make up.

I found a real peaceful place to sit after church last Sunday, I wrote and read (Brene Brown).  I felt strong about my thoughts, what I was writing, looked at it today and had trouble feeling the same.

I guess the key is to make the best of a peaceful situation, seems clarity is easier and when I'm not tired and stressed.

Having lunch with her MA mentor has been postponed until Thursday, I was so looking forward to it, he makes me feel stronger about myself, doesn't pull punches and doesn't take side, he makes me see me and what's happening with tough questions.

bpdfamily and Master B,  Thank you.

[Harri]

I find myself devaluing her, blaming her, putting every bad feeling I have on her and all of that is on me in order to hide and protect myself, my ego, lacking wholeheartedness, my feeling of superiority in the face of weakness, my own.  I don't have the feeling that I'm not enough or inadequate anymore, I did.  Other clarity is coming and it's just the fear of loss that I deal with as well as severe self esteem issue regarding work and feeling self worth...

I think this is something we can struggle with when the pain is so hard.  It is great that the ruminations are lessening and even better that you can see how you are running from yourself when you project you bad feelings on her.  This is a tough realization but one that is going to serve you well.  It is also a process so keep at it.

I can't stop missing her or loving her even during this time.

Of course you can't just stop loving her and of course you miss her.  She was a big part of your life for a long time Sandb.  It is going to hurt before it gets better (how's that for a cliche?)

Keep doing what you are doing.  Don't run from the pain as much as it may hurt.

[Sandb2015]

Harri,

Thank you.

I need to examine my motivation to blame and as much as I thought many things were my fault which worked perfectly for her as she said it was all me, I know I still have heart and breaking through some of the bs helps me know that I'm not innocent, but true to myself.

As other people have dealt with or dealing with guilt, I have none for our rs.  Fear, I was ruled by it and the threat of being thrown out on a moments notice no matter what my actions or response usually ended up as that, clothes thrown around and stuffed in my car.  The care taking dynamic wasn't as clear with me and I didn't instigate much.  There weren't any signs of her being fearful of me leaving outright. The little lies I'm remembering and our last discussion on 4/15 which was her yelling while letting little truths out help me see her in a different light.  I was always accused of lying, everything and anything was discredited...I did lie about some small stuff because anything I did say was used against me later in a horrible way, I apologized for any lies and made them known, all up for discussion and I was sorry.  Her lies had a little more deceit attached and on Monday, she let some out, she never said sorry for anything, ever, even when I brought up a lie in a loving way with preacceptance.  I remember insinuating or just stating fact about some "mistruth" and she looked at me with dead eyes and emotionless face, no words, no denial or admittance...scary now to think about it.

I don't know what will happen next, I am hoping to stop the cycle if we do connect/reconnect as I won't live that life again with anyone under any circumstances.

To confront within myself what has happened and what I let happen is tough.

To still love her and want a life with her and stepping back is tougher.

I believe she has some serious signs of other cluster b traits, I have seen things other than just BPD.  



I'm trying to exclude the emotional and little by little the cringe worthy task of looking at what has happened without blame, just logic.  I went along with so much abuse and I can't believe I did (not beating myself up about it), just processing the reality I didn't/couldn't then.  

I believe not returning any texts for a week is a form of abuse which I am perpetrating because for 8 days, I've been sending them knowing I won't get anything back...

[Harri]

To confront within myself what has happened and what I let happen is tough.

Yes.  For me, I know I made choices and I gave up little pieces of me to make things work and to ry to settle things and make my ex happy.  It was very hard to work through that and to be honest I still am working on it but more with my family.

I don't know what will happen next, I am hoping to stop the cycle if we do connect/reconnect as I won't live that life again with anyone under any circumstances.

I think if that is your goal, the best way to make sure you don't repeat the cycle is to keep becoming more healthy and aware of your own tendencies.  Like how you respond and react in a relationship, how everyone projects, even us, etc.   

I believe not returning any texts for a week is a form of abuse which I am perpetrating because for 8 days, I've been sending them knowing I won't get anything back...

It could be a way to hurt you or it could be something else.

Why do you keep trying to contact her?  What are you hoping for?

[Sandb2015]

Harri,

Thank you.

I am try to illicit a response. Either indifference, causing me deliberate pain or she is shut down emotionally, I don't know and for now, I need to stop picking one of those and juggling them depending on my mood. I forget that it may be like poking a sleeping and hungry bear.

I want some attention from her.Sad but true and s*cks to say.

I have to admit my unfairness in the past with women to varying degrees.  Not ruthless like my current, but unfair and hurtful nevertheless.  I have been thoughtless, careless and self absorbed.

I'm not supposed to project an outcome here, but I do think I should be prepared for some good or some bad.

I feel like if I stop texting...really small stuff...I will fade into history.  If I can just let that nonsense go, my locomotive will start chugging with some consistency.


If, we can connect/reconnect, my boundaries will be made known.  As I reflect, I see them clear as day.

[formflier]

  causing me deliberate pain 

What do you mean by "deliberate pain"?

FF

[Sandb2015]

formflier,

One of a few projections, intentional discomfort knowing I would like some response and not give it.  None of which matter really.

Obvious projections, all the thoughts of thinking I know anything about the what and why.

[Harri]

I want some attention from her.Sad but true and s*cks to say.

I don't think it is sad to want some attention.  I don't think what you are doing is a good or healthy choice though.

I was reading a thread from way back when and someone said that it is okay to embrace (as in feel and process) the pain but to not embrace suffering.  That idea has been rattling around in my head for a few days now and I think it applies here.

Can you see how reaching out to her in an attempt to get attention from her is a form of suffering you are putting on yourself here?

Now for a hard truth.  You are looking for a response, thinking you are not getting one.  Her silence is her response Sandb.   It is just different from what you are hoping for.

Let that sink in for a bit.  

We've go you.  

[formflier]

formflier,

One of a few projections, intentional discomfort knowing I would like some response and not give it.  None of which matter really.

Obvious projections, all the thoughts of thinking I know anything about the what and why.

Whatever you can do to give the most parsimonious explanation to her reluctance to contact you...the better.

Remember...when someone realizes they shouldn't be communicating...believe them!

Would you rather have silence...or some "bad communication"?


FF

[Sandb2015]

Harri,

Of course I know her silence could be her response...that's part of the pain, the potential truth to that.  I know her method, block and block...this could be different.  In the past, I've popped up at her job after her not responding, I fought the urge to go, it would just make this push/pull, cut me off and I run back with every cell situation continue.  She may not want me after I've shown this resistance, I don't know.

I don't know what will happen and when my wants and fears start up, I project the best and worst and everything in between.

[Sandb2015]

formflier,

I will keep playing down the reasons she isn't while not getting stuck on any.


"Remember...when someone realizes they shouldn't be communicating...believe them!"  Are you referring to me or her?  Is there any thing I theoretically shouldn't be doing?  

She has not lashed out which I was originally expecting and it's disconcerting it's been 8 days with nothing at all.

About a year ago during one of her "episodes", she said that I'm codependent.  I said that we are both unbalanced, she said she's perfect.  

As silly as it sounds, I admit maybe I'd rather some bad words, silly blame, it would give me the impression she is as least thinking...now, I just don't know.

I have been sending texts such as "good morning", "good night, sleep well", "have a great day", some quotes, some TED TALK stuff.  No questions...I may get some response if I ask a question, than I'd really be looking for a response or devastated by the silence...I am treading lightly, she'll come around or she won't.

[babyducks]

Sandb,

Hang in there.    This is difficult.   When I went through a batch patch with my EX several years ago, I lost 15 pounds and had all sorts of problems sleeping.   

After careful consideration, I made a personal rule that after 3 nights of no sleep I would take one pill to help put me out for a decent night sleep.    Think about what your options are, what would work best for you.


Do you think we can take another look at what Harri said here:

Now for a hard truth.  You are looking for a response, thinking you are not getting one.  Her silence is her response Sandb.   It is just different from what you are hoping for.

Many of us, most of us, show up here in considerable emotional pain.   And want that pain to go away.    quickly.   pretty understandable.    Hard truth? there is no quick fix.

Right now she is being silent.    That's all you know for sure.    Trying to force something is probably not a good approach.     This is a time for you to rebuild your own strength.    Put your own house in order.    Become emotionally more resilient.

'ducks

[formflier]

"Remember...when someone realizes they shouldn't be communicating...believe them!"  Are you referring to me or her? 

Her...

For whatever reason she is choosing not to communicate.  Please believe her that she is making the best choice..for now.

Perhaps she realizes she would lash out...perhaps she realizes she would (xyz)...

Do you get the thought. 

Instead of thinking that someone is perfectly capable of communicating and are NOT just to tick you off...flip it.

They've realized now isn't a good time for THEM.  BELIEVE THEM!

FF

[Sandb2015]

formflier and babyducks,

I am so tired and it feels good actually.  My mind won't be on high alert tonight, I know.

So much compassion, thank you.

To guess why or what with specifics is really just a way to keep myself spinning aimlessly.

Yes, for whatever reason she is not reaching out, it's a choice she is making for her, respected.

I guess what I've learned in this short time that my pull can be stress inducing for her also and the reaction I receive can cause myself anxiety.  That's why I've been so simple with the content of the text, like a one way thing.  I know she is mixed up in many ways, I just wanted to reach out for selfish reasons.

I will respect what is actually happening.

[formflier]

So..if you need to guess...pick something simple then stick with it.

She's busy...(something simple and neutral)

FF

[Sandb2015]

formflier and babyducks,

I would rather think she is just angry and confused, probably closer to the truth.  I need to stop finding reasons to find fault.  We have been through enough and just accepting and forgiving is my best course of action as that is who I am beneath the pain, confusion, connection and love for her.

She's been wrong, I've been wrong.  She doesn't know how to do this and it's up to me if it can be me...Today, just today, I'll let things be.  I am obsessing over my own smoke and mirrors.

It's a roller coaster and I need to stop getting on it alone, we aren't on it together, it's just for the nons.  We create it, get on, we get off, on, off until we find the way.

I've said something a while ago I remembered on the ride home, something from a post a while ago, "this time something is different" (as in worse) regarding perceiving her behavior or the negativity I attached to this situation.  That hit me. Every time I sunk into my own negative thinking, I started my own projection of how much she is causing something more painful, more confusing...that's me, not her.  I said the same thing today without remembering I had the same fear before about the same misperception.

Different behavior? Something inconsistent? Expecting consistency?

There is no road map here and as less experienced nons, we are searching for some of our own logic and it just brings confusion. 

I'm tired and I don't need one, but I'm having a beer to her.

I look back and I promised myself I would leave many times, I wrote notes to remember how bad it got and I stayed, never hinted I would leave.  What came over me was forgiveness and acceptance without any boundaries ...who was in control then?  I was.  I'm making the same choice now.  I'm learning the origins of boundaries if I get to utilize them with her.

[Harri]

This thread reached the post limit and has been split and locked.  Part 3 is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=336112.0