My last memory of her is her singing and smiling along to a song on the radio

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Morning. Thank you for allowing me to join the group.

I wonder if I might ask for some guidance regarding my situation. Fairly sure I've come out of a relationship with someone who has BPD. I read the article on here about surviving a break up with someone who has BPD and it is like looking at a mirror.

Here is my story anyway. And I apologise for the length. Thank you for listening.


Started dating this woman in January last year. She's 32, I'm 38. Things were initially great. We liked the same things, she is pretty, funny, intelligent. Has two kids by previous marriage, I have one. We fell in love anyway, and it was great, as I say.

Anyway, around May, things started to go a bit wrong. We were in bed together and she told me that she 'can't do this anymore' and so naturally I got a bit upset, but after talking I went home, we texted some more where she said the spark had gone, and she didn't feel as strongly as me. At this point I thanked her for her honesty and said I'd respect what she wanted and we'd go her separate ways. She then proceeded to tell me she didn't want to split up, she wanted to work on it. I agreed, but this was where the problems started.

I started to progressively feel more and more insecure. Thinking it was going to happen again. It was around this point I started to notice things about her personality. She never, ever took responsibility for anything. The previous relationships ending, bit was all their fault. Which I thought was strange. Shes very impulsive and would very often make snap decisions, about quite important things (she changed jobs frequently, was never happy, she'd also have this habit of booking a holiday away with me and then changing her mind and cancelling it. She did this on about 3 occasions). I also noticed that she would criticise my insecurity (which she caused) frequently. She would also make grand plans about the future (she would say we'd all move somewhere, she wanted to marry me, etc) but with no basis for these sweeping statements.

We get to July anyway. We decided I'd have a vasectomy (I didn't want anymore kids, neither did she) and so I had the operation. It took me a long time to get over the trauma of it, and it really dented my confidence. She wasn't particularly supportive, being very wrapped up in her own work and money issues. Which I was trying to help her with at the time. Anyway, we get to August. I'd started to recover my confidence and recover physically, when she decides to break up with me. Citing that it isn't going to work, she doesn't love me, etc. I pleaded of course, being short of confidence and self esteem, but it didn't work. I went away for three weeks and started to feel better. But what did I do? I crawled back to her. We got back together. She said my confidence was the only thing that was wrong.

Things were good for a while. My confidence started to return. We went away on a short break to Prague. It was fantastic, she told me how she loved me so much and she wanted to marry me.

We get to November. And she starts getting strange. Focusing solely on herself again (still having money and job issues) but finding time to berate my parenting skills, and criticising me for not being able to drive yet (I had been learning). I remember snapping one day because she'd got in a mood with me about not realising she wanted me to buy a particular Christmas decoration (I genuinely forgot- there was nothing malicious about it). I left her house and said it was over, I'd had enough. But, I went crawling back after a week. There would be two or three instances as well where she'd tell me she wanted to split up, then change her mind. These would dent my confidence even further and in hindsight, this made me act needy as I thought at the time I didn't want to lose her.

Christmas was good, and we get to January. She was having to move back into her parents house at this point due to money issues. I raised the concern with her that I hoped her moving to her parents wouldn't affect our relationship too much. She assured me she was 100% committed to sorting her life and career out so we could be together, and that she loved me and didn't want to lose me, and how important I was to her children. That same day I'd arranged to go overnight to a hotel for us. We came home the next day, and within 30 minutes of getting home, she broke up with me. Saying it wasn't going to work. She wanted to focus on her work and that didn't leave any room for me. That she didn't love me any more. My last memory of her is her singing and smiling along to a song on the radio, 10 minutes after she told me this.

I felt like I'd been used, and then discarded when I'd outlived my usefulness. I recognise that being needy and lacking confidence are not attractive traits but she caused that, with her behaviour.

Any feedback is appreciated. And I'll happily elaborate on anything further. Sorry for the long post, and thanks for reading.

[Plucky1980]

Morning. Thank you for allowing me to join the group.

I wonder if I might ask for some guidance regarding my situation. Fairly sure I've come out of a relationship with someone who has BPD. I read the article on here about surviving a break up with someone who has BPD and it is like looking at a mirror.

Here is my story anyway. And I apologise for the length. Thank you for listening.


Started dating this woman in January last year. She's 32, I'm 38. Things were initially great. We liked the same things, she is pretty, funny, intelligent. Has two kids by previous marriage, I have one. We fell in love anyway, and it was great, as I say.

Anyway, around May, things started to go a bit wrong. We were in bed together and she told me that she 'can't do this anymore' and so naturally I got a bit upset, but after talking I went home, we texted some more where she said the spark had gone, and she didn't feel as strongly as me. At this point I thanked her for her honesty and said I'd respect what she wanted and we'd go her separate ways. She then proceeded to tell me she didn't want to split up, she wanted to work on it. I agreed, but this was where the problems started.

I started to progressively feel more and more insecure. Thinking it was going to happen again. It was around this point I started to notice things about her personality. She never, ever took responsibility for anything. The previous relationships ending, bit was all their fault. Which I thought was strange. Shes very impulsive and would very often make snap decisions, about quite important things (she changed jobs frequently, was never happy, she'd also have this habit of booking a holiday away with me and then changing her mind and cancelling it. She did this on about 3 occasions). I also noticed that she would criticise my insecurity (which she caused) frequently. She would also make grand plans about the future (she would say we'd all move somewhere, she wanted to marry me, etc) but with no basis for these sweeping statements.

We get to July anyway. We decided I'd have a vasectomy (I didn't want anymore kids, neither did she) and so I had the operation. It took me a long time to get over the trauma of it, and it really dented my confidence. She wasn't particularly supportive, being very wrapped up in her own work and money issues. Which I was trying to help her with at the time. Anyway, we get to August. I'd started to recover my confidence and recover physically, when she decides to break up with me. Citing that it isn't going to work, she doesn't love me, etc. I pleaded of course, being short of confidence and self esteem, but it didn't work. I went away for three weeks and started to feel better. But what did I do? I crawled back to her. We got back together. She said my confidence was the only thing that was wrong.

Things were good for a while. My confidence started to return. We went away on a short break to Prague. It was fantastic, she told me how she loved me so much and she wanted to marry me.

We get to November. And she starts getting strange. Focusing solely on herself again (still having money and job issues) but finding time to berate my parenting skills, and criticising me for not being able to drive yet (I had been learning). I remember snapping one day because she'd got in a mood with me about not realising she wanted me to buy a particular Christmas decoration (I genuinely forgot- there was nothing malicious about it). I left her house and said it was over, I'd had enough. But, I went crawling back after a week. There would be two or three instances as well where she'd tell me she wanted to split up, then change her mind. These would dent my confidence even further and in hindsight, this made me act needy as I thought at the time I didn't want to lose her.

Christmas was good, and we get to January. She was having to move back into her parents house at this point due to money issues. I raised the concern with her that I hoped her moving to her parents wouldn't affect our relationship too much. She assured me she was 100% committed to sorting her life and career out so we could be together, and that she loved me and didn't want to lose me, and how important I was to her children. That same day I'd arranged to go overnight to a hotel for us. We came home the next day, and within 30 minutes of getting home, she broke up with me. Saying it wasn't going to work. She wanted to focus on her work and that didn't leave any room for me. That she didn't love me any more. My last memory of her is her singing and smiling along to a song on the radio, 10 minutes after she told me this.

I felt like I'd been used, and then discarded when I'd outlived my usefulness. I recognise that being needy and lacking confidence are not attractive traits but she caused that, with her behaviour.

Any feedback is appreciated. And I'll happily elaborate on anything further. Sorry for the long post, and thanks for reading.

[once removed]

wow.

ya know, i had a relationship once; not the one that brought me here, but with a gal with some BPD traits, and it seemed like we fought a lot about my confidence too. it was always in tatters, and i remember thinking things would be better if shed just be more consistent!

and following a vasectomy too, yikes. thats rough.

it sounds like the two of you went through a lot of make ups and breakups. how long has it been since the last breakup? are you done with the relationship?

[Plucky1980]

4 months.

I can't really work out if she's BPD, Narcissistic, or a bit of both.

Relationship is definitely over. The stress of waiting for the next time she decided she wanted to split up was unbearable. Even though she dumped me, I recognise that the relationship was toxic.

It still doesn't stop me feeling upset, confused, betrayed, guilty and ashamed though.

[once removed]

It still doesn't stop me feeling upset, confused, betrayed, guilty and ashamed though.

no, it doesnt. theres a saying that "its okay not to be okay". one of the most helpful things in my own recovery was to learn to grieve and mourn with all of the complicated feelings that entails, and without judgment...whether that meant missing my ex, hating her, or both at the same time.

what led you to suspecting a PD and connecting the dots?

[Plucky1980]

Just desperately looking for answers to her behaviour, to be honest. Looking for something that might explain why she treated me the way she did. I found things to do with sociopathic traits. That led me to narcisissm, and then someone suggested BPD. I've read a fair bit about it, spoken to a psychotherapist, and (I'm no expert obviously, and I could be wrong) it all fits, to me. My feelings and emotions, her patterns of behaviour.

Knowing this hasn't made it any easier, certainly.

[Upandown]

"That she didn't love me any more. My last memory of her is her singing and smiling along to a song on the radio, 10 minutes after she told me this."

They don't have well functioning emotional memory.  Emotional memory is what gives both people in a relationship a sense of shared experience and significance.  What you thought was deep and meaningful to her really wasn't, at least not for very long.  Easy to sing and smile 10 minutes later.

If you are interested in this aspect, Google Thomas Fuchs and Borderline.  It's a recent German paper that had eye opening concepts for me.

[Plucky1980]

Thank you, I will. The more knowledge I have on the subject, the better I think.

[Plucky1980]

"That she didn't love me any more. My last memory of her is her singing and smiling along to a song on the radio, 10 minutes after she told me this."

They don't have well functioning emotional memory.  Emotional memory is what gives both people in a relationship a sense of shared experience and significance.  What you thought was deep and meaningful to her really wasn't, at least not for very long.  Easy to sing and smile 10 minutes later.

If you are interested in this aspect, Google Thomas Fuchs and Borderline.  It's a recent German paper that had eye opening concepts for me.

There's elements of narcisissm here, isn't there? I'm convinced there is in my ex. I read somewhere that the two disorders are linked.

[Wicker Man]

Thomas Fuchs and Borderline.  It's a recent German paper that had eye opening concepts for me.

Yes -Fragmented Selves: Temporality and Identity in Borderline Personality Disorder in an amazing article. 

I like this one as well:
www.nicolamethodforhighconflict.com/breakups-with-women-with-traits-of-BPD/

It took me a protracted deep dive into the concept of BPD to relieve the conganitve dissonance the fallout of such a bizarre relationship caused. 

Things really will get better for you.  Journalling, therapy and self care (exercise and nutrition) were important to my returning to baseline.

Wicker Man

[once removed]

There's elements of narcisissm here, isn't there? I'm convinced there is in my ex.

which parts? what about your ex did you find narcissistic/struggle with?

I read somewhere that the two disorders are linked.

while the two disorders are both categorized as "cluster b" (by and large impulse disorders) and comorbidities can exist, they are very different disorders, with different driving motivators, core fears, belief systems, coping mechanisms, and origins.

[Plucky1980]

which parts? what about your ex did you find narcissistic/struggle with?

while the two disorders are both categorized as "cluster b" (by and large impulse disorders) and comorbidities can exist, they are very different disorders, with different driving motivators, core fears, belief systems, coping mechanisms, and origins.

She used to take pleasure in my pain. Whenever she was breaking up with me obviously I'd become upset in front of her and she'd laugh and chuckle at me crying.

Also I thought the singing along to a song on the radio more or less straight after breaking up with me is a sign of that. Of course you may think differently, I have no idea and am no expert. I've done some research but that's it.

[I Am Redeemed]

It sounds like she certainly didn't show any empathy for you. That's a trait of a number of different things, but at any rate it's very hurtful.

You have realized the relationship was toxic and decided to not allow the dysfunctional dance to continue, and that's a really big step. Lots of people keep hanging in there and go around and around way past the point of realizing that it is damaging.

You said you have spoken to a psychotherapist. Do you have a counselor for yourself at all? Ending a relationship, even when it is a toxic one, is still a tough thing to go through.

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

[Plucky1980]

So an update. Still not really fully back to normal and it's been about 7 months. I have to remind myself that it takes as long as it takes, and I shouldn't beat myself up because I still have periods of sadness, and even still occasional feelings of confusion. I've had a few people I trust tell me that I'm doing pretty well, considering.

Still have to pinch myself sometimes. Doesn't seem real.

[once removed]

I have to remind myself that it takes as long as it takes

it does. it took me a good year to really get there.

having said that, detachment and recovery from the wounds takes some work. time will dull the pain, but it wont do the healing.

tell us more about whats going on in your process. what stage of detachment does it feel like youre in?

[gizmo7247]

Hi Plucky,

I'm on a similar timeline as you - about 7 months (out of a 4.5 year relationship). There's still good and bad days, don't beat yourself up. My T tells me it's going to take a lot of time to fully heal.

Something that really helps me is to focus on consistency, not an end goal (being fully healed.) I have daily routine of journaling, meditating and exercising. I focus on that routine, and doing it every day. Some days I miss (because life gets crazy), but that's okay, I just get back on the routine. Consistency.

It has helped tremendously. It's like taking baby steps that build upon one another. A side effect, which I didn't initially recognize, is that by focusing on the day to day consistency - it's literally forcing my mind to focus more on today - and less on yesterday (rumination) or tomorrow (anxiety/worry). My T is employing a lot of MCBT in her work with me - so it falls in line with being mindful of the present, and beginning to separate myself from my thoughts/feelings - being able to objectively look at them, with space, and not allow them to drive me - per se.

Keep your head up. We've been through a lot.

[Plucky1980]

it does. it took me a good year to really get there.

having said that, detachment and recovery from the wounds takes some work. time will dull the pain, but it wont do the healing.

tell us more about whats going on in your process. what stage of detachment does it feel like youre in?

Well... I feel better than I did a few months ago. I had therapy with a psychotherapist who had extensive experience in both treating borderlines and victims (I loathe to use that word) of them.

She told me that my ex was right up towards the top end of the spectrum, and although she said she wouldn't probably qualify for the diagnosis, the behaviours she exhibited in the relationship were typical borderline.

And God knows, I tried to shoulder some of the blame. But she told me off for doing that, she said it really wasn't my doing, and the only criticism she could level at me was that I should've gotten out sooner.

My mental state at present is okay I think. There are still times when I feel down, and yes I think about her and sometimes miss her. I really don't want to though. She doesn't deserve my attention.

I find it hard to explain my overall state of mind. I am confused as to why I still think about her, I mean virtually everything about her was dysfunctional. Completely unsuitable for a healthy loving relationship. And yet, I occasionally miss her.

Hope these ramblings make sense!

[Plucky1980]

Hi Plucky,

I'm on a similar timeline as you - about 7 months (out of a 4.5 year relationship). There's still good and bad days, don't beat yourself up. My T tells me it's going to take a lot of time to fully heal.

Something that really helps me is to focus on consistency, not an end goal (being fully healed.) I have daily routine of journaling, meditating and exercising. I focus on that routine, and doing it every day. Some days I miss (because life gets crazy), but that's okay, I just get back on the routine. Consistency.

It has helped tremendously. It's like taking baby steps that build upon one another. A side effect, which I didn't initially recognize, is that by focusing on the day to day consistency - it's literally forcing my mind to focus more on today - and less on yesterday (rumination) or tomorrow (anxiety/worry). My T is employing a lot of MCBT in her work with me - so it falls in line with being mindful of the present, and beginning to separate myself from my thoughts/feelings - being able to objectively look at them, with space, and not allow them to drive me - per se.

Keep your head up. We've been through a lot.

Appreciate the kind words and support, mate. It's a long road. I have a fantastic friend who's been in a very similar situation and she's told me that I'm doing well where I am, and it'll take however long it takes, and I need to keep focused on that.

It's a struggle to focus on the here and now for me sometimes.

[Longterm]

Hi Plucky1980

I find it hard to explain my overall state of mind. I am confused as to why I still think about her, I mean virtually everything about her was dysfunctional. Completely unsuitable for a healthy loving relationship. And yet, I occasionally miss her.

Hope these ramblings make sense!  

You are not on your own here. I heard it likened to withdrawal from drugs and I tend to agree, it is a very complicated process to detach. On the one hand you are treated well but on the other hand? Not so good. I think the term is intermittent reinforcement. I have recently read about this in a book and it makes perfect sense. Thinking about her is pretty normal given the circumstances. You will have good days and bad days but it's important to remember that this is not a race and self care is important. You will progress more the longer you are apart.

Ramble away, it's good to talk these feelings through.

LT.

[once removed]

I am confused as to why I still think about her, I mean virtually everything about her was dysfunctional. Completely unsuitable for a healthy loving relationship. And yet, I occasionally miss her.

i dont think that grief works in such a way - that we should or shouldnt miss a person we shared a bond with, even if they hurt us. i think that to detach from the wounds and to grieve ultimately requires the vulnerability of acknowledging our wounds, our hurts, in the first place.

you miss her. its a feeling you can examine and work with, but not if you shame yourself for it.

what do you miss?

[Plucky1980]

i dont think that grief works in such a way - that we should or shouldnt miss a person we shared a bond with, even if they hurt us. i think that to detach from the wounds and to grieve ultimately requires the vulnerability of acknowledging our wounds, our hurts, in the first place.

you miss her. its a feeling you can examine and work with, but not if you shame yourself for it.

what do you miss?

It's a cliché I know, but I miss the person I fell in love with. Now, that person doesn't exist, because the real her is the person at the end of the relationship. The person that lacks empathy and warmth, the person that has very little affection, that is selfish and self centered, the person who's words almost never matched their actions.

So in short, there's nothing to miss. And yet I seem to be holding on to the person I met and originally fell in love with. The opposite of all those things.

[Seekinganswers30]

It's a cliché I know, but I miss the person I fell in love with. Now, that person doesn't exist, because the real her is the person at the end of the relationship. The person that lacks empathy and warmth, the person that has very little affection, that is selfish and self centered, the person who's words almost never matched their actions.

So in short, there's nothing to miss. And yet I seem to be holding on to the person I met and originally fell in love with. The opposite of all those things.

I could have written that comment word for word. I feel exactly the same. I miss the first 3 months woman I met everyday and still can't believe the pain and confusion that came after.

[Plucky1980]

I could have written that comment word for word. I feel exactly the same. I miss the first 3 months woman I met everyday and still can't believe the pain and confusion that came after.

It's strange. I write it out, and I read it, and it makes sense. But then again it doesn't. I fully admit I am naive and honestly didn't realise people were capable of behaving in such a manner. Now that it's happened to me I still don't believe it sometimes.

[once removed]

the real her is the person at the end of the relationship

the real her is both. the person you met and fell for (a dream come true), and the person that hurt you (nightmare from hell).

it can take a while to square, but we didnt fall in love with one person who became another person. we fell in love with a complicated and complex person, and we struggled in the process.

if you can square the two, vs longing for one and hating another, detaching will get easier.

[Plucky1980]

the real her is both. the person you met and fell for (a dream come true), and the person that hurt you (nightmare from hell).

it can take a while to square, but we didnt fall in love with one person who became another person. we fell in love with a complicated and complex person, and we struggled in the process.

if you can square the two, vs longing for one and hating another, detaching will get easier.

Is that what is referred to as 'splitting'?

[once removed]

no. splitting is seeing someone as all good or all bad.

seeing her only as she was at the end of the relationship (all bad) would be splitting.

[Plucky1980]

no. splitting is seeing someone as all good or all bad.

seeing her only as she was at the end of the relationship (all bad) would be splitting.

Ah right. But she basically hid her true self from me for months, it only started to show up then. It was too late for me at that point, I was hopelessly in love with her.

I don't truly know how I view her really. I'm coming round to the notion that she couldn't help how she acted. I don't think she's a horrible person. She's just dysfunctional and not suitable relationship material. Not in my eyes, anyway.

My father frequently says to me 'I don't know what she's looking for, but it's unlikely she'll find it'

I tend to agree.

[Plucky1980]

it does. it took me a good year to really get there.

How did you get yourself to that point? If you don't mind me asking.

I've had an indifferent couple of weeks with this. I'd been feeling okay for a couple of months and it's seemed to hit me again, almost like a wave. Now I don't feel as bad which I guess should be looked at as something of a blessing but sometimes I wonder if I'll ever fully get over how I was treated. It's a bit frightening, if I'm honest.

[Harri]

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