I am still pointing the finger to label.

[Sandb2015]

Mod Note:  This thread is a continuation of https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=336112.msg13049691#msg13049691

I'm understanding that NC doesn't help with jealousy.

I've never felt jealousy before, really.

Maybe when I was 12 or 13 and I feel like that now.

Why is everything becoming a delayed afterthought?

I am practicing "pause" and I need so much more.  I need to process what I feel at times of emotional instability.

I am still feeling like my ego, arrogance, blame tools, insecurities are at play here.

I am still pointing the finger to label.  I want to "stay at peace in my place regardless of others and her".

[babyducks]

I am still pointing the finger to label. 

how about taking this out of the realm of the theoretical.    do you think you would feel comfortable providing an example? 

[Sandb2015]

babyducks,

Sounds like a plan.

I keep thinking she is cheating on me and we are officially not a couple.

I think she is intentionally knowing she is hurting me.

I think she is heartless for not trying to connect with me.

The last 2 years of our rs were terrible and I project every mean thing she's said and done as a constant...producing more negative thinking towards her.

I'm trying to devalue her thinking it will bridge the gap between my psyche and reality to detach out of disgust.

[babyducks]

that makes things clearer.   thanks for that.

a couple of more questions.    about you, not her.

what do you think keeps you attached to this relationship?   after two years of a terrible relationship.   and not officially being a couple.     what keeps you hanging on?   dig deep.   

In the link I gave you upstream the workshop talks about the person being 'unaware or insensitive to your wounding'.     Can you see examples of that in your relationship?    real concrete actual events or examples where she was unaware of your feelings?    where she was unconcerned with your wants and needs?   and  is there a pattern in your past where other people acted in the same way?   does that feel familiar to you?

[Sandb2015]

babyducks,

Yes, tough questions.

I have been at work on a no audio computer, I will look tonight.

The last 2 years of 4 is when things started going downhill and the "episodes" went from once a month to twice a month to weekly to every few days.  During the beginning and mostly all the way through, I used logic, apologies and eventually accepting blame for everything with apologies...sounds so standard to BPD.

I was thrown out mid December and we have been ping ponging around for 4 months, push and pull sometimes no communication for about a week at a time and push/pull again.  Until the new guy, and he's been around during her push/pull with me, he probably has been involved with her BPD syptoms...who knows, I don't care, dealing with the jealousy, it's subsiding and plans tomorrow, church and meeting with a very close friend.  Looking forward to that is very helpful.  I am a very social person and I've been anything but in the last few months.

In between the "episodes", we were two people who did express a loving and caring relationship. It all turns to mud in my memory, black and white thinking at my convenience and it's usually black at these times.

I think there will be less stressful times for both of us in life and we may have a chance later.  I think partly because of money stresses (her's and mine), her son's college prep, her parents deciding to relocate here in a year or two, sent her BPD into overdrive, later with less stress, maybe we can have a rs.  Maybe.  I will be stronger and better and have more financial stability than now, I will be different, she may or may not, who knows.

I will take a look at the workshop tonight.  I haven't been exposed to being in a rs where my partner was so clueless about my wants and needs.  Never cruel and usually apologetic when confronted without much argument.  I on the other hand can look back and realize I was unconcerned about MY partners needs without cruelty of course and would apologize or recognize perhaps less than I should have.

I will look up the workshop later and give more detailed responses.

I have unblocked her, I will not be contacting her for a long time.  I feel a sense of relief as I feel I just acted out of emotions and it wasn't sitting right.

Thank you.

[Sandb2015]

I obviously won’t be showing up at the wedding to slow dance, just a truckload of denial.

Yes, pointing the finger in a somewhat loving and compassionate way.

Shari  Schrieber...her website was always missing the point for me and would cringe at times. Not a place for the people that really want to do anything to get back to their partner, but the place to go when you’re on the fence.

I’m not so angry, more like awake to this whole s$it show.

[formflier]

I’m not so angry, more like awake to this whole s$it show.

Is it accurate to say that even though you are awake to this, you are still really focused on the show?

I wonder what you can fill your life with so there is not much room for "the show"?

FF

[Sandb2015]

I feel the waves, a diminished feeling of my attachment, still there, but not as much.

I made excuses for her behavior towards me for so long. I thought it would change, my love for her would make it through the?

I look back not so long ago at a time when wasn’t treated even like a human being let alone the love of her life.. ..

I’m at 75/25 on the hope and love thing.  The absence of communication is healthy and the air is clearing gradually and naturally it seems.

It’s gradually coming to light that this was so damaging and she was so damaging. I feel my own oxygen coming back to my brain, a lot more me than us and her.

I don’t poorly on her, just the idea she’ll always be kinda terrible to anyone and herself.

No more giving, helping, fixing and a keeping love inside for a while.

I broke NC and wasn’t expecting anything from her, I don’t think any communication from her would have an effect on me as I don’t tremble much like before.

I’m sad, not depressed. I’m letting go of the illusion of later and I see her just how she is without my shine of fantasies.

I’m enjoying this natural type of detachment, I have no other way to explain and I think it has a lot to do with exposure to her, seeing or communicating.  The magnet has lost it’s power and I don’t miss her as I did.

[babyducks]

I have unblocked her, I will not be contacting her for a long time. 

I broke NC and wasn’t expecting anything from her,

What are you doing Sandb2015?     

[Sandb2015]

I went NC out of anger.  It felt like punishment and it was bothering me.  After I unblocked her, I felt better. We won’t be contacting each other anyway.

[formflier]

I went NC out of anger.  

How do you feel about this step..now that you have some distance from it?

FF

[Sandb2015]

Better. It was weighing me down I felt.

I had a good time with a childhood friend yesterday.

I miss her, I know the more time that passes the better I’ll get. We haven’t spoken in a while.

I think of what I may do if she reaches out to me. I’m not expecting it.

[Cat Familiar]

If she does reach out to you, what is your plan?

[Sandb2015]

My first one is to torture her mentally (yes, just a fantasy).  I will be a brick wall emotionally if she wants to recycle.  I can talk about anything, I am a million miles away emotionally.  Slowly my love attachment is being replaced with hate.  Two things will happen if she reaches out to me...

1) She will try to cause more pain in her way to release her shame or just as a kick as there is zero remorse and probably zero guilt.

2) She will plead for me back and state all the things I want to hear and don't believe or trust anymore.

I am going over all the projections, the far out projections and I'm now understanding I need to go get tested for STDs.  The last woman I was with prior to her was the mother of my son, almost a year before meeting this one.  I was tested during that time and years before.

I was accused of cheating in such detail...I'm understanding the likelihood that there are many things I'm glimpsing I was so trusting.

Looking back at the details of her projection is really getting under my skin.

[formflier]

So...you need a plan and likely need some canned lines to say.

Is there anything good that can come out of emotional torture?  Seriously...?  Note:  I understand the feeling/desire.

Knowing that such things are floating around in your desires...make a plan for success.

Best,

FF

[Sandb2015]

I have to keep looking ahead without her while trying to get past what really happened.

[formflier]

When I say plan...I mean exactly what you are going to say and that you have practiced it.

Do you really think you will be able to figure that out "in the moment" when she calls?

Best,

FF

[Sandb2015]

When I met her, she played the conservative role, I was the third man she had sex with. She would really solidify that in her severe criticism of me.

She would torment me regarding my past, I wasn’t a player or how she kept projecting.

One night during one of her psychotic beaks, she would keep going on about how I imagine all the vaginas, how I dream of them. During this break, she blurted out how she remembers “all the penises” and went back to her original topic.

I would bring up these things she would blurt out and lovingly question what was said.  Her response always was “I don’t remember” and any attempt to remind her would get a response of, “If I can’t remember, it shouldn’t matter”.

Any attempt to discuss further would bring about an episode, always a lose-lose.

I am devastated by the person I fell in love with that didn’t exist, she went to great lengths to promote an image of someone she wanted to be or have me see.

The image of the woman I loved is slowly and extremely painfully coming to light.

I used to shrug at her projections, now I cringe in terror.

I don’t care about her shame and the damage she did to deal with it.

I am dealing with the shame and memory of her, the one I remember as “my love” and the truth about who she is now and will always be.

I never judged her and I made it clear always she was safe with me, any shame or regrets, she was safe.

What I didn’t know, she was always safe, never a worry about the world she actually lives in.

I was never safe and I feel the damage now.


FF,

I shake sometimes just looking at my phone. I am traumatized, I have trauma, I will for a while. The terrible things I have to confront give me the strength to realize who would be calling, only the real one, the damaged and destructive one.

The one I fantasize about reaching out is the one I kept imagining existed for so long.

[Sandb2015]

I will play along with her if she wants to recycle/reconnect with no intentions of doing so.

Any communication will consist of her explaining again that everything was my fault and probably try to devalue me or let me know how "happy" she is.

I would rather not have any communication.

That is my plan as I get stronger.

bpdfamily, you tube, books, all information, friends, family...none is enough for me, I am the edge it seems.

When I was first kicked out and strung along, I was desperate and I saw that my will could move mountains.  I seriously considered ending my life and as that subsided or wrestled with it, commit myself because I was so scared. I almost lost it.

Now, It's over and I look back at the 4 years, I don't think of suicide too much and wouldn't commit myself.

They are two different pains between the fear of loss and the actual loss and looking back as though it was a sham.  I feel swindled and betrayed.

From the NICOLAMETHOD to here, I understand my codependancy tendencies became full blown leading to this damage.  I am damaged now, not because I had not been loved as a child and my Mom most likely had some PD and alcoholic.

She damaged me and gave me a glimpse of how one person, a love can almost destroy a good man.

I am that good man now, with great qualities that needs to love myself or keep myself for me UNTIL I meet the ones or share with the ones that will appreciate it in a healthy way.  I didn't lose heart, it's just not as open or available anymore.

Red flags...you betcha! I have a wicked filter now.

[Sandb2015]

To give love and be met with rejection is life.

To give love and, have it pretend to be accepted and given, exploited, manipulated until the damage is so severe with no remorse, guilt or afterthoughts. Criminal.

If I was evidence at her trial, she’d be found guilty with little justice felt.

This has been a tragedy in my life.

I was my strongest emotionally when we met, not with much money, but a world of love, acceptance, understanding, forgiveness and all the great things that come with the sharing.

She pretended to share and slowly started breaking me down while I thought it was isolated and tricked myself in this abusive cycle with someone who created and fed off it.

I’m left to heal indefinitely while I remember who I was that I want to be and feel again.

I try to remember who I was like I remember who I thought she was.

I feel indefinitely damaged.

From “the love of my life” to a monster I wouldn’t wish on anyone. I was tricked for lack of a better word inside, mentality and emotionally.  In the end the joke is there was nothing left to damage so she “let me go” or I was showing signs of fighting back a little (some lying is constructive.

[Cat Familiar]

So now you feel tricked, abused, damaged by this person. What are you going to do to enjoy life again?

[Sandb2015]

Cat familiar,

Thank you.

I will try to not stay in this frame of mind for long and get some joy, potential joy. I won’t go to the gym, join a gym, maybe some day, everyone should I guess.

The physical things that are recommended here for dealing with rumination don’t work on me, I’m way too cerebral. I need to think about the details or something to look forward to and focus.  Basically, those things don’t work with me, I brood.

I’m trying to reconnect with my best friend that I was isolated from, I will stay connected.

I will look forward to the beach as I’m very close now. I am on a dating app to feel kinda normal. If and only if, it would just be some dating here and there.

I’ve always been social and friendly. That was systematically removed because it was a threat and caused tremendous jealousy and paranoia. I want myself back and I see it on the horizon...it’s there but far.

Mostly, reevaluate my life. I need a job and a place to call home.

She got the best of me, the very best and almost killed me with it. I can’t get that time back. I will get me back somehow.


I will take every opportunity to cause her grief. It’s how I am and some people are built that way. My great big heart has a grudge side also.

I won’t remember her as my lover with the beautiful memories,  unlike past lovers, she’s in my mind now in a different way.

I’ll do my best to be there at her deathbed as a comfort to both of us maybe, I’ll be selfish and it’s okay.  Sorry to be dark, I’m dark and no apologies.

[formflier]

I will take every opportunity to cause her grief. It’s how I am and some people are built that way. My great big heart has a grudge side also.
 

Relationships reveal many parts of ourselves...some that we like...some that we hope to leave in our past as we mature and move on through life.

I'm wondering if this is an opportunity to find a different outlet for your pain..

 

Best,

FF

[Sandb2015]

formflier,

I know grudge holding and negative thoughts may extent this pain.

I have to keep seeing the truth of what happened and why I am still connected.

The negative stuff can't be swept under the carpet, I'm meeting them head on in a very painful way.

I ask myself what the truth was? I ask in order to actually see it.

I had/have codependent tendencies, but the nature of her disease and my issues caused me severe trauma, not her, I am not feeling her side anymore, I don't want to think about her permanent pain she has inside that comes out as destruction to those that try and love her.

My codependency would not be a problem if I were with someone that was loving also, growth from good intentions, acceptance, understanding, forgiveness, the want to sustain a rs.  I know what was missing and how my codependency came into play.

I was not loved by my mother and she had her issues along with alcoholism.  I revisit the unhappy times where I could have been given attention and love.  It hurts and I must see it, feel it and think about it.

I don't feel the need to put one thing away while I deal with another regarding my issues now and the potential cause and the solution.  It's all a lot.

I ask myself why I still feel connected, why I do care about her and really do love her?

Why do I wonder about later? Why do I think that in my mind, something would be different later if we have contact with boundaries.  Why do I fantasize that somewhere later, there is a more meaningful connection for us?

I am conflicted with my idea of our connection, if there was one to begin with.

I have closure regarding now, I think about it and she is not mine now and I don't want to be hers now.  What is later? A fantasy, a dream, hope?  This may prolong this pain, I will always wonder I think.

Is this part of the letting go and healing process?  I feel stronger (I was kidding myself before) now and I do take multiple steps back in waves.  

I had/have such emotional and mental thoughts regarding her having sex with someone and them getting what I long for.  That she is giving someone else this pleasure and she is receiving pleasure as we did is sometimes overwhelming.

This is such a problem for me...it's a would that festers.


As time passes, I can still love as a memory, but this thing about her being sexually intimate with someone is the one thing that is overwhelming to me more than anything.

I am dealing with everything else fairly good, the abuse, the words, how I allowed myself to be treated and the pain, loss of self esteem, confidence, self worth.  They all sting, not to badly now.

I have tried to be logical and say she was with other guys before me and I didn't dwell on it.  I know there were more than she said probably, that adds to the confusion, that doesn't bother me.  If she cheated on me, I think about that also, doesn't bother me too much, I doubt it, but I'll never know.

Because I was curious and saw the car and drive within a few miles of his home and imagine seeing him or them on my long commute home, it's hard to get away from mentally, it's rough.

If she bounced to another guy and wasn't with this one, it may help me, I can't wait for that knowledge or even want to do the work to find out.

I know this is more about me and should be, not her or what she does/doesn't do with who.

My best friend didn't want to hear her name anymore, it was overwhelming for him and he couldn't empathize with me and it was frustrating for both of us, I know my role in trying to be understood and unfortunately, this board may be the only place where WE receive validation of some kind.

By digging deeply to find out who she is with, the great lengths I went to is now a poison in my mind.

She went to the wedding alone...doesn't mean much.

Going on a date, being honest about what I don't want, maybe having sexual relations with someone may be a distraction, maybe a healthy one, I'm not sure.

I feel like a lowlife, I know I'm not.

I haven't sent a resume in weeks and I need to badly.  Every time there was an issue in the last few months, good or bad, it sucked away all of my motivation.  Now i'm stuck and the situation geographically is difficult.  I moved to NJ to live with her and that was my life.  I wanted to and had my mind set on working and getting an apt there.  I grew up in NY and I put it so far behind me and don't want to get stuck.  I adapted so well to NJ and my life with her.  I want to be far from NY/Queens/Long island. 

I think about her having sex, where will I locate, my daily commute and thinking about them, the day when I would feel like a lowlife.


  

[Cat Familiar]

I have to keep seeing the truth of what happened and why I am still connected.

There were some good times with her and that's what keeps you connected to her in your mind. But she is neither good nor bad--she is the totality of what you experienced. It doesn't help you to think of her as "bad"--nor is it helpful to dwell on the good.

The question to ask yourself is why would you fixate on someone who brought you so much grief? Do you think that may be connected to desperately wanting your mother to love you when she didn't show you that maternal affection?

[Sandb2015]

Cat familiar,

Thank you.

It could be anything at this point.

Yes, my mother didn't love me or show me affection and when my step father came into the picture, she was jealous of the attention he gave me, he was a "buffer supreme" and I am forever grateful for his existence. That went on for over 20 years.

My attachment is severe and the trauma that is real is continuous.

 I am getting over the loss of this rs.  I am having trouble with the deception, betrayal, lack of empathy, indifference that another person can exhibit.  How can a person function with this heartless drive through life?

I am not stuck on the "good times", I am stuck on the discard and the person that has zero remorse, guilt or anything we consider human.

I was too trusting, I didn't know this level of "human" could exist and I'm still shocked at it.

Everyone played with the term "evil" here somewhere.  She is evil in her actions.

I barely miss her at this point, I am stuck on the shock of how a person can get through life this way.

She was void of empathy so I'm thinking a little NPD.  I don't see her much, I just feel the absolute indifference.

The lack of empathy is dangerous, truly dangerous in life.