How do I reach out my daughter when she will not allow us talk to her

[rolney]

Hello all.

I have been reading posts here for a while and didn't quite know how to start or what I wanted to say. I still dont really so please bear with me.

Briefly; my 34 year old daughter (married with 2 children aged 11 and 2) is un-diagnosed but  she went to a psychiatrist when she was 17 (just once) and he reported to our doctor that she showed traits of either Bi Polar or BPD. She never went back and began a trail of destruction lasting until the birth of her first daughter when she was 22.
The relationship with that partner didn't last as he was violent and they finally separated when the child was 2. She seemed to get herself together and her career soared, resulting in her holding very senior management positions in several large companies ( she rarely stays beyond 2 years).It would seem from my research that she fits into the "high functioning" BPD category.   
She met her husband when her 1st daughter was 3 and they now have their own daughter, aged 2.5. He is a gorgeous man and they are very financially successful.  However he became unhappy at her constant anger outbursts in the past 18 months and when he broached the subject with her in November 2018 she flipped out. Within a week she transferred her rage to me and, well you all know what that feels like so I don't need to do details...net result I have been cut out of her life along with her dad and brother though she insists I cut her off and I manipulated them into cutting her off. We have phoned, messaged, emailed, driven to her house (she lives in the same suburb as us) and she refuses to see or speak to us.
In the early months she still let us see her children but that has now been reduced to 2 hours in the last 2 months  (they were used to coming to me at least once a week for a full day and often a sleepover). She will not respond to any message from me and said I couldn't have the girls unsupervised. She was responding respond to messages from her dad (who works away every second week) and allowed us see the girls for the couple of hours when he was home. Just to reassure you she has said the way I treated and loved her girls made everything else ok (no idea what "everything else" is) so she isn't keeping them away because she thinks I would hurt them in any way. ...I'm boring myself now so I will jump straight to my question.

We are now in a position where she will not respond to any message from myself or my husband. All our messages are asking to see the girls. It has now been 5 weeks since we were allowed have them and I am really struggling emotionally with this separation. I know her 11 year old will not ask to see us because she "doesn't want mum to get mad". We are at a total loss as to what to do next. Can anyone advise how we should approach her to try and build a bridge so we can see our grandchildren?
Thanks in advance..

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Only Human]

Hi and Welcome, rolney!

I'm so sorry that you had to find us but I'm glad you did, and I'm glad you took the plunge and posted here, asking for support. It's not easy, I know. Having a support network is critical for those of us who have a relationship with a pwBPD (person with BPD), and  bpdfamily is a safe place to share. Things can get better, rolney, and posting here, reading here, and posting in other's threads is a great way to get started. Do you have any support in your real world? A Therapist? Understanding friends/family members?

Many other members will be able to relate to what you have shared, myself included. I have just one grandchild. My DD25 is mother to my GS4.5 and I understand how it feels to be cut off from them. The longest period was about three months and I felt so very sad and hopeless.

Given that your daughter has rejected all means of communication, you may want to step back for the time being. It doesn't have to be forever, just for now. In my experience, I learned that if I ever wanted to be in contact with my GS, I  had to first repair the relationship with my DD. We have lots of tools that can help with that, and many other people here who are walking a similar path and are here to support you as you learn healthy ways to navigate this intense relationship. A good place to start is this thread, pinned to the top of this discussion board. Here is a link:

HOW TO GET THE MOST OUT OF THIS SITE

It's got links to many of our best article with links to more.

Have a look around, get settled in, and keep posting, rolney. We are all here to help and to share our experiences and strength. You don't have to do this alone!

Again, Welcome to the Family!

~ OH

[Only Human]

she has said the way I treated and loved her girls made everything else ok (no idea what "everything else" is) so she isn't keeping them away because she thinks I would hurt them in any way.

I also meant to say that this sentence is full of hope. Your DD trusts you with your GC.

Can anyone advise how we should approach her to try and build a bridge so we can see our grandchildren?

My best advise is to learn all you can about BPD and the reasons behind some of the destructive behaviors. Knowing the "why" often helps us to have more compassion and empathy, an important stepping stone toward reconciliation.  bpdfamily is chock-full of clinically responsible literature, workshops, and thoughtful discussion here on the message boards. You are in good hands.

We talk a lot about self-care here, and for good reason. We are best able to ride out the storms when we are rested, healthy, and are enjoying our lives. So I also highly recommend you taking very good care of yourself. What does that look like to you? Are there things you enjoy that have taken a back seat lately?

I hope to hear more from you and how we can best support you.

~ OH

[rolney]

Thank you for your understanding and support. I will continue reading through the posts. I have read most books written on BPD, watched youtube videos from the professionals  and have read many medical research papers. I am currently attending a Family Connections group in my city and find it beneficial, particularly being in the company of other people who understand my experience. However so far, I find it would be beneficial only if my DD would give me the opportunity to speak to her and I could apply the tools I'm learning, but she won't. My fear is she is telling my grandchildren that we just dont care enough to come and see them because she really believes we have cut her off.
I could just turn up at her house and start to speak to her but when I sent her a "loving" email saying how concerned we are about her mental health and reminding her of her visit to the psychiatrist she got so angry she actively tried to break up our marriage by telling my husband I had an affair 20 years ago (not true!) and getting an ex disgruntled friend to agree with her - she sent the message from the ex friend directly to my husband who works away. I have no idea what she could do next if she attacks. She has never been this malicious before. I'm beyond hurt, I feel a part of me has died. I really struggle to apply the principles of DBT when she is being so destructive toward us.

[Only Human]

Well then, you are ahead of the game, bravo!   I've been on the wait list for Family Connections since last year, glad you are finding it beneficial, and that you have others in your life who can relate. I understand that it's impossible to put into practice all you've learned with your DD because she has shut you out completely, and has lashed out so destructively, you don't know what she'll do next. You're in a tough spot, no doubt about it.

You said all your messages are asking to see your GC. Have you considered sending a message letting her know you would like to work on repairing your relationship with her?

~ OH

[mggt]

We have been in the same situation as you many many times. Our d has 2 children. She has kept them away from us due to her bod and anger towards us. 3 separate times once for 11 months once for 3 months and this last time 4 months. We adore our gc. My heart was broken depressed couldn’t sleep  etc. she uses them as pawns against us.  She doesn’t realize or care that she is hurting them along with us. It is very scary that she can do that deliberately to her own children but she has. We are now back in contact ,  we use to see them weekly with our gd staying over every week and I would bring her to school in the morning and we would see gs weekly, 


She has a new boyfriend and is pregnant again. .  This is the third child by 3 different guys.   We now see our gc every other Saturday. And according to our gd.  She said “mommy said you and papa can’t see the new baby and that hurts my feelings”.

We tried to tell our gc it was ok and things would work out. During the time we were nc. Our gd asked us how come you didn’t want to see me.  Ugggg the things our d tells our gc is terrible.   

It has been a long road with our d she was diagnosed at roughly 16. Took her to many many drs.  She was in a residential center for a year. Nothing really helped.  She has a lot of anger.  And it is always pointed to us.  It so hard when there are gc involved .This last time my husband met her at work and asked her if we could see her and gc. Eventually she came around and now we see our gc every other Saturday.
Maybe give her some time and concentrate on her not the gc tell her you want to see her vs the gc. Maybe she will feel wanted. Who knows all of our stories are different. Buy very similar.  Good luck

[rolney]

Mggt thank you for that. Your story sounds so similar to ours. The last time she did this was when the 11 year old was 18 months. We have been blessed to have 9 years without her withholding the children so this one came as a total shock.

I think you are right, I need to focus on repairing my relationship with her so she doesn't feel it's all about the kids, though the truth is, it is all about the kids. She has been so destructive and hurtful to us that I really struggle to want to repair it to be honest. But I know I have to for the sake of the kids. I might try that.

I feel for you. Only we in this situation can truly understand the all encompassing pain and it's so good to be able to share without judgement and not have to explain the outrageous things our BPD children do. I have fantastic friends who are very supportive but at the end of the day they just dont "get it".  Thanks again.

[mggt]

Dear Rolney, What my h did when he met with our d. He concentrated conversation about missing her. Nothing about gc. It’s sad. But that’s what we had to do. To be able to see our gc. We love our d very very much. But to be quite honest we do not like her 99 percent of the time. Due to her BPD and all that has come with her over the years. Maybe that will help.

Just a side note we adopted our d at 5 days old and acted as if she was the first baby ever born.  A lot of info out there is that the parents must have caused it somehow someway. Drives me insane we are always blamed. It’s not us.  I believe it is all brain based. Our d recently reunited with her birth mom. And wow the apple doesn’t fall from the tree .  Keep focusing on having relationship with your d. Might sound fake. But we have to do what it takes to see our gc. Sending good thoughts

[wendydarling]

Hi rolney  

I join Only Human and mggt welcoming you. I'm glad you've joined us for support and hope you stick around and learn with us as you work toward improving your situation.

That's a shocking attack on your integrity and your marriage and it's no wonder you are struggling with wanting to repair the relationship with your daughter if it were not for your grandchildren. mggt gives good advice that's worked for her to focus on your DD.

You mention she has a psychiatrist, is she in therapy too?

Welcome again.

WDx

[rolney]

Hi Wendydarling and Mggt, thanks for your kind words. My daughter doesn't have a psychiatrist now as there is nothing whatever wrong with her!..it's everyone else ;). When she lived at home as a teenager I got her to see a psychiatrist then, at 17, who reported back to her doctor that she showed traits of either bipolar or borderline. He'd have to do further investigation to determine which. She never would go back again. She broke her back and both legs in a car crash 6 weeks after that (her 9th car crash, she had 2 more after that) so the focus became about her physical health. Then she left home, moved in with a career criminal drug dealer who was jailed 6 months later. She waited for him for 22 months til he was released and promptly became pregnant, producing our first and totally adored granddaughter who is 11 now. She did get her act together very well after the birth of her daughter and her relationship with the dad ended. She climbed the corporate ladder and became very financially successful. She is very bright but she doesn't last more than 2 years in any job and always leaves because of a conflict with somebody. When her daughter was 3 she met an old school friend and they married 3 years later. He is a beautiful man and they are a very successful couple who now have a daughter of their own (aged 2.5). However her husband said he wasn't happy anymore because she seems to be getting angrier and angrier...and that was the fuse lit for this particular outburst. It's been going on 7 months now but she deflected her anger about her marriage to mine and tried to break it up. Now she has cut us off completely.

However, today I took the advice here and emailed her telling her I am so sorry for not understanding how she felt ( I did a lot of validating feelings as we are taught in Family Connections), rather than discussing "facts" which of course she doesn't get.  Fingers crossed!...but it's a good sign that she hasn't replied yet. If she is angry at what she has read she will respond within the hour.

[rolney]

Hi Mggt...I am so with you on the research that says we (the parents) caused it. I instantly dismiss that rubbish now when I read it as I have read much more up to date research and it is showing a genetic pre-disposition, coupled with environment (things that happen, mostly outside the home) that can trigger BPD in those susceptible. Also I read a report, which I can't find since, that said all the data to produce the research about neglectful and abusive parents was taken from interviews with the BPD patients. Well we all know we are the target when they are having an episode and we become the devil incarnate in their eyes. They distort the truth to fit their feelings...and that information formed the basis of the research. It is dreadfully flawed and for me, instantly discredits any source that continues with that line of thinking. We are hurt enough by our child without being told it's our fault cos we must have been bad parents. I know people who will not get help, nor will accept their childs BPD because they dont want the stigma of their involvement in it. It's so wrong.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Enabler]

Hi All,

What if we redefined 'wrong' and 'right'?

I was mulling this over on the tube on the way home last night. Here's a hypothetical scenario... I hold a big kids party and I decide to make peanut butter sandwiches for all the kids... there's 50 6yr old kids. Kids love peanut butter sandwiches don't they? Sadly, one of the kids (2%) eats some of the sandwiches (loves them), and he has a huge allergic reaction and ends up in hospital. The boy had never eaten a peanut in his life, neither he nor his parents or I had a clue that he had the genetic/physical make-up that made him have a high intolerance to peanuts. No clue at all... nada.

So the kid recovers, but the kid and his parents have now develop some resentment/anger towards me since they felt that it was utterly irresponsible of me to supply peanut butter sandwiches at a children's party due to the high media coverage of children having peanut allergies. The incident was highly traumatic and the kid spent several weeks in hospital, some of which the parents feared for his life. They blame me. They've contacted a lawyer who has filed a civil claim on me for damages.

In my mind I didn't anticipate that an un-diagnosed child of 6yrs old would be present at the party. I wasn't in my field of expectation. Had I have known I would have treated him differently. I wouldn't have had a peanut in my house let alone allowed others to eat peanuts around him. I would have behaved differently. The fact that it happened on my watch, I have to take responsibility for, I feel sad about it, I feel some level of regret, and relief that the boy didn't die. However, I don't feel responsible for not knowing something that was unreasonable for someone to expect me to know. I did something 'wrong' and there was a 'right' way to have acted, which would have avoided pain and suffering for other people... including myself.

Hopefully this gets my point across... BPD effects upwards of 3% of the US population. Having an emotionally sensitive child which has the preconditioned potential to develop BPD/traits of BPD is not something that can be reasonably expected that the majority of parents should plan for. There's a set of parents who go out of their way to make their children's lives hell on earth, I'm not talking about these people. There are other parents that unknowingly hand their kids peanut butter sandwiches and unknowingly go about their business whilst their kid has an extreme, unseen allergic reaction causing long term emotional damage. 'Wrong'? No. Causing great harm and distress and long term damage... probably yes.

"I didn't know" isn't going to be something that our beloved pwBPD are likely to accept or understand, however, maybe, this is something that we can use to accept how we did do something 'wrong' without wilfully knowing our actions, behaviour and communication were causing harm. I'm doubtful there is anyone on these boards who wouldn't have done something differently had they have known what to do or in some way anticipated the outcomes they are now dealing with.

Soften your hearts peeps,

Enabler

[mamabolivia]

Enabler - what a wonderful metaphor! thank you for taking teh time to write it down for us!

[mggt]

Hi enabler, Im not sure I understand your metaphor  Do you mean we have done something unconscious to our BPDs and didn't mean to treat them a certain way?

Therefore it is our fault that they have BPD and somehow we caused this ,  not totally caused the BPD but contributed to the disease.  Please clarify I am a wee bit confused   mggt   

[Enabler]

Do you mean we have done something unconscious to our BPDs and didn't mean to treat them a certain way?

Therefore it is our fault that they have BPD and somehow we caused this ,  not totally caused the BPD but contributed to the disease. 

Morning all,

Conscious with good intent or unconscious with no intent... the point I am making is that without any harmful intention our behaviour as parents could have had an impact into the manifestation of BPD or BPD traits. As parents we do not know everything, some things aren't visible and we're certainly not all experienced psychologists to 'read' visible signs. I think all of us parents would say that we would have acted differently had we have known the outcomes we are facing now. Can you apportion 'fault' here? Well for me that comes down to how humble you want to be... I have acknowledged 'fault' to my kids. I know now that my parenting style did not suit the temperament and emotional sensitivity of at least 1 of my kids. I've made changes, she see's this and we acknowledge it to each other. I feel greatly blessed by the opportunity I have had to learn here... I see my uBPDw blissfully unaware that her actions wound my eldest daughter.

I have 3 daughters aged 10, 8 and 6. D6 acts in a BPDish way because she's 6, I know this now so leave her to get over herself and then come back to her when that's happened. D8 is emotionally very stable, she's pretty rational and can compute pretty complex emotional situations and come to rational conclusions. D10 is VERY emotionally sensitive, she gets abandonment fears which ironically my uBPDw see's as her being selfish and not wanting her to go out (siiiiiigh), she regularly rages and even protests that she wants to kill herself, and more. D8 and D10 were parented identically but given their different base personality sensitivities, they have emotionally matured at different rates in different ways. In many respects D8 is far far more emotionally mature than D10. I have been aware of BPD for the last 2 years, and with that awareness realise that my different children NEED parenting in different ways. Is the damage already done with D10... maybe, I don't know yet. Will I feel guilt for parenting the 'wrong' way for 7-8yrs if the outcome is full blown BPD? Yes. Will I  perceive myself as a bad parent who didn't do his level best... absolutely NO.

For me this isn't so much about 'blame or 'fault' or 'wrong' or 'right'... it's about saying "What I did contributed to this mess, I didn't know nor was it reasonable to expect me to know, but I have blood on my hands and I want to humble myself and make myself accountable for that."

Does this mean that my daughter is entitled to ring me up in her 20's and say that I am the cause of her life long struggle, I am the cause of her 3 illegitimate children, 2 divorces and an expensive drug habit... absolutely not.

Enabler

[mggt]

I’m glad you clarified that , I think we as parents already feel guilt that maybe we said something did something didn’t do something. Since we are all parents I just thought we could be more sensitive to each other’s plight .  Considering the consensus is it’s the parents fault they have BPD .  After all we are blame for everything aren’t we ?  Wishing you well with your girls and wife

[Enabler]

Good support helps you confront the uncomfortable truth in a constructive manner. Good support knows that life isn't simple, parenting isn't simple and we all try our best.

No parent gets it right all the time... FACT.

Blame, fault, right and wrong aren't helpful here.

Enabler

[mggt]

I think why these words are used so much right wrong fault and the rest. Is because these are the words our children adult children use towards us as parents. This has been our experience.  We are all in different stages our our children’s bp. Our d is in her late 20 .  No parent is perfect nor a child. That word perfect should be abolished. Lol. After years and years of being told by our d that everything bad that has happened in her life is our doing. (Fault). It drains my h and I. .  No one knows what your life is like on a day to day basis.what we have in common here is that we love our children more than life and that there is nothing we wouldn’t do to take away their pain , anger , violence , and hopefully one day look at them and see a beautiful smile.and know that are truly happy.

[Only Human]

This thread has reached its posting limit and has been locked. Part two can be found here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=336278.msg13050567#msg13050567