Update on out of contact BPDbf-went to his apartment and he was there, asleep.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

My bf was out of contact from Friday evening until Sunday around 11:00 am. He wouldn't respond to calls or texts from me or his best friend. Finally I went over yesterday to check on him. His phone had been turned off because he wasn't able to pay the bill. Also, he took some OTC sleep aids and said he had been sleeping for two days. I put money in his account to pay phone bill so he could have a working phone and took him to get some lunch (since he said he didn't think he had eaten since Thursday evening). Then later he said if I truly cared about him that I would have come to check on him Saturday instead of waiting until Sunday.
I watched him take his antidepressant and put the remaining pills in his weekly pill reminder (who knows if he will take them). He has no money. His friend said they will pay for his script to be refilled. His friend also said he could live with them again if he gets evicted.
I'm so sad for him because he is so down...but I cannot do this anymore. I am tired. And I have reached my limit (finally).

[WindofChange]

My bf was out of contact from Friday evening until Sunday around 11:00 am. He wouldn't respond to calls or texts from me or his best friend. Finally I went over yesterday to check on him. His phone had been turned off because he wasn't able to pay the bill. Also, he took some OTC sleep aids and said he had been sleeping for two days. I put money in his account to pay phone bill so he could have a working phone and took him to get some lunch (since he said he didn't think he had eaten since Thursday evening). Then later he said if I truly cared about him that I would have come to check on him Saturday instead of waiting until Sunday.
I watched him take his antidepressant and put the remaining pills in his weekly pill reminder (who knows if he will take them). He has no money. His friend said they will pay for his script to be refilled. His friend also said he could live with them again if he gets evicted.
I'm so sad for him because he is so down...but I cannot do this anymore. I am tired. And I have reached my limit (finally).

[formflier]

  His friend also said he could live with them again if he gets evicted.
I'm so sad for him because he is so down...but I cannot do this anymore. I am tired. And I have reached my limit (finally).

Hey...have you "rescued" him in the past?

I find it telling that instead of saying thank you he "attacks" you for not rescuing him well enough.

Why not respect his space to solve his own problems?

Best,

FF

[I Am Redeemed]

I'm sorry, WofC. I'm glad he is safe, but I know that it's difficult for you to see him in such dire straits while simultaneously knowing that he likely will keep making choices to put himself in these situations, and if you keep hanging around and seeing it, you will feel compelled to fix it. All the while, you know you don't want to do it the rest of your life.

Been there, oh, how I have been there. I paid the rent in uBPDh's motel twice for him to keep him off the street (over two hundred bucks each time), I paid his phone bill, I gave him money for food and for doing laundry. I gave him more money and more money and more money and he never stabilized. And he had a job!

[Cat Familiar]

I cannot do this anymore. I am tired. And I have reached my limit (finally).

What is your next step, now that you've reached your limit?

[WindofChange]

I have rescued him in the past, FF. He did eventually pay me back most of what he owed me. A couple of times I have offered to help him and he has refused. But this time I guess he was desperate. I was disappointed by his reaction, but not surprised. He keeps wanting to make me the target of his anger and frustration. I have ended a few phone calls recently when he started attacking me. Sunday when he said that, I just ignored it. It doesn't hurt me anymore. I've grown mostly immune to that, at least. It's just the guilt and caretaking that I'm still struggling with. I don't think he's been taking his antidepressant. He's at the lowest point I've ever seen. He said he just can't try anymore. I'm really worried about him.
I definitely don't want to keep doing this for the rest of my life, Redeemed. How did you finally stop "helping" your ex?
I was going to end things pretty soon. Now I am wondering if I should wait until we can get him moved in with his friends. I feel that if we don't help him pack up and move, he will leave all his stuff behind (which includes his daughter's toys and bedroom furniture). Then he will have absolutely nothing other than his car. If he hasn't been taking his meds, he's dealing with more depression from that. I don't believe he is thinking clearly at all. I guess that's part of why I feel so compelled to help him. His friend is worn out with this, too. But he and his wife are BPDbf's best friends and they also feel like they have to help him.
I have never had a relationship like this before in my life. I have never habitually given anyone money to help them out. I've never dealt with anyone so seriously depressed and unstable. I feel if I end things right now, he could harm himself. If I wait until he's moved in with his friends, he will have their support to help him through. I don't know what else to do. But he won't help himself. Is this a stupid plan?
I also emailed his therapist to let her know what happened this past weekend. He said he won't go to her anymore, as last week she told him that she would not be able to see him much longer (it's free counseling and I guess they can only do it so long) and that he would need to be thinking about finding another therapist. This is a huge blow as well. Seems like everything is hitting him at once. It is frustrating because he had a job offer a few weeks ago but was told the person in charge yelled a lot and he should not take it personally. He said he couldn't work under those conditions so he didn't take it. I told him he should have taken it. You can imagine how much he liked hearing that.

[WindofChange]

It is so frustrating because he has brought so much of it on himself. But he can't see it. He is always the helpless victim.

[WindofChange]

I do try to set some boundaries. As I was getting off work last night he sent a text asking me to please come over because he couldn't be alone. I had a very difficult day myself. I'm stressed and anxious and depressed in worrying about him. So I told him I needed to work out and offered to meet him at a park halfway between his place and mine. He said never mind, do what you need to do. So I went to a park and walked. Later that evening I called him and he was angry with me for not coming over. Said he guessed me going to the park was more important. I explained that I needed to take care of myself first, as my tank was pretty empty at the moment. He said he was having an anxiety attach earlier and just needed me to come over. But I didn't come. Then he said he got over it so it didn't matter anyway...
I had emailed his therapist to let her know about the weekend's events and that I was concerned about him. She called him and told him if he didn't come in she would call the police. So he called me to yell at me for that and said he was not going to go see her and he left his apartment. I guess he's driving around. I don't know. I'm sitting here at work having heart palpitations.

[formflier]

. But he can't see it. He is always the helpless victim.

Are you actions helping him see it...or providing smoke to his "eyes"?

Big question...

Best,

FF

[I Am Redeemed]

WofC,

My situation was a little bit different because he had been physically abusive to me and I could see his behaviors escalating again to the point where I felt that further contact was putting me in danger. However, the underlying feelings of guilt were the same. Regardless of what he had done, I felt guilty leaving him in the state he was in. I could see that he was not going to get better without some type of intervention leading to treatment, and I had tried to keep him afloat for so long while attempting to coordinate such an intervention. All my efforts were unsuccessful; even the psych eval I asked for when he was convicted of assaulting me did not result in the court forcing him into treatment as I had hoped. I had to just make a clean break for my own well-being. It came down to him or me, and I had a better chance of success with me.

I went nc and suffered through all the feelings that came after: fear that he would harm himself, fear that he would be homeless or starve or overdose on drugs, fear that he would never get help or progress in any way and lose all hope of having a relationship with his kids. I had to just work it out in therapy, and constantly remind myself that he is an adult with choices, even if he does have a mental disorder. He is not so disabled that he is unable to make choices to help himself. He just doesn't want to. He thinks that is someone else's responsibility, and he thinks it's up to everyone else to help him

I think the best thing that could happen is if your bf refuses to go see the therapist and she calls the police. Then he can experience some real consequences for not taking responsibility for his own health and well-being, instead of getting the attention he wants by having you and his friends rush to see if he is okay every other day. He has resources to help him; he is refusing those and instead expects you and others to continually interrupt your own lives to come to his aid and do things he should be doing on his own.

One thing I had to learn was that I have to respect the autonomy of another person to make bad choices. It's one thing to give someone a hand up when they need it, but it's another thing to keep propping up someone who doesn't really want to stand on their own.

[WindofChange]

FF, I'm sorry. I don't really understand your question. Do you mean am I enabling him to continue to be a victim?

Redeemed, parts of your story sound very similar (other than the really big difference of the physical abuse and the fallout from that). He ended up seeing his therapist and I guess he talked his way out of it because he texted me later to ask if I could come and meet with him and talk. I don't really want to.
You are right, they are adults who have the ability to make choices to either help or hurt themselves. And I think our situations are very similar in that they expect others to take care of them and prop them up all the time.

[formflier]

FF, I'm sorry. I don't really understand your question. Do you mean am I enabling him to continue to be a victim?

 

That's close enough...

How do you know your actions are helping...vice hurting or enabling?


If you aren't sure..what should the default answer be?

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

He ended up seeing his therapist and I guess he talked his way out of it because he texted me later to ask if I could come and meet with him and talk. I don't really want to.

If you don't want to, then don't.

What kept me locked in a very unhealthy relationship was trying to avoid feeling guilt. I had to get over that and accept that my ex would think poorly of me. So what? I was ending the relationship anyway--there would be no way he wouldn't feel like a victim. Finally getting to the place where I realized I couldn't control how he felt about me and then realizing that it wasn't my business at all--was very freeing.

BTW, there is never a "good" time to leave a BPD relationship.

[WindofChange]

Thanks for clarifying, FF. Looking back, I'm sure I've rescued him too many times over the years, thinking I was helping someone who couldn't help himself. I thought if I tried hard enough, loved him enough, helped enough, prayed enough (on and on), that he would get to a point where he was healthy and able to take care of himself. Obviously that didn't work out like I thought it would. Was I enabling? Probably. Sigh.
Cat Familiar, I did end up going to meet with him. He said he had something important to share. He told me he had been having more flashbacks to childhood trauma (he was sexually abused by more than one person), and that is what he had spoken with his T about.  This new thing was involving a family member he hadn't realized hurt him back then that way. He said that's why he had been so very depressed (more so than before). If what he told me is true, it's pretty horrible. I can't imagine dealing with it. But...I don't know if I believe him on this latest thing. I do believe he was abused. But I can't help but wonder if he knew that he had to come up with something big to talk his way out of being admitted, so he came up with this new thing to tell his T and me. All he kept saying last week was what a failure he was and how he was screwed because he was out of money and would be evicted, all of that. I knew he hadn't been taking his meds regularly either, which compounds everything. His T wants to get him emotionally stabilized and then see about getting him into an intensive 4 day a week treatment program. Hopefully that will work out. She also thinks he may need to go on disability for a while.
I just don't know if I can believe what he said yesterday. He was made to go to the ER last year when he took muscle relaxants and drank alcohol--and they released him at the end of the day. He talked his way out of being admitted that time. 3 years ago his best friend and I took him to the hospital (suicidal threats and taking Ativan) and called the police because he wouldn't go in. They made him go in. He met with the social worker...and he got out of it that time as well.  I just don't know.
A family member is going to pay his rent for this month, so he managed to get that covered. He has a job interview tomorrow so hopefully that will go okay--although if he needs to get on disability I'm not sure how that will play out. His birthday is this weekend, so I had debated waiting until after that...But you're right, CF. There will never be a "good" time to break up. I just have to do it. Like you, I'll have to get past my own guilty feelings. Honestly, I don't want to see him on his birthday. If I did, I was going to tell him he got his present in the form of me paying $140 for his phone to be turned back on. But why prolong it any more, right? I am unhappy. I am tired of it all. I've given all I can give.

[WindofChange]

After reading through my last post again, I feel like I sound cold about the thing he shared with me. If it's true, as I said, it is pretty horrific. As if the abuse he had previously remembered wasn't bad enough, this is much worse. I feel awful for doubting him. But...he has lied before, often. He has exaggerated things for sympathy and has lied to "avoid conflict." I know these things, I lived with him. It sucks to wonder if I should believe him. If it's true, no wonder he's more traumatized now, and maybe I should wait a little longer. I just don't know. Sorry for going on about this, I just don't know what the right thing is to do.

[Sandb2015]

WindofChange,

You are having a rough time, it's totally understandable.

What are your wishes for him, yourself and if considered, both of you?

Is it after a job, in T, on his own two feet?  Where and how should he be when it is the "right" time?

While you're thinking of his ideal situation for you to leave, are you considering yourself in this ?

[WindofChange]

Hi Sandb2015, thanks for responding. I guess I would just feel better about ending things if he wasn't so very low, if he had a job again and was doing better in therapy. I just want him to be able to get better and to find a job that he is able to do and to be able to keep it. I think that would help him not to feel like a failure.
I feel like leaving when he's so down is the worst possible time...but he has been pretty down for a long time. He has been out of work for a year now. However, he has had opportunities to take two different jobs now, one last fall and one in the past month. Neither one was ideal, but they would have been money coming in. He chose not to accept the positions.
As for me, I don't want to be in this relationship anymore. I imagine my posts are getting tiresome, but I just feel stuck. I want to be able to leave and not feel guilty and not feel like I'm abandoning him at his lowest possible moment. Honestly, I don't want to feel like a horrible person for leaving. But I'm tired of him lashing out at me when he's so down, and then acting as if I should let it go because it's just that he's so depressed. I've told him that I will not put up with him targeting his anger and frustration at me when he's upset. I usually end calls when he starts that, or I leave if I'm with him. The last good period we had together ended when he turned on me and lashed out at me over something minor. And at that point I knew I was not going to keep trying and hoping for another good period again. Now I just want to find the right time to end it. And maybe there will never really be a good time to end it, as Cat Familiar said. But this latest thing he shared with me is making me hesitate. 

[formflier]

Here is the thing. 

Life runs smoother when you respect people.  Respect is easy when they are doing things you agree with.  It's tough when they do things you don't agree with...or (heaven forbid) they are making decisions which you believe are destructive/hurtful to themselves.

All that being said...you need to ask yourself how people "learn" or "mature".

Does a child learn how to tie their shoes by having their parents tie them every day?  Seriously...answer that question, then reflect on the implications for what's best in your relationship now.

FF

[Panda39]

WindofChange,

I see a lot of FOG in your story and it's really hard to see through it.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0

What is his motivation to improve his situation when not improving it is getting him what he wants?  Why would he want to create stability, less drama, be less of a victim if it means you will leave?  Why would he create the "right time" for you to leave when he likes you there taking care of him and rescuing him?  Deliberately or not deliberately he is creating fear and that fear is keeping you tied to him.  Can you see the FOG?

You are waiting for him to decide when you leave rather than making the decision yourself.

My partner also had a hard time leaving his uBPDxw he worried that she wouldn't be able to take care of herself.  His mom told him that she was just like a cat and would land on her feet and you know what?  She did.  He survived before you met and he will survive if you leave.  My partner's ex has found others to fill the role my partner occupied. Her children, friends, family of origin, doctors etc.

I actually had the opposite problem when leaving my marriage, I was afraid I wouldn't be able to provide for my son and myself because I knew I could not count on my ex's financial support.

Both scenarios are about Fear...fear for the other person or for ourselves...Fear.  Fear is what I hear in your story as well.  Maybe that is something to look at.

I know leaving any relationship is hard, it takes time to get to the place when someone leaves it, and we can go back and forth about staying or leaving and all the reasons to do both.  It takes time for our hearts to catch up to our heads too.  I see you here in this deciding place and it is okay to leave and it is okay to stay but be sure that you take your needs into account too, there is an awful lot of focus on him.  What do you need, deserve, want? 

Panda39

[formflier]

I'm nominating Panda39 for the poster with the best set of "Fog lights"! 

Sometimes asking the right question shifts the discussion to a much clearer place. 

The question below is spot on.  Tip of my hat to Panda39.

 Why would he create the "right time" for you to leave when he likes you there taking care of him and rescuing him?  

Now...WOC...can you share how you felt/processed the question the first time you read it?  5th? 10th?

Best,

FF

[WindofChange]

Yep, FF and Panda, you are right. I know you are. I have a hard time admitting it, because it seems like I should have seen this more easily -- and earlier on in the relationship.  It's definitely FOG.
And Panda, as far as the quote that FF commended you on, I have wondered that as well. This is definitely the behavior that gets him attention and gets everyone in "rescue" mode. His best friend, his step-mother, his T and me. Every one of us kicked into gear to help or offer support. I read the above article (I remember reading it a while back, too) and he is definitely a self-punisher. "Do this or I'll hurt myself." Yep. That's him. Maybe it's the only way he can feel like anyone cares.  I don't know. 
He was on the way to his interview this afternoon and called me on my lunch to ask if I would come and see him on his birthday, which is Sunday. I don't want to do it and I tried to be vague and say we'd talk about it. I was considering doing something with my son. I had no intention of seeing him because I was hoping to tell him tomorrow or Saturday that we had to end it. But I didn't want to say that when he was going to a job interview. Then he'd get all upset and screw up the interview and blame me. So I was wishy washy and said okay. But I'm not going to do it. I'll have to tell him tomorrow.
It's true, in essence I have been waiting for him to dictate when I end the relationship. Damn, it is so hard for me to just Do it. But I am so, so tired of it all! Especially after this past week. I'm sick of dealing with it. I am worn out with it. To the point where I am having anxiety and stress over it all.
I paid his phone bill last Sunday, after I told myself I wouldn't give him any more money. And he didn't even ask for it directly. (But come on, telling me your phone is turned off and acting pitiful--I'm sure he knew I'd offer to pay it.)  It was my decision, though. I feel so frustrated with myself over all of this.
As for your other question about my needs...I need to end it. I need to be free of him, free of the worry, obligation, fear, guilt. I want to be happy, at peace, not worried all the damned time. It takes up so much of my energy, energy that I really can't spare anymore. So thank you, FF and Panda39. And others who responded previously. All of your insights are appreciated, even if they are sometimes difficult to read and think about.