Dating anxiety part 2: turns out she's "BPD-like"

[itsmeSnap]

Hello everyone!

I'm back after a long easter getaway with family and just returned to a shocking revelation (spoiler alert: its in the title)

From this previous thread you can read on my first impressions of her if you're interested

tl;dr: I had a gut feeling something was off but went ahead and dated her anyway.

Now after not seeing each other for two weeks she says she just wasn't interested, she mentioned specifically that it was because we hadn't seen each other in a while (the two weeks I was away).

she also mentioned a whole 'nother set of "flaws" she has: she falls in and out "of love" very easily, she's impulsive, idealizes her dates until she has sex with them, a long string of previous failed relationships, etc.

anyway, I sound like I'm ranting about being dumped. truth is, she "fell back in love with me" after I told her I wouldn't keep up with that; we're in that gray area where I know it's not right but I still want to see her, and she's in that "I know I have to put in the work, you deserve better" but knows she probably won't and we're not "broken up" just yet, not that we were exclusive anyway.

So, she mentioned a few of her relationship fails, jumping head first and then regretting it after getting to know the person. There was some flaw she just couldn't stand: they were crybabies, boring, hulk-rivaling angry men, etc.

This got me thinking, if she's attracted to those sort of people, where does that leave me? what is that flaw just waiting to come out after she gets to know me?

Anyway, too long already and its late and I'm a bit typsy, just wanted to give you the news fresh off the press and hear your thoughts on it. On the last thread a few people did mention my feeling was probably right, that there was something wrong. I did kinda put that in the back of my mind and dated her anyway, so don't stop yourself from giving an opinion just because I might not act on it 

Thanks for reading! please comment!

[Sandb2015]

itsmeSnap,

Going on a date, dating someone for a few weeks and finding this out is better than not recognizing it at all.

All in all, it appears that things played out in an intelligent and emotionally mature way on your part.

If you didn't see what you did or experience it in a way to determine potential problems, she might have dove deeply and you may have went for the ride.

Be proud that you can see yourself and another in such a way.

[Lucky Jim]

we're in that gray area where I know it's not right but I still want to see her,

Hey itsmeSnap, I suggest you listen to your gut feelings.  From what you are saying, you already sense that something is "off" with your new friend.  I suffered a lot after ignoring my gut feelings about my BPDxW, so be careful, my friend.  Forewarned is forearmed.

LuckyJim

[itsmeSnap]

I suggest you listen to your gut feelings.  From what you are saying, you already sense that something is "off" with your new friend

Thing is, there are a few feelings at play here: I felt really off right after the first date, but also not wanting to stop seeing her.

I know its not right as a long term thing, but I still want to see her, and yet somehow did my best to have her change her mind about "not being interested in me": I pulled her back in.

Not by appealing to love or attraction: I told her straight up the tragic stories I read on the boards, I told her stories of  -ty marriages that last for years without resolution due to this,the self defeating patterns she most likely had (she thought I was reading her past or something hearing from me the things she'd done), and telling her I wouldn't be there for her in those terms.

I made it seem like she would lose her best chance at a future if she let go of me, and that it wasn't her choice alone to make. She'd have to be available for me, but she wouldn't be able to have me right away even if she chose me.

Maybe that induced vulnerability along with my sudden unavailability made her cling back to me. I did not think about doing it, in my trying to explain her patterns to her and the future it leads to, along with my concerns about it it just came out that way.

Even though I know its not quite right I did pull her back in.

In talking about "toxic patterns" it did come up that she was attracted to these types of guys, always with a major flaw she glossed over due to idealization that eventually surfaced.

It did get me thinking about it, I find these BPD-like people like a metal detector, they also seem to find "my type" effortlessly.

What "thing" do I advertise that she picked up on even while I was not really too into it on the first date? That I listened to her without judging? That I wasn't rude when she mentioned some fringe topics? Maybe my being accommodating is the flaw, others would have ran for the hills long before most likely.

Anyway, going by feeling means staying despite the problems, because I feel like doing that, and I'm sure that's not what you meant, more like go with the anxiety after the first date, run and never look back. I don't feel like doing that, I'd rather ride it out to its inevitable catastrophic end. And then do it again when the next person comes along.

Hey, radical acceptance is part of the process right? I accept that part of me, maybe I'll eventually meet someone who can truly appreciate and cherish that about me. But in the meantime, I'll keep diving on the deep end.

Talk to me guys I know I'm writing a lot, I do want to hear from you. What would you do if it was you in this situation? What would you tell a friend or family member if they told you this?

[I Am Redeemed]

Snap,

Sounds like you spent a lot of time analyzing her and her dysfunctional relationship patterns.

Can you identify your own self defeating patterns?

If you know it's not right in the long term, why on earth would you entertain "diving in the deep end"?

How has "riding it out to the inevitable catastrophic end" worked for you in the past?

Redeemed

[once removed]

she also mentioned a whole 'nother set of "flaws" she has: she falls in and out "of love" very easily, she's impulsive, idealizes her dates until she has sex with them, a long string of previous failed relationships, etc.

this sounds like immaturity; like shes not sure what she wants in a partner. high school love.

we all have a string of previous failed relationships btw 

I made it seem like she would lose her best chance at a future

do you see yourself as the solution to her problems?

inevitable catastrophic end

is this what youre looking for in a relationship?

[itsmeSnap]

Can you identify your own self defeating patterns?

I am trying but apparently they elude me, I don't think while I'm doing it, it just happens, only after do I see where I stand.

If you know it's not right in the long term, why on earth would you entertain "diving in the deep end"?

I feel like a man in a desert being offered cloudy water, do I risk it or face the burning desert with a dried out soul but with an iron will to soldier on? I'm kinda waiting to see if the water will settle to a clear fresh thing.

I don't know, maybe my own desire to be accepted that I'm willing to give her a chance. It is a feeling, not a logical thing.

Also, I'm not caught up on it working or not, I am ready to let go if she says its final, she didn't, she said she felt much much less into it, but still something. I called bull on her reasons, and she reconsidered. She still feels attracted to me, that's all I need to dive in.

How has "riding it out to the inevitable catastrophic end" worked for you in the past?

Not sure how to answer this? Obviously relationships failed, but never from giving up too soon, from not trying to make it work, never have I let anyone step over me because of it. It just hasn't worked.

One success story is with my dad who I thought had no fix, and it turns out he did learn from what I told him and how I responded to him, so I know its effective, now I have a working relationship with him from not giving up on him.

this sounds like immaturity

Indeed it is, and she admits it.

we all have a string of previous failed relationships btw

But not 3 months at a time like clockwork after having fallen deep in the first few dates every single time, enough that she recognizes it as a pattern that she needed to mention.

do you see yourself as the solution to her problems?

I do not. I will admit I am being selfish, I kinda see the relationship as a relief from the only thing missing from my life. Everything else is ok (other than relationships), I just don't have anyone to share with. I want this.

Don't get me wrong, it's not like that "need satisfying object" model thing I've read about (or maybe it is and I'm also being immature about this), I enjoy being with her during the moment, but there are maybe red flags I'm consciously ignoring after the fact for the sake of having those moments.

is this what youre looking for in a relationship?

No, but I'm willing to risk it. I told her from the start, I don't want a short term thing, I don't want a doom clock on it (she mentioned her usual three months timetable, plus the risk of breakup from "wanting her solitude"), and that I will not stand her "slipping" and going out to get her romantic fix with anyone else if we were exclusive and I was not available.

I do want a relationship, just maybe not particularly picky about it other than I need to like her and I need her to like me back.

Ok too long again, dissect my answers and tell me what you think. I know I'm being a bit contrarian here, so bear with me 

[once removed]

But not 3 months at a time like clockwork

over 90% of relationships end around 90 days.

tell me what you think

okay. youre a guy who likes it straight.

im not sure this is a promising start or approach to a relationship.

its in very early stages. she hadnt seen you in a couple of weeks, and effectively told you she needs more to keep the spark going. this is very typical, although its probably more typical that a person in her position would either push for more, or write it off than communicate that directly.

I called bull on her reasons

these are important signals to read and play cool with. you more or less determined she has a personality disorder (its unclear if you communicated that directly), and told her the only way to break her patterns was to commit to you but that shed have to work in order to have your commitment.

having said that, the two of you are in a "not quite committed not broken up" sort of stage, and sometimes unconventional methods "work". if you see potential in this relationship, if its more than a fling, i would switch gears.

[zachira]

Dating can be hard and painful. I respect you for trying and recognizing the signs early on that she is not right for you. It is usually harder to let someone go when you had hope and getting out there again is unlikely to be much fun. Have you ever though of making friends with a woman first by getting to know her well before considering dating her? From my experience, it is so much easier to let go and move on when there has not been any dating and/or sex.

[JNChell]

Snap, I had to sit with this one for a minute. I’ve decided to come here with some blunt advice. I think that you should listen to Lucky Jim and trust your gut. From what you’ve described, you are entering murky water. You are opening yourself up to a situation that brought you here. The concerning part is that you’re open to it. Take a step back, my friend, and look at it. Place your current situation beside the situation that led you here. What do you see?

[itsmeSnap]

You are opening yourself up to a situation that brought you here. The concerning part is that you’re open to it.

I really don't know what to think about this. I don't want to think some people are inherently unlovable, because that opens up a can of worms that makes me think I may be right up there with them.

When I came here I was shocked that I had been (or at least told) I've been on point, so good, "I deserve better" and all that, only to be left out cold turkey because of some reason I never really figured out. I couldn't imagine I'd done anything wrong, so I looked for a cause.

I also felt that she was "too good to be true" at one point, the exact moment we both agreed we'd be serious. I needed space, she felt unloved, ran away from me.

I have been told I deserve better yet again by this new person, and at least I got to call bs on that and she took it positively. I don't go chasing just whoever, which is why its stupid that I got to hear that twice.

You're soo good that I can't be with you.. you deserve better.. that's bs.

I do not want to be the one to run away. I will not be the one to tell her "well, I had a gut feeling and I have to dump you".

I did not take it well when it happened to me, I will not do it to someone else. It has to be a real reason, a real dealbreaker, something actually serious and consequential. I will not lose anyone else because of some gut feeling.

What if my gut feelings are wrong? oversensitive? miscalibrated? simply misinterpreted? what if I fear the possibility of a real relationship and not that the person I'm dating is no good?

And if they are indeed correct then I'll know to be prepared for what's coming. Like Jim said:

Forewarned is forearmed.

Have you ever though of making friends with a woman first by getting to know her well before considering dating her?

I have, ended up not friends anymore every time. Being friends is different than being interested in someone. I've been on both sides of the mismatch coin and everyone knows when it happens, just nobody ever says anything (for or against) for the sake of not losing that friendship or having another chance in the future, or simply because its awkward and just no, so I have tended to just say it if I'm the one interested and move on if we don't match (or I'm not really attracted).

I know I just went on about not dumping someone over a feeling, but its different when there was a match before. Like zachira said:

From my experience, it is so much easier to let go and move on when there has not been any dating and/or sex.

Indeed it is.

over 90% of relationships end around 90 days

I could be over fitting the data to fit the model.

she hadnt seen you in a couple of weeks, and effectively told you she needs more to keep the spark going

Effectively? she said she lost interest. She also said I kinda spooked her when I told her I'd been thinking of her while I was away. It's not a case of too much or too little I don't think.

told her the only way to break her patterns was to commit to you but that shed have to work in order to have your commitment

This.

I wrote "she'd have to be available to me" meaning I would not just keep chasing her to see if she rekindled her interest, I would not try to win her over. It was more of a you have to want me, and I have to want you back. just because you change your mind doesn't make "us" a thing automatically.

if its more than a fling, i would switch gears.

It is most definitely not a fling. I could have had a fling with her, and I sort of held back. I told her I don't want an expiration date or doom clock on it. I want to see where this leads, I want to give us a chance at a future.

About the switching gears: I will try to give her the reins on this. She asks I deliver. She doesn't, I won't push it, but also not "do anything for her", or "your wish is my command". I don't know how to word it, just go with the flow I guess?. I'll see her on tuesday.

[JNChell]

Hello, Snap. I think that I get what you’re saying here. If not, please correct me, however I can relate to a lot of what you’re saying here.

I may be right up there with them.

I’ve been in this frame of mind. I don’t think that this is the case for you or me. Yes, we have things to work through and process, but we’re doing just that. Self awareness is a big indicator that we are willing/wanting to improve and understand ourselves better. Going a little deeper, we’re consistent in our awareness. We don’t recognize it for a moment then abandon the idea.

When I came here I was shocked that I had been (or at least told) I've been on point, so good, "I deserve better" and all that, only to be left out cold turkey because of some reason I never really figured out. I couldn't imagine I'd done anything wrong, so I looked for a cause.

Can you elaborate on this a little more?

I also felt that she was "too good to be true" at one point,

This is often, but not always, something to look out for. Many relationships start out as a whirlwind and succeed. Often times it ended up being an indication of bad things to come. I agree with you that a knee jerk reaction to this isn’t a good idea, but rather a time to pay closer attention. once removed, IMHO, is an authority on this stuff. He’s done a lot of work in this area. Consider his advice.

You're soo good that I can't be with you.. you deserve better.. that's bs.

Agreed. Biggest cop out in the history of dating. At least I think so.

I do not want to be the one to run away. I will not be the one to tell her "well, I had a gut feeling and I have to dump you".

I did not take it well when it happened to me, I will not do it to someone else. It has to be a real reason, a real dealbreaker, something actually serious and consequential. I will not lose anyone else because of some gut feeling.

I understand and hear your reasoning. It’s legitimate. I come at this from a different angle. One from my childhood experiences. My T has been adamant about me trusting my intuition. She’s told me that adult survivors of childhood abuse are very keen on people. That if we feel something, it’s in our best interests to trust our gut. That’s how we adjusted and survived our environment. Your situation may have been different and your intuition reacts in a different and personal way for you.

What if my gut feelings are wrong? oversensitive? miscalibrated? simply misinterpreted? what if I fear the possibility of a real relationship and not that the person I'm dating is no good?

I think that this is where it’s wise to look inside. Are you sure that you’re ready to date? I guess that we’ll really only know when we put ourselves out there, but just be careful with your feelings, friend. You’ve made a lot of progress. Keep moving forward.

My relationships rarely end in friendship as well. It seems like they should because, logically, it seems like the initial relationship would’ve been friendship. How do we become lovers without the friend dynamic? For me, it’s been jumping in too fast, and the pain of being left (I don’t break it off no matter how bad) is too much. I’ve done that enough and know what the outcome will most likely be if I continue this pattern. It’s time for change because the old ways have not been good for me. Curious about your thoughts on this.

I wrote "she'd have to be available to me" meaning I would not just keep chasing her to see if she rekindled her interest, I would not try to win her over. It was more of a you have to want me, and I have to want you back. just because you change your mind doesn't make "us" a thing automatically.

Your heart and logic are in the right place, but I think that being on the receiving end of this would feel like an ultimatum. Pressure. If she’s sensitive, or BPD’ish, it won’t work.

Also, don’t just “go with the flow “. Be proactive with the tools. Pay more attention to actions, and less to what is said. Appreciate kind words, but make sure they are backed by kind actions. Let us know how it goes tomorrow.

[zachira]

Maybe a good question to ask about someone we are interested in is: Is she or he someone I can trust and might become a lifelong friend? Notice how this person treats you and others, especially if there are extreme behaviors.

[once removed]

I don't want to think some people are inherently unlovable, because that opens up a can of worms that makes me think I may be right up there with them.

people arent inherently unloveable. not everyone though, is going to be the right match for us, and thats okay.

im not suggesting she isnt, or that you should break up with her, by the way. my comments are general.

dating is about getting to know people and getting a better feel for long term potential (its also for practice). most of the time it isnt there, and it ends for what are mostly superficial reasons.

im reading between the lines, but im wondering if by your statement you are indicating that you are afraid to reject others because you dont want to be rejected yourself?

I have been told I deserve better yet again by this new person, and at least I got to call bs on that and she took it positively.

Snap, i dont know if thats what she meant in this instance, but for future reference, lines like "you deserve better" are good lines to take at face value. it is often a line used to let someone off easy. calling BS or arguing can make us look defensive, or not accepting. we dont want to argue someone into being in a relationship with us. people have the right/choice to be picky, immature, etc.

whatever she meant by it, she has obviously reconsidered on some level, which may still be a tentative position. show your strength, and that you can roll with the punches.

What if my gut feelings are wrong? oversensitive? miscalibrated? simply misinterpreted? what if I fear the possibility of a real relationship and not that the person I'm dating is no good?

these are good and reasonable questions. our gut feelings are loaded with past prejudices, experiences, biases, and fears. dont ignore them either - balance them with Wisemind.

I could be over fitting the data to fit the model.

you might be. i did, too.

I wrote "she'd have to be available to me" meaning I would not just keep chasing her to see if she rekindled her interest, I would not try to win her over. It was more of a you have to want me, and I have to want you back. just because you change your mind doesn't make "us" a thing automatically.

this sounds defensive and like youre telegraphing your punches.

It is most definitely not a fling. I could have had a fling with her, and I sort of held back. I told her I don't want an expiration date or doom clock on it. I want to see where this leads, I want to give us a chance at a future.

in a previous thread, you indicated you were not into her (if i recall correctly she was more into you than you were her, correct me if im wrong) and experiencing anxiety over the date/prospect of dealing with her again. in this thread shes pulling away, and youre arguing for a relationship. what happened in between that led to where you are now?

About the switching gears: I will try to give her the reins on this. She asks I deliver. She doesn't, I won't push it, but also not "do anything for her", or "your wish is my command". I don't know how to word it, just go with the flow I guess?. I'll see her on tuesday.

reading other people is a critical life skill, especially in dating. dont wing it. people, especially in the early stages of dating, will not be so upfront about what they want and dont want.

its tuesday. let us know how it went!

[itsmeSnap]

im reading between the lines, but im wondering if by your statement you are indicating that you are afraid to reject others because you dont want to be rejected yourself?

Mostly correct. Buts its kind of a more general idea of "being dismissed outright" or due to some superficial thing.

And its also not about being liked by everyone, but when someone who supposedly liked you and then just doesn't, or "never did", or worse, that they actually did and told me they didn't, until they "changed their mind". I don't know, its complicated?

Its about people doing stupid things over something I value a lot, I guess that makes more sense.

show your strength, and that you can roll with the punches

.
Which is why I didn't once ask her to reconsider. I kinda took her "rejection" and somehow turned into "you're rejecting me, that's fine if you really want that; did you consider that means you can't have Mr. 'you deserve better' anymore?"

this sounds defensive and like youre telegraphing your punches

Indeed it was.

in this thread shes pulling away, and youre arguing for a relationship. what happened in between that led to where you are now?

True I wasn't too into her the first time, but I didn't want to stop seeing her, so I was at least somewhat interested. I never told her anything that would suggest otherwise, or I don't think I did.

As to what happened in between? A second date, feeling so comfortable when close to her, a kiss, then I went away, we talked, first week she was eager to talk to me, next week not so much.

Turns out she thought I met someone there, I was with family, she knew, my female cousin and I tagged each other in a few sightseeing/tourist pictures, of course she didn't know her, we'd gone out just three times and talked about ourselves not family.

I didn't argue for a relationship.

She "lost interest", I said something like "where do I stand then after this?" like well then, what now?, then she said it was not that she felt nothing, then she was on the fence, then she  she wanted me to just pretend it never happened; It did happen, I told her I was bummed that it did, that it changes things even if she's back to "liking me".

I didn't want to be mean to her and tell her to  off, I still wanted to see her, kinda similar to after the first date, but it was her choice.

I gave her dating advice even, like I was never going to see her again, I gave her "feedback" on her approach (or so I thought), told her there are people who are ok with her being "her" (as in losing interest like that, or wanting something temporary), but I wouldn't, I sort of told her "I'm too old for that", not in those exact words but that's the gist, somehow that made me seem "more mature" in her eyes, she was back to liking me.

I told her then about "its not automatic, I have a choice to make here too".

its tuesday. let us know how it went!

Dinner and a movie. she held my arm like we were a couple, quite literally pulled me closer when we were sitting outside waiting to be let into the movie theater, we didn't talk much and I'm not too sure how to feel about that after her little "I get bored of my partners soon after sex" thing.

I just went along with all of it, not once did I try to take the initiative or reject her doing it. She seemed fine with it, but she did say she wanted to see me again sooner than next week.

It seems she made up her mind, but I'm still doubting, though that hasn't stopped me from just keeping at it.

I'm not holding my breath, whatever happens.

I'm really not sure how I would react if she pulled that on me again, probably just a warm goodbye and thanks for the memories.

I want assurances that this will not happen again, but historically for me that just tenses things and resolves nothing, because if I don't believe them or doubt again for some reason I will ask again, and again, and again... I have to be ok with it and just hope she doesn't, I guess that's trust right?

[once removed]

would you say your strategy is "hard to get"?

[itsmeSnap]

would you say your strategy is "hard to get"?

Absolutely not.

More like "Ask and you shall receive". "the soul of the sluggard craves and gets nothing, while the soul of the diligent is richly supplied".

I'm not a religious man, in fact I don't think I believe in god, spirits or the supernatural.  but still, bible quotes .

Hey JNChell

Can you elaborate on this a little more?

my (suspected uBPD) ex told me she thought I deserved better once. Later we "reconciled" and she told me that there was something about the way I talked to her that sent shivers down her spine. She thought I was "so good", sent her anxiety spiking when I didn't talk to her as much after a good night, enough that she became clingy, then "damsel in distress", then angry and cut contact.

I didn't want to seem "clingy" and also I needed a cooldown. I thought I played it cool, she seemed to accept my (to be fair, they were excuses) "reasons" for not talking as much, but after three days she went cold turkey no contact.

I keep repeating this story trying to make sense of it, every time it seems the breakup was less "out of the blue" than the last time I told it.

It was part my fault really, I never told her about my anxiety, I was afraid she was the "risky one" because she still lived with her roomate/ex. Actually I did tell her, and she reassured me that it wasn't like that, and that she had chosen me. I, "Mr. so good you deserve better", still didn't believe it, so I know in part why people reject "a good thing".

"J", this person I'm dating, (is there a convention on using changed names for anonymity? initials can get confusing) also said that I deserved better, that's is why I said I think that "being too good" for someone is a stupid problem to have.

My T has been adamant about me trusting my intuition. She’s told me that adult survivors of childhood abuse are very keen on people. That if we feel something, it’s in our best interests to trust our gut.

I think I'm keen but mostly because I have never been the center of attention, always listening, not often participating.

The thing is I feel a few things and I'm not sure how to interpret them. Easiest is my feelings of wanting to see her again. The others, the insecurity of being left out again, the risk of her rationalizing her leaving me (or worse, cheating or whatever) because "she lost interest" for a while, and most importantly the fear I have that however much I seek it, it seems I'm scared of a real lasting relationship most of all.

Are you sure that you’re ready to date?

I'm ready. I can handle rejection, and I can handle rejecting someone if it comes to that. I'm not hung up on the outcome of dating, but I do want to be with someone.

the pain of being left (I don’t break it off no matter how bad) is too much

I will sound like a self absorbed braggart, but being left despite it being "so good" is also too much, if not worse. With bad you see it falling apart, unable to put it back together; with "too good to be true" its the "what if" that messes with your head, the pristine castle is left abandoned with all its treasures still left inside...

I think that being on the receiving end of this would feel like an ultimatum

Well, it was more like a boundary I'd like to think. The two are similar, yet not the same. I didn't make it a conditional "accept me or else".

Pressure. If she’s sensitive, or BPD’ish, it won’t work.

I'm not forcing her to do anything, and she knew I was ok with it if she picked either way, I did not demand an answer.

Your reply was before I knew what would happen, but now after seeing her again it seemed to have "worked". We'll see for how long.

[once removed]

how long have the two of you been involved at this point?

[itsmeSnap]

how long have the two of you been involved at this point?

From the day we first met to today, nearing two months, less the two weeks that I was away, so one and a half total.

I know right, all that fuzz over one month.

We tried to have sex tonight. It was a "sex date", I thought she was eager to have it, she said it herself, "when are we going to do it?" In a sort of half frustrated half "pouting" (if you know what a "baby rage" is, that)

It didn't go well.

It seems the issue of "bored with partners after sex" was more to do with not being able to wrap her head around why people want sex so much, why so much hurt and disappointment, so much hurt over a basically mechanical thing.

I think she meant it in a "I don't get why people cheat and end relationships because of this" kind of way, it seems her disinterest in it drove previous partners haywire.

She said she felt something for me, and was eager to try it to see if I would be different, if her feelings for me would somehow make sex enjoyable.

I will admit I went overboard, I thought she wanted it so much, she hinted at that, I tried to be good at it for her, it was too much. I guess she did want to, but was disappointed that it being me just didn't change anything for her.

We talked, she was bummed it turned out this way, like she failed as a person for not liking sex enough. I tried to make it about expectations more than letting her internalize it, don't know what effect that had, she seemed at least ambivalent after talking about situations where she does enjoy herself.

She thinks there's something wrong with her, "not normal", I really didn't know how to comfort her other than "everyone experiences it differently".

I did ask if I'd see her again, I did tell her I was worried that she'd want to have sex and say that was it, she said we'd see each other again, I left it at that.

No question this time, just tell me whatever, I still want to see her.

[itsmeSnap]

Yay double post

After sleeping on it I think I know what's going on. We've both been approaching this relationship thing "wrong".

Now I am starting to understand the point you made zachira about getting to know someone before diving deep into a relationship.

I thought it was about being "friends" friends but its more like being open, develop that trust like you said.

You were right once removed, its time to switch gears, now I think I have a better idea of what that means.

I'll see her again next tuesday.

[once removed]

I'll see her again next tuesday.

have fun. show her a good time, and a confident, upbeat Snap.