In a BPD relationship, need some advice.

[Genin]

I’ve been dating this girl for almost a year now. 7 months of it we were officially a couple. She is recovering from BPD (and she informed me of this) while we were just friends. I appreciated her telling me, but it did not stop me from wanting to build a relationship with her. At first things were going well, we were honest on open to each other.  She did express before we were officially a couple that she wasn’t ready for a relationship. I respected her wishes, and did not pursue or pressure her into becoming my girlfriend. Throughout that time, we were still sleeping with each other and doing things that couples do. In October, she was the one who asked me if we can be a couple. I asked her if that what she really wanted, and she told me yes.

Things were going great, nothing really changed. There were times when she would breakdown; but nothing that was focused towards me. As I reflect on our relationship, we hardly fought. There were times when she was “needy”. This would happen mostly when I left for work. She would tell me that she was anxious and didn’t want me to leave. I reassured her that I’ll be there for her. When these episodes happened, asked her if she would like to FaceTime/ call each other, periodically throughout the day. There were times I would call in sick (from work) just to be with her, if those episodes were really hard for her.  One recent fight emerged when I couldn’t stay home with her. She told me that I’m putting my job before her, and that she really needed me that day. I really wanted to be with her that day (and it hurt me seeing her like that) but I did have to go to work.  A few days later we had a talk and she said that she didn’t feel like she’s ready for a relationship.

In that breakup-talk she said that she could see herself regressing back into her old habits, that usually would end in a bad breakup. She told me that she appreciates everything that I’ve done for her, she told me even her parents appreciates it.  She also told me her feelings for me haven’t changed; but request to have things be the same as they were before we were a couple. I did tell her that I will respect her wishes.

We still see each other, and still do “couple things”. We agreed on being less intimate with each other (no sex) but cuddle, take showers, share the same bed, etc. Last night (as she was sleeping in my arms) I asked myself, “Am I just torturing myself?” I have this feeling that we’re never going to go back to being romantic partners, and that’s hurting me.

I need some advice for processing/ recovering/ rationalizing my situation, because there are a lot of emotions that are clouding my thoughts. I can’t decipher what is logical. I don’t know whether to leave this relationship or stay. I really care for her, and wholeheartedly want to be with (and there for) her. I don’t want to be her metaphorical “savior”. I want to be her partner that is journeying with her, during her recovery.

Thanks for hearing me out.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

hi Genin, and

In that breakup-talk she said that she could see herself regressing back into her old habits, that usually would end in a bad breakup.

i would accept this at face value.

recovery from BPD is a long road. BPD is really about deep, underlying fears that plague someone living with them, and those fears are heightened in intimate relationships, commitment, etc.

it sounds like she was over relying on you, which isnt necessarily realistic, but being in that position is also very terrifying for her.

so likely in her mind, stepping back and lessening the commitment can alleviate those fears, although its frankly not that simple.

We still see each other, and still do “couple things”. We agreed on being less intimate with each other (no sex) but cuddle, take showers, share the same bed, etc. Last night (as she was sleeping in my arms) I asked myself, “Am I just torturing myself?” I have this feeling that we’re never going to go back to being romantic partners, and that’s hurting me.

in any relationship with someone with BPD, it requires a great deal of strength and clarity. if you are unsure, anxious, wounded, it is going to make the relationship that much harder on you. its very important to determine what you want, what youre okay with and not okay with, and to live it...things may be subject to change, but we can only work with things as they are right now (Radical Acceptance).

are you comfortable with the status of the relationship? can you be, even if it doesnt change? if not, it would help to determine what, if anything, you want to do about it. we can help.

[Tsunami Sailor]

Hi Genin,

We know and understand these behaviors to be the classic push and pull of BPDs.  I think the first thing you need to realize through your processing is that the actions of someone with BPD cannot be explained through logic.  There is little you could have done, or could do now, that could change the way this person handles herself and her partner in a relationship.  In my opinion, the best thing you can do is to focus on doing what strengthens you and makes you happy as an individual.  Life is 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you respond. 

[Enabler]

I think the first thing you need to realize through your processing is that the actions of someone with BPD cannot be explained through logic.  

Hi Genie,

Firstly I agree with Once Removed re understanding what is and isn't cool with you. You non-GF/GF has caught you in a state of limbo land where you're not a couple but you are a couple... seen through another lens, you're not important enough that if you abandon her you matter, but you're there to support her and do BF things, at arms length so to speak.

Secondly, the only way you can rationalise what is happening is by rationalising through the eyes of an emotionally sensitive persons thought process (or rough guestimate)... empathising DEEPLY with the way that she sees the world. This means putting yourself in her shoes and adjusting your life lens such that you experience all the fears that she has. All those small emotional arousal's, all those tiny physical twinges you get when someones face screws up when you say something to them, all those feint disappointments when someone leaves you or things don't go your way, that deflated feeling you get after an awesome weekend of fun and it comes to an end... if you can atune yourself to those then you'll have a small idea of what her sensitivities might be like and why she might be reacting accordingly.

It is possible to rationalise the 'irrational' but it's taken me well over 2 years of study +21yrs of a relationship to get a partial window into my W's world.

Enabler

[Genin]

I would like to thank everyone for your insights! It helped me clarify some of my thoughts. Currently, things are the same, we still see each other, and still act as if we are a couple. She did break the ‘no-sex’ agreement, the other night, and I asked her if that’s what she really wanted. Last night she, I did see some signs of ‘neediness’, she was getting anxious for her trip.  As of now, i’m It’s just going to see how things unfold. She’s going out of town till Sunday. I believe this will give me time to really think things over, and reflect.

[itsmeSnap]

Intimacy is one thing, sex is another, and they can merge into one expression of passion for one another, but sex can also be just sex. She does seem to enjoy the intimacy, but apparently she holds sex to a different standard.

stepping back and lessening the commitment

is it even possible to have casual, noncommittal sex in an otherwise intimate relationship like that?

She did break the ‘no-sex’ agreement

not to seem nosy but it goes with the previous part of this: was it intimate or just sex?

[Genin]

Intimacy is one thing, sex is another, and they can merge into one expression of passion for one another, but sex can also be just sex. She does seem to enjoy the intimacy, but apparently she holds sex to a different standard.
is it even possible to have casual, noncommittal sex in an otherwise intimate relationship like that?
not to seem nosy but it goes with the previous part of this: was it intimate or just sex?

I know that this a late reply, and I will be updating my situation soon. But honestly we were never able to define the two.

[Genin]

Update

Thank all of you for listening to my story. Here is an update to my current situation.
A lot of things happened during the last 14 months since my last post.
After our initial breakup, we got back a week later. To me, everything was going well. It did feel like things were getting better, in relation to her anxiety and other emotions. 
She was still seeing her therapists and was still using her wellness tools to help her cope with her emotions.  There were still bouts of depression and crying at times. I was there for her during those times in need. I myself was researching a little more about her condition, in hopes to understand.

In August she moved in with me, after her lease was up. She got a part time job, which she seemed to enjoy and wasn’t too stressful for her. It was very situational when it came to her having a good day or bad. One of her triggers was the city, she said that all the noise and people were making her anxious. She made a decision that she wanted to move out of the city, and asked me if I would go with her. I told her that I will have to settle my affaires first, and my lease wasn’t up until March 2020.   

In December she decided that she wanted to be closer to her parents, who lived a little over an hour away from the city. Every weekend I would come and visit her. She started looking for apartments and jobs during that time. During this time she started a new hobby collecting houseplants. She seemed to enjoy it, and felt like it was helping her cope. The only thing that concerned me was the amount, currently she has over 100 plants that I can count. Also she was doing this while, not having a job, and some of them weren’t cheap. I did know that she wasn’t good about money management,  and that she had impulsive tendencies. In my mind I wanted more financial stability before we moved. She wasn’t saving for the apartment, and stopped job searching, which got me concerned. 

I remember one argument that we had was after we looked at an apartment, she said that it feels like I have some hesitation moving with her. I didn’t tell her about my concerns about her financial situations. I expressed to her that I feel  more secure when I have money saved up before doing any big life changes. During this time I was still living in the city and had my job there. I was still settling my obligations, in the city before I moved. I remember her leaving the argument at “ I don’t do long distant relationships.” This is after I told her that this is a big move for me. We were still together, there were ups and downs in the relationship. Times of loving and then depression, but more agitation.

In February her parents invited us for a weekend getaway to their friends beach cabin. She invited her good friend over. Before her friend and her friend’s partner got there, she was loving and it felt like everything was going well. Once her friend got there, she started to devalue me throughout the whole trip. She also started ignoring me.  After the trip ended, I wrote her a message on how I was feeling via text. She called me the next day saying that she didn’t know I was feeling that way. She also stated that she feels like were growing apart from each other.  We were still seeing each other and I was visiting her every week.

In March we did a road trip to Portland. She was loving, even after a meltdown during the trip because of food poisoning. We had to cut the trip early due to COVID-19 and start heading back home.

I gave my two weeks notice from my job, and started a few remote contract jobs. Ialso moved out of my place in the city and moved some of my things at my sister’s place. It was pretty much 3 days at my sister and 4 day at her parents place. She still didn’t have a job and looking for a place was kind of difficult at this time. For me I said to my self, once this whole COVID-19 ordeal dies down, I’ll start looking for places.

The next few months felt okay, I took the relationship for face value. She was still loving at times and then depressed/ agitated. For the most part, we still felt like it we were still in a relationship. In June she did find a job, which seemed promising and that was a big step for her. It made me feel like there was progress and that we could start looking for places.

In the first week of July we got into another argument. We were driving to the lake, and she was starting to get upset. She said that she hated that she was getting fat, and that I was a problem because of my eating habits. -She was also diagnosed with ED. I know she was devaluing me, and at first I was trying my best to validate her. I even asked her how can we find a solution to this. We agreed to start working out with her every weekend. While we were at the lake, she still was ruminating, and she decided that she would like to workout there. I showed her some of my circuit training exercises. She was getting frustrated about her form when I corrected her. She started crying, screaming, and getting angry. At one point she started throwing baseball sized rocks around. One of them was inches away from our dog. For myself,  I was already getting frustrated and was trying hard to control my emotions. It was at one point when she was pestering me that. I remember saying to her “Babe, please I’m frustrated right now too.” I tried to hold it in but I started yelling back. One of the things I remember saying were “You are frustrating me” and “I am doing this all for you!” She then changed her mood and then started comforting me. We were still talking a little bit about it, but it started to become an argument so I calmed myself down.  We drove back to her parents place. I dropped her off and told her that I’m leaving to give you some space, to give her space. I needed to cool down. The next day I called her up to apologize for my outburst and that was not acceptable, for me yelling. I haven’t had an outburst like that with a partner, ever. It made me feel like crap, that I allowed my frustration take me to that point. She apologized to me also, for projecting her feeling onto me.

Last week, when I visited, her we went to the park. She told me that she was not sure if she wants to be in a relationship. She wants to be independent, but she doesn’t want to lose me. She told me that she does love me and that we went through a lot with each other.  She was afraid that I’ll be out of her life, and that she knows that she’s hurting me. She doesn’t want me to wait forever, for the time when she is actually ready for a relationship.   

She is currently distancing herself to me. She does contact me, usually just a text to say morning or goodnight. It’s nothing like before, with the abundant text or calls throughout the day. I did call her once to tell her that I’m respecting her space, and that I care for her.

I came to the acceptance that, we’re probably not coming back from this. I came to the acceptance that, she’s probably moved on. There is still a little part of me wondering if it’s just her push-pulling.  For me, I am hurting right now and trying to cope with it. The past few days i’ve been in my head. When I’m in a relationship, it is hard for me to say I love a person, unless I really mean it. I do love her, and I came into this relationship knowing that it will be a rollercoaster ride of emotions. That it would be a hard road, and I am up for the challenge. I am trying to rationalize and see the situation in her shoes. I see the goodness in her, amongst all her pain and suffering

I do want to give her space, and let her take any initiative on communicating with me. On the other hand, what hurts me the most is, I don’t know if I should tell her how I’m feeling. Secondly, I became really close to her parents. If this is over, I don’t know if I should talk to them as well. So that is where I’m at right now...

Thank you all again for hearing me out.

[St Jude]

Genin,

Wow.  Sounds like it’s been an intense year.  It was really interesting for me to read your early post from the perspective of someone entering the relationship early on.  It seems like your relationship was sort of ‘accidental’ in that you were aware to a degree of the BPD and you guys had decided to not pursue the relationship, but it happened nonetheless.  As a romantic that’s how I think relationships sort of should take fold, in that they happen despite logic and circumstance. 

As for me, I married my partner of 5 years last September.  He does not have a diagnosis but he does exhibit all 9 traits, and he does see a psychiatrist for help coping (he is very against labels and I have not pushed). I am in a recovery program myself of 13 years (AA) and have a lot of tools from that. 

The reason your post interested me is because I have often thought back to the first year of my relationship and thought of some of his episodes and thought, how in the world did it keep going... and reading your story I was reminded.  One day at a time... 

I’m sorry for all that you’re going through, and I just wanted to chime in and give a little encouragement, to just keep taking the next right action, you don’t get to pick how the story of you two will end.  I love my husband, we have many more good days than bad, I genuinely love being with this person and I love his perspective of the world (when he’s not experiencing a BPD episode which are fewer and fewer these days).

  I got a new AA sponsor a couple of years ago, about a year before we got married and she gave me the most simple advice, you need to just keep living your best life and he’s going to rise up and come with you, or he’s not.  That shifted something in me ever so slightly... it’s the acceptance that you don’t get to pick the ending to your story that helped me to focus on the good in life that I have and taking the next right action. 

Having faith is not jumping from point A to point B, it’s jumping from point A.

[once removed]

A lot of things happened during the last 14 months since my last post.

i want to encourage you not to leave your support group.

experts will tell you that its critical. you dont have to do this alone.

i can tell that you love your partner (even in light of the ambiguous status right now). given that, go into this with eyes wide open, with support, with guidance, with a plan. dont wing it.

it sounds like a great deal of the conflict here revolves around the move.

she could tell you were hesitant. personally, i could tell you were hesitant.

from where shes coming from, shes inclined to take that hesitancy as a personal rejection. maybe a lack of commitment. or maybe she wonders "whats wrong" with her. couple that with the stress of the move, feeling out of place, difficulty adapting. she may feel lost, out of place, and sense that you have cold feet. on the side, it sounds like her self esteem is crashing; shes trying to dig out of that, and she may sense that her path lies outside of the relationship.

space is good, in general. too much can be a bad thing (if your goal is to reconnect).

if it were me (and my goal was to reconnect), id be, and i cant overstate this, without overpursuing or chasing, move to trying to rekindle things, to get together. this will require a delicate balance between testing the waters, and reading her and the situation, and backing off if shes not receptive.