Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 29, 2024, 01:47:37 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
84
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Question on Documentation of Events  (Read 577 times)
livednlearned
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Family other
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 12731



« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2019, 01:46:53 PM »

I found myself over the years sometimes blaming my own self that maybe I was in the wrong or taking things wrong, or doing something wrong that I couldn't figure out.  I'm trying to work on getting away from what might have been wrong with me and getting an understanding of what is wrong with her.

I read a description of how BPD thinking differs from non-BPF thinking. For most of us, there is cause and effect. For someone with BPD, it's the reverse. First effect then cause. Meaning, she feels something (experiences effect), then scans the environment (looking for cause). She has no sense of stable "self," so she cannot conceive of the feelings originating within. Her feelings must be caused by something or someone other than her.

And then, if you suggest she is the cause of her own feelings, she feels you must be blaming her. Experiencing of the effect (e.g. feeling abandoned) is caused by someone (e.g. leaving the room). That's like blaming her for you walking out of the room.

A BPD expert once described it as abandonment of the self. Pw BPD are essentially abandoning themselves, then looking for the source of this abandonment everywhere but within, because there is no within that can be understood in terms of "self" the way we perceive it.

To me, that's why your BPD person might be puzzled by GD walking. Having no real sense of self (a boundary), she likely does not experience GD as separate from her (an extension). So seeing you all clap for GD's first steps (go GD, btw!   might be puzzling. She might be thinking, Why is everyone clapping for GD and not me? Or, why are they clapping for me and I feel nothing?

Excerpt
Sometimes, I even ask, why do you still care?

Because it's so bewildering and the lessons so hard won. Knowing that others are struggling with this makes me feel less alone. Also, people who were here during my toughest times walked with me and taught me how to cope and I for one feel those gestures were more profound than any other support I had in my life. Someone was there for me, and I want to do the same for others.

This is the most confounding mental illness.  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)
Logged

Breathe.
Panda39
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
Relationship status: SO and I have been together 9 years and have just moved in together this summer.
Posts: 3462



« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2019, 03:53:15 PM »

The "why" I think eventually becomes acceptance.  At least it has for me, it's been almost 9 years since my Partner and his uBPDxw entered my life.  Because of coming here, learning about BPD, and having her in my life for some time now, I have been able to see patterns in my partner's ex-wife's behaviors.  Seeing those patterns along with no longer trying not to control things I have been able to stop asking why as much and instead I just accept that this or that is just what she does.

She's mentally ill and reacts/does/believes the way she is going to for her own reasons, feelings, experiences, brain development etc.

She will always be weird about health issues, money, appearances, and lie unless she acknowledges there is a problem and seeks help.  The person who should really be asking "why" is her.

Panda39
Logged

"Have you ever looked fear in the face and just said, I just don't care" -Pink
Danali60

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Family other
Posts: 33


« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2019, 06:03:58 PM »

As I always say, thank you again so much for your replies!  You guys are awesome and I really appreciate you.  It is a great feeling to connect with people who are going through, have gone through in the past and have been in contact with people suffering with BPD - and knowing the suffering and toll it takes on others.  It truly makes me feel understood and not alone, which feels wonderful.

I take what each and every one of you says to heart, so I will move forward with your words in mind and practice the things I need to change for myself regarding perspective on these issues.

Thank you all again so much.  If I may, I will probably keep needing help and support as events unfold.  I'm sure my family and especially my son and grandson have a lot to go through in the future.

I am dealing right now with what I believe is the uBPD emotional blackmailing, while trying to get my son to watch her daughter extra evenings while she searches for daycare for her (which she will not find in the evenings anyway)!  But, I see what you are saying that so much of what they say does not make sense.  In fact, he called her last night while watching her daughter and his son and did something I wish he didn't do.

Her daughter is 5 so she notices things and is very smart.  She told my son in an inquisitive way, that mom's "friend" got tired and spent the night in mommy's bed and she didn't know why he didn't just walk home and go to bed because he just lives next door (which is questionable - they are probably living together).  This is the guy who she left my son for.  He called her and told her about what she had said and that she should watch what she does as her daughter sees and hears things that can affect her (hated that he was showing his cards to her there), and she just said "yeah."  By the way, I hope she was able to find someone for daycare at the bar she was drinking at when he called!  She even said that is where she was!  Unbelievable!  But yes, it is believable because it is nervy, self-serving and quite honestly I feel emotional blackmail to my son.  "Get me pissed off and don't take my daughter, and I will retaliate."  By Illinois law, since they are unmarried, she can come and take our grandchild until he is able to prove paternity and then litigation would begin, so basically months could go by where he would not see him.  The only hope we have is that she is not capable of having the kids, even one of them for that long of a period of time.  So he is still living in the fog somewhat, and I get that.  It just breaks a mom's heart to watch this go on.  The little girl also has had behavioral problems which continue to get worse as time goes on, so she is hard to handle.  Ugh!

 
Logged
worriedStepmom
*******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 1157


« Reply #33 on: May 09, 2019, 10:19:10 AM »

I hope he documented that she was at the bar when he called, on a night she was supposed to have the kids.

By Illinois law, since they are unmarried, she can come and take our grandchild until he is able to prove paternity and then litigation would begin
I didn't realize they were unmarried.  Is your son listed on your grandson's birth certificate? 

If so, according to this link then paternity has been established. 
https://illinois.gov/hfs/ChildSupport/FormsBrochures/Pages/hfs3282.aspx

If he is not on the birth certificate, then he needs to start the process to prove paternity NOW.  It looks like Illinois Healthcare and Family Services can help with the paperwork and scheduling a DNA test.

Does he have plans to consult a lawyer to work on the custody agreement and get child support from her?  [Child support could be a great bargaining chip, too - give it up in favor of getting more time with the little girl.]
Logged
Danali60

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Family other
Posts: 33


« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2019, 09:34:43 PM »

I am actually beginning to wonder about his involvement with having his ex-uBPD's daughter.  Aside from the fact that he has raised her almost single-handedly from the age of 4 months and she is now 5-1/2 years old, we have to consider legal aspects.

It's one thing when the child was living with him and he was in a relationship with her mother and they all lived together, although unmarried, as a family (even though unbeknownest to him there were at least 2-1/2 years of cheating going on), they were still living together in a supposed relationship. 

Now, however, mom is no longer in the household, and from a legal standpoint, (not an emotional one), but legal one, she is just like having a neighbor child spending time at his house who is in his care so if anything happens while she is there (example:  falls and hits her head and has to go to the ER, or breaks an arm playing and falling outside, or many of the other million things that happen to kids), then is he not the liable party?  She spends the night there as well which involves baths for the little girl.  Sorry to have to think this way, but I realize fully who I'm dealing with here.  What a perfect setup should she get her feathers ruffled about something (the ex-girlfriend) to start slinging accusations at my son for sexual abuse, or God knows what?

At this point I am so confused!  It seems to me he should just be concerned about his own biological son right now and saving his money for legal costs.  He does not have a copy of his son's birth certificate of course, only she does, but I'm sure he can obtain one.  He has not been to actually see an attorney yet (only a couple of phone calls to the legal aid department his company offers.  They have sent him forms to fill out ahead of time to make the most of his 30 minute free consultation with the actual attorney representing him and he has not even filled them out yet.  I love my son dearly, but all of his life he has been the biggest procrastinator ever, and is still dragging his feet at this point with all of this!  I totally agree - he needs legal advice/representation NOW! 

He keeps taking not only his own son but her daughter as well:  Example:  This schedule was made up by ex-BPD just the past Sunday:

Monday/Tuesday        Son has his own son

Wed/Thursday              Mom has both kids (she has full custody of her
                   daughter)
Friday                              They alternate having GS only on that day

Saturday                          Mom takes both kids

Sunday                            My son has both kids (as a favor to her because she works at a sleazy bar and doesn't get off until 2:00 a.m.; which we just learned from a neighbor across the street today that for the past year or more he is an early riser and would not see her car at home at 4:00 a.m. and sometimes 5:00 a.m.; obviously her cheating hours.

So basically, she did what the schedule called for on Monday.  Tuesday she asked my son to have both kids because she was looking for daycare as posted before (but is sitting in a bar instead).  He took them both.  Wednesday night he had her because she was switching her Thursday night bar shift in order to attend their son's recital this evening.  She was present this evening for the recital as was my son, myself, my husband and my older son.  Tomorrow, is his turn for Fridays and he has both of them.  Saturday she will have them over night for Mother's Day and then return them sometime on Sunday to go to her bar shift. 

He keeps on taking her daughter when he has no obligation whatsoever to do this.  He endures the daughter repeating things to him which upset him greatly, such as they came in the house last night and he said "we're home family," meaning him and the two kids.  Her daughter spoke up and said, "Well this isn't really our REAL home, Mommy's home is our REAL home."  She admitted to him that Mommy told her this. 

I feel terrible for feeling this was as I want to be a support to him but I just feeling like washing my hands of it.  He is taking her daughter who has behavior problems and is hard to handle, mistreats his son, and he still puts up with it - where in the world is his obligation to this?  Oh yeah, for got to add, she won't be able to take them next Saturday (her allotted day from her own made-up schedule), as she has something planned that will involve them going on a party bus for most of the night.  So both kids will again be with my son.

Please, please help!  Is it time to back off and just give it to my Higher Power and pray my heart out that my grandson end up safe and in the right hands?  He obviously is going to do what he wants anyway.  After tonight's recital and directly after our grandson's part of the recital, I had to leave and just go to the car and sit there and wait until the rest was over.  My stomach could not take the poison that was sitting in front of me.  I just couldn't take it anymore.  He positioned us directly behind ex and her parents.  What in God's name does this child of mine expect of us? 

Anything at all from anyone would be appreciated.  I feel so confused, sad, angry, defeated, all at once right now.  Why way to go?
Logged
Panda39
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
Relationship status: SO and I have been together 9 years and have just moved in together this summer.
Posts: 3462



« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2019, 07:31:03 AM »

You don't need to "wash your hands" of you son's situation but you cannot control it.   Your son, his girlfriend, their kids are all gonna do what they're gonna do and in their own time.

You push too hard and you risk your relationship with your son.  It may take him some time to process all of this and take action particularly because children are involved. 

For what it's worth, no your son likely doesn't have legal rights when it comes to his girlfriends daughter but he also has been the only father that little girl knows.  Your son's treatment of her speaks volumes about what a caring person he is and his care is benefiting this little girl who has no choice in who her mother is and likely sees him as her father.  She is an innocent party who will likely be hurt once real separation starts to take place, leaving her behind will also be hard on your son and grandson.

As his mom you want to protect your son, you want him and your GS away from the girlfriend that is causing your son pain, I hear you, I would want the same thing but if, when, and how this happens is up to your son.  Twisting yourself into a pretzel over this is not helping anyone, least of all yourself.  Let go of trying to control this and focus on your time spent with them...enjoy them.

Panda39
Logged

"Have you ever looked fear in the face and just said, I just don't care" -Pink
worriedStepmom
*******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 1157


« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2019, 08:08:22 AM »

I advise you to talk to your son - once - about your concerns that his ex could accuse him of molesting his stepdaughter.  Then you need to drop that line of conversation completely.  He feels a bond and a responsibility to that child, and if you push him to abandon her now, then he may very well pull away from you.

My husband is also a major procrastinator.  He doesn't like to deal with the legal aspects surrounding his uBPDxw or their daughter (or really, any aspect of dealing with his ex), so he puts it off for a long time.  He KNOWS it will cause a major outburst, and he has to be emotionally ready to deal with it.  Your son likely has this, plus it's traumatic to go through a break-up at all.

I help by -
a) doing the research for him on what needs to be done and who needs to be contacted (step by step list with estimated timeframes)
b) print out any documents that need to be filled out, fill out as much as I can myself, and hand them to him to finish and sign.  Then I stick them in the mailbox.
c) make a list of phone numbers that he needs to call and who that is/why he needs to contact them.

Then it is in his hands.

You can tell him stories from this site and tell him our advice.  You can caution him that if he delays, the consequences might be heavy (and more expensive). 

But then it is in his hands.

Don't let all your conversations be about this, either.  If he feels too pressured, he may turn away from you for now, or procrastinate even further.

Logged
zachira
Ambassador
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Sibling
Posts: 3236


« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2019, 10:35:24 AM »

I hope I don't offend you with this suggestion. It could help for you to talk with a therapist. It is perfectly understandable that you feel the way you do. The challenge is to not let those feelings make your son feel more resistant to making the tough decisions only he can make. Also, it is important for the children to not be aware of how upset the adults are, because children often interpret the feelings of an adult as meaning that something is wrong with them.
Logged

livednlearned
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Family other
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 12731



« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2019, 01:36:26 PM »

I can't remember if I already recommended these books so apologies if I'm repeating myself.

They are gold for someone in exactly your situation.

Don't Alienate the Kids by William Eddy
Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak
The Power of Validation for Parents

You don't have a lot of control. You do have a lot of influence.

We have to learn how to wield that influence in effective ways.

These books cover the basic principles, especially the first one by Eddy, about how to have effective influence.

Unfortunately, the ship won't turn around easily and definitely not quickly.

Becoming an emotional leader is not intuitive and the skills must be learned and practiced. As a grandparent, you have a powerful role to play because you have some objective distance. Gather information and be ready for your son when he is receptive and in the meantime, model for him how to raise an emotionally resilient child when one parent has BPD.

The skills really do work. And this is a supportive and attentive community for people walking this path.

You aren't alone 

Logged

Breathe.
Danali60

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Family other
Posts: 33


« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2019, 07:42:36 PM »

Thanks everyone.  I've got some anger management to work out I guess.  This ex-girlfriend has been a thorn in our side for the last 5 years and crap is still going ... I'm tired, very tired.  We have known about the cheating, put up with knowing about it and all the other horrible things and ways about her and have kept out mouth shut for his sake and tried to act like we were having a good time when family events occur.

This was exhausting to do - and now we don't have to anymore.  At this point my oldest son and I are just done.  We are being emotionally, psychologically and even physically affected by the poison that has seeped into our lives and is still seeping in. 

Because we express ourselves loudly and show our anger, I think it may be time for us to bow out gracefully and allow him to do things on his own from this point forward.  Perhaps he and his dad can discuss things between the two of them - they have the same personality.

Thanks guys for all of your help.  Just feeling really frustrated and exhausted right now. 
Logged
Harri
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 5981



« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2019, 12:59:29 AM »

Staff only

This thread has reached the post limit and has been locked.  Please feel free to start a new discussion.  Thank you.
Logged

  "What is to give light must endure burning." ~Viktor Frankl
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!