Manipulation of Kids to Denigrate Me

[justaboutdone]

I haven't posted in awhile and this thread is similar to my last several.  My son told my ex last weekend that he had done something that he thought would get him in a lot of trouble at my house.  My ex had my son in tears and afraid of me after learning of this and the night before school(I have a voicemail of my son in tears and whimpering that he was so sorry what he had done).  His expectation of how I would react wasn't realistic at all but she has 100% control of their feelings towards me(this has created non-stop problems and the reason the kids go to a child therapist every other week to undo the damage she repeatedly creates).  So on Monday morning, after the kids spent all weekend with my BPDex, my son told his teacher that he was afraid to go home to my house(I have custody and completely unrealistic for him to think that).  Anyhow, the teacher sent him to the school counselor and principal. An investigation was started and his sibling brought into the office also for an interview.  The school didn't think the kids were in danger and allowed them to come home to me.  After school that day, my son tried to spend $800 on the Xbox store and he said the reason he did this was because he was so mad at me now.  It was only after asking questions did I realize what he told the teachers at school.  But now I feel that my reputation with the teacher and especially the school is significantly tarnished.  Any thoughts on here?

[GaGrl]

My thought is that this incident warrants a meeting with the child's therapist and with the school counselor -- not to defend yourself and JADE but to ask questions on how best to support your son.I

What is your intuition telling you?

Are you in therapy to help you through these situations?

[justaboutdone]

My thought is that this incident warrants a meeting with the child's therapist and with the school counselor -- not to defend yourself and JADE but to ask questions on how best to support your son.I

What is your intuition telling you?

Are you in therapy to help you through these situations?

Thank you very much for the reply.  The kids have already seen the child therapist and I have an appointment with the school.  I get the opinion the school just wants to avoid the sticky situation and I have already seen the school more interested to hear from mom than me on some other things in the school.  It's not a huge school.  I have a therapist and the child therapist is also helpful because they know exactly who is behind stuff like this.  The kids have  been going to a child therapist for a long time every other week and she constantly has to bail me out in front of the kids because they are so far sucked into mom's thinking. I have met Childress and have read A LOT of books but nobody is cracking the code on permanently undoing the psychological warfare my ex is using on my kids.  I would would love to hear some things that people use to recage the kids thinking.  Again, I know what Childress says and Amy Baker say but none of those techniques are working.

[AnuDay]

I can totally relate. It's so frustrating every few days having to recalibrate your kids.  Unfortunately it is part of the territory. I haven't found an easy solution and this is the only thing that makes me want to quit co-parenting.
You can try fighting fire with fire.  You have go be careful doing it because you are already "the bad guy". But maybe you can demonstrate how you are the good guy and she is the bad guy. 
Alternatively you can try going overboard and excessively showering your kids with gifts, treats, and fun activities.
Do they have more fun at the moms or at your house?  How old are your children? 

[Sluggo]

Just about done,

So sorry you have gone through this.  I am on this journey with you and has improved with all but the oldest (I have 7 kids with exBPD spouse)

You may have already listened to Ryan Thomas. But I have gotten some solace and Concepts from watching his videos. He speaks from the alienated childs view and what he was feeling to help alienated parents.   

https://youtu.be/jzV1cRw7_MQ

How are you coping through all this now?

[justaboutdone]

I can totally relate. It's so frustrating every few days having to recalibrate your kids.  Unfortunately it is part of the territory. I haven't found an easy solution and this is the only thing that makes me want to quit co-parenting.
You can try fighting fire with fire.  You have go be careful doing it because you are already "the bad guy". But maybe you can demonstrate how you are the good guy and she is the bad guy. 
Alternatively you can try going overboard and excessively showering your kids with gifts, treats, and fun activities.
Do they have more fun at the moms or at your house?  How old are your children? 

I'm not certain that gaining custody fixes anything.  She repeatedly influences the kid's opinion that it's hard to make any decisions.  I have so many examples of that happening over and over in the most mundane situations.  My ex made the statement to me before I had custody and we were under shared parenting that I was treating her like a babysitter with the kids.  It wasn't true at all but I believe that is how she felt.  But now she goes out of her way to influence the kids to believe that they are in charge of everything and all their decisions take priority over the parents.   This alone creates conflict with the kids but but it also gives my ex total control over the kids decisions and opinions.

I treat the kids to fun activities and treats but only to a reasonable amount.  

[worriedStepmom]

Have you asked the kids' therapists if it would be better for you to have more custody/mom have less?

If she's alienating to this level, you probably have grounds to take her back to court to try to reduce her time with them...which means less time for her to influence them.

[justaboutdone]

Have you asked the kids' therapists if it would be better for you to have more custody/mom have less?

If she's alienating to this level, you probably have grounds to take her back to court to try to reduce her time with them...which means less time for her to influence them.

I met with two lawyers recently, the kids therapist, and my therapist.  They are all recommending that I reduce her parenting time. My only thought is that I don't want to go back to court AGAIN and I'm a Dad and the judge is very hesitant to give Dads any more than 50% parenting time. The only reason I got more than 50% is because my Ex's behavior was so blatantly poor before. Now she just hides it incredibly well while still accomplishing her objective of denigrating me. Sorry but I see it everywhere across the board in daily activities that Dad needs to have a significantly higher burden of proof to make.

[worriedStepmom]

I get it.  This is exhausting.

But if two different lawyers AND the therapists all agree that this environment is harmful for the children, then it sounds like you have a pretty good chance at getting more parenting time.

[zachira]

You are talking about "parent alienation" something there is considerable more awareness about than in the past.Do google "parent alienation" and learn everything you can about this subject. You are doing the right things by being transparent and showing that you want to do what is best for your children. Having your children in therapy is perfect because it gives the children a safe place to talk about how they are affected by one parent's effort to alienate them from the other parent.  

[ForeverDad]

A couple years after my Final Decree (Shared Parenting, equal time with a 2-2-3 schedule and settlement that I was residential parent for school purposes) I returned seeking custody and majority time.  That required a Change of Circumstances approach first.  After 17 months, I got custody ("Legal Guardian") but the GAL didn't want to change the schedule, hoping mother would behave better with keeping child support option.  Yeah, you can guess how well that hope worked out.

My last time in court I was trying to get majority time.  I had tried once before but the GAL recommended (and we parents had to agree) that yes I could get custody but no I couldn't get majority time or else mother couldn't get her child support.  So there I was, back in court playing recordings of the ex's phone demands and games regarding exchanges.  The decision later even commented, "In the tapes Mother is often yelling so loudly that it is difficult to endure listening to her."  The court decision noted, six times, that I was being disparaged, one quote is "continued disparagement of Father to the child"  Did I get majority time for that?  No.  "However, after considerable thought, this magistrate is willing to give Mother one more try... .Mother shall have {continued equal} summer parenting time."

However, that was not all.  Teachers (reluctantly) testified that she had caused a scene at a Fifth Grade overnight field trip while removing him that first evening because her parenting time had started.  I also had a school report that listed me with a few tardies, while she had about 20 tardies.  I have since come to realize that impacting school is a big No-No for parents, it has an out-sized weight in family court.  So I did get majority time but only during the school year.

While I'm not trying to minimize all the other misbehaviors of the ex... .how school is impacted gets a lot of attention, in my case seemingly more attention than everything else.

[justaboutdone]

You are talking about "parent alienation" something there is considerable more awareness about than in the past.Do google "parent alienation" and learn everything you can about this subject. You are doing the right things by being transparent and showing that you want to do what is best for your children. Having your children in therapy is perfect because it gives the children a safe place to talk about how they are affected by one parent's effort to alienate them from the other parent.  

Thank you and I appreciate the comments. I have since learned a lot about it and how they do it. Also read several books about it. The GAL listed Parental Alienation in her report also and said it was only the second time in her career that she had ever mentioned it in one of her reports.

[justaboutdone]

A couple years after my Final Decree (Shared Parenting, equal time with a 2-2-3 schedule and settlement that I was residential parent for school purposes) I returned seeking custody and majority time.  That required a Change of Circumstances approach first.  After 17 months, I got custody ("Legal Guardian") but the GAL didn't want to change the schedule, hoping mother would behave better with keeping child support option.  Yeah, you can guess how well that hope worked out.

Awesome post and thank you for validating my concerns about going back to court. When we went back the second time to court, the judge made the comment that "I thought mom was just still mad from the divorce?". The mental health experts had  to make it very clear that her behavior was not going away.  I don't want to start a second post in this post but it is very unfortunate that the court is so swayed even when it is ruining the kids. Kids who will grow up in our society and then become more of a menace to the generation that they raise. We can be proactive and stop sexual assualt and domestic violence but very little to nothing is done about a mentally unhealthy parent who is doing more damage to a child than a child who witnesses domestic violence. End of Rant. Sorry.

[AnuDay]

Awesome post and thank you for validating my concerns about going back to court. When we went back the second time to court, the judge made the comment that "I thought mom was just still mad from the divorce?". The mental health experts had  to make it very clear that her behavior was not going away.  I don't want to start a second post in this post but it is very unfortunate that the court is so swayed even when it is ruining the kids. Kids who will grow up in our society and then become more of a menace to the generation that they raise. We can be proactive and stop sexual assualt and domestic violence but very little to nothing is done about a mentally unhealthy parent who is doing more damage to a child than a child who witnesses domestic violence. End of Rant. Sorry.

I feel the same way.  The courts and society in general is failing this generation of children.  It's no mystery why American society is the way that it is.  You go into a lot of these parents homes and see how much quality time is actually spent with the children and it's no longer a mystery.  Seems to keep getting worse and worse.

[livednlearned]

What kind of feedback did you receive from Dr Childress? Anything helpful?

It sounds like you are not convinced going back to court will help. Compared to some posts on this board, you do seem to have meaningful support from third-party professionals. However, I can understand your reluctance to head back to court.

For me, the choice to go back to court was prompted by a realization that the alienation maneuvers were going to continue ad nauseum and the only way to get rid of the rot was to rip things out at the root.

I spent an average of one day a month in court for four years thanks to ex's zeal to stay negatively engaged through court orders that amounted to nonsense. My judge slapped a gatekeeping order on ex and that did nothing to stop the flow of BPD fueled hate. It turns out you can take anyone to court for anything in this country and not even a judge-ordered gatekeeping order can stop a motivated mentally ill person from having his day in court.

The upside of all that is I went numb from the exposure and started to treat court like an unpleasant job that had to get done. I did see signs of support from the judge and that gave me some forward momentum but even so I still cannot get over how many bites of the apple ex was given as he was slow walked to no custody. It cost me money I will never recover and made me cynical to my core about our justice system. Still, I won and that is no small consolation.

It's depressing just to think about, although I do believe my son would've remained suicidal if he was forced to spend time in a toxic alienating environment. I'm the only person in his life who cared about his true self, his true identity and after years of dealing with this, he is making a little progress though will probably always feel wounded to some extent.