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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: Effects of BPD parent on your child  (Read 431 times)
StillHopeful73
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« on: May 07, 2019, 03:00:31 PM »

Hi everyone. Does anyone ever just get overwhelmed at times worrying about the effects that your BPD ex has on your child or children? I realize I can't control what happens when our daughter is with my BPD ex, but that doesn't mean I don't get drained worrying about it at times.

I realize that as the non-BPD parent I have to step it up and make sure our daughter gets any help/support that she needs. I had mentioned prior that she has been showing signs of anxiety for some time. After being on a wait list for a child therapist for awhile, I finally was able to find one (and one that specializes in BPD nonetheless). We have had 3 sessions where I have met alone with the therapist. These sessions were incredibly insightful and included such info as the stages of attachment and how our daughter might show issues with these stages when having a BPD parent, as well as how play therapy works. It made a lot of sense. My daughter had her first session of play therapy with the therapist last week and as the first session it was basically complete silence for 60 minutes as our daughter played with various toys. But I guess it will take time to develop trust between the therapist and her.

The anxiety symptoms that I've noticed the past 2 years have been: crying when she has to go with her dad or thinking about going with her dad (the crying has decreased but does still happen occasionally), she always expresses disappointment to me about having to go with her dad (ie "Aw, I don't want to with daddy."), talking about her tummy hurting and wanting an icepack (then taking the icepack to school), sleeping with the icepack, wanting to go to bed early (this is new but started a few weeks ago), not wanting to take anything of value to her dads for fear it will get lost or broken, emotional outbursts for "small" concerns (this one has been better for awhile), quiet/withdrawn at times (teacher noticed this one and expressed her concern), she used to wet the bed but this stopped when the sleepovers on his weekends ceased for a few months (and hasn't come back), not wanting to play with her neighbor friends for a couple of weeks (she was always excited to go outside and play with them, lately she has been better), wanting to go to bed earlier by about 45 min-1 hour nightly.

Things have been quiet lately with my BPD ex and that part has been a dream. I know it is likely short-lived but I'm enjoying it while it lasts. But my daughter continues to show the anxiety and I realize that it will likely continue. There were things the therapist pointed out that I hadn't really thought about before. After our daughter has been dropped off after her weekend with her dad, she is exhausted. I had always assumed it was because he let her stay up late or that they just did a lot to keep them busy, and it may be in part due to that, also. But the therapist said that it is likely quite tiring for her to constantly be on and making sure she says things that don't make him upset, disappointed or angry.

I have also noticed a relatively new behavior for her where for example she will ask "Which color should I pick?" or "Which toy should I play with?" and when I say "You pick which one you would like." she comes back to me again and says "No. you." We could go back and forth for hours  but I usually tell her which one is my preference and then she says "Me too." and picks that one.

When I spoke to the therapist about how my BPD ex felt I was an unfit parent by not encouraging our daughter to call him, she said that their relationship isn't my responsibility and that I should let him reach out. That if she doesn't want to call him that I shouldn't push any further. That makes me nervous of course because should we end up back in court eventually (and I'm certain we will), I don't want to look like I'm not encouraging their relationship. It's so tough to know at times what the right thing to do is especially since I've read many horror stories on here about how judges can be. Making our daughter feel secure and not pressured is the right thing to do obviously but if we went back to court and his time with her increased because the judge felt I wasn't making an effort, well then that definitely isn't better for her. I just keep documenting that I will ask her to call him and if she doesn't want to, I don't make her. Not that I could prove that really if it came down to it.

I try to put it all in perspective and realize that one of the most important things is having her realize that she does have a voice and to get her to trust her own intuition because that will give her better coping skills in the future on dealing with her dad. As she gets older I also feel better as she will soon be able to talk about how things affect her. It sure seems like a long road ahead at times though. Since she doesn't verbalize her thoughts/feelings yet, I often wonder internally the effects that her dad has on her and what is going on in that brain of hers. It's tough seeing her withdraw or at other times being emotional, but the therapist did say that it is a good thing that she is emotional. That if there weren't tears and she bottled it up inside that it would be worse. And the other thing the therapist has pointed out is the importance of validation when it comes to what she is feeling. So I have been making a point of doing that for some time.

Anyways, I'll keep posting any tidbits that the therapist provides both for my daughter and/or dealing with my BPD ex. The one promising thing she did say is that with proper support our daughter can still grow up emotionally healthy. By teaching me different things to watch for, she says that I can try to catch things early before they develop into something bigger, so that makes me feel a bit better.
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worriedStepmom
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« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2019, 05:48:52 PM »

It seems like you lucked out with a good therapist.  I hope it doesn't take long for your daughter to feel comfortable and open up to her.

Does your ex ever initiate the phone calls?  If not, well, that's his problem if he doesn't get to talk to her.  As long as you aren't actively blocking him from speaking with her, you should be fine.   I will caution you that this doesn't get better, either.  My stepdaughter is 11, and her uBPDmom is CONVINCED that we are block SD from speaking with her.   SD has a phone, and mom is always pestering her to call when SD is here...and SD generally chooses not to.  It's easier for uBPDmom to blame us (for anything and everything) rather than admit that SD might not want to talk to her, for whatever reason.

SD's therapist has worked a great deal with her on boundaries.  One of SD's is that she only calls mom when she wants to do so.  We have to respect her boundary and not push her...just as you are respecting your daughter's voice by not pushing her to call if she says no. 

For SD, so far, the most work has gone into strong boundaries and emotional regulation (because she certainly isn't learning that from watching her mom).  It's tough when they are little, but you are doing the right thing in getting her help now.
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StillHopeful73
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« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2019, 11:40:22 AM »

Thank you for your insight and experience, worriedStepmom. Yes, I do think I lucked out with this therapist.

My ex did initiate the calls for quite awhile and would call most nights that he wasn't with her. He would even call multiple times some evenings if she didn't answer. It was at that time that he said that he didn't feel I was being a good parent by not having her call him nightly "like his colleagues' kids do." So for a period of time I was asking her to call him every 2nd evening between his time with her. At that point she was ok with it but lately she just doesn't want to call him. So I'm not pushing it.

The past week or so though he has just stopped calling altogether (except for one evening). He tends to go through phases so I'm not really surprised. When he's feeling low or dating someone I find he tends to disappear for periods of time.

But I'm by no means blocking him from speaking with her. I guess I'm just on hyper-paranoid mode as I know how manipulating he can be and how he will make it sound to anyone who will listen. I honestly don't care about what most people think that he speaks to except when it comes to the idea of going back to court.

Yes! Boundaries will be huge for her. And I'm trying to learn how to establish (and enforce) my own set of boundaries as this isn't one of my strong points. And you're right, by not having her call him then I'm respecting her boundary and voice on that. I have to stop letting him get into my head. So many years later, I'm aware of what he's about and yet I still allow him get into my noggin at times.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2019, 08:32:14 AM »

Is there anything specific in the court order about nightly calls?

If not, then it might be a big non-issue for a judge if it comes to that.

I spent a lot of time in family court over a four year period, on average once a month. The issue with kids being in constant contact with a parent through phones was the most common issue that came up. I'm pretty sure judges hate cell phones...

If you are ever asked about it, I recommend having your attorney propose a solution that puts responsibility on dad where possible. My attorney proposed that I would upload photos to a shared site and ex could view them whenever he was missing our son. She then suggested that ex create the shared site and send me the log-in details. The judge felt that was a reasonable request.

The shared site never happened. The point was more about fanning a conflict in which he could assign blame to me than it was to actually stay connected to S10. When a reasonable solution was proposed that put responsibility on ex, he moved on to something else.

Also, if you are concerned about a he-said, she-said, you might want to document the calls, when they happen, how your daughter responds. Sometimes it can help to quantify things, "In May, ex called 46 times and D spoke to him 62 percent of the time. In June, it was 59 percent." And describe how you have attempted to support their relationship. "I spoke to D's therapist about phone contact with dad and she noted age of child and suggested that talking on the phone may improve over time and in the meantime D can draw pictures for her dad as a way to stay connected."

If your daughter's reluctance to see her dad increases, you can address that. "We are working with D's T to help foster a better relationship with dad. Based on advice of T, we propose parenting classes to help create an environment that is supportive of D's age and interests so that she is less anxious in his care."

In my experience, judges love reasonable solutions. If you can design them to put responsibility on dad, and he doesn't follow through on a solution to a problem he is putting before the court, then it tells the judge that something is off. Why complain about a problem and then not participate in the reasonable solution?

Wouldn't we all love to know the answer to that 
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StillHopeful73
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« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2019, 12:01:31 AM »

Thank you lived and learned for your advice. I will definitely use a few of your suggestions. Especially involving talk of the therapist. I’ll work on reasonable solutions. And I can’t possibly imagine averaging once a month in court! At least my ex is terrible with money. Otherwise we would be there often too. No there is nothing in the order that talks about calls. I had proposed some time ago a couple of times that he pick a fixed night for their calls but he decided not to go that route of course. But I document everything...nights they talk, nights I have asked her to call and she doesn’t want to. I’ve taken pics of her phone to prove when they have spoken etc. I print his emails.

Well the quiet was short-lived...I should have known. Today caught me off guard though. My BPD ex failed to send me an email by 7am (per the boundary I’ve implemented)  that he was seeing our daughter tonight. I assumed he was working. So he sent one around 820 saying he had told our daughter he was picking her up tonight. I replied saying I checked my inbox and my junk at 7 and there was nothing in there so he wouldn’t be able to see her because she wasn’t aware. And that she hadn’t mentioned anything to me.  So I didn’t hear anything and went to training for work. I checked my emails on break in the aft and all hell broke loose. He ranted with about 5 or 6 emails stating he had sent an email Tuesday and was picking her up anyway, that the anxiety that I claim to see is inaccurate, he’s taking me to court, he’s going after the school but now they see through me, that he wasn’t going to drop her off for mother’s day anymore as it was his weekend (it’s in the court order). That he worries about my emotional state. Then, he goes onto say that he brought a case worker to the school recently to meet with the principal and aftercare people and none of them backed my claims about our daughter’s anxiety. I spoke with my daughter’s teacher a bit ago for a 1/2 hour about how she had been acting withdrawn the past while. So now I’m paranoid.

So I went to pick up my daughter from my mother’s home late aft as she had been off sick today and spent the day with nana. Turns out my ex had seen my mom at the coffee shop with our daughter this afternoon so went over to visit with them at her house and was just leaving when I went to pick her up (they hadn’t spoken in weeks as my ex flipped out on my mom a month and a bit ago when she told him to watch how he spoke with me). Well all of a sudden in the driveway he’s Mr. Nice. I don’t want to fight he says. A lot of this is on me and my abandonment issues he says. Did I know he and his sister had witnessed his mother being raped while very young. That he loves me and my family and appreciates everything I’ve done. Says he shouldn’t have gone off like that but he felt attacked. Then he says a bit how he doesn’t think the anxiety is as big as I think it is. Says she’s likely just sensing the tension between he and I. Then he says there was a police out front of my home earlier that day and when he asked what they were doing they said paperwork for an accident. All of this was making me spin. Did he call the cops? Why was he at my home to begin with?  Is he setting me up for something? What is this nice act all about?

I’m freaking tired dealing with this PLEASE READ. We talked outside for about 45 min and he wasn’t aggressive at all. Gave me a number of compliments. Said we need to work together and that he’s not good texting or emailing and that we should meet for coffee periodically. Also said that maybe our daughter’s anxiety was more the result of the let down after Christmas (like he gets) or her ventolin. I honestly feel like I’m going crazy dealing with him at times. And I don’t trust him as far as I can throw him. I was polite and non-combative. Explained some of the therapist’s sessions and her insight (leaving out the BPD part of course). I talked about the importance of validating her feelings to which he replied “I haven’t been doing that so thank you.” I had brought up again about using a parenting site so we wouldn’t have to worry about emails getting lost. Of course he didn’t take me up on it.

Sorry for the long vent. My brain is spinning and I can’t sleep. I had been enjoying the quiet so much that I let my guard down. Lesson learned.
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worriedStepmom
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« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2019, 07:56:46 AM »

It's jarring when the cycle spins back to beginning and there's another outburst.

Over time, you will have developed enough boundaries that it will be easier to deal with the outbursts, because you'll have already set out plans on what to do in case of X, Y, or Z.

You held to a boundary of "you didn't let ME know, so you don't get her tonight"...but he went around you by visiting your daughter at your mother's.  I will assume that's why he calmed down.  He felt like he "won" because he got to see her.

Now you have to decide what needs to happen in situations like this next time.  Do you let your mother (or another caregiver) decide whether or not to invite him in to hang out with D?  Do you give them instructions that he is not to be there with your daughter unless you've given prior permission?  (Obviously, it is their choice if that socialize with him without your daughter present.)  Whatever you decide, make it very clear to your family members what your expectations of them are.

My H's exW is always trying to get him to talk to her instead of text/email.  She doesn't like the documentation, and she doesn't like it that he doesn't respond to her rants (she doesn't feel heard), and she doesn't like it that with texting there's no one to soothe her.  There are some communication strategies H could use that might help, but he chooses not to.  This is likely going to be an ongoing battle, so just stay strong on that point.

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« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2019, 08:53:05 AM »

I try to put it all in perspective and realize that one of the most important things is having her realize that she does have a voice and to get her to trust her own intuition because that will give her better coping skills in the future on dealing with her dad. As she gets older I also feel better as she will soon be able to talk about how things affect her. It sure seems like a long road ahead at times though. Since she doesn't verbalize her thoughts/feelings yet, I often wonder internally the effects that her dad has on her and what is going on in that brain of hers. It's tough seeing her withdraw or at other times being emotional, but the therapist did say that it is a good thing that she is emotional. That if there weren't tears and she bottled it up inside that it would be worse.

I have realized the same thing.  Luckily (?), my kids are older: 10 and 14.  But it's still really difficult for them.  It happened about a month ago when I realized that I couldn't always be there to protect them and had no control on visits (paperwork is far from signed due to having to negotiate with a terrorist, but I've filed in court and case conference is this summer.  And child aid society say that everything is fine even though "mom" was hospitalized a bunch of times and told the kids she would abandon them and go kill herself).  I then decided to empower them with the help from the kids psychologist.  They now realize that they go visit mom to have fun and not to please her.  She kept pressuring the kids for longer visits, more frequent visits but my oldest one is now setting his foot down and says no.  He gets to decide, and now recognized what manipulation is.  He still makes many mistakes but he is getting better at navigating through this mess.  My youngest one once told her "we're here to have fun not to discuss things like this" (she wanted to talk about divorce stuff) and he then told me "that didn't go over really well with her" but he did it.

The kids have a really difficult time with the relapses.  All was good with the visits (2 x 4 hours evenings, and a week-end afternoon) but then there was a serious relapse when she received the divorce paperwork where I ask for custody.  She ranted to my oldest one about "how can you listen to your dad? you're morphing into him! I raised you better! I took care of you! your dad is a liar and doesn't give me money!" followed by a bunch of text messages "stop being a baby and answer the phone" or "you're turning into a bully!", "Go live with your dad and email me if you ever want to see me again. I hope you'll be happy" and other mean things.  He was a wreck.  She also sent similar messages to my youngest one who cried as soon as he saw the message.  It reminded him of the Christmas eve events where she told them that she would leave them and kill herself..  or the January episode where she wrote them goodbye letters and storm off with my car to go kill herself.. 

Yet when she is "good" they have a fun time with her.  But over time they are definitely distancing themselves from her and that's "all because of me" and not her behavior because she is the perfect mother.  What a messed up illness.   As my oldest one said: "why did she have to ruin it all? the short visits were perfect". As I told him: the visits are never enough.  She always wants more.   

Definitely keep posting tips.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2019, 01:24:21 PM »

No there is nothing in the order that talks about calls.

That's good in terms of where you are right now, then!

If you end up in front of a judge, you can put forth the times you proposed or recommended something, and how your ex prefers to call whenever he wants to call, which isn't reasonable for anyone. Then propose in court your reasonable solution: invite ex to pick a regular night and time to call. Put the responsibility on him to take initiative. And have some parameters, like, "If I don't receive a call or text between 7:00pm and 7:05pm to let D know if there will be a call, we will assume something came up and won't be checking for messages once D begins her bedtime routine."

You got this!

So he sent one around 820 saying he had told our daughter he was picking her up tonight.

Honestly, this one is a nail biter for most of us.

I had to learn to not litigate the boundary -- no explaining or defending or justifying or whatnot. The boundary or limit had to speak for itself.

Meaning, If there was nothing there by 7am then no go. No need to engage him, which is what he wants. He feels erased and that is painful beyond words and I wouldn't wish that pain on my worst enemy. At the same time, you have limits. Structure is good for kids and good for you and quite honestly, it's good for your ex even if he resents it every step of the way.

Next time he misses the 7am limit, how do you feel about not responding? That's the nail biter part. When you don't respond you are left wondering what he will do to roll over your limit.

However, in the situation you describe, he rolled over it anyway, even when you responded. So that was nice of him to tell you how much he doesn't care what you do  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

I found that setting limits was never comfortable or convenient or easy. Sometimes setting the limit was only a hair less intense than letting ex have his way. And in the beginning of learning to set limits that often meant doing things that cost me both time and money. I like to think it paid off in the long run.

About your mom (a loophole) if she cannot hold to your limit, and your limit is not negotiable, then you have the hard decision of deciding whether she must earn back the privilege of being part of this new normal you are creating. I don't mean in a drastic way where she isn't able to see D, only that her aftercare help is a weak link in the fence. Or, you could tell her this is an important span of time where she has to show she's with you. Things may get less strict later on when the limit is in place and he is respecting it, but for now there is no give. Mom can decide whether she can participate or not. There are fortunately lots of ways to structure limits, altho it can take some effort to figure out how to close the loopholes. This is just one suggestion.

It's worth it though. Eventually I found I liked having a limit that spoke for itself. When they are well constructed they can reduce a lot of stress. Kind of like a 20 foot concrete wall versus a 4 foot high chain link fence.

Also, no need to worry about whether he agrees with D's anxiety, imo. It's not uncommon for different people to see different things. When my son (then 9) had a psycho educational eval, both parents and four teachers filled out a survey instrument. Ex's input displayed that he was an outlier, that all four teachers and I saw the same things to varying degrees.

My son used to crawl under his desk and bundle himself up in a little ball at school when he was stressed, and ex used to say "He likes playing hide and seek."

Whatevs.

You know the truth and your instincts are good.
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StillHopeful73
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« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2019, 03:09:38 PM »

Thank you, livednlearned. Yes I’m very lucky with the order in place regarding nothing about calls. And proposing the reasonable solution whenever we do go back to court is a great idea.

I do continue to struggle with the explanation behind everything. I need to be more mindful about that one.

Some great news though. He is now finally back to a regular work schedule so we won’t have to deal with the morning emails anymore. His night will be Thursday. I’m so happy about that! But I’m well aware that in the future his rants will only end up being about something else he feels I’ve done wrong.

I met with my counselor yesterday. She strongly feels that I need to arrange a drop off and pick up through child services due to the ongoing conflict and his written attacks. She feels so strongly that she says she will call if I don’t feel comfortable. And she said because my ex had assaulted me in the past that it shouldn’t be an issue, in theory. I have mixed feelings about it. I don’t like making my daughter uncomfortable by having an external pick up/drop off but my counselor said I need to do this for myself because his attacks are wearing me down. Part of me just wants to put my big girl pants on and keep pushing through. Although the last couple of attacks have really got to me.

Anyways you’re so right. Setting limits isn’t easy for me but I’m really trying to stand strong. I’m doing it but I question myself too often.

My mom is a huge problem in all of this. She is well aware of my ex’s behaviour and has told him it’s unacceptable but then will continue to invite him over for dinner. I have told her she’s enabling him. It’s like “Oh, well you’ve assaulted my daughter in the past and continue to email attack her but come on in for a nice home cooked meal.” It is seriously messed up. I could never be kind to the the man who verbally and physically assaulted either of my daughters. He’d be lucky if his balls were still intact. But my mom insists it’s because she wants what’s best for her granddaughter. She says she likes knowing that her granddaughter is getting a healthy meal and not at a restaurant. She also has said once she can get him alone she will tell him that if he continues to email attack me that he won’t be welcome in her home. My bf now refuses to go to my parent’s home because he thinks she’s a nut for letting my ex go there. Anyways it causes a great deal of stress. I have told her that as long as she continues to invite my ex over, it will cause a rift between her and I. She has clearly made her choice. I’ve also told her that should we go back to court his lawyer would have a field day with the fact that she opens her doors to him. She doesn’t see it that way and says she would tell the judge what a wonderful parent I am and the issues we have had dealing with my BPd ex.

And you’re right, I need to keep going with my gut. I have no doubt that our daughter has anxiety. None. And though I know she loves her dad I strongly feel she appeases him so that she doesn’t disappoint him or make him feel badly, or illicit negative behaviour. So he won’t necessarily see the same things I see.

Thank you. I honestly don’t know what I’d do without this site!
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ForeverDad
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2019, 01:39:09 AM »

He ranted ... that he wasn’t going to drop her off for mother’s day anymore as it was his weekend (it’s in the court order).

Most states have clear holiday policies — they usually have top priority.  Mother's Day is almost surely on that list, as is Father's Day.  Unless stated otherwise in the specific parenting order, the priority chain is this:

  • holidays
  • vacations (AKA extended time)
  • properly agreed-upon trades (best documented in writing or emails)
  • the order's parenting schedule

That he worries about my emotional state. Then, he goes onto say that he brought a case worker to the school recently to meet with the principal and aftercare people and none of them backed my claims about our daughter’s anxiety. I spoke with my daughter’s teacher a bit ago for a 1/2 hour about how she had been acting withdrawn the past while. So now I’m paranoid.

It's hard to determine what actually happened and what they actually thought.  People with BPD or other acting-out PDs are known to claim their perceptions as facts, so you can't trust what your ex claims.  Also, school is often considered a neutral ground.  (My son was interviewed by CPS at school, so that's clearly their perspective.)  So if your ex was there seeking the child to be quizzed then likely the child wouldn't have felt it was neutral ground.

Schools are typically very reluctant to take sides with parental disputes.  I recall when I was divorcing my spouse over a decade ago.  Our son was in kindergarten in her school district.  His teacher invited me a few times to come in and spend a half day with the class.  She also told me not to tell my then-stbEx since she was not allowed into the classroom, not even at end of day to pick up our son.  School officials said they had nothing to relate to the court for the divorce matter, any past issues had been addressed.  However, once the divorce was final and I obtained residential status for school purposes, within weeks the school gave me a list of incidents she had caused during the entire school year.  I probably wouldn't have ever seen that list if my new status hadn't given them the option to tell me to take my kid to my school district.

PwBPD are known for their erratic and inconsistent moods.  I recall it once being described as a dance.  Draw close and you're pushed away.  Drift away and you're pulled in closer.  It's a cycle.  Another illustration is a roller coaster ride with endless ups and downs.  Ending the marriage does limit the impact of the ups and downs and grants you more control over your boundaries but doesn't eliminate them.
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StillHopeful73
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« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2019, 02:23:03 PM »

Thank you, ForeverDad. You raise a number of good points. And I should know much better by now than to take what he says as truth. He does exactly that, claim his perceptions as truths...constantly.

I spoke with the principal and she did meet with my xBPD and an advocate (although now I'm thinking it might have been a co-worker). She said that the school aftercare worker brought up the fact that our daughter did seem to express a bit more anxiety on his pick-up days. She hadn't mentioned about the conversation that I had with our daughter's teacher about acting withdrawn as she wasn't aware. She said that my name was never mentioned. So there you go.

Though he ignored me trying to make plans about the exchange of our daughter on Mother's Day, he did end up dropping her off early so it did work out in the end. He likely did this as I had mentioned prior how Father's Day falls on my weekend this year...

A roller coaster and dance are exactly what it feels like. I've often felt I'm on a roller coaster when it comes to him.

And thank you mart555 for sharing your experience. I can't imagine your poor kids having to put up with that. I was very fortunate in some ways that our split happened when our daughter was just under a year old so by the time the family court stuff was over she was still very young. She didn't have any of that guilt or conflict about the custody put on her by him. The fact your youngest stood up to her that way is amazing...so sad it has to be that way, but good on him for expressing his voice. He sounds like a strong kid.

I don't know the nature of how their visits are but he doesn't seem to be a rant or raving type yet like your ex (only like that with me ).  He seems to be more of a quiet manipulator when it comes to our daughter. Regardless, even though they seem to have fun and do things she enjoys on their time, she doesn't want to go with him on his weekends and she doesn't want to call him. Guess her gut instinct is strong. Last night, she got her hair done with color on the tips. She's been asking to do this for over a year and I've been putting it off because of her age. Well, my ex got wind of it (through my mom...sigh) and he emailed me asking her to call him so he could see it. When we got home she didn't want to call him and asked that I just send a picture instead. This is a constant with her. She did end up calling him this time though so he was happy.

You're right, it is an extremely messed up illness. And what is so sad is the ultimate effects it has on the kids. And yet the only thing you can do is cross your fingers when they are with the BPD ex, find a good therapist for them (and yourself) and be the best support possible when they are home. But it's so heart breaking at times...they didn't sign up for this...
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mart555
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« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2019, 07:49:50 AM »

I'll chime in again because a lot has happened since my previous post.   This may help a few people grasp the impact BPD can have on kids..  and how much can happen in a week:

On Wednesday she had an "episode"  and argument with my oldest one about why he doesn't want to live with her (she got court filing saying I wanted sole custody) on the phone.. yeah, he did not feel good after because it continued via text messages.  He was polite. She told him he was a baby for not replying to her messages and that he did not want to hear the truth, and that his dad kept manipulating him and he'd be a bully because he was bullied by his dad. 

On Thursday the visit was canceled. She wrote to them saying that "she would think about mother's day visit and tell them on Friday if she agrees to see them"

On Friday: no news!  what a relief!

On Saturday, it begins..   She asked if they had decided if they wanted to see her or now (remember, she's the one who said that she would decide).  Oldest one said yes, they'd visit from 1 to 7.  Later that day he breached her condition  by showing up at the house to drop off non-important stuff on the porch (sleeping bag, kids board games, ...) just to intimidate me.   

But wait, there's more!   Sunday was mother's day...    Yup, you can guess how that went. 

They had a good afternoon with her, gave her little gifts, went to my youngest one's baseball game, played at the park, then it was dinner time.  They invited her to some fast food joint and during dinner she asked him "why don't you want to live with me" to which he replied "I don't feel comfortable talking about this, let's change subject".  She pressured him, he answered, she did not like the answer, started crying in the restaurant, my youngest one said "but I want to live with you half the time" (ie: young kids say what adults want to hear) and then my oldest one was pointed out for the rest of dinner (ie: "You can come to visit, but NOT your older brother because he doesn't want to come").  She dropped them off after at the house (breaching condition again!) and both kids came in the house bawling their eyes out.  My oldest thought he was a monster because he made his mom cry, my youngest was pissed at his brother because he mad his mom sad. 

In addition to the circus above, she had a text message discussion with my son asking him why he wanted short visits, where things went wrong, how could he do this to HER, ...  he answered with facts, and calmly but she liked none of the answers (I was scared when you took my phone away, when you chased me around the house on christmas eve while I was on the phone with 911, when you called me la liar, ...).  She would keep blaming him and at the end of the night told him "I'm removing you from my contacts. You will not hear from me again.  I love you. Goodbye"

Hang on, we're not even close to being done...

Then on Monday I received 60 phone calls and a bunch of text messages from her in 75 minutes while I was at the psychologist with the kids.    Complaints were filed. 

Tuesday she was arrested, spent a night in jail. Judge wasn't impressed from what I heard..

Thursday afternoon, she called the house because kids were supposed to visit that night. They did not pick up.  They were scared.  My youngest one told me that she texted him to schedule the pick up time but he said he was going to a friends house... and she asked him if he wanted to come after or over the week-end.  He told me that he wrote back "week-end" and he felt extremely relieved when she replied "ok" because he felt like he'd have to visit.  This stressed him so much that he had a headache / neck pain / shoulder pain / back pain and is missing school today (that's his way of dealing with stress, in addition to being mean / angry at me)

My oldest one got messages saying "do you want to come tonight? we could go eat out and talk".  Remember, she said 3 days earlier that she was removing him from his contacts?  He did not reply. He's scared of going out to eat with her.  His stress ends up in his bowel, just like me.  He'll go 5 times a day for 20 minutes each, in pain.  When he learned that his brother said "week-end", he told me "what? we're seeing her this week-end?" and the stress came back. 

For mom, the "episode" is over. She did nothing wrong, life goes on. The kids are to blame and they are mean to her because they are still angry even though the episode is over.  She thinks that she is the perfect mom.  And I'm stuck dealing with the emotional damage to the kids.

All of the above happened in a single week.    And it will happen again.  They'll visit her, they may have a few good short visits, but things will turn sour at some point. And I'll have to fix it again.   Rinse and repeat.

I'm hoping that I can minimize permanent damage to the kids.    3 months ago I was still considering 50-50 custody, I was still under her control or something.   I've since truly realized the impact a BPD can have on kids.  Sadly, it will be months before I get an official court order.  And I'll be stuck dealing with this crap for many years to come. 



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MeandThee29
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« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2019, 07:48:41 PM »

Does your ex ever initiate the phone calls?  If not, well, that's his problem if he doesn't get to talk to her.  As long as you aren't actively blocking him from speaking with her, you should be fine.   I will caution you that this doesn't get better, either.  My stepdaughter is 11, and her uBPDmom is CONVINCED that we are block SD from speaking with her.   SD has a phone, and mom is always pestering her to call when SD is here...and SD generally chooses not to.  It's easier for uBPDmom to blame us (for anything and everything) rather than admit that SD might not want to talk to her, for whatever reason.

SD's therapist has worked a great deal with her on boundaries.  One of SD's is that she only calls mom when she wants to do so.  We have to respect her boundary and not push her...just as you are respecting your daughter's voice by not pushing her to call if she says no. 

Yup. I live there. They have their own emails and phone. If they choose not to respond or call, it's assumed that I'm 100% in control of that. Nope. They choose their boundaries that way.
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StillHopeful73
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« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2019, 07:37:16 PM »

Mart555, that sounds like absolute hell for your kids (and you obviously). Thankfully, her actions have all been documented and she was jailed. I would hope that will give you further ammunition for getting sole custody. I can’t possibly imagine any child having to deal with that kind of behaviour 50-50, or otherwise.

It is rather overwhelming when your child or children are still young and you realize there are many more years of dealing with the BPD ex. I’m going through a relatively nasty phase with mine right now that has fluctuated over the past 2 years. But I keep hoping he’ll find his next “victim” girlfriend and then it will go back to being a bit more quiet. But it won’t make me feel any better about when our daughter is with him.

Our daughter had her second session of play therapy on Friday. It was quiet and uneventful but I just hope that her trust will continue to strengthen for the therapist. I assume we will be there for the long haul so there is no rush really.

My ex sent an email today asking to see our daughter for a few hours on the holiday Monday (tomorrow). We have nothing in our court order about holidays other than Christmas. He had mentioned it Thurs night in front of her when he dropped her off and I said I wasn’t certain of our plans yet as I was just trying to get him away from the door. I had hoped he had just forgotten. He has mentioned before how it is unfair that she is with me always on the holiday Mondays and that we don’t split them.  In his usual email format today he said to let him know ASAP . Always ASAP... So here I sit conflicted and it drives me nuts that I am this way. This man has done so much to me and our daughter, the past two years especially. The constant roller coaster of attacks on me or my parenting ...why do I feel badly for him on any level? Why can’t I just easily say “no” without feeling I need to give an explanation? I will just say no but I continue to struggle with feeling badly about it and I wish I knew why. Our daughter doesn’t want to go with him so I shouldn’t feel badly about that. I wish I could just easily brush these feelings off like I feel most people would. It bothers me that I care and I honestly wish at times I could just flick an “I don’t care switch.”
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mart555
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« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2019, 10:14:38 AM »

Mart555, that sounds like absolute hell for your kids (and you obviously). Thankfully, her actions have all been documented and she was jailed. I would hope that will give you further ammunition for getting sole custody. I can’t possibly imagine any child having to deal with that kind of behaviour 50-50, or otherwise. 
<...>
In his usual email format today he said to let him know ASAP . Always ASAP... So here I sit conflicted and it drives me nuts that I am this way. This man has done so much to me and our daughter, the past two years especially. The constant roller coaster of attacks on me or my parenting ...why do I feel badly for him on any level? Why can’t I just easily say “no” without feeling I need to give an explanation? I will just say no but I continue to struggle with feeling badly about it and I wish I knew why. Our daughter doesn’t want to go with him so I shouldn’t feel badly about that. I wish I could just easily brush these feelings off like I feel most people would. It bothers me that I care and I honestly wish at times I could just flick an “I don’t care switch.”

FWIW, I still sometimes feel bad even though she has done lots of damage.  And I still don't know why I feel bad.  Maybe because we're good people?

During the last visit she restrained my youngest one so he couldn't leave early.  And she told them that because of my oldest son who did not tell her about the camera she ended up in jail.  That I abused her emotionally for the last 20 years.  That I raped her. That I wanted her in jail for 5 years.   That night and the next day she would then harass the kids via text messages so they would communicate with her.  I had to block all communications.   

\She is clearly sick.  Yet I still sometimes feel bad.   Really looking forward to all of this being behind. 

I guess what I'm saying is don't feel bad about feeling bad... I'm worse than you! 
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StillHopeful73
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« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2019, 10:30:04 AM »

Thanks mart555. Yes, I think you are right...we are good people and have a lot of empathy. And we understand they are sick , so that empathy kicks in strong. But at the same time we, and more importantly our kids, shouldn't have to be their whipping posts.  It really is such a messed up dynamic. ForeverDad nailed it on the head when he said it is like a dance or roller coaster.
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