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Author Topic: managing "good" times, etc...  (Read 587 times)
stolencrumbs
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« on: May 09, 2019, 09:48:36 AM »

I'm not sure how to put all these thoughts together, but here goes...

The last month or so has been very good for me in a lot of ways. I've become much closer to friends I've made over the past couple of years. I've gone to a concert with a friend. I've been to a cookout with a number of friends. I've played music together a few times with a musician friend. I've gone camping with another friend. I've hung out with all of them collectively a number of times. It's been really nice. They're a weird collection of people, which is the kind of friends I've always had when it's been up to me to make friends. I haven't really had many close friends in the past ten years or so. I've stayed close with old friends, but I haven't really made new ones. I now have. That's been really good for me.

This has all happened while my wife continues the same behavior (less property destruction, but plenty of the rest.) So I think I've gotten much better at "self-care." I've also really accepted that there isn't much I can do when she is completely off the rails. I'm much better at not responding to texts and emails. I'm less good at ignoring phone calls, but still better. And I'm much better at not rushing over to the house late at night. And I've been much happier as a result, though with some guilt at having a good time while she's miserable.

But she also seems to have a weird sixth sense about when I'm really done trying to manage her rages. Or maybe it's just what it looks like when I actually set a boundary. So on Monday, she starts being nice to me. She lets me come over. We have dinner. We walk. We make plans to get some things done at the house and in the yard. And we're actually following through on those plans. I was there Tuesday and Wednesday, and will be there today, with plans in place for the weekend. There haven't been any rages, or really any negativity at all. I'm still not sleeping there, which is fine, because I'm uncertain about all of it. But in general, it's been pretty good.

Except when I think about it, maybe not so good. Her "being nice" is essentially letting me come over and work. I worked at the house for about 4 hours on Monday, 6 hours on Tuesday,  6 hours on Wednesday, and probably the same today, with more work ahead on the weekend. It is clearly important to her that the house and garden look nice. This really does make a difference in her ability to cope. Part of why she is okay now is that the roses are in bloom. (We have 40+ antique rose bushes, all different varieties, many of which we dug up and moved from our old house. The garden really is stunning right now.) And when I quit working at the house, I make dinner, walk with her, talk for a bit (mainly about what things I still need to do), and then take a shower and leave.

So she's not raging, but that seems partly, or largely, because almost 100% of my attention is focused on her and things she needs. And that is not sustainable. I don't mind, and I even enjoy, working in the yard. I'm pretty proud of the garden we've created, and I do love how happy it makes her. But I also want to play the guitar, and hang out with friends, and have a beer or three, and talk about things that interest me, and have some time by myself, and have time to do nothing. And I know that asserting any of that will send us off the rails again. So I just keep doing what she wants me to do. And I feel selfish for wanting to do other things, and for wanting to spend time away from her, and away from doing things that I know matter to her. It feels much less like "self-care" when I'm not dealing with the rage.

I guess what I'm realizing is that I'm not very good at dealing with "good" times. It seems like the flip side of doing everything I can to try to manage her meltdowns. I'm doing everything I can to try to keep her in a good mood. I feel like I'm still letting her emotions control what I do, only at the moment it's her happiness that is controlling things. That is better than the rage, but it is still turning control over to her, and worrying about how anything I do will affect her mood. And that is still exhausting, and it keeps me from doing things that I want to be doing. But I definitely feel more like a jerk when I go do something I want to do while she is in a good mood.

I don't have a conclusion...
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« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2019, 12:12:50 PM »


I'll challenge you to use your "over there" time to do some things with her that YOU enjoy.  Ask her/invite her to do those things and if she doesn't go...YOU still do them. 

I applaud your newfound attitude!   

FF
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« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2019, 02:44:53 PM »

I’ve been mulling over ways to say this politely, but I haven’t come up with a good option. So I’ll just be direct.

She is using you as an employee: a gardener and a cook. And her payment to you is not raging.

You feel guilty about having enjoyment in your life—things that make up a healthy lifestyle: friendships, playing music, camping, concerts, cookouts.

I’m perplexed about what positives she brings to your life, if any.
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« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2019, 05:13:34 PM »

I agree with what Cat said, and I also think that because she stopped getting a desired reaction by raging and having meltdowns, she has now switched tactics.

Your r/s seems to be all about what you can do for her. And you have been conditioned to think this is how it should be, hence the guilt. I get that, I was exactly the same way, and when things were going well for me and not for stbx uBPDh, I felt guilty. I felt like it was cruel to enjoy myself when he was in so much pain. But I had to remember that there are ways for him to not be in so much pain, but he refuses to participate in any solutions that require personal responsibility. So, what he experiences is a result of his choices, and what I experience is a result of mine.

Good job on making friends and spending time with them, even if you do still feel guilty. That is self care, and it feels weird at first, but keep practicing it. You deserve to have a life.
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« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2019, 06:34:20 PM »

There is so much good advice here!  I find myself in much the same situation but my vice is going back home to pay all the bills that he has just piled up on the table for me to take care of.  I do that because we are separated in a community property state and I don’t want our credit to take a beating.  But I do agree that you should do things that make you happy. If taking care of the garden is good for you then enjoy that but don’t let yourself be guilted into doing more! 
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stolencrumbs
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« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2019, 07:49:42 PM »

I’ve been mulling over ways to say this politely, but I haven’t come up with a good option. So I’ll just be direct.

She is using you as an employee: a gardener and a cook. And her payment to you is not raging.

You feel guilty about having enjoyment in your life—things that make up a healthy lifestyle: friendships, playing music, camping, concerts, cookouts.

I’m perplexed about what positives she brings to your life, if any.

At the moment (or for the past few years), she doesn't bring many positives. I can hear her voice in my head. She would (does) say that I just need to work really hard for a couple of weeks and get x, y, and z finished, and then I and we can focus on other things. x, y, and z are things she says she needs in order to be more stable and to cope better with things. Now, I don't really buy that. There have been lots of x's, y's, and z's in our life, and getting those things done doesn't make a difference for very long. There are just new x's, and y's, and z's. I guess I feel like there are some things that really need to be done, and there are things she's been screaming about for a long time, and if I get a chance to do them, I should do them, and at least cross those off a list.

I guess what I struggle with is that what she wants (or what she tells me she wants) is for our life to be like it was 5 or 10 years ago. That's when she believes she was happy. (Note: at the time, she wasn't telling me she was happy.) As I look at that life, it isn't the life I want. Well, I would actually take that life, but that life isn't possible. At that time, I only taught classes, and I taught them all on Tuesdays and Thursdays. I had office hours on Tuesday and Thursday. I could do everything else from home except for the occasional meeting I had to go to. So I only had to go to work two days a week. I did all the cooking, shopping, cleaning, yard work, etc. while she was at work. But I also had time to do things I wanted to do, and still get all the other stuff done. I now work every day, and have two other part time jobs I work. It just isn't possible for me to do everything like I used to, and it sure isn't possible to do all of that and still have time for anything else I want to do. So that life isn't possible, and in the life we have, I'm not going to give up everything else in order to do everything she wants. We have had conversations about this. Yet she keeps acting like I can and should just do everything, and then if there happens to be any time left over, maybe I can do something I want to do.

So, I don't know. I guess I hold out hope for some future life, though it is increasingly hard to have any kind of vision of what that life looks like.

And yeah, I definitely sometimes feel like I am being used. I wonder if my wife won the lottery and she could buy a house she wants, hire a gardener, a maid, a chef, a carpenter, a handyman, etc., would she even want me around? It's not obvious to me that she would. And that sucks.



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« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2019, 08:45:42 PM »

  and there are things she's been screaming about for a long time, and if I get a chance to do them, I should do them, and at least cross those off a list.

So...do you understand how this thought process is controlling your life?

Do you understand how you reacting to her screaming for a long time is training her to do more of that?

Uggg..please sit for a while with your situation.



FF
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stolencrumbs
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« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2019, 08:24:58 AM »

So...do you understand how this thought process is controlling your life?

Do you understand how you reacting to her screaming for a long time is training her to do more of that?

Uggg..please sit for a while with your situation.



FF

No, I do not understand either of those things. 

I am not reacting to her screaming about them. I am reacting to her not screaming about them. If I had some policy of not ever doing anything my wife has screamed at me about for a long time, I would...well, I have no idea what could possibly get done in any area of our life, ever. There are things that need to be done, and I'm going to do them as long as I can be there and not be raged at. I would like to do these things at a less frantic pace. I struggle with that, but I don't see the problem with doing these things.
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« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2019, 10:21:48 AM »

I think there's a bit of a fine line here. By the sounds of things you are doing the things you know need doing (albeit this could be her definition of need not actual need) in a time when she's not screaming at you... seeing it almost like a reward of "You are not screaming at me anymore, I am happy to do the things you have communicated to me you would like". I think what FF is suggesting is that maybe your W see's her screaming as being effective as you are now doing the things that she's historically been screaming about. There's a risk that she may not associate her not screaming and your action together and instead believes that screaming results in eventual action... that narrative would be bad.

I like pain, I have to say that I think I'm a bit of a sycophant when it comes to taking the hard road rather than the easy road. I can see how other members believe that her screaming is being rewarded and gave an internal "here, here" (UK Houses of Parliament style) when I read Cat's post. I wonder whether or not now is the time to be brave and ROAR in towards the screams, slowly and in a controlled manner. Move back in... she screams... you lean into the blast and passively soak it up... she stops screaming... you make your next move forwards... repeat... repeat... repeat... Do normal things that normal people do and avoid being impacted by the screams. I have visions of a legion of centurions advancing, stopping and putting up their shield defences... advancing... putting up their defences until the storm passes... Pick things around the house that aren't things she has screamed to do.

I just bought my D10 a desk for her room. I have been apprehensive of buying the desk as it conflicted with my W's desire to get a divorce and the inevitable need to downsize. D10 has been asking for a desk for years. You wouldn't believe the courage I needed to do something so simplistic and somewhat defiant and conflicting to "her desire to get a divorce". I'm pushing forward with MY FAMILIES NEED to move forwards. My W didn't scream (I didn't think she would in all honesty), it felt odd as it felt like I was going against her narrative. I intend to take more steps forward... I've not done some of the other tasks she has made dramatic gestures towards, her whims can wait.

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« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2019, 06:51:56 PM »


Is Enabler suggesting that Stoblencrumbs take back control of his life...and let the wife react? 

FF
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stolencrumbs
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« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2019, 08:44:27 PM »

Is Enabler suggesting that Stoblencrumbs take back control of his life...and let the wife react? 

FF

No, his suggestion is much cooler. It involves centurions and shields and advances and stuff. 
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« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2019, 06:49:41 AM »

So I just keep doing what she wants me to do.

It seems like the flip side of doing everything I can to try to manage her meltdowns. I'm doing everything I can to try to keep her in a good mood. I feel like I'm still letting her emotions control what I do, only at the moment it's her happiness that is controlling things.

Instead of reacting to her bad mood and rage, you find yourself reacting to her better mood.    What I see is a problem with balancing the reacting to her mood with acting in your interests.    Doesn't matter if her mood is good or poor, how much reacting should be done to it?    How much and when do you act for your interests and go for a beer with friends.

Obviously it won't be possible to balance reacting to her and acting for you into a perfect 50/50 split.    There has to be a balance.    Right now it looks very much like your reacting to her over rides you acting for you, you interests and your self care.   

I am going to join others here who have suggested you Act in ways that better your own self interest, however you define your own interests.    and continue to lessen or dial down how much you React to your wife's mood.
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« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2019, 07:20:31 AM »

I've not much to add here of use  but being new to this site and like many others have wandered in the wilderness for at least 3 years slowly loosing my sense of self , normalising the situation of walking on eggshells and feeling guilty and becoming increasingly depressed, I am just astounded how much all this is also about me. I guess just knowing I am not alone and not going mad is  comfort whilst I try to rebuild the ruins of my life. 
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« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2019, 07:26:04 AM »


I am not reacting to her screaming about them. I am reacting to her not screaming about them.



Read my quote...I simply suggested it was about screaming.  I didn't suggest you did it because of screaming being present or not present.

Then read your quote above...it's about screaming..or lack of.


It's about screaming

This is one of those "under the surface" things that really matters.

Is doing gardening work good or bad?  No.it's not inherently one way or the other.  So...how do you figure out if doing gardening is bad or good for you and/or the relationship?

That's where you have to go "under the surface" and look at reasons/motivations.  Perhaps better said "it's the thought process that goes into gardening that matters...not the gardening itself."

Can you see that?  Start to see that?  

FF

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« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2019, 07:36:46 AM »

  I am just astounded how much all this is also about me.

Welcome

This is a very astute...wise...observation. 

Many of us here have substituted stewarding someone else's life for stewarding our own life.  We then grow frustrated since our efforts to "fix", "manage", "improve"...someone else's life don't work and then there is the added problem of "who is managing our own lives" (usually the answer is a disordered person)

The answer is fairly simple to give, yet hard in practice.  We need to focus on living our own best lives...for us.

FF
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« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2019, 08:16:45 AM »

The answer is fairly simple to give, yet hard in practice.  We need to focus on living our own best lives...for us.

That’s the silver bullet right there!

Enjoy the garden stollencrumbs, and when your done “digging in the dirt”... which is a fav Peter Gabriel tune of mine, then sit back and have a cold one, and marvel at the beautiful roses you’ve worked so hard to grow!

Life is about small victories!... so take time to “smell the roses”!

And remember ! {Enabler quote} No, his suggestion is much cooler. It involves centurions and shields and advances and stuff.    ... “tanks should be supported by dismounted infantry!  !

Hang in there stolencrumbs!

Red5
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« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2019, 10:10:17 AM »

Yes, all those projects need to be done at some point, but certainly it seems as though she's cracking the whip to get it all done ASAP. It doesn't help that she adds to the list by putting holes into drywall, shattering glass doors, and breaking miscellaneous objects on purpose.

Does she do any of the gardening or repair work? What is she doing when you are tending the garden? Is she just sitting on the porch supervising your work? Does she ever make you dinner? Lunch? A snack? Does she bring you a glass of sweet tea? Water when you've been working hard in the heat of the day?

I assume that she's physically capable of helping, since she's strong enough to break glass doors, which likely are tempered glass, unless it's an old house.

You've spent so many years attending to her wants that you've forgotten about your own and feel guilt for even having the desire for an emotionally healthy life.

The question is, how can you take care of your own needs for friendships, relaxation, enjoyment, recreation, companionship with emotionally stable people, and balance that with what appears to be essentially caretaking a spouse who seems unwilling or unable to participate in your relationship.

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« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2019, 04:54:38 PM »

Is Enabler suggesting that Stoblencrumbs take back control of his life...and let the wife react? 

FF
Sir... yes he is Sir.

There’s multiple ways of taking back control of your life, one is a violent obtrusive conflict driven way full of bazookas and AK47s limbs flying and blood everywhere... this way ends in tears for everyone. The method I’m suggesting is almost passive assertion if that’s even a thing. Walking forward with purpose clear for all to see whilst stopping to take defensive shelter and preserve your emotional strength for important steps forward. Use your emotional strength to block your ears and tell yourself how awesome you are for still caring.

One example of how cool you are... you can fix stuff and do things around the house, do you know how people are too useless to know how to do that these days? Do you really?

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