Article about how to approach a pwBPD [Christian discussion]

[formflier]

https://www.crosswalk.com/family/marriage/doctor-david/dealing-with-the-borderline-in-your-life-11579450.html

Randi and SWOE gets a mention in here as well.

This is pretty much how I approach my r/s.  The biggest problem is managing the transition when things are going well (and I'm getting love and affirmation) to when BPD shows back up and I need to go do my own thing for a while.

Looking forward to what others see in this article.

Best,

FF

[Red5]

Morning Formflier,

An interesting article you've shared… I've been following a persona' named Troy Reiner (youtube) of late, specifically… a title… "DBT from a Christian Perspective"... interesting, and helpful to me.

From the article (link) you've shared… I have extracted,
#.1) First, develop the art of detachment.
#2.) Two, give up trying to understand.
#3.) Three, give up your need for consistent love and approval.
#4.) Four, set limits.


… and the Finale’, and Voilà!… "Finally, practice love and honor in your relationship."

Bullets #1. through #4. above sound to me like the writer is telling us to embrace "radical acceptance"… and once we've come to that point… ie' acceptance (radical), then we take the high road as a Christian, and ensure that we love and honor our spouse… even though the relationship is troubled, and fraught with the behaviors we know as borderline personality disorder...

The radical acceptance part to me, is crucial… and then there is the "set limits" part… which is boundaries in the marriage relationship… which can be "dicey"…

Bullets #1. through #3. are basically telling us (imho) that we have to… or better; we must accept the pw/BPD, as a Christian should, just as they are, as they are not likely to change… as in my case, over fifty in age… even within the sphere of claiming Christianity… "the author is telling us to "detach" (with love?)… to stop trying, and "give it to God" the desire to "understand"… and lastly, to "give up your heartfelt need for love and approval"… wow,

So to be able to "take all this onboard", and to remain, in the marriage relationship, as a Christian… a tall order, so we have the cloak of self understanding, and mindfulness (security) to cope… called "radical acceptance"…

Good discussion!

Red5

[empath]

For the most part, I liked the article. Not participating in the drama, setting healthy boundaries, not depending on the spouse for acceptance and love are all good. Even the idea of not controlling is helpful.

The part that I wasn't totally on board with was the idea that we should give up trying to understand. It feels dismissive of the other person to me. Empathy and understanding usually help, especially with more typical folks; it usually de-escalates the emotional reactions that a person is having. On the other side, a lack of empathy and understanding leaves a person feeling disconnected and unattached.

[formflier]

The part that I wasn't totally on board with was the idea that we should give up trying to understand. It feels dismissive of the other person to me. 

I noticed that as well.  Agree with Empath. 

I think it would be much better to say that we should remain open and willing to understand, yet not take it personally when the "understanding" changes in the blink of an eye...or they outright play "keep-away" with letting you understand.

The "keep-away" game used to drive me nuts..my wife got something by me chasing and begging her to make sense.

I now express interest in understanding...and often I will express that I don't understand...perhaps expressing sadness that we can't breach the divide.  Then I move on with life.

FF

[lonely38]

I have gone back and read this article a few times as I come from a Christian faith.  This speaks to me if I can only somehow put this into practice.  With regard to giving up understanding, it also speaks to me.  I have spent a lifetime ruminating, dwelling and focusing on what is going on with my spouse.  Because I will never be able to get in his mind and heart, I will never completely understand.  This way of thinking so much on his stuff has taken me to a level of stress that is not sustainable.  Thus the giving up of trying to understand is more a kindness to myself.  It allows me to truly detach in love, take care of myself, which in turn, hopefully, will giving me the chance to be a better person in the relationship.  If my sole focus is on his stuff, it literally drives me to the brink of crazy as I can never figure it out.  Sure I can try to validate and empathize but figuring it out will never happen.

Not sure if this makes sense?

[Cat Familiar]

I have spent a lifetime ruminating, dwelling and focusing on what is going on with my spouse.  Because I will never be able to get in his mind and heart, I will never completely understand.  This way of thinking so much on his stuff has taken me to a level of stress that is not sustainable.  Thus the giving up of trying to understand is more a kindness to myself.  It allows me to truly detach in love, take care of myself, which in turn, hopefully, will giving me the chance to be a better person in the relationship.  If my sole focus is on his stuff, it literally drives me to the brink of crazy as I can never figure it out.  Sure I can try to validate and empathize but figuring it out will never happen.

I think this is a great explanation of what the author meant by giving up trying to understand. It's easy to misinterpret words, but what I think he means is that we will never be able to understand how the pwBPD thinks. That's different than trying to understand what they're communicating in the moment. If we don't try to understand what they're saying to us, that can be deeply invalidating.

What I've noticed in the three longterm relationships with pwBPD (mom and two husbands), is that what they think can abruptly change their mind seemingly without rhyme or reason. I've gotten into lots of arguments trying to follow their thinking process about how they got from A to B. My intention was pure because I was merely confused--"You really wanted this yesterday. And today you don't?" I was just trying to make sense of it to myself, but my questioning was seen as argumentative.

I like the concept of detachment. Previously I believed that in loving someone, it was necessary to immerse myself and let go of boundaries.    Danger, danger, if that person is a pwBPD. I can't say that I'm familiar with heathy relationships, so it might also be dangerous there. Where I got this mistaken belief that I needed to surrender myself in order to be a good partner? MOM? I was supposed to surrender my autonomy to be a "good daughter," but I just wasn't too capable of that after I became a teenager. 

[formflier]

I also think that (in the context of BPD) that giving up understanding means you aren't going to "chase after" it.

If they don't give an explanation..then fine.  No pleading..begging...JADEing about how they should help you understand.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

I also think that (in the context of BPD) that giving up understanding means you aren't going to "chase after" it.

If they don't give an explanation..then fine.  No pleading..begging...JADEing about how they should help you understand.

FF

Yep. This.

Had I figured this out years ago, it would have avoided lots of dysregulations.

[Skip]

This article reads like a lot of other opinion pieces on the internet. I'm not sure I see how this as a bible based perspective - it mostly says "withdraw".

First, develop the art of detachment.  Yes, this is difficult if you're married to a Borderline. Still, to survive and thrive you must develop the ability to love from a distance. You must develop the ability to observe the drama without participating in it. Much like watching a sitcom on television, you need to watch events unfold without taking them personally.

From a Christian point of view, should this be about "grace" rather than "detachment"?  

But since you excel in everything—in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in complete earnestness and in the love we have kindled in you[a]—see that you also excel in this grace of giving. ~ 2 Corinthians 8:7

Two, give up trying to understand. This goes completely against our grain. Many of us wrongly believe that if we can understand something, we can control it. But, you can't possibly fully understand the thinking of the Borderline. If you get hooked trying to understand it, you will end up suffering.

Shouldn't this be asking God for strength and understanding? And, about reaching out for help in understanding.

The wise prevail through great power, and those who have knowledge muster their strength. ~ Proverbs 24:5

Choose some wise, understanding and respected men from each of your tribes, and I will set them over you.” ~  Deuteronomy

Three, give up your need for consistent love and approval. If you must have their constant love and approval, you'll forever have a hook in your lip. You must let go of the need for constant approval. While this doesn't mean you can't get love and approval some of the time, it will not always be available.

Furthermore, if you're close to the Borderline you'll be the recipient of their rejection, negative feelings and blame. If you need their approval, you'll be flailing on the hook indefinitely.

From a Christian point of view, shouldn't this not be about our looking to God for our fulfillment?

Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God ~ 2 Corinthians 3:5

[formflier]

From a Christian point of view, shouldn't this not be about our looking to God for our fulfillment?

 

Yes..this is a massive point, especially for me.  I had a long period of marriage (15 years or so) that was really good.  I came to "depend" on that relationship for a lot of my happiness, fulfillment..etc etc

When things went south...I clung to it..tried really hard to get it back (and inadvertently made things worse)...well for several years I focused even more on my marriage (the worse it got..the more I put focus and effort there).

When I started shifting things to focusing on God and focusing on being a "steward" of my life (vice trying to steward my wife)..things started to improve.

God has been triangulated (in a bad way) into our marriage and (sadly) when I put effort into "less God" in my marriage, things are calmer...when there is effort into "more God"...things get rockier.

I need to go back and read the article again...

Glad there is still life in this discussion.

FF

[empath]

This article reads like a lot of other opinion pieces on the internet. I'm not sure I see how this as a bible based perspective

That was my impression, too. I didn't see a lot of biblically based advice, except for one paragraph that mentioned love, grace, kindness, etc.

From a Christian point of view, shouldn't this not be about our looking to God for our fulfillment?

As Christians, our identity comes from our relationship with God - the source of love. Love God, love others. Ultimately, it's not our job to control our spouse; that's God's area.

There's so much I could say about the integration of the Christian faith into our marriages.

[Red5]

This scripture came to mind...
James 5; 16... “Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.”

The ‘confess your faults part one to another’... ‘that ye may be healed’... that’s faith, that’s a work in progress...  but this actually was happening at lunch last Friday... “give it over to God and let God”.

Continue in prayer...

Red5

[lonely38]

Most of my married life, I have been so focused on what is going on in the marriage and trying to figure things out, that I have left little time for God.  When things get really tough, I always go back to God.  In the end, this has really strengthened my faith.  When I cannot figure things out, it is comforting knowing I really do not have to.

What I still need to work on is the way that my body reacts to marriage.  When things are good in marriage, I am calm and my body feels good.  When they are not, I am so trigger happy that I go into hyper stress mode.  This is not good for me or for anyone else around me.

I am finally realizing that my BPD husband is not going to change at this point in his life.  He is going to continue to stumble along.  He has lots of good personality traits.  My prayer and hope is that I can find a way to love from a distance, find joy in other relationships and activities and somehow persevere to the end in marriage.

Is this my life's dream?  Of course not.  But with faith and the hope of eternity, I am encouraged that this is ok.  I am grateful for this thread on this site.  I love all that I have learned on the message board but this particular thread has been encouraging.

[Upandown]

I haven't read the article.  But the points that were summarized are just another way to "manage" the relationship.  Managed relationships are not real, reciprocal, genuine relationships.   

[empath]

Continue in prayer ...

Red5

Praying for you, Red5. James 1:5 says "If anyone lacks wisdom, he should ask God..."

[Red5]

James 1:5 says "If anyone lacks wisdom, he should ask God..."

Seems all through my adult life… when I got into a mess, and the cards I was dealt were wet and ripped up… I always did what Granny and Grampa had told me to do… "turn to the Lord"… my Grandmother used to read this aloud while sitting at her kitchen counter most mornings…

Philippians 4:8… "Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable-if anything is excellent or praiseworthy-think about such things."

I think this passage is relevant in our relationships with our borderline partners, as in; even in the midst… we should strive, and try our 'level' best to remember why we fell in love with them and married them in the first place… as that person is still in there somewhere… albeit perhaps lost… but that person still depends on us to be there for them… I've read (listened) as much in two different books (audio) in the last several weeks…

Red5,

[empath]

Red5, when I was going through the "membership class" at my current church, our pastor encouraged us to try to have "charitable thoughts" toward others.

In some cases, they still depend on us to be there - if they haven't attached themselves to someone else. Basic human kindness, respect, care ...  goes a long way... 

[Red5]

In some cases, they still depend on us to be there - if they haven't attached themselves to someone else.

Basic human kindness, respect, care...  goes a long way... 

It certainly does empath,giving kindness, respect and care... also; giving and then forgetting... don’t expect anything in return, that’s very “freeing”... it is so healthy to “let go” of any previous anger, just let it go, albeit be protective of yourself, but to not be in a constant state of “remember when”...

We have to have a feeling of inner security though to be able to do this... independent of the other person, I’m thinking of codependency here, if you’ve worked yourself to a point of not being codependent any longer, then it’s much easier to give to the other person, and not then “wait on them” to act in a reciprocal way... to sustain us in return... and then when they don’t, you are able, to “let that go”... and continue on your own course...

This I believe is part of being in a relationship with a borderline... we have to love them from a protective state, stance, position... perhaps insert boundaries here?

If we get in too close... and forget for a moment whom our partner really is... we are liable to get hurt yet again...

This is the true conundrum of loving a person whom is a borderline or even a person who also at the same time has narcissistic traits (spectrum).

... caretakers want to give, protect, help, and even try to “fix” the other person... there is a fine line between helping and enabling.

I’ve learnt this lesson over and over the hard way throughout my life...

The nice lady on the YouTube channel said this while ago... and it struck like an incoming mortar round in my head... she said, “there is a fine line between a soul mate, and a cell mate when you are in an abusive, codependent... and dysfunctional relationship”...

“Whoa”...

It’s the old rescue swimmer synopsis again, sure, jump out of a perfectly good and flying helicopter, into a turbulent sea to rescue someone... insert wife, husband, boyfriend, girlfriend etc’... when you jump... you better be a good swimmer, and well trained (educated) in what you are attempting to do... if not that person in the water will drown the both of you... metaphorically...

You have to first ensure you,yourself are even able to, and healthy enough, strong enough to ‘give’ any and all of yourself to the other... but we can not allow them to pull us under,

Broad subject here, as the article says... imho, don’t expect anything back, sustained mutual support...but still support, love, and attempt to nurture... but be of a mind to let it go, as the prognosis is what it is... we are going to have to depend on ourselves, and not place any dependance on our partner,

Yes, broad subject... we have to be stong to survive in these relationships...

Red5

[AskingWhy]

For years, my uBPD/uNPD H raged and ranted at me, punched holes in walls, broke objects, upended furniture and called me the worst names one can imagine.

I would say God does not like this, and he got close to my face, and screamed at full volume like a drill sergeant, "There...IS...NO...GOD!"  After the death of his mother, who was an enabler to a uNPD H, my own H started to see things differently.  (For the meantime, at least.)  He knew his uNPD F emotionally used and abused his M, and knew she deserved much better during her 60 years of marriage.

This MAY have given my own H insights into his abusive and volatile behaviour toward me. 

Then again, pwBPD have notorious double standards and split family members both black and white. 

For now, my H is more patient and better able to control his rages, although this month he broke a ceramic vase by hitting it with an object in a fit of rage.  This is of concern to me even though he does not do this in front of me.  It is a form of symbolic violence.

[empath]

My h has currently split the church and God black...  because he really believed that he was called into ministry. He still hasn't come to the place of admitting that he pushed himself into it and refused to receive the wisdom of the churches that said he shouldn't do it. So, obviously, God must not "call" people - everyone is just deluded... 

I've been thinking about the idea that we just need to detach from our spouse. That sounds all fine and good, but we are created for relationships that are interdependent. We need a level of safety to be able to depend on or trust our partners.

This week, one of the local pastors in our denomination passed away. I remember several years ago, his wife had started an organization, raised funds, and went nation wide. He was amazed at her abilities.

I long for that kind of relationship.