A long post: A Description of the most recent fight..feelings and more feelings.

[LumosNox22]

My weekend with my BPD Mom. I am 26 years old and she is 46 years old. She has BPD and Chrohns Disease.

The situation goes...I noticed the night before we were going to get my brother, my mother was starting get  in a glummy mood, and it only increased Saturday morning... So, we're taking at-home Senior Pictures for my youngest brother. My mom came from TN to spend the next week with me so we can go to his graduation. My brother and I have a very close relationship. When I spend time with him, my spirit is uplifted and we joke and carry on and talk about his and mine interests. So here we are taking pictures in my yard and my mother likes to nitpick situations and I find extremely irritating. So we were taking pictures and mom was trying to get him to pose this certain way or stand over here and I would assure my brother he was fine and just to act natural. I want him to be comfortable and be himself. Those are the pictures I wanted to capture of my brother. My mom took extreme defense to this and went and slammed the door in our guest room. My brother and I did our normal, she'll-be-fine-and-we-will-deal-with-it-talk and took a few more pictures. My brother insisted we go in and check on her. He went to talk with her. At this time my 2 year old was taking a nap in his room. My brother comes out and sits next to me...here comes my mom shaking with rage and yelling...*this has been shortened and is from my point of view because I have a tendency to block out conversations...

C you don't respect me. Every time we get around other people especially the boys, you change. When were here alone you are relaxed. I could tell when we were talking about tv shows earlier you just shut down and didn't want to talk to me. You disrespect me all the time in front of the boys.  -mom


What exactly did I say that shows disrespect? -me



It's not what you said is how you act. You hurt me. I am hurting inside. You're angry at me. You threw a beer bottle at my head once. You hate me. -mom



You know I love you. Why else would I get excited when I invite you to come stay with me. I try to extend the time we spend together. You are my son's Mimi., We love you. -me


I am trying to work through my hurt. I am trying to talk to you. I don't understand why you don't respect me. You have never respected me.-mom.


My brother (hugs my mom) we love you know we do.-my brother***



You don't show that you care. You don't come see me when I come to Arkansas. You don't text me you don't call me. Is that how you show respect and love?-my mom



-My brother and my mom are hugging and she's crying and my brother is crying. And she says something to my brother that is manipulating something of the nature...Do you know that I love you so why don't you love me?



I lose my cool a little bit here.


Don't talk to him like that mom, don't manipulate him in to doing things he doesn't want to do. please stop yelling my son is asleep.-me


Okay. I am not yelling. But I'm tired of being disrespected. Even when I was living here no one came and saw me.-my mom crying


I do not disrespect you. Outside when I told T it was fine was in response to what Tsaid not to what you said about how to move exactly or etc. I was just protecting T. The reason the boys don't come around is because of these outbursts (gestured to her crying and screaming at us). You had a lot of people around that made the boys uncomfortable during that time. -me



Why do you feel like you have to protect him from me? Do you think I'm such a terrible mother? He is eighteen years old.  I know you think you're a better mother than me. When will you let me be their mother and when can i be your mother?*** I wouldn't have had those people around if you had come see me. It's times like these when I understand why people commit suicide.I was raped and abused my whole childhood. -my mom (She always brings the rape and abuse when I tell her that our childhood was not good. She is always telling me in arguments or insinuating that since I wasn't abused all the time and raped that our childhood was not terrible. It took me a while to catch on to this one.)



I don't ever think that I am a better mother than you. It is a instinctual reaction I have with my brothers. Your disorder makes you do things that are not rational.  I had to protect them from you and from Dad. And whoever did them harm.



Am I that terrible monster mother? You can't blame everything on the disorder. I am not a narcissist***. I have been working on being better. You were the one who couldn't handle him crying when you were 9. I know that's when it started. I shouldn't have let you do that and let him sleep in your bed when you were younger and then maybe you wouldn't feel this way. I am hurting and I think you need to talk to someone who is not me. Because we can never move past this if you don't. We can never have a better relationship if you don't find a way to move on.  I realize that you both are done having this conversation so I'm going to stop. -my mom (At this point in the conversation like so many others, she becomes calm and starts saying rational things which give me whiplash.)



For the rest of the afternoon. She won't be in same room as me. Lingers in the doorway. Moves out of my regular spot on the couch because my brother is sitting there even though I go sit on the other couch and I'm not upset about it at all. Trying to forget what argument just transpired and move on with our day. She mopes around being sad and not talking to me for the rest of the day.



It wasn't until I was  in HS that I realized I had raised my youngest brother. We are 9 years apart. I have this validation from my step dad, his mother, and my maternal grandmother and my uncle. (My mother tells me I brought this upon myself but I couldn't let my brother cry it out when he was a baby). As a result, my youngest brother slept in my bed until he 7 years old and I finally kicked him out. Trying to find myself and mature into adult but I still feel guilty looking back that I kicked him out.



Saturday night: We go out to eat and everything is mostly normal then I take my brother home and as soon as we drop him off,  my mother starts in on me. Completely out of context for the most part, but we have not been talking the whole 45 min drive there so she'd been stewing and thinking the whole time. I have been trying to shut down and block it out so that I do not get enraged and support her mood.


I know you think I'm a terrible mother. Maybe it's just best that I leave. You're so smart and beautiful. But you're shutting me out. You won't let me be a mother to the boys...Maybe it's best that I'm just not apart of your lives anymore. You're happier without me..etc. etc. etc.-my mom


I will not participate in this downward spiral. I do not want to be a part of it. -me



You can just not participate then. As if you care.-my mom.



I say nothing the rest of the way home. I don't even know what to say. I'm sad and angry. We get home I tell my husband all about it. My mom leaves the house drives off with out her purse doesn't come back until 12am. I cry a bunch. As my husband and I are laying in bed, I start crying more and he tries to comfort me so I open up.



My mom keeps saying that I don't trust her but I don't trust anyone. I don't trust JA fully, I always want to know where our son is. That's why I set boundaries and limitations when it comes to our son. I am always going to double check everything. I need to be in control.Even you, who I trust the most, I'm going to do crazy PLEASE READ like make sure the diapers on the right way.-me


Just don't let it get out of hand.-my husband


My husband rolls away from me in bed. I feel like my honesty has pushed him away from me emotionally. I cry myself to sleep, my heart breaking because once again the things I say, hurt him, hurt my mom, hurt everyone. I am a selfish person.



Sunday: My husband is home all day with us.***  She wakes up in a bad mood and doesn't want to be in the same rooms as me. I try to be overly cheerful to help her out of the mood and insist she comes with all of us to the playground.. When we come back we work in my garden and she extremely helpful and overly agreeable to everything I say. She nice and everything and we're getting a long.



Monday Morning: First thing she wakes up grumpy. I'm getting ready for work and to get M to daycare. M's has missed daycare since the last Tuesday because he had a double ear infection and swollen allergy eye. So for about a week he'd been off his routine and getting up in the middle of the night and sleeping with me and my husband. Last night I forced him to cry it out for about 5 mins and he slept through the night. I was wanting to get him to Daycare because I knew it was going to be tantrum hell to get him back to daycare. And it was.

Even before mom got up, I was preparing and hardening myself to tell my mom that I was not going to let her watch him today because I was taking him to Daycare. So i casually say that I'm taking him to day care this morning and she responds:



I know you and your husband think i'm crazy and you don't trust me to watch your son so Saturday I'll leave and you can just let JA watch my son.-my mom


No, mom. I still would like you to watch him on Saturday for me. He needs to get back in the day care routine.


I think it's best if you just let JA watch him since you trust her more.-my mom


No. I'm not doing this. I'm not having this conversation.-me


She gets mad goes back to the guest room and slams the door.


Several hours later her GF texts me saying how much my mom has improved and why she decided to stay with her... It was invasion of my life. I don't want my mom's GF making me feel guilty about how I interact with my mom. She has NOT EXPERIENCED this her entire life.



***I don't respond well to the the "let me be their mother" on the inside. I truthfully I hold it against her for leaving my brothers at such a young age, but I forgive her because that's not who she is, but I will not forget. My mother believes when I say "leaving" that I  mean divorcing my dad and moving out. I mean leaving as in checking out completely. I was thankful then when they got divorced and moved out. But my junior/senior year my mom checked out. She started webcamming people and having sexual relationships with people. She stopped being a responsible adult. I get that people have midlife crisis but this was on a whole other level.. That being said my Dad was no ace-in-hole. He constantly made us lie to our grandparents about what were doing and where were going and our financial situations. My senior year he stole checks out of my checkbook and wrote hot checks out of my account. Refused to help get back and forth to my job so i had a boyfriend do it and my best friend. He would pull my hair or kick me. Whip me with the belt when it was unnecessary. Make me stand on one leg and hop in the corner, and if i puked or switched legs, then I would be whipped for it.



***Several years ago, I was searching for a reason that my mom was the way she was. So  I had saved some pins of websites on the Narcissistic Mother. I did not understand then that my mother had something way more complicated called BPD. We didn't find out until about 3 years ago with her 2nd admittance in a rehab center that she possibly had BPD. Anyways, my mother found these pins on my Pinterest and went to a downward spiral mood where she get sad and doesn't get up and get slightly suicidal. I have explained and explained this to her but she cannot rationalize why i would think she was a narcissist. Her girlfriend of 5-6 years cannot even begin to understand the gas lighting and arguments that she has. When my mom is around her or my husband...she does not act the same. We do not fight. I dread sometimes when she's in a mood to be left alone in the house when she's visiting. Her GF and her have worked through the BPD and the Bipolar the GF has, but she doesn't understand how my mother acts.



***My brothers way of dealing with my mom is trying to say anything that makes her happy the fastest. He wants to agree with her so we don't have to deal with the episode. He's 18 and doesn't realize he's doing this. I feel like because I've been trying to protect my brothers for so long that I've had a different aspect and can see more when she's trying to manipulate/gaslight them than me.





***I have a hard time verifying what I experienced in my childhood as real because of the things my mother says in arguments or normal conversations.



***I get frustrated because I don't like fighting and arguing around my son. Some fighting between my husband and I is fine. It's healthy arguments that people have. But the fights and things my mom does are unhealthy and irrationally angry and don't wont to expose my son to that.


***We never have this kind of fights when my husband or Cxxxx is around. I don't know why that is but it is too often to be coincidental.


I am done feeling guilty, I am done walking on eggshells, I don't want my coping mechanisms to damage my relationship with my husband and my son. Eventually, I guess I want a working relationship with mom. The whiplash is that when she's not have a BPD episode we have a great relationship. So, I need to see a therapist. I need someone to talk to about my past experiences. I don't want to be a victim but I don't want to ignore the hurt anymore that I feel. If i could talk to someone and not feel crazy about all "this." That would be great. I AM TIRED OF FEELING THAT BECAUSE OF THE THINGS I DO/SAY CAUSE HER TO ACT LIKE THIS AND BECOME DEPRESSED. I AM HER DAUGHTER. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR MY MOTHER. I AM NOT A BAD PERSON, A BAD CHILD, A DISRESPECTFUL SELFISH HUMAN BEING. I HAVE UNHEALTHY WAYS TO COPE AND PROTECT.

[Harri]

Hi LumosNox.  Thanks for sharing all of that.  Do you feel better getting it out?

Your last paragraph reads like a declaration of intention to heal and protect yourself and those you love and I think it is great.  

Reading through your conversations, I think there are things you handled very well and there are some areas that might need a bit of work.  I don't say that to point fingers though.  I mention it because there are a couple of articles you may want to read to help you end some of these circular conversations and might give you a better chance of being heard.

Don't JADE is one of them,  JADE stands for justify, argue, defend explain.  When we do these things, we feed into the never-ending conversation and circular pattern and can actually escalate things.  We also make it seem like we have something to defend or hide, confirming to the other person that they are being persecuted.  Read it and see what you think.

Another tool is Don't Invalidate.   Sometimes we invalidate even though we are trying to do the opposite and this can escalate things.  For example, if your mom says "you don't love me", assuring her that you do, even though it is true, can come off as invalidating to her.  Assuring her you love her invalidates her feelings of being unloved.  

If she is dysregulated, validation will not help nor is it appropriate.  However, making sure we do not invalidate can help things not escalate and that makes life easier for us.

Okay, there is lots more to talk about but I think this is enough for now.  I might be on the wrong track!  See what you think of the articles and let me know.

 

[LumosNox22]

Harri,

The communication skills was an eye opener for me.
It is constant pull and tug between my BPDM and I. We constantly validate then invalidate each other. My mom's rages, constant need for validation in general, narcissism during the rages, and our past history make it hard for me to normalize any responses. I take responsibility in the fact that I refuse to empathize or validate her, which I guess it what she needs?
Trying to evaluate myself and why I react this way, the only conclusion I can come to is my pride? Only Since, I moved out of my parent's house (I moved out a month or two before I graduated high school), have I been able to say that the way I was treated was wrong that I deserved better.
I guess I don't really forgive her for any of it. I mean she was the adult and I had to be an adult from such an early age that and being held accountable for my feelings and the way I acted. So, to realize as an adult, that I can't hold my mother accountable and she doesn't get to "punished" for her actions seems unfair.
I know that sounds harsh, malicious, and just bad. In my defense, I remember in my childhood crying, moaning myself to sleep because I felt like I was  bad child, i couldn't do anything right, and I was selfish. Feeling like I wanted  my life to end at times, but to cowardly to do it. And then also thinking I was even more selfish to feel this way, because I was raised to believe, "that we don't whine. Why are you crying? I'll give you something to cry about." I was always treated my mom or my step-dad that was oversensitive and if I had just done what I was told then I wouldn't deserve punishment. As an adult, I realize that it wasn't my fault, and yes I could be snotty child/teenager but that's kind-of normal. A lot of my attitude was a coping mechanism for how I was brought up.
I want to take responsibility for being an asshole child at times too. 

It is whiny for me to say this, but I don't want to validate any of my mom's validations. I want her to be a grown up and to be normal. I want her stop demanding respect and earn it.

I know this only part of it but it's so frustrating to be the bigger person and soothe her.

[Harri]

Hi.  Thanks for reading the articles and coming back to talk about them.

Validation is a tough topic especially for us here on PSI (parent sibling and in-law board).  That is why we tend to talk about it in terms of don't invalidate instead.  I get it though.  Who wants to validate someone who abuses us and or invalidates us at every turn? 

The thing is, validation, used appropriately, is not about appeasing or acquiescing people.  It is a tool that helps us by not escalating things.  anything that makes these interactions easier is, IMO worth it.  It takes practice and sometimes finding something to validate is just beyond my capabilities at the moment and that is where I focus on not invalidating.

I mean she was the adult and I had to be an adult from such an early age that and being held accountable for my feelings and the way I acted. So, to realize as an adult, that I can't hold my mother accountable and she doesn't get to "punished" for her actions seems unfair.

You are right.  It is unfair.

I know that sounds harsh, malicious, and just bad.

It does not sound like any of those things to me.  It sounds like someone who is finally seeing their own needs and wants and seeing their self as separate from their parent.  Like someone who is seeing the unfair power balance that co-existed with an unfair, inappropriate and abusive way of having to take care of the parent/adult who abused you.   

It is whiny for me to say this, but I don't want to validate any of my mom's validations. I want her to be a grown up and to be normal. I want her stop demanding respect and earn it.

It is not whiney it is a true and very valid feeling you are having.  I understand.  I too wanted my mom to grow up and be normal and earn my respect.  My mother was incapable of doing that and once I stopped expecting her to be something she was not able to be, in some ways, things got easier.  It is a process

Keep talking with us.