Still feel a strong bond

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Hi,  
I used to be here some years ago, working on improving my relationship with my dBPDh. I needed to step back for a while as I felt overwhelmed and in need of more one-on-one work with a therapist.

I'm at a point now where I feel ready to come back here for some more work. So, I find myself on this board. I’m not exactly sure what I want to say or ask for now, so this will be more of a stream of consciousness, just to get started again. I’ll sum it up at the bottom of the post for anyone who wishes to skip to the short version.

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Long version:
My husband and separated 1 year ago. It was painful and difficult and we both struggled with it, staying LC for a few months only to get back in touch and stay in some kind of half-relationship for a while before I decided to take several steps back. So the separation has been messy and unclear.

First off, I’m having difficulties letting go. It’s not that I want to go back to the relationship we had, nor to again be who we were together. It was unhealthy and triggering, even with many improvements on both our sides. I still feel a strong bond with him, though. Why is it so … I have worked on this, had some realisations in therapy that getting him to treat me well would somehow give me more worth, that if this difficult person could turn all nice and sweet thanks to my loving care, I must surely be a good person. That might be part of why I got stuck, turning in circles. I don’t know. Maybe we were just a really good match in terms of emotional immaturity and looking to others for rescue.

I said at the start of my post that I wanted to 'work with a therapist'. To be honest what I really wanted deep down was validation that I was a good and valuable person and that I was being treated horribly my spouse. I can see that now.

I recently went through a difficult period struggling with, I guess, the all-consuming question of 'What is my worth?'. On an intellectual level, I could say many nice things about myself. But doing the hard work in therapy has showed me that my most innermost thought or feeling about myself is 'I am nothing. I’m worth nothing'. The reasons for this goes way back, certainly to long before the relationship with my ex-pwBPD. He poked around in my wounds, and I let him, and I have spent much time and energy unravelling why I was so willing for him do so.

And just for clarification purposes. I do not hold him responsible for 'poking around in my wounds' as I phrased it, nor do I believe he did so on purpose or even that it was a counscious action. We were both fragile, in similar ways, but used different coping mechanisms to deal with it.  

What I really resisted in therapy, though, was the acceptance that I was just as much a part of the problem as my ex. I would acknowledge my issues with pour boundary skills and non-efficient communication patterns, but deep down I really always felt like a brave victim, the one to be seen as 'putting up with a difficult person' and 'being patient and good'. It was hard for me to fully own my part of the drama and to see how the behaviours and coping mechanisms I had developed through the years created a lot of the issues between us. My part might not have been so visible, because I wasn’t screaming my head off or threatening with violence. It was there, nonetheless.

There are in a way two levels. On a more surface level, it’s about wanting respect, compassion and love from someone I hold dear. These are normal values. On a deeper level it’s about core wounds and unconscious coping strategies.

I don’t know where I want to go with this post … I learned through therapy to express what comes to my mind and to follow the thought where it takes me. These musings are maybe not right for this board, but I feel I need to have this as my main board right now as I work on detaching.

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Short version:
My ex and I separated 1 year ago. We were in LC for a few months, then had more and more contact up to and including sleeping together from time to time and going on excursions, until I took several steps back about 3 months ago. We now text some and call some about non-relationship things. I'm still quite close with his family.

I’m struggling with detaching and still feel a strong bond with him.

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi Scarlet Phoenix,

I am glad you decided to return to the boards. Welcome back to BPD Family. 

You sound like you have, indeed, done lots of important work in therapy. It sounds like you are being completely honest about your own issues and your part in the dysfunctional dance, and that is certainly not easy. I commend you for being brave enough to face your core wounds and acknowledge the role they play in your unconscious coping mechanisms. Many times, people would rather stay comfortably (if miserably) in the dark, rather than to shine the light on everything in the room. Light can hurt one's eyes when it is first turned on in a completely dark place, but eventually, the eyes adjust, and one can see much better.

I relate to your negative core message of "I'm nothing, I'm worth nothing." Recently, in emdr therapy, I discovered that my negative core message (which started long ago in childhood) is "
I'm not good enough." It's amazing just how many tendrils these negative core messages have; reaching into how we think, how we process or react to emotions, how we relate with others, how we talk to ourselves.

I think it is natural that you are still struggling with detaching, and that you still feel a strong bond, due to the intense nature of these relationships and the unclear lines surrounding the separation. What made you decide to take the "3 steps back"? Do you anticipate taking even more steps back from the interaction level you now have?

BTW I love your name. The phoenix is significant for me, too.

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

[Butane]

I am also separated from my BPD trait, dPTSDh. I also developed the belief of "I am nothing, I am worthless"... but when the T asks things like " how long have you felt like this! and "how old do you feel right now?", I answer " about 3 years" and "40 years old".

In other words, I felt like I didn't have this "core wound" I keep hearing about. My upbringing was not perfect, but happy. I was a normal person with what I felt were average self worth, self-awareness, etc.

That's something I don't "get", but the feelings of worthlessness I totally get. When someone you adore confuses you so much with their behavior.

[Turkish]

To be honest what I really wanted deep down was validation that I was a good and valuable person and that I was being treated horribly my spouse. I can see that now.

This is certainly a conundrum. I saw an elder member here once say "you can't fix your problem with one person with a competently different person,  that's impossible."

And thus we look for validation and self worth from others.  I got the Splitting from my mother as a kid,  and then decades later from my ex, after I thought I had moved past letting others define my self worth.  It was a struggle, and it hurt, and I also threw up my dysfunctional coping barriers (withdrawal) which triggered my uBPD. To this day, 6 years later. I'm not sure how differently I could have dealt with it. Her projections, and my baggage.

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Thank you for the move, I was drawn to the Learning-board, but unsure if I should pass by the Detaching-board first.

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Thank you all for your replies! I had the day off yesterday and went for a long hike in the round green hills, the sweet scent of lavender and rosemary in the air, the hot sun high in the sky above and I had your replies with me in my thoughts. I like to take walks and sort of mediate on things that have happened, or where I am mentally and emotionally at the moment.

Redeemed, you said

I relate to your negative core message of "I'm nothing, I'm worth nothing." Recently, in emdr therapy, I discovered that my negative core message (which started long ago in childhood) is "I'm not good enough." It's amazing just how many tendrils these negative core messages have; reaching into how we think, how we process or react to emotions, how we relate with others, how we talk to ourselves

I agree! I had no idea, before I started doing the work. Have you done any work outside of therapy, for example read any interesting books on the subject? I have complemented my therapy with some reading on my own, but not until I had done a good deal of work already in therapy.
What is EMDR therapy?

What made you decide to take the "3 steps back"? Do you anticipate taking even more steps back from the interaction level you now have?

I noticed that our old pattern was popping up again. He would get angry over something I perceived as a minor detail, I would stay calm but not validate or doing anything productive, and I would feel resentment that he was 'doing it again'. So basically I was placing myself right in the victim corner of the Karpman triangle again. I would also notice that I wasn't really taking care of myself, I was eating badly and not exercising, so I didn't feel well physically. Those are bad signs for me, as it will often spiral into depression, so I have to be vigilant with it.
I had a hard time accepting that I needed to step back, though. I think what made me realise that I had to, was when one day he very sweetly took my face in his hands, looked me in my eyes and softly said "I love you". He rarely said it when we were a couple, and didn't say it once the last year and a half we were together. I was something I struggled with at the time, and to hear it now and just feel awkward made me see that I didn't want this half-relationship gray area anymore.

I like phoenixes, too. Fly high!

Hi Butane!

In other words, I felt like I didn't have this "core wound" I keep hearing about. My upbringing was not perfect, but happy. I was a normal person with what I felt were average self worth, self-awareness, etc.
That's something I don't "get", but the feelings of worthlessness I totally get. When someone you adore confuses you so much with their behavior.

Feelings of worthlessness are hard to live with. And I, too, was so confused at first. What here on  bpdfamily has helped you in particular with these feelings, do you think?
I couldn't say if we all have a core wound from childhood, and maybe we don't all have to go that far back. If you work with what has happened the last three years and then see how you feel, maybe that would be enough. I'm not familiar with you story, I'm afraid. Where are you in the healing process?

Hi Turkish

you can't fix your problem with one person with a competently different person,  that's impossible.

Ah, so true. It's easy to seek outside validation, and I still catch myself doing it. And it's so easy to put all the blame for our hurt on others. I mean as adults, of course.

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Redeemed also asked if I anticipate taking even more steps back. That is a good question and hard to answer. I think I should, for my own well-being. But I don't really want to.
I'll stop there for now. I need to sit with this.

[babyducks]

Maybe we were just a really good match in terms of emotional immaturity and looking to others for rescue.

 We were both fragile, in similar ways, but used different coping mechanisms to deal with it.  

Great Post Scarlet Phoenix.     Thank you so much for putting that out here.

I think the part that struck me the most is the two snips above.     I often felt, do still feel that my Ex and are so very much alike.     We might express it quite differently, her doing more of the 'screaming her head off'  and me retreating and withdrawing into a depressed quiet.   but at the center of it we are very much the same.

I am never quite sure if this is 'mirroring'.    Or if it is that I was never as emotionally open with another human as I was with her, so I never saw humanity at this level.    Or if we just really are a good match in how our personalities line up.

I have a hard time detaching too.    I think that may be because I think/feel we are enough alike that detaching from her would be letting go of myself.    Lots to unravel there too.    Is that enmeshment?    a recognition of our shared humanity?   In many ways we are eerily similar.   Is it that we shared such intensity for so long we are truly bonded?       I am not sure.     

what I have been working on lately is how much detaching do I really have to do?  a year ago I would have said completely totally wipe the slate clean it never happened.     Now I find my position shifting on that.   

lots to think about here.    thanks.
'ducks

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Hi Babyducks!

I feel very validated by you post 

Those are some complex observations. I will have to think about this a little, I will come back later. Thank you for your sharing!

For now, I will just put down that I felt so sad after posting the last post. It's like coming back here and starting writing again makes it all the more real. It's good, but it's sad.

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Edited for formatting

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi Scarlet Phoenix

EMDR is Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing therapy, used mainly for processing traumatic memories, but can also be effective for anxiety and depression. It's even being used for nicotine addiction and smoking cessation.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapy-types/eye-movement-desensitization-and-reprocessing-therapy%3famp

I have not done any outside reading yet, though I would like to. I don't know where to start. The EMDR is a little intense, even though I saw immediate results in just a couple sessions. I am currently on hiatus from T until July, bc my T ended her internship at the dv office and is moving to a permanent practice. I will continue with her when she is settled. I have noticed my anxiety and depression increasing since the break from the T, however.

I think my h and I were a match in emotional immaturity, but I was interested in progressing... and he wasn't...

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Babyducks, you certainly gave me something to ponder. Hmm, yes, maybe we were mirroring each other? I'm not sure I have a good grasp of mirroring. I can relate to being more emotionally open with my ex-dBPDh than any other person. I used to think of myself as the more cool and collected type. Boy, did that change! Before this relationship, I had a 10 year relationship with a non. I was never very emotional with him when it came to our relationship. He once said that he was disappointed when I didn't even shed a tear of happiness on our wedding day. I just didn't see myself as the emotional type.

I think for me that being so emotionally open (with my ex-dBPDh) for the first time in my life, and the intensity of it, has made it hard for me to detach. It has felt like I lost so much. I can rationally see that that isn't the case, but it sure has felt like it. I'm slowly feeling a little more balanced.

I think that may be because I think/feel we are enough alike that detaching from her would be letting go of myself.    Lots to unravel there too.    Is that enmeshment?    a recognition of our shared humanity?

Interesting!
I poured so much of my attention and thoughts into him and gave him so much importance and power over my state of mind and emotional well-being. It could be that I was so invested in him and ignoring myself, so losing him feels like losing myself.

I am Redeemed, thanks for the info on EMDR! I’m always looking for different ways to heal or develop more self awareness.

I think my h and I were a match in emotional immaturity, but I was interested in progressing... and he wasn't...

That makes it hard. If one matures and the other stays the same, the relationship dynamic can become too unbalanced.
Actually, my ex-dBPDh dived into therapy some time into our relationship, and was very dilligent in going. I could see some behavioural changes after a while, and I knew I had to work on myself to keep up.

[babyducks]

Hi Scarlet Phoenix,

As I was using the term, mirroring is subconsciously imitating the gesture, speech pattern, or attitude of another.   It triggers some interesting neuro responses which are probably beyond my ability to explain.    Short version is that mirroring creates a stronger connection.    I don't mean to suggest a negative pathology.   everyone mirrors to some degree.   I believe in my relationship I mirrored a lot.   and she mirrored a lot.  we created a very strong connection.

I was more emotionally open with my Ex, than with anyone before.   I let her in, behind the walls in ways I can barely explain.   I just don't have the language for it.

and we are/were eerily similar.    for example; years before we met, when we were both in our 20's we both made a bold decision to embrace a certain heritage and we both still do that today, 40 years later.     I've never met anyone else that did that.   we both enjoy the same sports.     we are both voracious readers.  we have similar family of origin stories.    we are a lot alike.

put those three things all together and yes we have all sorts of strong deep connections.

I also poured a lot of attention and affection and effort into my Ex and our relationship.    there was something very vibrant and meaningful and satisfying about it.   I am not sure what.    If I figure it out I will come back and tell you. 

I am interested in something Turkish said,  "dysfunctional coping barriers (withdrawal)".   Yes.   This.    When my relationship was failing I retreated behind my dysfunctional coping barriers.     Withdrawing not just from her and my commitment to the relationship but from my own feelings and emotions.   Without delving into it's origins I can say that she gave my life such meaning and purpose.   Letting go of that meaning and purpose was letting go of parts of me.   parts of me I actually ~liked~.   

I think my h and I were a match in emotional immaturity, but I was interested in progressing... and he wasn't...

   

I am sorry that your h wasn't interested in progressing.   My experience was quite different.    My Ex was very committed to her mental health.    Diagnosed Bipolar 1 comorbid with 'another disorder in the same spectrum', she was complaint with medication and religious about therapy and self care.    I watched her manage her mental health and her health team, and can honestly say she could not have made any more effort.   I also recognize how difficult it was for her to make progress and maintain it.    I struggle with depression,   it's always with me to some degree and colors much of what I do.   Still that is nothing in compared to the struggle she waged daily to manage her symptoms of bipolar disorder.    While she was very complaint with medication, it was only marginally effective for her.

That understanding actually helps with my detaching in that I have come to understand that with the health burdens she carries daily the additional strain of a relationship is too much for her to bear.    It's beyond her limitations.    When my asthma is acting up, don't ask me to exercise, I am struggling to breath.     When her moods are shifting, she can't be in partnership, she is struggling to contain her fragile state.    We all have limitations somewhere.

'ducks

[Scarlet Phoenix]

I am interested in something Turkish said,  "dysfunctional coping barriers (withdrawal)".   Yes.   This.    When my relationship was failing I retreated behind my dysfunctional coping barriers.     Withdrawing not just from her and my commitment to the relationship but from my own feelings and emotions.   Without delving into it's origins I can say that she gave my life such meaning and purpose.   Letting go of that meaning and purpose was letting go of parts of me.   parts of me I actually ~liked~. 

I recognise this. So the question now is how do we deal with this, how do we go forward?
Recognising it is a first step. Time will help. But I think I need to be more active in healing from this than just letting time pass, or it will just always be just under the surface. Something to think about.