Repeating patterns

[Zabava]

Today my therapist validated what I have been feeling for some time, which is that my spouse triggers emotional flashbacks for me by treating we with contempt and using sarcasm and anger to gain a sense of control.  I also feel that I have become subservient and allowed him to bully me and my kids.  He is a kind and caring person when he is not stressed and not in any way abusive, but, I feel like crap around him because I feel disrespected and guilty.

Are these just patterns from my childhood that I am projecting onto him?  Any insight or outside perspective would be appreciated.  I feel like I need a reality check.

His mood is worse lately and I wonder if it is a reaction to me starting to become better.  As I heal I take more time for myself and the house is messier as a result and dinner is not always ready when he comes home  (he gets annoyed by this and I feel like it's the 1950s; this is how he was raised and how his dad still behaves).

[Turkish]

Are these just patterns from my childhood that I am projecting onto him?

Is this what your therapist suggested,  or is this what you think?

[GaGrl]

I can tell you that my step-daughter recognizes that both of her adult relationships have been with men that are like her uNPD/BPD mother. As she says, " I keep marrying my mother. "

Her non Dad and I support her in working through this, but she feels the pressure from her mother AND a dysfunctional relationship.

[Zabava]

Thanks Gagrl and Turkish.  Gagrl,  sounds like your step daughter has some insight into her relationship choices.  

Turkish,  my therapist listens to me and suggested that my husband depletes me by being critical and controlling.  I made the connection to past patterns after reading Pete Walker's description of triggers for emotional flashbacks  (eg.,  angry, contemptuous tone of voice).

Honestly, I feel scared and vulnerable right now.  Tonight is another night of angry, distant behaviour.  I feel like it is because I am reminded of my mum's BPD moods and I am trying to use the tools for managing emotional flashbacks. I don't know what I did wrong or how to fix it.

[once removed]

Are these just patterns from my childhood that I am projecting onto him?  Any insight or outside perspective would be appreciated.  I feel like I need a reality check.

hard to say...can you give us some examples of what things are like between the two of you when this is happening?

[Harri]

Honestly, I feel scared and vulnerable right now.  Tonight is another night of angry, distant behaviour.  I feel like it is because I am reminded of my mum's BPD moods and I am trying to use the tools for managing emotional flashbacks. I don't know what I did wrong or how to fix it.

Hot to fix what?  The reason your husband is angry and contemptuous?

[Zabava]

Yes, I guess so Harri.  I feel upset and uneasy when my husband or my kids are unhappy.  Logically I know I can't control other people's feelings but I am having trouble understanding it emotionally. As it turns out his mood had nothing to do with me and was due to work stress.

It's been a lot of up and down for me the last few weeks and I'm not sure what to do.  I think I may be getting to the feeling really bad part of the recovery process.  I am fighting every day to stay calm as I come to terms with how badly I was treated as a kid.

As I've said before, I feel sometimes I can't be redeemed or happy.  And I'm embarrassed by my self involvement.  I'm kind of tired of me.

[Zabava]

I also wonder if I'm projecting some things onto my husband that really belong to my mum.  I'm confused.  I've been getting migraines and disassociating more.  I think I might be really really angry, but anger has never been something I was allowed to express.  Do you or did you feel rage about the past?  What did you do with it?

[Harri]

Hi Zab!   

Yeah, this is a not so pleasant part of recovery.  It passes and you will get through it. 

I would say yes it sounds like you are projecting your past feelings and reactions with your mom onto your husband and kids, or at least reacting in the present based on things from the past.   It is a learned behavioral pattern.  It also indicates a level of un-differentiation IMO.   Other people can have their emotions without us fixing things for them or assuming responsibility for them.   I used to do this same thing a lot... I would get defensive and anxious assuming, while projecting, that someone was angry with me... and I would take it even further and just react and say thing...   I still sometimes have to slow down, ask myself about my reaction, what I am feeling and, if it happens with someone I feel safe with, I will ask a clarifying question (but not say anything about my struggle or that I am triggered... they don't need to know)

If you give us an example of the conversations or thoughts that run through your head like once removed said, it will make it easier to see what is going on.

Rage?  have I felt rage?  Oh yes.  Still do but it is more controlled and rational (if that makes sense at all).  Writing is a good outlet for me (nothing I would post though )  also I used to go for long walks when I could or drive fast (not recommended) eat (also not recommended).  Healthier ways is to break things.  Old china (though be careful of cuts and clean up is a pain) go to the batting cages and whack the heck out of the ball, get ice cubes and throw them against a wall or tree.  If you have a baseball bat at home beat a mattress.  You could take up boxing or running and just beat the heck out of the pavement.

 

[Zabava]

Hi Harri,

Thanks for the constructive feedback as always.  I can't think of specific examples that don't sound petty.  It is the sarcasm that is the worst. 

[Harri]

I can't think of specific examples that don't sound petty.

Did I ever tell you about the fight I got in with my mother over 1 m&m?  Yes, one single m&m.

Or when my ex and I got into a fight that lasted for days when I used the word inertia in an unexpected way?

Zab, stop doing this to yourself.  No one here is going to judge you.

[Zabava]

Harri,  I guess I do fear judgement and incidentally, I think it is part of my difficulty dealing with my husband.  I have always felt one down and like I should be grateful that anyone cares.  Seriously, when I met him I was so grateful that anyone liked me that I really tried to hide my past and try to be what I thought he wanted.

In a way, he has given me the stability I never had, but the price has been heavy sometimes.

An example is that when the credit card bill comes he demands that I explain and justify every purchase.  He says he is just checking for accuracy, but to me it feels incredibly demeaning. 

He also laughs if I say I am tired from my work.  I work at a school part-time and am also doing volunteer hours towards an apprenticeship in early childhood education, plus I am taking a full course load at college for my ede diploma. He says ir's not a real job and the school is taking advantage of me.  For context my work with kids pulled me out of a deep depression and sustains me in my recovery by giving me purpose and community.  When he scoffs it hurts and takes me back to my childhood when my mum mocked my interests and friends.

Btw  m&ms are serious business

[Harri]

Hi Zab!

Okay, none of what you describe here sounds pleasant!  I would not want to be on the receiving end of that either.  The hard part for me would be trying to separate out how much of my feelings are related to the past vs. the present, which I think would impact how I want to respond.   I am not saying that what your husband does by laughing when you say you are tired or asking you to justify your credit purchases are okay or not.  I am looking at this from a place where emotions are not primary in determining how I might respond in the present.  Your feelings are important and significant and I do not mean to minimize them.

Question:  how do you respond when he does these things?  I mean verbally, or with your actions?  Emotionally, do you immediately withdraw?

What do you think would be the best most centered way you could respond?  By centered I mean being in a space where you are aware of your emotions but they are not directing your response.

[Zabava]

That's a hard question Harri, but really a key one.  I think maybe I'm not there yet in terms of emotional regulation.  I tend to respond by withdrawing because if I get angry it only escalates.  I

I have to think about this more.  I had an aha moment with my T. a few days ago when she suggested that maybe I have been projecting some of my abandonment issues onto my husband and creating distance by not sharing much about my past.  I see that and at the same time my kids complain and my friends comment that my husband seems angry alot and that he talks to me in a disrespectful way.  I don't think he has any idea that others perceive him this way and I think a lot of it comes from anxiety. 

I am open to suggestions about a more centred way to respond. 

[Harri]

I think maybe I'm not there yet in terms of emotional regulation.  I tend to respond by withdrawing because if I get angry it only escalates.

Okay, I get this too.  How can you break this down and approach learning a new way that is manageable?  What happens when you get angry?  What sort of things do you say and do?  BTW, I have no answers here and am just sort of thinking out loud with you.

I have to think about this more.  I had an aha moment with my T. a few days ago when she suggested that maybe I have been projecting some of my abandonment issues onto my husband and creating distance by not sharing much about my past.

  I think a lot of us struggle with that.  I know I did and do still sometimes.  What is real for the present and what is from the past?   I know you have been reading some of Pete Walker.  He has an article on The Outer Critic that I think you might find helpful.  Of course, run all of this by your T too.

I see that and at the same time my kids complain and my friends comment that my husband seems angry alot and that he talks to me in a disrespectful way.  I don't think he has any idea that others perceive him this way and I think a lot of it comes from anxiety.

  He could very well be feeling anxious.  He could have attachment issues, communication difficulties and other things that affect him.  It is not uncommon for people to get into relationships with others who are on a similar emotional level even though the behaviors may appear very different.  Everyone has something they are dealing with right?  Not defending him here though.  We all are responsible for our behaviors no matter how we came to be how we are right?

I am open to suggestions about a more centred way to respond.

Oooh!  me too!  Let's keep talking and see what we come up with. 

BTW, I am glad you opened up and shared.   

[Zabava]

 :help:feeling overwhelmed

[Harri]

What's going on?

Breathe. 

[Turkish]

When he scoffs it hurts and takes me back to my childhood when my mum mocked my interests and friends.

My mother wasn't overly mocking me,  but she dismissed any positive things I said about others (friends, teachers) such that I stopped sharing.  I felt it wasn't safe for me to share. 

Decades later, my ex demeaned me in ways that brought old emotions to the surface.  It felt impossible to seperate valid, current feelings from those I carried with me, unaware.  I felt with my ex that it also wasn't safe to share.

How are you feeling overwhelmed currently?

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Zabava, 

  to you this day! Sometimes it's good to start out the day with a compassionate hug.

Your posts are quite familiar to me, so much so that I could have written them! I went back to school when I was 46, and the door to learning and some self validation was flung wide open. I loved the learning and I found out that I was pretty intelligent too, and that surprised me. You are exploring new things. Do you feel that you are perhaps cracking open the door and finding that you aren't who others have defined you as being, such as your husband and your mom?

I certainly grasp that unsettlednes, the internal dialog of not doing things right, of getting it wrong once again and the panic of will-I-ever-get-this-right kind of feeling.

What is 'lil Zabava feeling, the little one that you were but still may be inside? If you took time to ask your younger you how she is feeling today, how old would she be and what would she say about the school program you are in, for example?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts! Hang in there today. Only focus on the today in your life because there are a myriad of things that will gradually fall into place one by one.

 
Wools

[Zabava]

Harri, I felt overwhelmed and scared last night after reading Judith Herman's book Trauma and Recovery, specifically the chapter about survivors of child abuse.  It hit me hard because she described my childhood self so accurately.  I was self harming from an early age, I ran away at age 9 and again at 12.  I have large chunks of lost time from my childhood and adolescence, and a long history of mental illness and inadequate treatment and misdiagnosis.  I think the latter was upsetting to me because I have a lot of shame about being a chronic psychiatric patient.

[Libra]

Hi Zabava,

The hardest part is when the people closest to us end up triggering and hurting us, even if it's unintentional. 

I have similar reactions towards my husband when I feel criticised or attacked: I withdraw, because my inner world is a turmoil and I cannot express it in such a way that it wouldn't escalate. I do have endless discussions with him in my head at such times. It can go on for hours. Sometimes it helps me regulate my inner chaos, and then it calms me, but it leaves DH frustrated and at a loss of what is going on.

I am now trying to use these internal discussions as a means to untangle the inner turmoil and to understand what I am feeling and what was the cause. It is starting to work sometimes. I then try to use this information to convey to DH that something triggered me and that I am struggling. This is not an instant thing. It can take half a day or more before I get to a point where I can verbalise something to him this way. It feels like a leap of faith every time I do. It also feels like a small victory once I've done it. It prevents me from bottling everything up, it builds a stronger understanding between us, and it shows I am not trying to shut him out.

I would also get in a huff if my husband were to ask for justification for credit card purchases, even if it is solely for checking accuracy. This is something you could change together though. You know it will happen again. How could you communicate that this bothers you, in a constructive way?



Libra. 

[Zabava]

Thanks for your relies Woolspinner and Libra.  I have been reading about the outer critic and trying to consider how my reaction to my dhs criticism has been shaped by my childhood.  It sucks.  I sometimes feel that I am incapable of having healthy relationships.  It makes me sad.  Libra, I relate to what you say about ruminating and withdrawing.  How do you pull yourself out of it? 

Woolspinner you help me feel better.  What helps you stay hopeful for the future.  I am struggling with this at the moment.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi again Zabava

It's always nice to hear from you and to catch up on how you are doing. What was your day like? Can you share something positive that you learned or noticed or experienced today?

I think it's really important as we travel this bumpy road to take time to focus on something positive. That is what helps me to stay hopeful. I'll share something from my day that was positive to give you an illustration.

I do far better at caring for others than I do for myself. It's much easier now, and has been for many years, to focus on what others need. So I am in the thick of it, this learning to turn my gaze towards myself and put some of that energy towards self care and not care taking of others. It is a challenge. To put it bluntly, it's almost impossible for me so far. Sure I can do the simple things, but I'm far enough along in my journey that now it is time to focus on deeper changes. Today I realized that I was feeling 'scattered,' for lack of a better term, and I also recognized that I felt rather like I did when I was a teenager. The feeling was 'familiar' to me, that I have been in this emotional place before. The positive from my day is that I recognized it, how I was feeling! I picked up on it within a few hours, where before it was days.

It's not helpful for me to focus on how long it took me to see it, or how hard it is for me to try and care for myself. It's far more productive and healing for me to meet a need my inner self has to focus on the positive. Can you think of something, no matter how small?

 
Wools

[Zabava]

Hi Wools,

Here's my moment of optimism...Today was kindergarten graduation at the school where I work and volunteer.  It was so lovely and life affirming to watch the kids perform songs and poems and watch a slide show of the school year.  I have really been blessed to be part of these little lives. I cried along with the teachers and parents and it was OK. 

The kindies remind me to live in the moment and they bring me joy.

[Woolspinner2000]

Oh! That is a lovely moment of positivity (new word I made up   )!

Thank you for sharing this! You can hold this special memory in your heart and go to the place of remembering it any time you need a positive relaxing moment.

 
Wools

[Harri]

Hi Zab!  I have this horrible habit of messing with peoples names.  Do you mind?  I mean it affectionately and will stop if you do not like it.

I love kids, and imagining little kids in caps and gown while singing?   

How are you doing now? 

I think what Wools asks here is important to consider.  When she asks me this sort of question, I step back and get in touch with Little Harri (when I can) and it helps me understand and have compassion for myself.

Wools: What is 'lil Zabava feeling, the little one that you were but still may be inside? If you took time to ask your younger you how she is feeling today, how old would she be and what would she say about the school program you are in, for example?

Are you able to get in touch with her?

Libra: I am now trying to use these internal discussions as a means to untangle the inner turmoil and to understand what I am feeling and what was the cause. It is starting to work sometimes. I then try to use this information to convey to DH that something triggered me and that I am struggling.

Is this something you would eventually like to try doing?  We can help you build to that point (it will take time).

 

[Zabava]

Hi Harri,

I am doing OK.  I have been trying to have more compassion for my husband and understand where he"s coming from. 

As for little Zab (btw I love having a nickname). she would be happy.about my school.program.  I used to tell my mum I wanted to have six kids just like my Granny.

I loved my Granny because she showed all of us grandkids unconditional love.  Also she was a very optimistic person who loved life. 

I would like to be more.open with my husband but I am scared because I am afraid my past is too.dark for him. 

I am also afraid.of.my own capacity for despair.  I know I'm being dramatic, but I know.myself.and worriesy that I will.get.lost in the process of remembering.and grieving.

Which is why I am scared of connecting to little Zab.

Last time I visited.my childhood home I had a.dream/delusion that I saw a ghost of myself as a little girl and it was very scary and unsettling.

[Harri]

Hi Zab!

It is great that you had your Granny and that you can remember her love.  Are you able to tap into your memories of how that love felt and use it as a way to help you realize, or begin to realize, that you were worthy, lovable and precious as a child (and today too!  )? Or do you withdraw from that too?

One thing I have learned is that I tend to want to wait until I feel ready to do something like that.  The thing is, if we wait, chances are we will never get there.  Love like you experienced from your g-ma can be uncomfortable and even hurt when it is in such conflict with our own false beliefs.  It can be scary to embrace it.  Is that going on for you or am I way off?  Just thinking out loud with you.

I would like to be more.open with my husband but I am scared because I am afraid my past is too.dark for him. 

What does he know about you?  I started a thread a while back about my own red flags and got some fantastic responses.  I am still working out how much to share with others.  Not casual acquaintances but mope intimate friends, not even romantic.  I think the replies I got apply to al relationship though so I am linking that thread here in case you want to read it.  It might help put things in perspective, at least in terms of the practical aspects of sharing.  Having trust issues will make it hard for you to be vulnerable and feel safe sharing.  I think that is a common side effect of child abuse like you experienced.  anyway, here is the thread:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327870.0  I don't know that anything there will help you with your husband but I hope it might help you see your challenges (red flags) a bit differently.   

Last time I visited.my childhood home I had a.dream/delusion that I saw a ghost of myself as a little girl and it was very scary and unsettling.

Was it a dream or were you awake?  I had some pretty strong experiences with little Harri when I first started working on me.  I could *feel* her and almost see her walking beside me, reaching up and holding my hand and I would slow my walk for her and hold my hand so she could reach it without stretching too much.  That is just one example.  I told my T and she was happy and thrilled.  Seeing her react like that made me know it was okay.  I was scared I was losing my mind for a while there.  I have read that some people who are processing and working through sexual abuse trauma will wake up sucking their thumb.  It makes me cry to even think about that. 

Again, I am not trying to minimize or ignore your fears.  They are real and I accept them and you.  When you talk with your T about this sort of thing what does she say?

[Zabava]

Harri,

I was tossing and turning but not sleeping.  I  saw her and felt her tap me on the shoulder and heard her say my name.  I felt like she was telling me to go.  I know it sounds crazy.  I think it is all part of my mind coping but I am scared of losing my grip on reality. 

Thank you for sharing your thread.  I am still processing all of it.  I feel like you understand how hard it is to disassociate and have had similar experiences seeing "ghosts" from the past. 

Thank you so much for sharing your story with me.  It helps me keep going.

My therapist thinks I need to allow myself to be angry and grieve.  She also says that my childhood home is a physical reminder of the abuse I experienced and the depression I felt as a child.

[Harri]

 

It sounds like you were in that in between state of sleep and awake. My mind plays all sorts of tricks on me then too and I think it is pretty common.  Not an indicator of losing your mind at all.  The time I described to you I was wide awake and shopping at Pier 1 imports.   
 

I know it sounds crazy.  I think it is all part of my mind coping but I am scared of losing my grip on reality.

  It does not sound crazy to me at all.   It sounds like a normal-ish (can't find the right word) experience and your fears are making it bigger.  I am not judging that though.  Our brains will do all sorts of things to have things make sense to us, even to the point of coming to false conclusions, filling in missing pieces etc.  It wants things to make sense.

I feel like you understand how hard it is to disassociate and have had similar experiences seeing "ghosts" from the past.

I think we do share a lot of experiences.  Certainly shame and beating ourself up!  Taht is the beauty of this place.  You can share in a safe place and get other eyes on it and change your perspective... and take that leap of letting go of the fear.