Dysregulation: Was it me? Was it normal? Was it mental illness?

[Depression = 72% of members]

The question we all have and I have rarely seen it answered well is

Was it me? Was it normal? Was it mental illness?

Don't we really need  to understand this question to make any sense of our life, what happened, how we need to deal with it, what we need to know about relationships going forward.  Clearly some of the things reported on this board are mental illness, some is just bad relationship stuff, and some is things we should have known better or handled differently.

Let's start with Emotional dysregulation (ED) - a term used in the mental health community to refer to an emotional response that is poorly modulated, and do not fall within the conventionally accepted range of emotive response. ED is also referred to as labile mood or mood swings.

Rage is one type of dysregulation and is sometimes referred to as Temper Dysregulation.  Examples include positive mood and negative mood, suicidality, anxiety, fear, mood cycling, sleep/circadian rhythm disturbance, appetite dyscontrol, and motivation.

Let's talk about it - ask questions, or share your expertise, or share examples.

[Skip]

The question we all have and I have rarely seen it answered well is

Was it me? Was it normal? Was it mental illness?

Don't we really need  to understand this question to make any sense of our life, what happened, how we need to deal with it, what we need to know about relationships going forward.  Clearly some of the things reported on this board are mental illness, some is just bad relationship stuff, and some is things we should have known better or handled differently.

Let's start with Emotional dysregulation (ED) - a term used in the mental health community to refer to an emotional response that is poorly modulated, and do not fall within the conventionally accepted range of emotive response. ED is also referred to as labile mood or mood swings.

Rage is one type of dysregulation and is sometimes referred to as Temper Dysregulation.  Examples include positive mood and negative mood, suicidality, anxiety, fear, mood cycling, sleep/circadian rhythm disturbance, appetite dyscontrol, and motivation.

Let's talk about it - ask questions, or share your expertise, or share examples.

[Butane]

The question we all have and I have rarely seen it answered well is

Was it me? Was it normal? Was it mental illness?

Don't we really need  to understand this question to make any sense of our life, what happened, how we need to deal with it...

Let's talk about it - ask questions, or share your expertise, or share examples.

I was at the 2nd visit with my new T today. First I spent 5 minutes telling her her what I am doing to look after myself (diary, short term goals, working through Dr. S. Stosny's book "Living and Loving After Betrayal: How to heal from emotional abuse, deceit, infidelity and chronic resentment".

Then I told her that my goal for the rest of the session was to ask the questions your post poses: "Was it me? Was it normal? Was it mental illness"

Specifically, I needed to tell her (tell someone!) the strange, upsetting, bizarre things that happened to me, and happened to my relationship with my H (dPTSD uBPD). When he wanted something, he was often able to convince me that it was logical, and if I didn't agree right away, that I was "difficult" or "always the same, never any different!" I wanted to be obliging and often went along with things, but later would think "this makes no sense! Is something wrong with me?".

For example, he decided that we should buy a new home after we'd been separated and our old, beautiful property had been sold in a dramatic rush, to make things up to me upon planning to reconcile. He took me to see one place, would absolutely NOT hear of seeing more places, and before you know it we were the co-owners of a new house. I went along with it all, including a mortgage type I didn't want. I let him lead because I know it makes him happy, and am pretty timid these days. When I step back, I think, wait, this isn't a "normal" way to buy a house.

I really, really needed her to tell me that this is not the way psychologically healthy people do things. She did. It was very helpful, and is something I need to hear often these days, since I have lived with dysfunctional behaviours around me for so long. I am also seeing my part in the dysfunctional dynamic - I became a doormat. H treated me very badly. I see now how he struggles to think clearly and behaves impulsively and irrationally. He is responsible for hurting me. And as unfair as it may be, I am responsible for fixing me. I myself do not suffer from a mental illness, but I have suffered great psychological harm, and only I can repair it.

[HopelessBroken]

I honestly think about these three questions every day. I was blamed for everything and told no one will want me and so I’ve developed a complex that I’m a horrible partner and not good enough. That it’s me. The problems are all me. I’m too friendly, I’m a perfectionist, I talk down to him, I’m a liar, I’m a whore, I have too many friends, I care too much what others think, I have too stressful of a job, I never processed stressful events of my past, I didn’t get divorced soon enough, I don’t sleep with him enough, I don’t talk about my feelings enough, I seriously felt like a needed an outline to keep all my flaws in order.

I thought things honestly were normal. That’s how desensitized and brainwashed I had become. Cheating, verbal abuse, emotional abuse, stalking, threatening, then loving, projection, accusations, gaslighting, then loving, more cheating, more abuse, isolation, blaming, emotional blackmail, threatening suicide..nine breakups...AND I THINK THIS IS NORMAL?

The mental illness part I struggle with. He’s highly educated, can be so normal for months at a time, had to pass a psych for his job, high functioning. I struggle that he is actually mentally ill. Despite his therapist telling me “ he has BPD” and him agreeing with every simptom in the DSM, I still don’t believe it.

[itsmeSnap]

From my BPDexf experience:
Was it me? It was both of us
Was it normal? Not really, but also not entirely "abnormal", too much of a normal reaction is more like it
Was it mental illness? I think so, she knew about it, she was concerned by it, so probably yes.

some is just bad relationship stuff, and some is things we should have known better or handled differently.

This!

Because whether or not our partners/exes really are BPD or not, having good relationship skills and then BPD-upgrading those skills I think a good approach.

Maybe we also need some "basics of human emotional responses" and "relationships 101" type resources and not just mental health/personality disorders stuff so we can compare what is normal vs what is "dysregulated/dysfunctional"?

[Scarlet Phoenix]

The question we all have and I have rarely seen it answered well is

Was it me? Was it normal? Was it mental illness?

Ah, do I ever recognise those. I was clearly struggling with differentiating between normal and abnormal behaviour during our relationship, as my perception of normal was pushed little by little. After a while it was all muddled for me. Obviously big things like threatening me with violence and screaming an inch from my face is not normal. But there were lots of smaller behaviours on both our sides that I got so used to. In the end, I think most of how we functioned together wasn't normal.

For the last two questions, I saw them as either-or. Either it was me, or my ex had a mental illness. As he has a diagnosis, I felt more secure in my knowledge that it wasn't me. That's not true, though. Of course it was me, too. So my answers are "yes, it was me", "no, it was't normal" (the relationship wasn't normal, my ex's behaviour wasn't normal and my behaviour wasn't normal) and "yes, it was mental illness".
I think that in most cases, it's not only a question of mental illness. It's complex.

Let's start with Emotional dysregulation (ED) ...
Rage is one type of dysregulation and is sometimes referred to as Temper Dysregulation.  Examples include positive mood and negative mood, suicidality, anxiety, fear, mood cycling, sleep/circadian rhythm disturbance, appetite dyscontrol, and motivation.

My ex experienced explosive rage, rapid mood swings, hyper-sensitivity, high anxiety (fear of abandonment, feelings of not existing)
As for me, I experienced, and somewhat still do, hyper-sensitivity, high anxiety, appetite dyscontrol (emotional eater) and sleep disturbance.

It's interesting to see that where somewhat similar when in comes to emotional dysregulation. I was just more quiet and controlled than him.

ETA:
I did experience real rage once, it was frighting. The pure hate in the moment, it was all I could do to control myself. Awful. I brought it up with my therapist after.

This is a great topic, looking forward to read other responses.

Scarlet

[Scarlet Phoenix]

For example, he decided that we should buy a new home after we'd been separated and our old, beautiful property had been sold in a dramatic rush, to make things up to me upon planning to reconcile. He took me to see one place, would absolutely NOT hear of seeing more places, and before you know it we were the co-owners of a new house. I went along with it all, including a mortgage type I didn't want.

Butane, I had a very similar experience and I went along with buying a terrain and building a house even though I didn't even want to. It sounds like you have a great therapist!

Maybe we also need some "basics of human emotional responses" and "relationships 101" type resources and not just mental health/personality disorders stuff so we can compare what is normal vs what is "dysregulated/dysfunctional"?

That's a good idea, Snap! I regularly catch myself anticipating a certain reaction from others, and then they don't react that way. And only after do I realise that what I expect as normal, is dysfunctional or dysregulated.

[Wicker Man]

Was it me? Was it normal? Was it mental illness?

Emotional dysregulation... (and other dysfunctional coping mechanisms).  

My relationship was brief -perhaps 18 months in all.  Within this time I experienced three types of, what I believe, were symptoms of mental illness and dysfunctional emotional states:  Rage, dyspohria, and disassociation.  

Her raging began, from what I understand, very early in our relationship perhaps in our second week.  She was suffering from retroactive jealousy I.e she was tortured by the idea of someone I had been in a relationship with well before I knew her.  

Unfortunately, I knew of this phenomenon from a previous relationship -apparently someone suffering from retroactive jealousy will literally feel you have betrayed them -it is incredibly painful.  This became problematic for me because it allowed me to 'justify' her raging.  We would all call this a 'red flag', but my sympathy and compassion for her pain blinded me to the dysfunction or a hair trigger temperament.

I believe some level of codependency and enmeshment are necessary in a loving relationship -however too much of a good thing will lead to disaster.  I.e. enabling, an unbalanced relationship, and ultimately emotional hardship.  When she raged I listened, didn't take any of the vitriol personally and did my best to find out what her message was.  Rage is fear based, I knew she was hurting and lashing out because of pain -I never 'returned fire'.  When someone is in diffuse physiologic arousal their limbic system is in overdrive and they simply and literally cannot hear you -there is no point in fighting back.  Fighting back is like adding energy to a destructive harmonic -it just makes more.  When in diffuse physiologic arousal the frontal cortex is being trumped by the impulse for  basic survival -fight, flight, freeze  -- a hormonal limbic feed back loop.  I did my best to not reward her for raging -but perhaps I was enabling(?).  I would always talk to her about her rage after she was in a better sate.  I don't know how I could have done better.

I cared for her deeply and did my best to help ease her pain -however... I had only one drop dead boundary in our relationship  I had stated this clearly and literally word for word the first time she 'broke up' with me over the phone -I think this was about week 4.  I told her, on this first occurrence, 'I will miss you' -she snapped 180˚ and recanted. I then explained -breaking up was not a lever, tool, nor a negotiation tactic.   She crossed this line twice more and ultimately we fell victim to the 'three strikes law'.  I agreed to her 'final request for dissolution' -by request I mean she was shouting into the phone 'We have nothing more to talk about'.  The first time was silly, the second was a ghosting / cheating, and the third and final break up was a stress induced seven day rage (over a house I was about to buy for her and her family). ugh...

I only saw dysphoria once.  It was a near catatonic depression where she was all but non-verbal.  In retrospect I suspect she had done something harmful to our relationship and the shame of it dropped her into a negative spiral.  NSSI (non-suicidal self injury) was much more common for her than dysphoria.  She was a cutter, once again, I believe after cheating on us she would cut herself.  

I actually gained some traction with her NSSI telling her I felt I understood her cutting.  She immediately flared into rage (stick to the classics) -I explained in the past I had gone running to displace emotional pain with physical pain.  I felt the mechanism was similar (years ago a young friend died suddenly and I ran nearly 20 miles -it helped).  I explained the difference between our coping mechanisms being my way was socially acceptable -and healthier (jogging shoes rather than razor blade).   I suggested she try to find a better way of self soothing (rubber band, ice cube, watching a movie, calling me).  She had stopped cutting by the time we parted ways -I was proud of this.

Disassociation took the most patients.  When under crushing stress she would have delusions E.g. the rocks and trees gave her a secret mission -a mission I could not understand.  She regularly heard voices, but when life came off the rails (Ironically, brought on by cheating -see the theme?) she could have full blown psychotic episodes.  I guess I got lucky with my gut instinct -my approach was to tell her I even though I could not understand I loved her and would be here to support her in any way I could.  I fell into S.E.T.  I guess it was a skill learned from dealing with high-strung artists most of my career.  

Was it me?  Honestly, as I look back at our relationship the only thing I would have changed about my behavior was getting into the relationship in the first place (it was an affair -which is a horrible idea).  Within the context of our relationship I believe I was a dream date -I did everything I said I would in the timetable I had promised -I never lied to her nor gave her cause to doubt me.  

She had been (I believe) misdiagnosed as schizophrenic and bi-polar, this is an honest mistake the CCMD (Chinese DSM) does not recognize BPD as a disorder.  This is ironic because I believe China, culturally and socially, is an incubator for creating BPD in young women.  Women are devalued and it is all too common for young married couples to drop their child off with the grandparents and not look back. (Her grandmother told her 'your parents divorced because you were born a girl'.  She also remembers the discussion about leaving her in the snow to die after her father left. -we were not in Kansas anymore).

I took her diagnosis at face value.  From what I knew of schizophrenia a nurturing, stable and loving home environment is curative.  Bi-polar I figured just took a thick skin and a lot of patients.  This is all well and good, but not with all the King's horses and all the King's men can one keep a relationship healthy with someone who is undiagnosed and unaware of their BPD traits.  I was in love and wanted to try to build a life with her -problems and all, but it was doomed to failure.

I feel it is on the fringe of the question Skip posted for the thread, but I would like to mention what is, in my opinion, the most mystifying and destructive coping mechanism she had which was the lack of object consistency or permanence.  She could literally forget about us.  If she was drinking it was guaranteed.  Drinking was, I believe, the one thing she accepted responsibility and accountability for during our time together.  We both stopped drinking for a year.  I had explained to her nearly all of our 'troubles' occurred when she had been drinking.  When one's partner cannot remember without distortion the interactions with their loved ones there is no chance of building a 'love map' (Gottman term) which is a necessary foundation when the going gets tough in life.

With all of this mayhem the question of why was this relationship interesting to me comes to mind.  Ironically, it was her hypersensitivity which I found intoxicating.  She experiences the world with a near magical point of view -she lives with one foot in reality and the other in a fantasy world.  Art effects her deeply -we would talk for hours about movies, music, or other art and I would learn so much.  Empathy was her super power -she could feel other people's emotions to the point where it appears to approach mind reading.  I said ironically because I believe it was her hyper-sensitivity as a little girl which brought on her horrible coping mechanisms -life is, in my opinion, too much for her.  She is a victim of her torrent of emotions.

The net result was we tore each other's hearts out.  Four months into no contact she had my surname tattooed on her hand.  Recently I learned she is using my surname on one of her social media accounts.  The delusion makes me so sad for her.  This 'devotion' to our now long dead relationship is in my opinion the same mechanism which lead to our end -horrendously dysfunctional coping mechanisms and an inability to perceive the world in a consistent manner without distortion.

What I believe was normal friction in our relationship was her almost comical unwillingness to do anything I asked whether big or small.  This isn't dysfunctional, it is garden variety laziness meets selfish willfulness -just bad habits from past relationships and having been a spoiled yet abuse little girl.  However, garden variety disagreements were far and away over shadowed by, what in my unprofessional opinion, was mental illness.  We were overwhelmed by her coping mechanisms to the point where we didn't have space for 'normal' issues.

From my anecdotal experience the term borderline fits better than Emotionally unstable personality disorder -EUPD which I have read some people suffering from BPD prefer.  I feel I was with someone literally on the border between psychosis and neurosis.  As my therapist said when someone experiences psychotic episodes... well... they are psychotic...  I am not qualified to diagnose her, I am only qualified to have deep pity for this tortured soul.  

As sad as I am for her I am deeply thankful I stuck to my guns on my 'no breakups' boundary.  I really had no idea what I was dealing with and continuing in the relationship would have very likely ended life as I know it.

[I Am Redeemed]

Was it me

I thought a lot of it was, for a long time. I thought that it was up to me to manage things so he wouldn't get so mad. I second guessed and doubted myself a lot. There were also times when I got dysregulated myself, out of frustration, exhaustion, and stress, and I contributed to the escalation of a rage plenty of times by throwing my anger on top of the bonfire of emotions. I built up plenty of resentment and contempt, and there were many times that I didn't even try to hide it.

Was it normal

No. I always knew it wasn't. The level of anger proportionate to the situation was nowhere near the level of anger actually expressed. Mildly irritating things could set off a yelling, destructive rampage. The problem with me was that I was used to "not normal", even though I desperately longed for "normal".

Was it mental illness

Yes. A lot of it, especially the rages. I say that because most of the raging seemed to be triggered by his perception of a situation that was not based in reality. He was suspicious, paranoid, delusional, even, at times, and this was compounded by his substance abuse disorder, which is a mental disorder in itself that causes irrational thoughts, obsessive thoughts, and the compulsion to act on those thoughts.

[gotbushels]

Thanks all for sharing your experience.

I seriously felt like a needed an outline to keep all my flaws in order.

I appreciate this. I remember what this was like and I share your frustration.

...AND I THINK THIS IS NORMAL?

I know what you mean. At some point past 3 breakups I think all of us become desensitised to the idea that breaking-up is not a typical response to an argument.



Using Skip's definition here:

(ED) - a term used in the mental health community to refer to an emotional response that is poorly modulated, and do not fall within the conventionally accepted range of emotive response.

Dysregulation to me was a driver of the arguments in my relationship with my UexBPDgf. Narrowly, our circular arguments had two drivers:

1) Her emotional dysregulation.
2) My absence of understanding of my short term best actions (validate, then proceed) and mid term best actions (assess choice of stay or get out, then proceed).

Frequency of argument; probably once a week for a measurement period of 12 months.

Duration; could be anywhere from an hour to six hours.

At the end of the exchange period, her continual emotional distress could probably simmer on the "back burner" for a few days or weeks. I won't embellish how I know this.



Example argument:

No matter what I do, I just can’t please my girlfriend. If I tell her it's a good idea for her to stay in this weekend, she accuses me of “controlling her.” If I ask her to go out and stick to the limit of alcohol we agreed to (my attempted caregiving the 'grey area'), she says I'm “abandoning her.” In both cases, somehow I may be cheating on her.

I used Kreger and Shirley's workbook to format this. To make my answer less general, I want to answer the questions in the context of the example.

Was it me— Yes, based on what I used to do. This was my contribution: I calmly and rationally explain her inconsistent logic. She must see that this inconsistency is confusing and is causing problems for us.

We know today that trying to out-logic a dysregulated person is like trying to throw water on a chemical fire. So what I did wasn't wrong, it wasn't bad, it was probably normal, it was probably 'natural', so I think there's no shame in saying this was my contribution. Going further—I also notice a lot of healthy people and parents (coincidence?) try to advise-away or logic-away a problem.

[and would it be me today]? My role was that I didn't understand what BPD was. From there, I comprehended my emotional strengths and weaknesses, and—in the hope to never find myself in that situation again—I made a concerted effort to improve everything on my side of the fence. "As a dog returns to his own vomit, So a fool repeats his folly."

Was it normal? No.

Was it mental illness? Only a P can diagnose her. While it gave me some pleasure to define, ruminate, and perhaps fantasise just how incapacitated my ex was—the experience contributed to my considering my long term goals. Getting those long term goals meant proficiency in the skills, accepting the lighthouse, and taking care of myself. On the other side of the sword—Bowen's idea on the matching of emotional equals implies to us that the 'sicker' our partners were, then the more emotionally immature we were.


I hope you're all enjoying your peace.

[gotbushels]

I'm bumping this up because I'd like a response from the community on this topic.

It's a very important topic. I think it's important because dysregulation contributes a large proportion of energy burned from our side during a relationship with a BP.

Understanding with a clear basis of what dysregulation is, and how it affected our relational lives with our BP-traited partners; this knowledge will only be useful to us as we seek to improve our relational lives. Knowing these things takes us from things like commiseration, anger, and self-pity into a place where we take the helm with our own shortcomings to be a better prospect to healthier partners.

I hope to hear more from the community on this.

Enjoy your weekend.

[JNChell]

This is a good topic. A must, really. We spend a lot of time talking about others. That has its place. This is a good thread to talk about ourselves.

Me personally: Was it mental illness? Yes. I’m diagnosed with C-PTSD. I have an anxiety disorder and I have been very reactive. I was very high on the spectrum for my condition, but not so much now.

I raged when I couldn’t handle being raged at anymore. I lost my cool. I’m getting better at not reacting. I think more before I react.

My reactions were dysregulations. Emotional flashbacks. Panic attacks. Call it what you will. They were trauma responses that induced a great amount of anxiety in the moment. More than I could handle, so I raged back. I believe that I was protecting my inner child. I also believe that I am emotionally underdeveloped due to childhood trauma. I think that is changing, though. I’m aware and working.

We have to look inside of ourselves to truly know why. Good bump, GB

[Longterm]

WAS IT ME.

No. If it was me then things would have gone very differently. Once she got rid of the "monster" she would have rebuilt in a constructive way, the kids would have been the priority and she would no longer do drugs (she did drugs because she couldn't cope with me). As you all know, she set up home with a rapist, has never put the kids first and does drugs/drink more than ever, has at least 3 failed jobs in this time too. Now living with her mother and acting/acted in many many dysfunctional ways, even a suicide attempt. On the other hand, I left with my clothes and my daughter and was living in a room. I saved thousands for a bigger place and achieved my goal. I am still in the same job and have improved my wage and position since the split, I am a key holder now too. EVERYTHING I promised the kids I have delivered on. I knew that the last 2yrs I was drinking more (only weekends when around her) so I sought help for it. I'm not trying to take away from people that find it hard but it was very easy for me to not drink once I was away from her. I am to this day still sober and very rarely tempted, whenever I am tempted it's because she has done something. Today is Sunday morning and as I sit here typing this I have my children around me eating breakfast, everybody is relaxed. There is no shouting, no anxiety, no fear. It wasn't me, the part that I played was enabling her to treat me and the kids the way she did. Me trying the fix the broken, achieve the unachievable, very egoic when you think about it. As a result, we all suffered, I'm trying to make amends.

WAS IT NORMAL.

No. It was far from normal, I just didn't see it at the time. The way she behaved and lived her life was on full display when she came back. Having that break from her and living in a more functional way highlighted this woman's issues to me. We have very different approaches to living and I knew a few weeks before the end that it just wasn't going to work. The kids and myself were on edge around her, we were becoming ill again and she was on her best behaviour most of the time. I think she knew that any direct BS would have led to an instant "get the f*k out".

WAS IT MENTAL ILLNESS.

My ex blamed me 100%, I never did this. The things she said I did/was doing was exactly what she had done/was doing. She has shown extraordinary selfishness and has never put her children first. Her abandonment of them has been truly heart breaking and ruthless. My daughter was upset and crying asking her why she did what she did, she laughed at her and said "I don't care". I could waffle on for hours about her odd behaviours and I have on other threads, I could write a library. I have concluded that it is mental illness. Many sources seem to say differing things. Some call it unstable emotions and some call it mental illness. I think a woman who does not value her children must be ill. She only wants to know them when she wants something, sad but true.

[Longterm]

The reason I never stated my reactions is because it very rarely happened. We did not argue, I never fought back, I failed to defend my self, I was a doormat and spent the whole 20yrs trying to keep her calm/happy. Any disagreements and i would go for a walk then come back and normally apologise, to think of that makes me cringe. My lack of reaction enabled her behaviour. The kids told me her and the bf constantly argued, loud shouting all the time. He is not me and is not "conditioned". A BPD will beat you down into submission and abuse you once they achieve dominance over you imo.

[Leonis]

Was it me? Was it normal? Was it mental illness?

Even today, whenever I think back, there are instances where I felt I could have done things differently. Better yet, that my actions pushed her over the edge.

The more I analyze what happened, the less normal it felt. In fact, I am still dumbfounded by the fact that someone with issues chose me.

The more I read stuff online, the more it felt like mental illness on her part. The only difference is that she was never properly diagnosed. Or if she was, I wouldn't know her medical history. One of her sisters alluded to the fact that she had tried out therapy for past issues, but felt that didn't help her all that much.

But when push come to shove, her family all testified that she did not have a mental issue and my suspicions were merely a tactic to control and manipulate her.

[Cat Familiar]

I haven’t seen my ex-husband in over 15 years, but I still get reminders of his existence when I receive a phone call from a creditor trying to track him down. I feel mostly healed from the damage inflicted in that relationship, so with that in mind, I’ll attempt to answer these questions.

Was it me? I certainly had a lot of issues when the relationship began, stemming from growing up with a helicopter BPD mom. I’d also made some bad choices and was floundering in a low paying job, shortly after graduating from college.

As far as dysregulation—no. That had nothing to do with me. He would become erratic and abusive and violent and it was unpredictable. I would cower and try not to make him angrier.

Was it normal? No. Slowly over time, he eroded my self confidence, constantly criticizing me over anything and everything. I’d been used to criticism from my mother, so I tended to look for the truth in his words, and over time, became diminished. It got to a point where I didn’t have a reference point to “normal” anymore.

Was it mental illness? Yes. He was very charismatic and could talk a good rap, but he couldn’t follow through. A lot of people didn’t see through him at first, but over time, his lack of success became more observable. Even though he had nothing really to show for it, he seemed to still have an inflated sense of self, alternating with feelings of worthlessness. And as years have gone by and my only connection with him is through searches for our names on the internet, I see evidence he’s left a trail of financial destruction wherever he’s lived.

[zachira]

Was it me? No, yet I have often fought back with my mother and siblings with BPD and NPD, and this just contributed to more emotional dysregulation on their parts and my feeling more upset.
Was it normal? No.
Was it mental illness? Absolutely. My mother and siblings go from zero to raging in seconds with often no apparent triggers. All of them suffer from depression, anxiety, and rapid mood swings. My great grandfather, and grandfather on mom's paternal side of the family seem to have had emotional dysregulation challenges as well as some other family members from that branch of the family. There are other family members from the other three branches of the family through the other three set of great grandparents that have challenges with mental health like depression, bipolar disorder, alcoholism, abusive parenting, who do not have any signs of BPD.

[hmf2234]

Was it me?

It was 100% me. When I first met her from a dating app I told her I was not interested in a relationship, yet she still forced herself into a relationship with me and it's my fault I let it happen by not putting my foot down. All the red flags were there, she fell for me hardcore and I had no idea why. I was being apathetic and cold towards her in the beginning in hopes she would just leave me because I didn't want to hurt her feelings. She was head over heels for me and she was a good person to me, and 3.5 months later she told me she had transferred to a job in CT and she starts on the 16th of January. I was not happy with this news, I thought it was way too fast for her to move in with me this early. But she already got approved for the transfer, I wasn't going to deny her since we were technically together already.
     
Fast forward 9 months later and I found out she cheated on me. I should have left then, but by that time I had started developing true feelings for her and I did not want to let her go. I gave her a chance. Outside of her infidelity, she was still so good to me. I knew she was diagnosed bi-polar and was not taking medication, and at that point I didn't even realize BPD was even a thing. I did not do any research into being with someone with mental health issues and I didn't know how to deal with her severe episodes. Eventually I started becoming annoyed with her crazy mood swings. I looked at is as something that will come to pass, and ultimately she would be fine the next day, or even a few days later. I would often say "omg, just go cry it off and sleep on it, you will literally be fine tomorrow after you get it out of your system", and she would in fact be fine and super happy the next day again. So I always brushed these episodes off which was cold of me. She needed me to be her rock and be there for her emotionally when she had those episodes. Over time she had developed resentment towards me due to this and the fact that I didn't validate her as much as she needed me to.

She always wanted to get married and she felt extremely insecure that I would not propose to her. I always felt weary after she cheated on me, I loved her but I was always questioning "when will she cheat on me again, once a cheater always a cheater" and mentally that made me uneasy about officially proposing to her. I finally bit the bullet and proposed February 2018. One week after my birthday in September she told me she put in her two weeks and she's moving back home. Being cold, not empathetic to her disorder, and not validating her day in and day out like she needed me to eventually wore her down emotionally. In her mind she felt unwanted and unloved which ultimately led to the discard. If only I educated myself and learned how to deal with her illness the outcome may have been a whole lot different.

Was it normal?

No, it was not normal. She had told me she was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder so by nature I knew nothing was going to be normal. The way she acted post breakup is what led me to believe she may be uBPD. I was still confused on the differences between bi-polar and BPD, but one thing that stood out is the manipulative behavior is not a product of a mood disorder, instead it is a product of a personality disorder. So everything that happened post breakup, the push-pull, the "i hate you, but don't leave me", the stringing along and blatant lying, constantly bringing up her resentment of the past, and one second she was back in love with me again and another she hated me, black/white stages, immediately clinging onto the next man who gave her a dose of attention, and impulsively moving across the country for a man she only saw a handful of times just a month before. All of this led me to believe BPD is a strong probability.

Was it Mental illness?

That goes without question. Now that I'm thinking about it, 6 months into our relationship (and 3 months of us living together), I went on a 5 day vacation in the smokey mountains of NC. It was a yearly pilgrimage we did with the car club I am a member of. She did not come because she could not get time off from work. It is a 14 hour drive from where I live so I left at 4am. She calls me around 5am crying hysterically and saying "I cannot believe you really left me, how could you do this to me. I was never alone like this before. How can you do this to someone you claim you love!". SO for the entire 14 hours she called almost every hour crying to me about how I left her and that I didn't really love her. I knew this was not normal, I was only going for 5 days. There is no reason why anyone should be this hysterical about being left alone for 5 days. It was a huge red flag that I simply brushed off "its females being crazy females". Wish I knew the things I knew now.

[Starfire]

Was it me?
Well, yeah, kinda. At least in that my personality and my lifestyle were pretty big triggers for him. I knew this fairly early on (even before I knew about BPD), and I attempted to have what I thought was a mature conversation about how I might not be the right person for him since I seemed to cause so much despair in his life and that I was not willing to make the changes he would need me to make.  For instance, I was not willing to give up my career.  This was the first big abandonment trigger.  While I thought I was having a logical look at a realistic topic for two people very early in a relationship... he was already desperately in love, couldn't live without me, and had just been abandoned by the one person in the world who could fill the emptiness in him.

Was it normal?
It was normal for him.  It had been normal for my mother during her life. Some of it felt normal for me because of my family of origin. On the spectrum of mature, well-adjusted adult behavior, though, it was definitely not average.

Was it mental illness?
Yes. He was diagnosed BPD fairly early in life.  I never learned exactly what age because the story changed many times, but it was probably early 20s. It was interesting how I came to know this. After I convinced him to attend therapy with me, my own therapist suggested BPD tendencies could be in play. My ex only told me about his diagnosis much later when our relationship was on its very last breath. I sometimes wonder if things would have gone differently had I known from the beginning.

Regarding dysregulation, it was sometimes surprising to me how predictable he was. For instance, I could always count on a frantic and hostile phone call on my commute to work every single Monday morning. The simple act of me returning to work after a weekend would send him spiraling. Also, if I traveled for business or we spent any time together with my son or if we took a trip together somewhere that he couldn't bring marijuana with which to self-medicate.  There were definitely things that I couldn't predict would be triggers.  It could literally be anything, but I absolutely knew that he'd dysregulate every 3-5 days.  Like clockwork.

[gotbushels]

JNChell   

Wow that's a lot of things JNChell.

It's hard being highly reactive. From time to time, things set me off, but thankfully I almost never explode like I did last time. I think that's a good sign and I enjoy your good company that things have improved for us since those times.

I also believe that I am emotionally underdeveloped due to childhood trauma. I think that is changing, though. I’m aware and working.

I'm with you on this one. A lot of us here—partners and ex's of BP-traited people—it's thought we have a common deep feeling that we 'missed something' in 'life' education. When I found out I wasn't alone in this through my readings about emotional health, it was really quite satisfying and comforting, to have this struggle validated this way. Me too, I'm a work-in-progress in this area, and I've found that it's very rewarding (to work our way to our own emotional 're-growing')—so I share the hope with you that you've got a lot of good things to look forward to if you persist in your self-work here.    I hope you'll share more too.

To encourage your sharing, I'll share that it feels really good sometimes when I recognise that a lot of developments of situations happened because of my new emotional strengths, and how I take those strengths to new situations. Sometimes it can be very difficult too, because we can't rely on those old behaviours from which we derived a lot of psychological satisfaction. Then on top of that trying to consciously rely on 'newborn' behaviours.

E.g., I felt excessively angry at a small slight by someone serving me a burrito, per "emotional response that is poorly modulated", then being noticeably over-strict when it came to the dialogue. Looking back, it felt kinda good to correct this person. "Hey this is how you serve someone, so get it done." So that's the psychological satisfaction. But thankfully—I apologised when I saw myself while I was still in that moment. Gosh I tell you it was hard—but it felt good because I felt I was doing the right thing.

Doing emotionally healthy can be hard growth. In a relationship context, pursuing emotionally healthier relationships can be tough. E.g, pursuing emotionally healthy women rather than easy dysfunctional women; or the corollary—giving attention to emotionally healthy men rather than entertaining attention from emotionally unhealthy ones. Growing can be a lot of fun but it can be hard too.


When we ourselves dysregulate, I think we're given a taste of what BP-traited people deal with on a daily basis. Imagine having that 'firing' or 'triggering' happen often, then not having the skills to manage them—and perhaps having our own bodies so accustomed to this that it works against us. They all work against the BP and I think it's easy to see sympathy for their difficulty here. Of course—then this reveals that despite compassion for their struggle, we're still keeping in mind the conscious choice if we really want to have a relationship with them.

[Cromwell]

In terms of "was it me" and going by the defenition of behaviour outwith a normal emotional response.

The answer I can give is that yes, it could have been me, as much as could have been anyone else that triggered it, as much as a memory from the past has also triggered it. my ex had a lot of support, therapists, support workers, and as a result I believe must have learned some sort of coping mechanisms. I feel I was subjected less to the distemper (distemper) being the most noteworthy and dramatic moments, always involved her verbal shouting at random members of the public who she felt had in some way or another - from as much as mere of a glance, had somehow ridiculed or looked down upon her. Her response to this was in a state of full belief, despite when I tried to give her other explanations, as much as physically at times holding her back, removing her from shops.

In contrast, I did get in percentage terms a low amount of direct conflict, but the difference perhaps, I showed her constant indicators of how much I loved her, appreciated her, bolstered her self esteem, as much as I did also keep my mouth shut and reserved my opinions at times where I would normally have been outspoken elsewhere. However, I could leave the house and return to find she had punched holes in the walls, only to be told that it was due to something I had said that she couldnt handle, yet, at the time she appeared completely fine. It was as if she had delayed this rage. Or (most commonly) she would find an outlet by cheating, or sleights, or passive aggressive actions, or mind games. Was she dysregulated at those moments? I have no idea - a question I put out to someone out here who might.

Was it normal? I knew she had BPD eventually, but I was not in a state to research it, especially as I had formed my own opinions that: yes, she had a "firey" temper, she had red hair, highly strung, maybe someone did look at her the wrong way and I never noticed, maybe her exs had treated her awfully and she felt safe to get angry about it with me there to witness it, nope not normal, but I found or built rational reasons...excuses? until it got to the point it became more difficult to do so. It also prompted the question, did she do these things in public because she knew I was there to intervene, would she behave that way alone? were they tests? Then I came to a conclusion, I cant think of a moment in all that time she must ever have been alone, away from having a caretaker role, if not her family than friends who have pinned her down the floor from trying to attack others who in her words "id never let anyone speak to me in that way and not do something about it!" as much as "no one would ever cheat on me first" 

She had to have someone there, or close by, and my going to work or being otherwise unavailable was just incompatible with her level of needs. Im more aware of that now and understand it better than I did at the time.

mental illness: semantics and definitions aside, disorder or illness: put it one way, she was not mentally well, end of, and if I had not been in depressed apathy and fell deeper into it as a result of the r/s, I would have woken up to the fact sooner and moreso, done something about it. Is there a time span on this? She seemed normal, especially at the start of the relationship, at the start of the recycles, and there was mostly the majority of the time i felt if not happy with her, not unduly concerned. But it was a case of punctuated by these moments of dysregulation and not being able to understand them for what they were. A background of substance abuse which I put as causative rather than I do now as aggravating factors.